Scamming runs rampant=loss of players

Solandri - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Roov - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The one thing in the OP that seems to have been overlooked is that, after being scammed the first time his friend submitted a ticket. To which the reply was they found no records of the shop ever existing. Now barring human error when those records were searched, would mean that it is his friend that is running the scam. Not saying it's fact in this case, but we've all seen people cry "scammed" and "****" just to get those extra hand outs from people.

You know, that just proves my point. The goal here isn't to appease victims who QQ, or to make the world a safer place for them. You're not going to be able to figure out every possible type of scam, or even figure out who is being truthful. So any advice to "be careful" is insufficient since you can still fall victim even if you are careful.

Instead, the goal should be to discourage the type of person who would run a scam. Discourage them enough to (if they are a compulsive scammer) move to a different game where scamming is not as harshly enforced. Or if they're normally an honest person, discourage it enough that they stay honest.

If you rely entirely on the "buyer beware" mantra, you end up with a population where nobody trusts anyone else, and acts of goodwill are looked upon with suspicion by the "perpetrator". If you want a society where people are willing to trust each other, buyer beware has to be coupled with some sort of reprimand for the type of behavior (scamming) that you're telling people to beware of.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · September 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you rely entirely on the "buyer beware" mantra, you end up with a population where nobody trusts anyone else, and acts of goodwill are looked upon with suspicion by the "perpetrator". If you want a society where people are willing to trust each other, buyer beware has to be coupled with some sort of reprimand for the type of behavior (scamming) that you're telling people to beware of.

QF damn T

At least someone talks sense. This whole mentality of having zero trust for anyone whatsoever, scamming 100% ok and being a scam victim grounds for extreme flaming, shame and punishment is crazy.

If I was a GM I can absolutely promise you I'd instantly perma-ban every single person caught scamming and put everyone supporting scamming on a severe last chance warning. Sure I'd lose half the player base, but I'd probably attract and maintain a huge number of others.

I'd love to seperate all the scammers into a single server and see how long they last. :P

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Roov - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In no way was I saying the OP was the one scamming as I READ his post and know the story was about his friend. I was saying that perhaps his FRIEND was running a scam on him.

Reading comprehension Red, I know they must teach something similar to this still.

I learned it in the same place I learned to use "preview" before I post, to make sure I really want to say what I said.

Thanks for the added insult, tho.

RedMenace

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · September 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

QF damn T

At least someone talks sense. This whole mentality of having zero trust for anyone whatsoever, scamming 100% ok and being a scam victim grounds for extreme flaming, shame and punishment is crazy.

If I was a GM I can absolutely promise you I'd instantly perma-ban every single person caught scamming and put everyone supporting scamming on a severe last chance warning. Sure I'd lose half the player base, but I'd probably attract and maintain a huge number of others.

I'd love to seperate all the scammers into a single server and see how long they last. :P

Abuse of power is as bad as scamming..... so your solution is as bad as the scammers.

The right thing to have said would had been "I would vigorously investigate any reports of scamming and take the appropriate actions based on the TOS".

Note that what you perceive as a scam may end up not being one, after careful investigation, Also, your job as GM is to enforce the current rules. Before you start perma banning people, you would have to change PW's policies regarding warnings and bans.

Do you think that new players reading that GMs can perma ban on the spot for any reason would be happy to join the game? Authority abuse by GMs, (perceived or real) is one of the causes for people to leave MMOs.....

Zoe - Heavens Tear · September 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Do you think that new players reading that GMs can perma ban on the spot for any reason would be happy to join the game?

Yes, they would. Read the ToS. They already can perma ban on the spot for any reason, or for no reason at all. It says so very clearly. Considering the size of the playerbase, I'd say they don't really care if the GMs can do that.

"Please note that regardless of any notice, PWE reserves the right to discontinue the Service or to terminate or suspend your account at any time in its sole discretion for any reason, or for no reason."

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, they would. Read the ToS. They already can perma ban on the spot for any reason, or for no reason at all. It says so very clearly. Considering the size of the playerbase, I'd say they don't really care if the GMs can do that.

Of course they have that right, according to the TOS, every f2p game has that line in their TOS.
Have you ever played a game where GMs on-the-spot banned people for any reason without investigating? I have... and there were more complains about the GMs than there were about the rampant bots and scammers, needless to say, that game did not last long after they allowed GMs to perma-ban without investigating.

