Scamming runs rampant=loss of players

Cenminator - Dreamweaver

Zetarana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why not ban CatShops, get rid of them...

Players will still be able to trade, Item for Coin, or Item for Item.

All transactions will now go through the Auction House...
The AH already pre-fills the info in so there can be no misleading or typos to prey on the gullible or tired.

This will also cut down on the Lagggggggg in Archo as well.

Add a few more Auction House NPCs or, even better, make it like the Cash Shop, opens with a key combo like alt-O does for the CashShop.

End to Scammers, End to most of the Lag... Win Win, big time...

OMG its a good idea, quick kill it before it gets away

RawVeno - Sanctuary

Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OMG its a good idea, quick kill it before it gets away

they'll get rid of em.. by making them a CS item that lasts 24hrs costing 1-5 gold each.

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands

Zetarana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why not ban CatShops, get rid of them...

Players will still be able to trade, Item for Coin, or Item for Item.

All transactions will now go through the Auction House...
The AH already pre-fills the info in so there can be no misleading or typos to prey on the gullible or tired.

This will also cut down on the Lagggggggg in Archo as well.

Add a few more Auction House NPCs or, even better, make it like the Cash Shop, opens with a key combo like alt-O does for the CashShop.

End to Scammers, End to most of the Lag... Win Win, big time...

why not ban the ip address instead

Fellinia - Dreamweaver

Pure auction house works, it was done in ArchLord and it was wonderful. The system was accessible from anywhere in the game world as well, instead of being pigeonholed on npcs and causing mobs of people to gather around them. You could post stuff to sell in the field, making it so you didn't have to return to town as often.

The system is almost scam proof, and it makes competition level and fair by being 100% price based instead of relying on staying connected, having a good/constant location, spamming the hell out of local/area/world chat, etc.

Or like some other games have done, make a shared instance for vending. Sort of carbon copy of Arch you can't leave and has only a bank npc and an npc to get you back to the real game.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

RawVeno - Sanctuary wrote: »

see kid, that's the real issue, this is only an issue for those too ignorant and in too big of a hurry to make a l33t deal to check an item before they buy. same people that spill coffee on themselves and sue mcdonalds for selling them hot coffee.

/puts on kid gloves and bubble wraps the kiddies so they don't get hurt and hope they never leave the safety of moms basement.

you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

This is from the Terms of Service on the website.

All PWI has to do is make a *visible* effort to enforce these rules. I'm *sure* they enforce the other rules in the same contract when it's to *their* benefit.

Yes, people should watch what they are buying. Yes, Buyer Beware is true here, as much as any other place on the planet, or on the Internet.

Is there a particular reason why you'd rather let them go ahead and scam anyone they can?

Unless, of course, you're raking in a *mint* doing the same thing.

RedMenace

\Keep fighting the good fight
\\you lost the argument the moment you called me "kid"
\\\my Grandchildren will get a good giggle out of that one
\\\\you might as well go full Godwin right now and finish the set

Ricecake - Heavens Tear

I havent been scammed yet or anything but I did come really close.

I will say that really shouldve had 2 very different names for the different tokens, cuz you overlook 1 word and its a completely different token, if id had the money I wouldve lost it .

I saw what was being advertised as Token of Best Luck, for 3.2mil and I was soooooo close to getting it, when I was told to re-read the name and sure enough it was a scammer .b:shocked

AinaMizuako - Sanctuary

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

My friend got scammed (the ol' Shabby advertised as Blemished) and I learned from that. I know when to mouse hover, I do it for kicks at the shops advertising Subs and they're actually Life Powders, usually just tell the people around that they're not subs and leave.

If you get scammed, LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES. Just mouse-over the god damn thing, don't buy everything without checking it out first.

I agree that it's not a very good thing to do, and it is against the TOS (though I have yet to see any GM action against it) but if you're just going to be an idiot and expect everything to be all honest and lovely, and buying without seeing for sure what it is, especially after you get scammed the first time, you're severely lacking in common sense.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

daemonnnn wrote: »

you sir. are ****..scamming is something you have to live with yes,but to scam is not being smart..is not living outside the game,having nothing better to do then to ruin other peoples fun just cause you want to be the best on A CRAPPY F2P GAME..you are fail my friend,for you suck at life and the only way you can be happy is by making others miserable...glad not all of PWI thinks like you

Did you not notice the sarcastic tone of his voice when he posted?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

This is from the Terms of Service on the website.

