Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Is this a necro since post b4 all the ones today are like a month + ago?

Brael - Dreamweaver

Yes, though at least for the duration of this event... oddly topical. It can also extend to charmless barbs/clerics.

Miseri - Dreamweaver

I see venos everywhere, they must be loved,
Foxrunning, Your an amazing speaker I love what you said a long time ago on page one of this thread
clerics, for they keep my mana full and plenty

And try being a mage at a low lvl, were freaking Rodney Dangerfield No Respect, haha but just wait til were higher and Bam suddenly Hey can you nuke this for us lol , sure its my job after all

But enough i know this is an old thread, I just wanted to show some venos love, cus I wish i could have a pet, it gets lonely soloing a mage out there XD

Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear

I'm a Veno, and no herc, and I get so many squad invites all around it drives me crazy b:sweat

It's not werther you have a herc or not, it's much more important werther you're good in squad work or not. If you know your stuff, and can do your job, everybody will want you.

And don't mind the ones who underestimate your strenghtb:cool

Foxx - Heavens Tear

"You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone."
-Al Capone

Windsun - Sanctuary

A veno has a harder time finding a TW fac than finding a squad as long as he/she plays her class well.

kittenkittymew

yeah it is kidda crappy for us who cant afford it or want it

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

ohhhhhhhhhhhh wwwwwwwoooooooowwwwwwwww.................... any freaking magmite (the free pet that EVERY veno has) can tank ANY freaking boss if you have ENOUGH freaking venos spamming "heal pet", and one cleric to BB IF and only if the boss aoes.

akidia

Ugh I so agree. The Herc is an extremely effective tanker, I'm not going to argue with that, and you have to cause some imbalance in order to make money off of something like an in-game pet. However, it has caused so much imbalance in the game, it's not even funny. Not only does it take the place of barbarians as tankers, but now venomancers have to spend either a tremendous amount of coins (if you can buy Hercs, I've never seen one in a shop) or their real money to be considered useful. Plus, when there is no tank for clerics to heal, then clerics might one day be considered useless. And you know, the pets they sell in the boutique are just going to get stronger. The makers of PW have to continue to impress, and when the Herc gets old, some new, stronger pet will come out. And the new pets will continue to get stronger, maybe even to near invincibility or invincibility itself (I doubt it). Who knows, one day they might even make a pet that serves you food and drinks while it solos the monster. It's the same with the charms. Charms might continue to get better and better until the player equipping it is unbeatable. One day, venos might even be considered the only useful class just because they have the latest pet. These are all just some of my guesses, but I'm worried for the people in the future who don't have money to spend on this game. Now lets all go have ice cream! =D

Kardie - Dreamweaver

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

ohhhhhhhhhhhh wwwwwwwoooooooowwwwwwwww.................... any freaking magmite (the free pet that EVERY veno has) can tank ANY freaking boss if you have ENOUGH freaking venos spamming "heal pet", and one cleric to BB IF and only if the boss aoes.

No, you actually can't.

All the venos in the server won't help if the rock gets one shot.

Accelerated - Sanctuary

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

ohhhhhhhhhhhh wwwwwwwoooooooowwwwwwwww.................... any freaking magmite (the free pet that EVERY veno has) can tank ANY freaking boss if you have ENOUGH freaking venos spamming "heal pet", and one cleric to BB IF and only if the boss aoes.

I lol'd. 10chara

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

Sad to see the Company introduced two overpowered pets which can cause imbalance in the game, only with a view to make huge profit & the players readily buy them at ridiculously high prices..just to get an "edge above others" & to be a rich **** who can stay in TTs all day wid their hercs. And ofc, if sum1 comments abt it, they got the 'right' to say "we've paid for the herc, so we'll exploit as much we want"...

Another thing, pets like Magmites r any day better than the crappy hercs..except for the herc's self-buffs
Give sum self-buff skills for Magmites & the hercs will lose their "legendary pet" status..but ofc that wont happen, coz PWE gotta make huge money by selling the op pets..
Guys, dont just buy the hercs with a view to making money all day long..Venomancer is a class thats made so u can enjoy/explore the game by trying out a wide variety of pets found in the wild..

Im not against the usage of hercs..but its sad to see many new venos starting wid hercs since they r low lvls themselves & getting to 70-80+ pretty fast...I've come across many such venos who r literally fcukin noobs at their class...they know just one thing, power lvl wid their hercs & then stay in TTs or FBs all day when they get to higher lvls.
Ya gotta learn to enjoy the game..every lvl of it wid ur pets...only fail venos play with their hercs & nixes the whole time...(I didnt say venos having hercs & nixes r fail)

_River - Heavens Tear

OMFG who the heck necroed this again???? GMs/Mods please close this for all of our sanitys... again x.x;;;;

lmaonade1xp

skillz ftw

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Not this agian.