HekateDevine - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Ohkay so now that I'm entirely caught up I figured I'd post a bit myself. When it comes to scamming, some say "Hey. It's been going on for how long now, the GMs don't do anything, people get taken advantage of, and some people get lots of money out of it, including the GMs, so why not just let it go." I say to hell with that. On some level there is an honest need for buyer beware. And some occasions its necessary to listen to those QQing about it. BUT, there are those instances where there's a chance that the one QQing about being scammed is indeed the scammer themselves.

So yeah, alot of people made alot of sense. And some people need to just get away from the keyboard, take a smoke break, and STFU.

You know Lyp (OPer), I'm sorry your friend(s) got scammed. It sucks, hardcore. I know if it happened to me, I'd be POd and I'd flip out over it. (And it has happened.) I'd submit a ticket, realize the GMs don't do much about it. I'd take it into my own hands if I could, let others know the shop name and the situation. But other than that, if it's not a "regular" player, you can't do much but QQ. Hell, move on. I know people put IRL money into the game, but at the same time...you're still playing. You're getting your money's worth. It's a FREE TO PLAY game (meaning no continuous monthly charges).

Other than that, do what you will. Buyer beware for sure. Pay attention to what you're buying. Even if you are in a hurry. We're all human. We make mistakes. And you're SUPPOSED TO get over them too. Try not to be so butt hurt that you end up quitting a game you enjoy over losing some ingame money. Or even IRL money. Hell, honest working people and beyond lose real money ever single day. A few months back I lost twenty bucks. I was POd about it. But the next day I went to work, and after that and so on. Then I got paid and got money. *gasp* So yeah....resources such as these can be made up one way or another. It's not the end of the world. And it's not like the item you were looking for will NEVER be in the game again. (Or maybe it won't be. Oh noes! *Tissues*)

So yeah...I'll end this rant with this reply...

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I learned it in the same place I learned to use "preview" before I post, to make sure I really want to say what I said.

Thanks for the added insult, tho.

RedMenace

I am 100% positive that he (Roov) said everything he meant to say and came off exactly the way he wanted, otherwise he'd have said so. So if you took it so hard that you were insulted, get a bandaid, cover up that hurt, wipe your eyes and go watch Oxygen.

♥

PS. This has been "DUMB'd Down" For your Viewing Pleasure. I actually DO NOT use the term QQ and I kept the banter light and used "nicey nice" terms instead of over exaggerated terms that would make your mind go "Huh?".

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

This is from the Terms of Service on the website.

All PWI has to do is make a *visible* effort to enforce these rules. I'm *sure* they enforce the other rules in the same contract when it's to *their* benefit.

Yes, people should watch what they are buying. Yes, Buyer Beware is true here, as much as any other place on the planet, or on the Internet.

Is there a particular reason why you'd rather let them go ahead and scam anyone they can?

Unless, of course, you're raking in a *mint* doing the same thing.

RedMenace

\Keep fighting the good fight
\\you lost the argument the moment you called me "kid"
\\\my Grandchildren will get a good giggle out of that one
\\\\you might as well go full Godwin right now and finish the set

Response win! woo!

And WOW, 19 pages on a topic that directly addresses the GMs and still no post.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · September 2009

Quinnie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

another classic case of some1 that fails to check the item(s) he/she is buying. always check if its the correct item/price u buy. if u buy something like a blind idiot without checking just cause the shop name says *lunar weapon 10m* then i dont feel sorry u got ripped off. never expect that every1 is a saint.

and just to clear a point it isnt scamming, its just looking for that person that doesnt look furter then the shop name. its a fail of the person him/her self that buys it.

yar you must be dam stupid and ignorant to walk around and be willing to toss 10 million coins into a item without even looking what your buying...In real life would you honestly give 20k to buy a car without even looking what model it is? Common people.... you guys check even when it's small stuff like a hamburger but when it comes to large amounts of cash do your brains shut off?

magic hamster recommends that you leave your brain in the correct on position at all times.

you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

This does not apply since the "victim" was willing to pay a ridiculous amount of coins for an item (yes they obviously wanted the DQ item that badly...) *hopefully you detect the hint of sarcasm in the last bit. But they did agree on the transaction.

