Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Cexylady - Lost City wrote: »

i quit my veno, cuz too many people think that herc is better than magmite, i have to say, i've seen too many veno's with herc's fail, and where i succeeded, learn to use the pet?? instead of more of relying on the pet...

Hercs own at boss tanking, magmites can be better otherwise. I just did a 2-2 that a magmite tanked. Not because the magmite makes the better tank, but because it holds aggro far better. Two aggro skills beats a hercs melee+1 aggro skill.

The average per pack is 26.8 (it's random 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 per), and you need 9999, that's 374 packs or 187 gold to get one... on average. You can end up higher/lower.

JollyJaguar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even tho I have a herc I do agree with the fact that we are NOT useless without one. Debuff, lure, DD, Heal an other veno's herc etc etc etc
And on top of that we are smexy.

I second that! b:chuckle

suki3000 wrote: »

Just out of interest how much in real money do people pay for a Herc?

close to $30 if not more. by my math anyway

Yup - it's somewhere between $150 and $200 if you buy it with real cash, in the absence of sales.

Take advantage of the fairly-regular pet-pack sales, is my advice. Save up until one occurs.

Celric - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When you are in TW. When facing a veno. Kill the nix or herc and just watch them stand around or run away. Its quite hilarious. Pathetic nowadays. Too dependent. Most are a bunch of noobs. (MOST. Not all. Still some very good venos out there.) Last weekend all I did was kill pets and laugh my **** off.
Useless...
What the cash shop has taught venos is how to suck ****. How to become entirely dependent on these *Overpowered Cash Shop pets* (pwi's 2nd main source of income) Before this CS existed Venos still fought w/ skills. Now it has become horribly pathetic.

I agree with this statement 100%

I kill a phoenix in a TW, the veno either runs like a coward, or stands in front of me and starts ressing their pet. Does no one learn how to play their class anymore?

I played half of my last TW petless.b:laugh I love my fox debuffs. I don't have to actaully damage you to make you die.

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In a straight out fight with no healing, and equal level pets, your shadou cub wouldnt stand a chance. It would be lucky if it even got the herc to 2/3 health before it died.
Herc has a +150% armor buf in case you aren't aware, as well as a ton more dps. Oh... and reflect damage on top of that.

Please stop posting garbage on the forums.

What you even gave it as little as 2/3rds b:laugh.

Much as I like my Shaodou Cub, it is horribly weak compared to my Herc. I only keep it around to lure once in a while.

Like it or not the game is designed to give Legendary Pets a huge advantage. Otherwise people wouldn't spend $200 per pet. Even if you paid with coin SOMEONE originally bought the battle pet packs with Zen.

Mistimancer - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sure.. I am not rich.. sure.. I don't level 10 levels a week... sure I cannot solo TT or BOSS.... SO WHAT.. that's not the way I like to play a game

People don't want to bring a hercless veno on some missions. SO WHAT.. that's not the way they like to play the game

Celric - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What the cash shop has taught venos is how to suck ****. How to become entirely dependent on these *Overpowered Cash Shop pets* (pwi's 2nd main source of income) Before this CS existed Venos still fought w/ skills. Now it has become horribly pathetic.

Oh, are you NOT using charms, dragon orbs, or socket stones? -Good for you! Lack of pvp experience is the cause of venos sucking in pvp imo. If a veno found it difficult to dmg another player while they had a pet, maybe it's wise to make a safe exit when without. In TW, getting someone to chase you and waste their time can be more valuable than just killing them. Oh, and my dad could beat up your dad.

akibera wrote: »

herc = expensive. i would never waste that much money on a game. and my in-game money is needed to improve my weapon and armor. if people don't like my golem, then don't squad with me. i'm perfectly fine alone! *shrugs* i don't $h!t money, i can't spend it on pixels mindlessly like some showoff freaks in this game.

Before the raise in gold prices, I could afforded a Herc in less than a week's earnings with in game coin. Now it would take ~4 weeks. With the tone of your post, I don't think you really do feel perfectly fine alone. Why not stop being obstinate and change what you're doing wrong or just live with your decision to be underpowered in peace? Any idiot capable of playing this game to level 80 is still capable of obtaining a Herc / Veno without having to sacrifice good equips.

i dont like venos with hercs tanking they make me feel so usseless
i also saw alot of them fail because they would tank so cleric could DD
it caused me to do alot of leeroy jenkins actions to prevent squad wipes (not all venos with hercs fail)

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i dont like venos with hercs tanking they make me feel so usseless
i also saw alot of them fail because they would tank so cleric could DD
it caused me to do alot of leeroy jenkins actions to prevent squad wipes (not all venos with hercs fail)

If we end up squading together, just let your squad know you prefer to tank (I can't keep track of everyone's preferences). Many times, barbs want to save on repair costs. I'm perfectly happy busting out my Scorpion or Marksman with Claw to kick the DD'ing up a notch, but not everyone appreciates that.

