Scamming runs rampant=loss of players

sefis

Honestly, I've made mistakes myself, losing a zero or two when in a rush (usually I don't mind so long as the person is using the item and not just turning around and selling the item to an npc). I make stuff to help people and I don't care about the profit (I'd make more selling the materials).

What is my reward? Seeing other players enjoy the game for what a game should do-reduce frustration and anger.

However, when it comes to seeing scammers and thieves, I do get really annoyed as they do exactly the opposite of what I do. In another game, I gave away 4m to a person who got scammed. Same game, gave away about 6m. Why? I wanted them to still be able to enjoy the game. Often, I'll walk into a scam willingly with the intent to report it so that other people don't fall for it. (BTW, it takes about a week to make 1m in that game at about level 100. It isn't until about level 300-500 that 1m per day is reasonable).

I do say that players do need to stop flaming the victims and the people who want to help them because honestly, what goes around comes around. After all, when you make a mistake that one day and you want help, you wouldn't want everyone to look at you and go, "Weren't you that kid that was making fun of the victims? Serves you right." Or would you?

Heilios - Sanctuary

SPOON!!!
can i be ur fork ._.?
or knife ._.?
or anything else that matches with a spoon ._.

i like ur style
woot woot hurray for spoon

(to keep it relevant: BOOOO scammers )

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

GMs, your neglecting, and in some cases refusing to do anything about the rampant scamming is losing you more players than you're already losing to "the game that shall not be named". These aren't players that are going to the unnameable game, but players who were planning to stay loyal to PWI. Not players who have simply taken advantage of the choice to play for free, but paying customers. Do you have to dedicate a large amount to scammer reduction? No. Just a few hours a day for one employee to pay attention to worldchat and wander around archosaur looking for false advertisement.

The FOURTH of my friends lost in the last 3 weeks to scamming just happened today, I got a good deal from him on a lunar ornament because he thought he found a good deal on a lunar weapon, only to turn around and be scammed with a mystical orb, 38 million coins spent on a dq item that people would be lucky to sell for 5 thousand. This sorta thing isn't a minor scam like the ultimate substance scam that still floats around from time to time for 60k or so, that's 38 million coins, either 100+ dollars spent on the game or several hundred hours of gameplay lost in an instant to a simple oversight that could've been prevented.

PLEASE take some sort of preventative measures to dissallow severe scamming such as this case. I'd prefer the game to be able to stay running rather than losing customers and in turn losing your income.

Translation: I need GM's to babysit me and my friends so we don't do something stupid and lose lots of gold/coins. YELP ME! Or I leave to "game that shall not be mentioned" where there certainly won't ever possibly be people trying to scam one another. b:shocked

Sorry, but in the real world, GM's and developers don't have time to make sure no one does anything stupid with their coins. Up to you and you alone. Pay some bloody attention. Scammers exist everywhere, even in this fad meme-like utopia "game that shall not be mentioned".

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Translation: I need GM's to babysit me and my friends so we don't do something stupid and lose lots of gold/coins. YELP ME! Or I leave to "game that shall not be mentioned" where there certainly won't ever possibly be people trying to scam one another. b:shocked

Sorry, but in the real world, GM's and developers don't have time to make sure no one does anything stupid with their coins. Up to you and you alone. Pay some bloody attention. Scammers exist everywhere, even in this fad meme-like utopia "game that shall not be mentioned".

This ^^

And again...he is (probably) over lvl90+ and got scammed twice. Even at lvl22 (got to Arch) i did realise that this game has scammers. But then YES i would have "closed my door" after getting robbed first time...and even got myself a "shotgun and bazooka" if i had 38mil in my "villa". So stop babbling about robbers and houses. We all can fall for scammers, but then i dont make anyone else responsible for my failor and naivity and especialy not the "police", cause i bought a "car which was obviously a total loss tho the carseller promised something else".

To buy an item for 38mil and not to check it before buying = FAIL OF COMMON SENCE

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This ^^

And again...he is (probably) over lvl90+ and got scammed twice. Even at lvl22 (got to Arch) i did realise that this game has scammers. But then YES i would have "closed my door" after getting robbed first time...and even got myself a "shotgun and bazooka" if i had 38mil in my "villa". So stop babbling about robbers and houses. We all can fall for scammers, but then i dont make anyone else responsible for my failor and naivity and especialy not the "police", cause i bought a "car which was obviously a total loss tho the carseller promised something else".