Arliana - Dreamweaver · September 2009

you know what? i make a cat shop everynight buying charms and mirages and stuff for 1 coin. whenever ppl sell them to me, i say yay! am i scamming? i dont think so. its more like ppl are being nice to me, or being very very lazy at checking. i like to think ppl are nice to me.

however, in a trade, u have plenty of opportunites to check. unless your friend is a blind person or is unable to read, this is not a scam.

eatwithspoons · September 2009

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Response win! woo!

And WOW, 19 pages on a topic that directly addresses the GMs and still no post.

This has been responded to before. Sending in tickets about scams will make us investigate them. We do not immediately drop a permanent ban on someone in anything other than an extreme case, this is both because people deserve a chance to correct their behavior and because not every case of "scamming" is as clear cut as people describe in this thread.

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear · September 2009

glad you're watching spoony, and thanks

Exitium - Dreamweaver · September 2009

While i understand it really sucks to get scammed like that, the best thing you can probably do is just be extra careful when doing business with anyone, and that goes for rl too... you cant trust ppl when money is involved.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

good lord, read before you spew out unintelligent things.

kanel321 wrote: »

Wow ! so now we get to shop names as being the problem. This is stupid. If I am legitmately selling both Tokens of luck and best tokens of luck and my catsign reads: SELLING TOKENS OF BEST LUCK am I a scammer if someone buys my best tokens and I just have regular ones left.

Like i already stated before there is a diff. with a store running out of goods and not restocking them. Please use common sense. If you see: SELLING TOKENS OF BEST LUCK and you see nothing on sale or normal lucky tokens in the cat shop for 13k or so, Id hope pple would have sense enough to think someone already bought it. What scam we are talking about here are pple who advertise SELLING TOKENS OF BEST LUCK and have normal lucky tokens selling for 5M individually in their own slots.

Second deceptistar your definition on false advertising is wrong , false advertising is when a store advertises a promotion or deal and then when u go in they tell you its out or the price has changed or the deal is no longer available but then they try to get you to purchase the item or a similar item for another price or deal.

False advertising can be applied to many other situations, look it up.

If I run out of Best Tokens and my catshop sign says I have them and you go in and see regular tokens and think they are best luck and then buy them assuming that they are best luck tokens then you are a moron. Those people can not change the name of the item in the game.

read the first quote and some post before you.

the last time i checked you had to drag the item to the purchase area and then click buy to get it . I think what is happening here is people get 'scammed' and then go crying . You never ever buy anything in life or virtual reality without checking first. Oh whats that ? the items look the same ! well guess what they have for the last year now . Get used to it . mouse over and see what you are purchasing and stop screaming scammer because of your ignorance.

Here in case you missed reading "The critics blaming the victim here are basically asking everyone to be perfect in their cat shop purchases 100% of the time. That's an impossible goal to achieve, and basing social policy around the assumption that it can be achieved it is just stupid."

- Quoted- As i said selling something with the intention of hoping the buyer thinks it as another item, can be accounted as fraud--

This is bull, have you ever heard of no name brands, the whole premise of a no name brand is to create something that looks alike but isnt. But this has no relevance in a game. The seller can not cleverly package something to make it something it is not . Hence no scam .People will no doubt say: Your title counts!!! but to them i say prove they never had that item.

You are priceless. Dont you know, no name brands actually advertise themselves AS no name brand and stress how much they are not connected with the real parent company?
I think your not reading enough before you post. That or you havnt seen the actual scams to understand we are talking about lucky tokens being sold for 5M+ not unstocked catshops advertising Best of's and having only 13k tokens

HatedSoul - Sanctuary · September 2009

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok, tell me this, you think you found a great deal, it's advertised as being something, so you buy it, it's not that something. That's not your fault, you paid for what you thought you were going to get because that's what it was stated to be.

wow this how i feel about TW the rules all i red before starting b:cry

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

nvm just realized kanel321 was a (literally) mindless troll >.>

Im so glad its a game. There would be crooks everywhere if kanel and IceJazmins way of thinking ran the law.