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not this agian.

+100 b:thanks

lmaonade1xp

_MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not this agian.

okay time to let this die... oops b:surrender

Brael - Dreamweaver

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sad to see the Company introduced two overpowered pets which can cause imbalance in the game, only with a view to make huge profit & the players readily buy them at ridiculously high prices..just to get an "edge above others" & to be a rich **** who can stay in TTs all day wid their hercs. And ofc, if sum1 comments abt it, they got the 'right' to say "we've paid for the herc, so we'll exploit as much we want"...

Great if you're soloing TT. The profit is equal/better, while also being easier to do squad mode with people though (not necessarily a full squad, but still a squad... I'm pretty happy with the 2.5 mil I get from TT2-2 runs with 4 people in 2-2.5 hours per run). Some venos still use their herc, such as me but that's more due to a lack of a real dps pet (no pet bag space) than any other reason.

Another thing, pets like Magmites r any day better than the crappy hercs..except for the herc's self-buffs
Give sum self-buff skills for Magmites & the hercs will lose their "legendary pet" status..but ofc that wont happen, coz PWE gotta make huge money by selling the op pets..

No, they aren't. A scorpion even with claw can't out damage a nix. A bee can't out damage a nix either with legendary skills. A magmite even with herc buffs is still weaker than a herc. A magmite doesn't get herc strength buffs until level 80 when they can be trained to 5. By 90 you have a magmite with 2934 hp and a herc with 4135 hp. That right there means a magmite is only 71% as good as the herc. On top of that, a magmite after level 80 (for rank 5 buffs) would have 85% physical and 80% magic resist. A herc would have 86% physical and 83% magic resist.

What this means is, the magmite has 71% of the hp, 93% of the physical, and 85% of the magic. Lets say physical makes up 2/3 of damage taken, that would mean .71*((.93*.67)+(.85*.33)) for 64% of the ability, or if you would rather look at it this way: 1/.64=1.5625 so you could say a herc is still 56.25% better than a magmite with buffs. Yes, the buffs are a big part of the hercs appeal but it's base stats are very impressive too.

Guys, dont just buy the hercs with a view to making money all day long..Venomancer is a class thats made so u can enjoy/explore the game by trying out a wide variety of pets found in the wild..

This is false. If it were true, there would be a value to higher level pets beyond novelty. Shadou Cub is 20, Eldergoth Marksman is 41, Crystaline Magmite is 17, Jaden Qingfu is 2, Varicose Scorpion is 3, Petite Sawfly is 8. Notice a pattern? Higher level pets hold very little value, it's the ones you tame early before you explore the wild that have more long term appeal.

Im not against the usage of hercs..but its sad to see many new venos starting wid hercs since they r low lvls themselves & getting to 70-80+ pretty fast...I've come across many such venos who r literally fcukin noobs at their class...they know just one thing, power lvl wid their hercs & then stay in TTs or FBs all day when they get to higher lvls.
Ya gotta learn to enjoy the game..every lvl of it wid ur pets...only fail venos play with their hercs & nixes the whole time...(I didnt say venos having hercs & nixes r fail)

I would agree that having only a herc and nix is fail, but they are what you'll use 95% of the time. There's better DD pets than a herc for sure, my issue with them is I just don't have the pet bag room. I currently have an Asgard Plumpfish, Herc, Nix, 9 tails (worthless pet, but it looks cool), and Marksman in my pet bag. That only leaves me with the herc for dps in an FB or TT. I tried the 9 tails and the marksman, neither does more damage so those are both lure pets only really (or some niche tanking for the marksman). I have a scorpion (not fully leveled/skilled), magmite, antelope, turtle (not up to date on levels), and something else in my bank. Aside from switching the 9 tails/scorpion there's not really another option for my pets right now and I can't really justify the ~860k per pet bag slot right now. There's better ways to spend coin to improve myself.

Abby_Sciuto - Sanctuary

I'm insulted.
My Bert could own any other pet b:angry!
Farting hippo's for life! b:victory

Bearleeable - Lost City

Ascension - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Everyone has their own opinion as to who they want in their squad.

If they don't reply back to your offer for help, there's no need to think more about it.

But considering effectiveness of a pet, the herc does stand above with reasons already mentioned in this post.

However, it doesn't make other venos who wishes to use other pets in the wrong in any way.

It's just that the general conception in most people's mind is that the herc = safety net to a degree. The herc also provides a smaller margin for error if things do go awry or by chance the veno is inexperience or forgot to do something.