To buy an item for 38mil and not to check it before buying = FAIL OF COMMON SENCE

Yus U FAILZ. How bout you promise never to call the police or emergency and RELY on them IF to fix your failz. (including health deterioration due to your fail management of your body) What you say is the same thing:
CHECK and be CAREFUL

yet if not applied ingame, they are flamed.
if not applied out of game, they are taken care of.

and why is this? The morals stand the same, the actions are the same, real pple do this, yet the fact that we cannot touch, hear, smell, see them live, makes the situation less important?

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yus U FAILZ. How bout you promise never to call the police or emergency and RELY on them IF to fix your failz. (including health deterioration due to your fail management of your body) What you say is the same thing:
CHECK and be CAREFUL

yet if not applied ingame, they are flamed.
if not applied out of game, they are taken care of.

and why is this? The morals stand the same, the actions are the same, real pple do this, yet the fact that we cannot touch, hear, smell, see them live, makes the situation less important?

I can use my own brain and i m old enough to "close my door". Cause i know that there are bad guys around and want my money.

And for gods sake after seeing how PWI works i know every well who to rely on and who not. Its obvious why i dont sent every 30min a ticket to GMs to report a scammer. If you still believe that there is any chance to improve the situation after reporting GMs every ****, then good luck. Ever heard of alts? Of fake chars? No? I can intrduce you 5. I never gonna report them to GMs cause its better for me to KNOW and SEE them and warn my friends, then wandering around blind and with pink glasses on, hoping GMs would get my stuff back if i ever fall for scammer.

For me it is fail in common sence not to check an item for 38mil even if you have never been scammed before.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can use my own brain and i m old enough to "close my door". Cause i know that there are bad guys around and want my money.

And for gods sake after seeing how PWI works i know every well who to rely on and who not. Its obvious why i dont sent every 30min a ticket to GMs to report a scammer. If you still believe that there is any chance to improve the situation after reporting GMs every ****, then good luck. Ever heard of alts? Of fake chars? No? I can intrduce you 5. I never gonna report them to GMs cause its better for me to KNOW and SEE them and warn my friends, then wandering around blind and with pink glasses on, hoping GMs would get my stuff back if i ever fall for scammer.

transactions are recorded. Whatever gave you the whopping idea that alts are an exception. If thers an alt thats doin some serious scamming that the GMs deem worth taking action for, you bet theyll get their butt wupped, alt or not.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

transactions are recorded. Whatever gave you the whopping idea that alts are an exception. If thers an alt thats doin some serious scamming that the GMs deem worth taking action for, you bet theyll get their butt wupped, alt or not.

HOW? Bann IP? Can you prove that a player who uses this comp is a scammer? 90% of us know how to change an IP-Adress or manipulate it. 50% have silblings. 10% are probably playing PWI as well.
If you think it can be solved that easily, i wonder why we still hear any QQ about scammers.

kanel321

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

transactions are recorded. Whatever gave you the whopping idea that alts are an exception. If thers an alt thats doin some serious scamming that the GMs deem worth taking action for, you bet theyll get their butt wupped, alt or not.

omg! wow i keep reading what your saying and im just laughing. let me make this perfectly clear :

THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE!!! THIS IS A GAME !!!

there now please say this multiple times , open the window , smell some air and take in reality. You make all these cops and robbers garbage up but it has no relevance. In real life there is some morality code. A way of doing good business and a way of doing shady business. There is no such code in a game. You can talk about a house and a robbers and locks but it means nothing. Look you know what we have ingame - its called terms of service. Has PWE said that if you sell regular tokens for 5 mil that they are gonna call you a scammer and then ban you . If so then please show me that. Right they have not, they said they will investigate but they are not gonna go and assume ppl are scamming just because they are selling an item at 5 mil coins. You seem to think that your some lifestyle reality coach here to enforce real life expectations on people in an online world. Lame. I feel bad for people who loose their cash but come on check for 30 seconds on what you are buying. You talk about getting them getting there butt wupped. LOL! c'mon . You think GM's are gonna go through hundreds of tickets on ppl saying the spent 5 mil for a regular token and then want their money back. Use some sense.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

kanel321 wrote: »

omg! wow i keep reading what your saying and im just laughing. let me make this perfectly clear :

THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE!!! THIS IS A GAME !!!

there now please say this multiple times , open the window , smell some air and take in reality.