All PWI has to do is make a *visible* effort to enforce these rules. I'm *sure* they enforce the other rules in the same contract when it's to *their* benefit.

Yes, people should watch what they are buying. Yes, Buyer Beware is true here, as much as any other place on the planet, or on the Internet.

Is there a particular reason why you'd rather let them go ahead and scam anyone they can?

Unless, of course, you're raking in a *mint* doing the same thing.

RedMenace

\Keep fighting the good fight
\\you lost the argument the moment you called me "kid"
\\\my Grandchildren will get a good giggle out of that one
\\\\you might as well go full Godwin right now and finish the set

Although I agree with what you are saying, the problem is that overpricing something is not the same as scamming..... In order to scam, they would have to be able to change the mouse-over description of the item, however, I am sure they are not doing that, they are just overpricing items that people want. And lets not forget that you have to click twice to accept a trade or to buy from a catshop (in the last case, you also have to drag the item).

Part of this problem could be resolved by having different icons for all the items (the case of orbs and subs), however, as we can see with the tokens, people still complain about it, even though both items have different icons.

There is no way PWE should do anything about someone selling a lucky token for 4million, since the icons are different than the ones for the best luck. In this case, and unlike the sub/orb, there is really, absolutely no excuse for the buyer to pay millions than claim he was scammed.

RawVeno - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

This is from the Terms of Service on the website.

All PWI has to do is make a *visible* effort to enforce these rules. I'm *sure* they enforce the other rules in the same contract when it's to *their* benefit.

Yes, people should watch what they are buying. Yes, Buyer Beware is true here, as much as any other place on the planet, or on the Internet.

Is there a particular reason why you'd rather let them go ahead and scam anyone they can?

Unless, of course, you're raking in a *mint* doing the same thing.

RedMenace

\Keep fighting the good fight
\\you lost the argument the moment you called me "kid"
\\\my Grandchildren will get a good giggle out of that one
\\\\you might as well go full Godwin right now and finish the set

Are you really being cheated, defrauded or scammed when you, the buyer has every opportunity to not make the transaction, including clicking 2 buttons to agree to the deal?

\Keep fighting for the children, because god forbid they learn to pay attention.
\\You lost the argument when you acted like a child. and decided to talk to me like i'm one of your grandkids.
let me refresh your memory

"<pats gently on head, trying to avoid soft-spot>

RedMenace

\gives RawVeno a lollipop
\\good job ridiculing an actual issue
\\\not really, that was mind-numbingly lame
\\\\put your Safety Helmet back on"

\\\full godwin? what, compare people that get "scammed" to the holocaust?

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

RawVeno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are you really being cheated, defrauded or scammed when you, the buyer has every opportunity to not make the transaction, including clicking 2 buttons to agree to the deal?

\Keep fighting for the children, because god forbid they learn to pay attention.
\\You lost the argument when you acted like a child. and decided to talk to me like i'm one of your grandkids.
let me refresh your memory


\\\full godwin? what, compare people that get "scammed" to the holocaust?

Wow. You're really projecting.

"Full Godwin" was me referring to you grasping at any straw to make your point. I at no point referred, nor attempted to refer, to the holocaust.

Climbing all up the the OP's face doesn't solve anything. I believe the OP (or the OP's friend) should have been more aware of what they were doing, but I also believe because of the terms of service PWI makes us sign that they should hold up their end of the bargain - take down scammers.

These things are *both* possible - reminding people to watch what they are doing (without whizzing in their cornflakes would be a good start) and making a serious effort to expel the miserable bastages that prey on others.

I'd like to see PWI announce when people are banned/warned from the server for these things. I realize that for Legal reasons they won't reveal usernames of those who get into trouble, but they sure could say "23 people were kicked this week for scamming in catshops - 12 were kicked for 1 week for obscenities in WC".

Then maybe people might actually see that something is being done, and some deterrence might result.

But I guess that doesn't feel as good as pointing and laughing.

RedMenace
\stay classy

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Scammers who know their scamming I personally think should pay a price.

Altho the buyers should also always look before they buy, blaming the buyer for something, altho ingame, applies to a word that is publicly known as a federal crime, is wrong.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Scammers who know their scamming I personally think should pay a price.

Altho the buyers should also always look before they buy, blaming the buyer for something, altho ingame, applies to a word that is publicly known as a federal crime, is wrong.