"...If a child lives with fairness,
he learns justice."

lets not encourage skepticism based on too much free will

sparqy · September 2009

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

GMs, your neglecting, and in some cases refusing to do anything about the rampant scamming is losing you more players than you're already losing to "the game that shall not be named". These aren't players that are going to the unnameable game, but players who were planning to stay loyal to PWI. Not players who have simply taken advantage of the choice to play for free, but paying customers. Do you have to dedicate a large amount to scammer reduction? No. Just a few hours a day for one employee to pay attention to worldchat and wander around archosaur looking for false advertisement.

The FOURTH of my friends lost in the last 3 weeks to scamming just happened today, I got a good deal from him on a lunar ornament because he thought he found a good deal on a lunar weapon, only to turn around and be scammed with a mystical orb, 38 million coins spent on a dq item that people would be lucky to sell for 5 thousand. This sorta thing isn't a minor scam like the ultimate substance scam that still floats around from time to time for 60k or so, that's 38 million coins, either 100+ dollars spent on the game or several hundred hours of gameplay lost in an instant to a simple oversight that could've been prevented.

PLEASE take some sort of preventative measures to dissallow severe scamming such as this case. I'd prefer the game to be able to stay running rather than losing customers and in turn losing your income.

Yup, I saw that same orb for sale too.

The GMs have vacated all morality when it comes to a fair market place, back during Jolly Jones when people were selling Blemished Citrines for 110k.

The GMs turned a blind eye then, and so more scammers came on the scene.

PWI DOES NOT CARE!!!

sparqy · September 2009

eatwithspoons wrote: »

This has been responded to before. Sending in tickets about scams will make us investigate them. We do not immediately drop a permanent ban on someone in anything other than an extreme case, this is both because people deserve a chance to correct their behavior and because not every case of "scamming" is as clear cut as people describe in this thread.

That is rediculous!!!

PWI has TAUGHT people that scamming is OK, and they wont correct their ways without seeing people banned for it!

Also, its always done on ALTS anyways, because people dont want to tarnish their reputation.

eatwithspoons · September 2009

once constructive input turns into accusations, this becomes a flame and is therefore not allowed. Keep your posts free of accusations please, they are not necessary.

This is your official warning.

I will also quote myself in case some people missed it:

This has been responded to before. Sending in tickets about scams will make us investigate them. We do not immediately drop a permanent ban on someone in anything other than an extreme case, this is both because people deserve a chance to correct their behavior and because not every case of "scamming" is as clear cut as people describe in this thread.

sparqy · September 2009

eatwithspoons wrote: »

once constructive input turns into accusations, this becomes a flame and is therefore not allowed. Keep your posts free of accusations please, they are not necessary.

This is your official warning.

I will also quote myself in case some people missed it:

Is it not appropriate to accuse bad policy and flame it?

I'm not accusing PEOPLE or flaming PEOPLE but the policy that is allowing scammers to go on unimpeded.

I've always been an honorable merchant for a year now.

I've set up a trade guild, so people can buy with confidence.

I've done the job that PWI wont do...

During Jolly Jones I would call out in world chat, to notify people about scammers.

I would sit on their shop so unsuspecting people can't buy as easily.

I've done MY part, to the best of my ability... When will PWI do theirs?

eatwithspoons · September 2009

That's the thing, you're ignoring everything I've wrote because I already explained how things work. I'm not going to start an argument with you, but accusations will not be tolerated, and you have already been warned.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · September 2009

HekateDevine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And some occasions its necessary to listen to those QQing about it.

QQing about being scammed

some people need to just get away from the keyboard, take a smoke break, and STFU.

you can't do much but QQ. Hell, move on.

Try not to be so butt hurt

*gasp*

It's not the end of the world.

Oh noes! *Tissues*

So if you took it so hard that you were insulted, get a bandaid, cover up that hurt, wipe your eyes and go watch Oxygen.

Even the worst Troll-Bot has a larger vocabulary.

Next time, try "Put on your Big-Girl panties and Deal with it!"

I'm sure OP waded thru all these messages, saw yours, and proclaimed "I shall complain no more! I have been shown the light! Time to jump back in and find someone *else* to $#@&^ over!"

Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities. Here's hoping everyone *you* deal with is as kind and thoughtful as you have been here.