I love when people come in here and think that if they just slap someone hard enough their miserable view of the world will sink into everyone else's cranium.

You make all these cops and robbers garbage up but it has no relevance. In real life there is some morality code. A way of doing good business and a way of doing shady business. There is no such code in a game.

You are all the same humans in *this* game as you are in the real world. The only difference *here*, is that there is very little chance of the person you scam actually finding you and beating the living **** out of you.

Is this the only reason you don't scam people in RL? Because they might kick your behind? And now that you have been relieved of the possibility of bodily harm - well, it's open farkin' season on newbies!

You can talk about a house and a robbers and locks but it means nothing. Look you know what we have ingame - its called terms of service.

The PWI Terms of Service say "No Scamming". But the penalties are reasonably non-existent, because PWI doesn't want to be sued into the stone age by some kid's Daddy for ruining his precious snowflakes Gaming Experience. If there were no money changing hands between player and PWI (if this was all ad-supported) I guarantee you they would be kicking people left and right for such violations to leep the game as friendly as possible , to keep those ad-viewing eyes glued to the screen, Daddy be damned.

Has PWE said that if you sell regular tokens for 5 mil that they are gonna call you a scammer and then ban you . If so then please show me that. Right they have not, they said they will investigate but they are not gonna go and assume ppl are scamming just because they are selling an item at 5 mil coins. You seem to think that your some lifestyle reality coach here to enforce real life expectations on people in an online world. Lame. I feel bad for people who loose their cash but come on check for 30 seconds on what you are buying. You talk about getting them getting there butt wupped. LOL! c'mon . You think GM's are gonna go through hundreds of tickets on ppl saying the spent 5 mil for a regular token and then want their money back. Use some sense.

Obviously this is the limit of what PWI will do to discourage this behavior.

And obviously you have no problem with it, or you'd be complaining too. I can only assume you think this little spate of anarchy developing here is just Commerce, and Let the Buyer beware is more than sufficient.

I think that the "morality code" you mentioned in Real Life can just as easily be applied here *if people demanded it from each other*, instead of just pointing, laughing, and then going back to their little pile of cash and giggling like Scrooge McDuck.

Like I said, Stay Classy.

RedMenace

Malego - Heavens Tear

Your little "Its a game" excuse means nothing when it comes to mmos. Why is that you ask? The other players are real people, that is why.

Do not do anything to someone that you would not want to have them do to you.

kanel321

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Obviously this is the limit of what PWI will do to discourage this behavior.

And obviously you have no problem with it, or you'd be complaining too. I can only assume you think this little spate of anarchy developing here is just Commerce, and Let the Buyer beware is more than sufficient.

I think that the "morality code" you mentioned in Real Life can just as easily be applied here *if people demanded it from each other*, instead of just pointing, laughing, and then going back to their little pile of cash and giggling like Scrooge McDuck.

Like I said, Stay Classy.

RedMenace

I agree, I dont like what people are doing one bit , but 23 pages of thread are not going to do anything unless PWE says : if you sell regular token for 5 mil you can be banned. Sure people should follow some sort of morality in online MMOs I agree , but some will not unless forced to .

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Malego - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Your little "Its a game" excuse means nothing when it comes to mmos. Why is that you ask? The other players are real people, that is why.

Do not do anything to someone that you would not want to have them do to you.

You can lecture at the little troll till you drop dead. Unfortunately no words will make someone as despicable & lacking in any moral character as that little weasel see the light. Best thing to do is ignore the cretin & hope he burrows back into his hole.