Mistimancer - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And yes.. If there way of playing is to only want Hercules Venom to join them, it's the way they play.. I agree... I still can find it unfair to very skilled and helpful Venoms that will be shut down just 'cause of no Herc

Would it be unfair to only want HA Barbs, or Clerics with BB/ Lv.10 res? -No.

Recently I was in a 2-3 run with another veno. I have Lv.1 purge, and a Herc while they had some kind of wolf and an obviously higher purge level (faster cool down is only benefit so I can purge 1/4 as often as L.10/sage). I purged as often as I could on the relevant bosss which ended up being synchronous with their purge once. All I can think was that this veno was intimidated by my pets when they griped "why am I the only one purging". I kept my mouth shut about all the deficiencies I saw in their "play style" and didn't type a word in response to their dishonest accusation. Hercless venos don't just tend to suck, they also tend to be obstinate, bitter, and boastful. There are other skills I'm more concerned about than purge since I have little interest in PvP atm and there's little use for it in PvE from what I can see so far. I was also brought on as a DD, and would respect a decision to pass me up based on my purge level. It turns out that this boss self buffs every 15 seconds, while purge's cool down is 30 seconds + a channel /cast time of 2.7s at Lv10. I'm considering upgrading it, but not for this single boss I may never tackle in squad again. In solo, the buff would provide more reflect damage, and wouldn't be avoidable even with L10/sage purge. So why is Herc affordable but not Purge for me is what some may be wondering.. I put Claw on 2 of my pets to kill bosses faster (which also saves barb repair costs). I put Protect and Strong on my Marksman so I could DD more while having a good DD pet (which also saves barbs repair costs). I invested in Myriad Rainbow, Sage Melee Mastery, and many other skills (which also save barbs repair costs) by killing faster. Any of these things a veno could be discriminated against for.

A good veno will be called on: same with any class. I prefer soloing most of the time. -Despite that, and others often trying to tell me how to play my class: I'm still called on plenty. If you have to tell people you have skills, or point out what others are or aren't doing: maybe you don't have skills or much value. Maybe getting a Herc should be a priority. Maybe it's why I'm called on plenty. Maybe I suck. At least I'm not one of those bitter obstinate venos. I bought my pets/ skills with in game coin and see no overwhelming obstacles for people to do the same.

The_owner - Lost City wrote: »

Btw WIZARDS FTW? Pwn you all if they wanted too ^^

ROFL, I'll remember to KOS u if I see u on LC.

I agree that it isn't fair to discriminate against venos who do not have the uber-pet; however, I understand the viewpoint of other players: it's much easier to measure a veno's worth by their pet than it is by their skills, because you can't see the skills until they're in play. Therefore, if they have the ultimate tank pet they are garaunteed to be useful, even if you have to yell at them to do it right.

I, personally, would rather be a venomancer who has built up her skills and developed good dungeon and general game play strategies, especially considering that venos are good both with soloing and with group play. They can bramble gaurd, spark transfer, and use their pet to save the tank in a time of emergency. In a world where we're getting drowned in cash shop pets though, it makes it even more difficult to keep up if you don't conform.
So maybe we should start a discussion on ways to outdo a cash shop pet ^^. Anyone have any suggestions?

This is why I quit being a Veno.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You wouldn't like me then. I'm very greedy, I feel that Barbarians that don't work to minimize their costs don't deserve the group to subsidize their tanking expenses (whether that's giving them earlier picks, more items, or flat out giving them coin).

I always seem to end up agreeing with you. The same Barbs that told me to tank bosses for them didn't want to give up or share their positions in choice of drops (the rules stated: "tank" not "barb"). I used to do a lot of Zhen as a Wiz. Barbs take very little damage in Zhen, and don't need charms but got the same cut of loot. Because of negotiations, dilly dallyers, etc, it's much more profitable for us to solo TT's (at least the earlier ones). I don't think people understand how they waste our potential. I love good barbs, but there are issues with the game that can put barbs and venos at odds.

You see, in 2-2 squad (haven't done 2-3 so I can't give an example of there) a herc is capable of tanking everything except for wurlord and cosmoforce (with one veno).

I don't remember a problem with Cosmo, and that was before I got boss tanking equips. Maybe I'm mistaken, or it's pure mag vs arcane or vit?

I'm still not sure though how you can't afford to level it, you should have the spirit unless you have a lot of your sage/demon books, which would leave only coin... and coin is easy.

It has a little to do with spirit, a little to do with wanting to be able to afford a rare sage book if it pops up, a little to do with some empty slots on equips and the perfect garnet/garnet gems I'm imbuing. I also just bought some phys atk /def stuff since I notice a lot more usefulness of fox form lately.

Could you solo heal cosmo in 2-2? When I tried I wasn't able to, the herc would eventually die. I'm pure mag (or close, I have about 20 assorted points in other stats from before I knew better... just never seemed worth spending the coin to fix) so if a herc can be healed on something at a given level I should be able to heal it.

I have to agree about the wasted potential, I swear it comes down to peoples ego's and nothing more. Fortunately I usually have the same barb in my squads and he knows when he should/shouldn't tank, doesn't cry over charm ticks, and pays attention. It's pretty rare to find barbs or well, any players like that.