RedMenace

\I know it sucks too, but I'm capable of empathy
\\Somehow, piling on the OP doesn't make *me* feel better, or solve anything
\\\Glad to see you were able to throw every "get over it" in the book at this thread, tho
\\\\"QQ" - the internet's answer to "Nyah, Nyah <pbbbbft>"

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

nvm just realized kanel321 was a (literally) mindless troll >.>

Im so glad its a game. There would be crooks everywhere if kanel and IceJazmins way of thinking ran the law.

"...If a child lives with fairness,
he learns justice."

lets not encourage skepticism based on too much free will

My way of thinking actualy is a proven way to reduce crime. It is called personal accountability. If people are held accountable for their actions, than there is a far smaller chance of them turning into crooks.
Long ago, people figured out that community based patroling of neighborhoods was a far more effective way to protect their properties and neighborhood watches were created, which have been proven to have reduced the number of houses that get broken in and crime in general.
Guess what the very first principle of it is? Keep your own house secure.
If you keep your house secure, than you have done your responsible part to prevent crime and can no concentrate on other aspects of safety. Most of the crimes are opportunity crimes, and being a responsible person can reduce those substancialy.

Obviously if you are known to stash lots of money on your house, it will be broken into sooner or later, it will not mater if you lock your door or not, however by doing your part, you make it harder for the crooks to take advantage of you.

This is actualy a real world lesson and the real world is far more brutal than any game scam. Be responsible and vigilant, those two things do not exclude being polite, helpful, hopeful or fair, however not being responsible and vigilant will put undue burdens on everyone around you, since they will have to spend their energy being those things for you.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My way of thinking actualy is a proven way to reduce crime. It is called personal accountability. If people are held accountable for their actions, than there is a far smaller chance of them turning into crooks.
Long ago, people figured out that community based patroling of neighborhoods was a far more effective way to protect their properties and neighborhood watches were created, which have been proven to have reduced the number of houses that get broken in.
Guess what the very first principle of it is? Keep your own house secure.
If you keep your house secure, than you have done your responsible part to prevent crime. Most of the crimes are opportunity crimes, and being a responsible person can reduce those substancialy.

Obviously if you are knows to stash lots of money on your house, it will be broken into sooner or later, it will not mater if you lock your door or not, however by doing your part, you make it harder for the crooks to take advantage of you.

This is actualy a real world lesson and the real world is far more brutal than any game scam. Be responsible and vigilant, those two things do not exclude being polite, helpful, hopeful or fair, however not being responsible and vigilant will put undue burdens on everyone around you, since they will have to spend their energy being those things for you.

Your way of thinking is a big assumption based on a twisted small portion of the actual thing and thinking it applies to all.

If your applying house and security to the catshop scams ingame, basically what your saying is, if you forgot to lock your house and a burgler came in, its ok for the police to respond extremely slow if at all, and we should shame the pple who forgot to lock their house and name them as careless pple who totally deserved everybit of what they got stolen (yes i see alot of posts saying the victims here deserve this for their carelessness).

Its exactly the same thing just it sounds less extreme because its a game.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your way of thinking is a big assumption based on a twisted small portion of the actual thing and thinking it applies to all.

If your applying house and security to the catshop scams ingame, basically what your saying is, if you forgot to lock your house and a burgler came in, its ok for the police to respond extremely slow if at all, and we should shame the pple who forgot to lock their house and name them as careless pple who totally deserved everybit of what they got stolen (yes i see alot of posts saying the victims here deserve this for their carelessness).

Its exactly the same thing just it sounds less extreme because its a game.

No, but the insurance company will refuse to pay for my loses when the police report states that there were no signs of forced entry. It has happened to me before....

Remember the all bit about personal responsibility? What I am saying is IF you forget to lock your house, and people steal from it, you cannot yell at the police for them not doing their job of keeping your house safe. See the difference? I am not saying that it was right for people to steal from you, and I am not saying that the police should shame you. However I am saying since you forgot to lock your house, you cannot yell at the police because they did not prevent the robbery.

HekateDevine - Heavens Tear · September 2009

HekateDevine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PS. This has been "DUMB'd Down" For your Viewing Pleasure. I actually DO NOT use the term QQ and I kept the banter light and used "nicey nice" terms instead of over exaggerated terms that would make your mind go "Huh?".

Once again, I state my case. On to the next, please.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even the worst Troll-Bot has a larger vocabulary.

Next time, try "Put on your Big-Girl panties and Deal with it!"