Ty - Heavens Tear

Some scammers have a conscience at least.
Last night I saw in general chat 'Selling Lunar Insignia- weapon 29mil' so I clicked follow and found the shop. Of course it was a mystical orb. I proceeded to spam the stop message box and after a minute I got a whisper, 'At least I'm not charging 35mil like the other guy'.
Good to see competition is driving down prices.

kanel321

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can lecture at the little troll till you drop dead. Unfortunately no words will make someone as despicable & lacking in any moral character as that little weasel see the light. Best thing to do is ignore the cretin & hope he burrows back into his hole.

fail, I do not side with the scammers one bit , I just realize that it has to be clear cut for this to stop by PWE. They need to make it clear that they can be banned and then this will stop . Untill that occurs this will continue. Read next time.

Cy_clone - Heavens Tear

Ty - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Some scammers have a conscience at least.
Last night I saw in general chat 'Selling Lunar Insignia- weapon 29mil' so I clicked follow and found the shop. Of course it was a mystical orb. I proceeded to spam the stop message box and after a minute I got a whisper, 'At least I'm not charging 35mil like the other guy'.
Good to see competition is driving down prices.

This made me lol a little b:chuckle

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

kanel321 wrote: »

fail, I do not side with the scammers one bit , I just realize that it has to be clear cut for this to stop by PWE. They need to make it clear that they can be banned and then this will stop . Untill that occurs this will continue. Read next time.

Just because there's many shades of gray, doesnt mean you should completely ignore the obvious black. There are many shades between insanity & sanity, but the obvious whack jobs still get put into funny farms. You saying that the clear & obvious scammers should be allowed to continue, because you dont know where to draw the line, IS siding with the scammers. You need to look at your own moral code a bit better.

kanel321

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just because there's many shades of gray, doesnt mean you should completely ignore the obvious black. There are many shades between insanity & sanity, but the obvious whack jobs still get put into funny farms. You saying that the clear & obvious scammers should be allowed to continue, because you dont know where to draw the line, IS siding with the scammers. You need to look at your own moral code a bit better.

no I know, we all know that there are scammers out there. Some are quite obvious, but what is being done? We have 23 pages so far and people are pointing this big moral finger and wagging it in the scammers direction and saying : How could you !!??!! Look most will never read this forum and the ones that do are not all of a sudden gonna start sob typing an apology because the feel the moral void they caused. This thread could be a big petition to PWE to make a change but it has become a vendetta against scammers. They do not feel like they have done nothing wrong because there has been no punishment. I think what they are doing is wrong but a bunch of threads regarding real life examples on morals means nothing because they have none. Yes there are real people behind the avatars but they have nothing to check their behaviour in this game. Sure scamming is not allowed but it will take PWE saying dont price those tokens at that price to change anything. All the GM's are getting out of this post are poor examples of cars and cops and robbers as examples and that will for sure not accomplish anything.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Just because some of us saying that we dont believe in any improvement and any changes when it comes to scammer you say those people support all scammers. Dont pervert the facts please.

Since some of us think it would change anything at all to report every scammer:

If GMs spend 90% of the time to read and research your tickets and bannish people from server, would you stop to check every item you buy from catshops? What makes you sure that some kid don't run to GM and suspect you doing scamming cause you wrote on your catshop "99cent"?
Well i would rather have bugs fixed then let GMs solve a problem which we CAN actualy avoid with a simple mouse-hover.

Lightaine - Dreamweaver

Ty - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Some scammers have a conscience at least.
Last night I saw in general chat 'Selling Lunar Insignia- weapon 29mil' so I clicked follow and found the shop. Of course it was a mystical orb. I proceeded to spam the stop message box and after a minute I got a whisper, 'At least I'm not charging 35mil like the other guy'.
Good to see competition is driving down prices.

Win.
10char

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Lets face it. GM's can't instantly perma ban scammers simply because they'd lose about half their player base...

You can see it from this thread. At least 50% of people would scam you for everything you have if given the slightest chance, without any scrap of conscience or remorse.

They're the majority here. The world is rules by asses and despicable morons.

Shintohiro - Sanctuary

As long as PW allows you to set 99mil the price on DQ in your cat shop you have the right to do it.
As long PW let's you write whatever you want on your cat shop, you have the right to do it.

If I see a Cat Shop named garage sale then what? Do i have to think that guy sells his used tires and old puzzles in his cat shop?
If I see a Dew Orb with 99mil price tag on it, do I have to buy it?
I never heard of PW forcing anyone to buy things they don't want or consider the price is too high.