Overpricing an item is not a crime. Buying an overpriced item, even though it should be a crime, is not a crime either.
Since there is no way for the catshop to miss-represent the item itself (shop title does not count), there is no scamming.
For the longest time, the "scam" of the day was the subs/orbs and the stones. Everyone agreed that one of the biggest problems was that the items shared the same icon. However, as you can see, even in this thread, people are now complaining about overpriced token. Please note that the 2 token, luck and best luck, have different icons, however, people are still buying the wrong ones and complaining.

At some point people need to accept responsibility for their actions. What some people could use as an excuse on the sub "scam", the icons being the same, can no longer be used in the case of the tokens, however, people are still acusing others of scamming when they try to sell a token of luck for 4million, when the icons are not the same, and the description is also not the same.

Kazue - Heavens Tear

I agree that the scams is getting out of hand with the event ****. But at the same time I can picture the seller bursting out of his chair and doing his happy dance in the middle of the room.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree that the scams is getting out of hand with the event ****. But at the same time I can picture the seller bursting out of his chair and doing his happy dance in the middle of the room.

It would be no different than you walking by and seeing a lunar weapon +8 on the ground that someone forgot to bind/have angels while in pvp mode on a pve server.....

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree that the scams is getting out of hand with the event ****. But at the same time I can picture the seller bursting out of his chair and doing his happy dance in the middle of the room.

In the middle of his mothers basement, all on his own you mean. Then he can go online to his fake friends who in reality don't even like him at all and are using him, and brag about the item he scammed off some poor "nub" to draw a little more of that attention he craves so much...

turtlewax

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since there is no way for the catshop to miss-represent the item itself

Obviously there are ways, or scamming would not be possible. b:bye

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

turtlewax wrote: »

Obviously there are ways, or scamming would not be possible. b:bye

Can you explain how the seller can change the description of the item itself on the mouse-over, in the cases where the icons are the same and provided by PWE?

Also, how do you apply the "scamming" when the icons are different and the name is different? People in this very thread have complain about scamming and the tokens, which have different names and icons....

Not saying what they are doing is proper, nice and correct, however, there is a difference between hacking the items so it looks like something it is not, until you buy it, and just having the buyer believe the item is something else and buying it anyway, even though all the information about the identity of the item is easely available with a mouse-over.

turtlewax

I just explained it - and people have given plenty of examples. The facts are lying on the streets of Archosaur and reported here, scams happen. For the scams to work there must be some deception, some way by which the scammer got the victim to believe he was buying something for the right price.

There are Best Luck Tokens and (the) best Luck Tokens ... I don't think PW did a very good job with these names, it would have been better if they had chosen these names a bit more unique.

Are you still suggesting scamming is not the right word for scamming?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

turtlewax wrote: »

I just explained it - and people have given plenty of examples. The facts are lying on the streets of Archosaur and reported here, scams happen. For the scams to work there must be some deception, some way by which the scammer got the victim to believe he was buying something for the right price.

There are Best Luck Tokens and (the) best Luck Tokens ... I don't think PW did a very good job with these names, it would have been better if they had chosen these names a bit more unique.

Are you still suggesting scamming is not the right word for scamming?

Can you please explain how the scammer changed the mouse-over of the item they were selling so they could fool the buyer? This really is where it all boils down to. Did the seller alter the item (name and icon) to pass it as something else?

This is not about if what they are doing is moraly wrong or not, this is about the fact that pretty much most of the so called scammers are not altering any of the items. And in the case of the tokens, even the icons are different in addition to the descriptions and mouse-overs. Is selling an overpriced regular token a scam? Is it moraly wrong to do what they are doing? They know that people do not read what they buy (if they did not, they can read the forums and see people admitting they do not read what they buy), so they overcharge.
I do not think it is a scam, and that the word is being used incorrectly, specialy not in the case of the tokens, since even the icons are different.
I think what they are doing is moraly wrong, since they are taking advantage of people's trust, however, morality and legality are two different things

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Overpricing an item is not a crime. Buying an overpriced item, even though it should be a crime, is not a crime either.
Since there is no way for the catshop to miss-represent the item itself (shop title does not count), there is no scamming.
For the longest time, the "scam" of the day was the subs/orbs and the stones. Everyone agreed that one of the biggest problems was that the items shared the same icon. However, as you can see, even in this thread, people are now complaining about overpriced token. Please note that the 2 token, luck and best luck, have different icons, however, people are still buying the wrong ones and complaining.