I'm sure OP waded thru all these messages, saw yours, and proclaimed "I shall complain no more! I have been shown the light! Time to jump back in and find someone *else* to $#@&^ over!"

Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities. Here's hoping everyone *you* deal with is as kind and thoughtful as you have been here.

Troll-Bot? Please, and you flamed me for using game vernacular. Most of what I said does have "larger vocabulary" in it then the dribble you've posted. You just simply chose to pick my post apart as you see fit and use what would give you the oportunity to "light my world on fire". Again, I say PLEASE.

I said my piece to Lypi. There's not much you can say once all that's been posted. Apologies to them and their friends. But no you (Redmenace) just decided to take my post in its entirety and decide "Oh no she's attacking ME! I must defend myself!" GET A LIFE, go take your midol.

And people wonder why I limit my posts on the forums. Its because you always run into Redmenace's like who decide that everything MUST be about them, and take every single little issue as an "capture the flag" battle. Or better yet. Here's a good reference. Tao Vs. Enrage Fight. ^^ Oh sheesh, I went there.

I'm prepared now I got my big girl pants all ready just for you Red. And I bought you a new box of Kleenex, want me to change the channel for you? I hear there's a real tear jerker on tonight. Aw!

(Bring on the Spoons!)

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, but the insurance company will refuse to pay for my loses when the police report states that there were no signs of forced entry. It has happened to me before.... (yeah and ingame pple are laughing at the victims to suck it up, its their fault. Feels pretty bad if your neighbors and pple walking past told you that dont it?)

Remember the all bit about personal responsibility? What I am saying is IF you forget to lock your house, and people steal from it, you cannot yell at the police for them not doing their job of keeping your house safe. See the difference? I am not saying that it was right for people to steal from you, and I am not saying that the police should shame you. However I am saying since you forgot to lock your house, you cannot yell at the police because they did not prevent the robbery.

You contradict yourself suddenly when RL comes into place.

The pple shaming you arent gonna be the police cause they are basically the role of GMs. The burgler is the 'scammer' and you/house is the buyer. The ones shaming you would be the neighbors and other folk, just like posters on the forum.

I have never heard a case where a GM shamed a victim, nor a victim screamed at a GM to PREVENT themselves a scam. QQs yes i have seen.

Remember the all bit about personal responsibility?
Everyone has it. But just because you didnt or failed to pitch in your half, doesn't make a justified burglery. It just makes loopholes for 3rd parties. (like that insurance company)

cyborgtemplar · September 2009

simple thing to say, it's an old saying to be precise. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. and the scams can be prevented easily by GM's but the've probably got other things to do as well. true one walk down west arch would probably ban a few scammers but then more would just pop up elsewhere.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · September 2009

None of what I have posted excuses the burgler, however it does highlight the responsibility of the other party involved. Just try to understand this part. Just because it was your fault for not locking the door, it does not excuse the robber for coming into your house and take stuff away. They are two different things, although related since one facilitated the other, therefore you cannot ignore either of them, if you are trying to find a solution for the problem.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Read posts 199 and 201 on this very thread..... they even got one of the rare public warnings from a GM. (trolls probably)

I apologize on the aparent contradiction. I must have missread when you said police response is slow and shame the victim. I included the police in with the group that was shaming the burglery victim. Using you explanation, it would not change much, it would feel bad for the people that live in the same street to put you down or make fun of you, however, the only way they would know you forgot to lock the door would be for you to tell them, and if they are your friends, I hope they would not sugar coat it either and make you feel like you did nothing wrong.....

None of what I have posted excuses the burgler, however it does highlight the responsibility of the other party involved. Just try to understand this part. Just because it was your fault for not locking the door, it does not excuse the robber for coming into your house and take stuff away. They are two different things, although related since one facilitated the other.

where is the difference. Basicaly on this thread pple get scammed(robbed of house) because they did not do their part to check the price(lock the doors), and when a thread pops up half the posters pity the victim and ask the scammers be dealt with (neighbors ask the police to patrol more), and half the posters flame the victims for forgetting to double check prices (neighbors laugh at you saying you get your just desserts for being careless)

The words in red are the parts this thread is getting heated up in. Altho the examples are diff. the concepts are the same and it shows really how pple are acting.

Scamming runs rampant=loss of players

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