If you really value ur money..that "you worked hard for" then take 2 seconds of your time and check the item + price you want to buy.
If you don't then just go to west arch, find the nearest cat shop, buy everything he has without looking, then go to the next and repeat "buy all" procedure and so on until you run out of money.

No PW rules against:
-setting the price you want for any tradable item in game.
-writing whatever you want on your cat shop (except bad language)
-advertising anything ingame even if it's true or false.

Also PW can't ban people for selling at 5000% inflated prices or for false advertising cuz:
(giving you 2 real reasons I know)
1. I put things for sale in AH many times at prices so high so nobody buys them (reason: I don't have space in inv, I need the items for a later date, if nobody buys in AH they will appear in mail after auction is over => extra storing space)
2. I once put a luck token for 4.9 mil on sale and advertised as best luck token. Was a unwilling error. After I was told (by a friend that looked at the cat shop) i switched with the real best luck token. I really wasn't careful and put the other on sale by mistake, and not sure till this day if i would have given the money back if someone actually bought it before my friend told me. Maybe, maybe not, probably depends on how the other person would have behaved.

Yes, some do it on purpose, but how do you know who those are? Some people don't speak english and play, they saw it sold for 4.5 mil or w/e and do the same.

I think people just want it all easy. Set rules so we don't have to bother to check what we are buying. It's sooooo hard. My hand hurts every time i have to move my mouse to check a item. Oooouch, PW should pay for my arm surgery cuz they don't have rules that allow me not to move the mouse. OMG!

Scammers in real life suck.
But...
in game if you find it that hard to move the mouse 2 sec and read another 5 seconds the info on the merchandise and value ur money so little then You deserve it!
If I ever get scammed will be my own damn fault and would be ashamed to even ask the scammer for my money back let alone complain on the forums about it (Yes i know it wasn't the OP that got scammed but her friend) but still. If he is too lazy to complain himself why bother? Oh wait, complaining requires tipyng, and he was lazy to just move mouse and read 5 words....

I rest my case.

PS: And low iq people that only know how to flame others and don't bring arguments to their statements are worse than scammers.
See the one below me, he's a good enough example.
There, now I rest my case!

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Shintohiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

I rest my case.

Does this mean you're done telling us how the world really works?

Gawd, I hope so.

RedMenace
\actually *prefer* scammers to self-righteous weasels
\\Bring on the Larceny

Malego - Heavens Tear

I say it again. Would you want all these players to scam you? No? So don't scam them.

Shintohiro - Sanctuary

People, OMG! It requires 2 people to scam.
1. The scammer
2. The buyer

So please, go ahead and scam me! There, hope everyone is happy!

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Shintohiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

PS: And low iq people that only know how to flame others and don't bring arguments to their statements are worse than scammers.
See the one below me, he's a good enough example.
There, now I rest my case!

I've been offering solutions and ways to deal with the problem, and suggestions to PWI.

You said you were done.

YOU LIE!

I'm also not shy about pointing our self-righteous clowns who drop in here and scream "GET OVER IT" without any constructive ideas.

You deserve a smiley!
b:pleased

RedMenace

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've been offering solutions and ways to deal with the problem, and suggestions to PWI.

You said you were done.

YOU LIE!

I'm also not shy about pointing our self-righteous clowns who drop in here and scream "GET OVER IT" without any constructive ideas.

You deserve a smiley!
b:pleased

RedMenace

Guys---its so out of topic.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

So um, group hug?!

And I think I mentioned hangings....or wait....firing squads yeah...guns are going to be released right?!

I think that would solve all the scamming problems. Its getting tiring. The other day I almost bought shell powder for 180k a piece. The catshop was advertising it as fb 69 wine. ugh...

RawVeno - Sanctuary

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So um, group hug?!

And I think I mentioned hangings....or wait....firing squads yeah...guns are going to be released right?!

I think that would solve all the scamming problems. Its getting tiring. The other day I almost bought shell powder for 180k a piece. The catshop was advertising it as fb 69 wine. ugh...

maybe the wine was sold out and that's all that was left?

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

lol, no. Shell powder isn't worth 180k. And his shop was loaded with it. He didn't have it stacked it was in singles. And I've noticed he does it regularly.