If false advertising is not considered a scam anywhere, then what is. Thats like advertising productA in a foreign country as ProductB(expensive) to tourists for the price of productB(expensive). Pple DO need to take responsiblity for their actions but there is a limit. If you can sue for false advertising outside game, then you can be sure it breaks some kind of law for scams. Having this ingame totally dissipates any seriousness but selling something with the intention of hoping the buyer thinks it as another item, can be accounted as fraud.

At some point people need to accept responsibility for their actions. What some people could use as an excuse on the sub "scam", the icons being the same, can no longer be used in the case of the tokens, however, people are still acusing others of scamming when they try to sell a token of luck for 4million, when the icons are not the same, and the description is also not the same.

You fail to take into account that the pictures consist of foreign words. Some pple have a easier time looking at it because they can either actually read it(chinese, japanaese, etc), are good at pictures, or have a good memory. I for one can read it. But when I put myself in another persons shoe and think of it if its some kind of arabic or something, I cant help wondering that there is a possibility i might fall for such a scam, considering most of these catshops are positioned in west archo where there is buyer competition too.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It would be no different than you walking by and seeing a lunar weapon +8 on the ground that someone forgot to bind/have angels while in pvp mode on a pve server.....

lunar weapon is for someone high lvl, AND refined to a +8, you would expect these pple to be smarter considering the PWI information CLEARLY states that PVP mode will drop things.
When you are aware and just forget, and when something is officially stated to add to that awareness and you STILL forget, that would most likely be considered fault of the dropper.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

If false advertising is not considered a scam anywhere, then what is. Thats like advertising productA in a foreign country as ProductB(expensive) to tourists for the price of productB(expensive). Pple DO need to take responsiblity for their actions but there is a limit. If you can sue for false advertising outside game, then you can be sure it breaks some kind of law for scams. Having this ingame totally dissipates any seriousness but selling something with the intention of hoping the buyer thinks it as another item, can be accounted as fraud.

The reason I am not counting the shop names is because that is what they are, just names. The same way I cannot claim you are false advertising yourself because your name is Deceptistar, and as far as I can tell you do not look like one. Also, if you were to enforce the shop names needing to reflect what is being sold, 99% of all catshops would be banned. Ever seen the shop that says "cheap stuff" and is not selling cheap stuff? Of the one who's name is "stuff you need" and there is not a single item in there that you want to buy? How about the shop that says "lots 3* items" and there is only one?

If you want to go with RL examples, Payless shoe stores sell shoes for more money than Wallmart. Do people sue Payless over the missleading store name?

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you want to go with RL examples, Payless shoe stores sell shoes for more money than Wallmart. Do people sue Payless over the missleading shop name?

But if the store was called "Rolex" & you walked in & all they were selling was Romex watches (made in china of much cheaper quality) at Rolex prices, you bet your **** off they'd be sued. Some would say its a direct scam, others who noticed the difference would claim its a bait and switch scam. Regardless, it would still be a scam.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what? Its a duck.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But if the store was called "Rolex" & you walked in & all they were selling was Romex watches (made in china of much cheaper quality) at Rolex prices, you bet your **** off they'd be sued. Some would say its a direct scam, others who noticed the difference would claim its a bait and switch scam. Regardless, it would still be a scam.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what? Its a duck.

So howcome Payless shoes is still in business under that name?

Also, if a shop was named Rolex, they would be in trademark infraction, and the real rolex would have them shut down. That is a totaly different set of laws.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Good way to fix this problem. Make shop names automatic based on what you are selling. Don't let players make up their own names and there can be no naming scams.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good way to fix this problem. Make shop names automatic based on what you are selling. Don't let players make up their own names and there can be no naming scams.

Nah, better yet, remove the darn cat shops, it would reduce lag, the possibility of people buying the wrong item based on icons, and we already have an alternative in place. Auction House.

Mavado - Harshlands

People..... no matter how much i love the analogies of this thread..... please....i beg you, stop them.... they're not solving anything >_< Everytime someone uses one another person uses the problems with the analogy as a ground to continue this argumentative thread >_<

So........ Analogies aside, this thread has more than enough proof and arguments to support the conclusion that although the scammer should not have scammed to begin with, the victim still holds a great deal of responsibility; you don't just hand over any amount of money and not check what you are handed in return.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good way to fix this problem. Make shop names automatic based on what you are selling. Don't let players make up their own names and there can be no naming scams.

And if I have 10 different items in my catshop? Shall my shop name stretch all the way across the street?

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear

i like COINZ gimmee all b:thanks