It's also a valid point to say that not all herc venos are good and not all non-herc venos are bad. But it's also valid to say that herc venos that are good are easily better not in the execution of skills but in the element of pet survivability.

For instance, a herc can allow me to lure constantly if I deem the party fit to tank a massive amount of mobs at once. Also, just in case a main tank happen to D/C or have to go, a herc can take over depending on the situation. Also, several herc venos can bind together and test new things out. A herc with blessing can tank other bosses that a normal herc can't. 2-3 venos spamming heal on one herc can help it tank a boss that it can't tank with only one veno healing. RB & channeling gears & calculating different cast speeds, allocating roles amongst herc venos, etc. Basically, a good veno will always remain a good veno no matter what pet they possess. It's just that a herc will also unveil new paths to uncover in its usage depending on which group.

Some of us do not have the time to spend all day in game and wishes to maximize efficiency and reduce margin of riskiness to the bare minimum. However, this does not apply to anyone else and neither does this thought prevail any other thoughts.

I personally have done crazy things and tried tanking many things from Krimson to TT bosses to fb bosses. It all depends on the situation and what is required of me. I'm Arcane btw.

All in all, this is a game and we want to have fun with it. However, this too may be up for debate as people find different ways of having fun which can be totally abrasive to others.

In the end, if you find the game hard to bear, step back and go do something else.

Herc venos or not, it all boils down to the veno.

I really admire your post, I got a herc for my wife ( even though she had a highly modified golem ) cause i knew it would make her life easier, at first she really didn't want the ugly yellow butterball. But as she learned to use him and she's still not perfect, she began to really enjoy how much easier he makes her job... I inherited her old golem and brougth his skilsl up the rest of the way. My veno is not my main at all, but is an alt i dearly enjoy. BamBam's skills are Roar 4, Bash 4, Tough 4 pierce 4 . And quite frankly i do things that other people either don't know how to, or simply can't do, even my wifes herc. For example, barb is tanking, gets in trouble, maybe the cleric blinked, whatever, I can pretty easily steal agro for the few seconds he needs for that heal to get back up. Yes i have to spam the hell outa my golem so my DPS is not anywhere near as high as my wifes... But, I can take on 6 or so mobs easily with my golem simultaneously if I just let him do the work. I can easily steal agro back from an archer or wiz should they out agro the barb, My wifes herc can't. We chose bash to replace pounce because she wanted more DPS and better agro holding. We considered Roar, but chose not to, as i already have it, and she would be without a dmg enhancement skill. ON the flip side, my wife is VERY good at watching "the sides" and catching them b4 they get anywhere near the tank. Where my golem is awesome at bouncing between several mobs quickly to get agro off everyone else and onto him. I use my genie to help offset the lack of HP by casting dmg and dmg reduc skills as i heal.
Now, could my life be easier/faster/more dps with a herc, i really think it could... could i assure myself that I can "save the party" shoudl things go to hell? No, not a chance. I will forever have my golem. I may someday, should i have 25-40M to spare get a herc and use him as my main. But since even 5M is a job, this won't happen anytime soon.
But by no stretch of any imagination am i a "useless veno" I push limits daily and solo many boss's and instance without worry. I solo bh51 daily and soon will do 59 ( dam zimo ) as some have said yes life is much easier with a herc, but a herc is not as good a agro holder as a properly built golem is. Oh, my veno is lvl 66

BladesFury - Heavens Tear

true post indeed.

I would gladly accept a hercless veno anyday into my party. however, there is still an opposite side of a story.

Maybe, maybe that squad has got no barb at all. and all they have left is one slot for both a puller and a tank. I am very sure that you cannot say for certain that ur magmite can tank a boss throughout without risking a party wipe. Im not sure, maybe you can, but there are some who (im sorry) but really doesnt make the mark. That being said however, i have seen some really great venos who are able to handle a boss better than a herc can.

And since im a BM and possibly a tank, if i have a cleric with me it doesnt really matter if the veno has a herc or not, i would accept him/her in. But if im in a squad with no clerics, i would be hesitant in accepting a veno without a herc. It is better to be on the safe side, we dont want a party wipe do we?

Bearleeable - Lost City

oh i agree... and i'm certainely not flawless... 2day i died in bh51 in a spot I never have any trouble with.. simple mobs LOL, just one slipped through and my golem decided he wanted a break... ( stupid rocks )... yeah, i would never say i'm anywhere NEAR as good as a barb, or really a bm... i'm just a really good all around jack of all trades... and yes, Master of None.... having a herc for DPS is defintely a win, and with its higher hp, much more likely to live that extra 10%... i cant think of the number of times, i've gone, "oh dam, that was close...2%?? cRipEs", where my wife is "i got it" or "oh hell no, HELP" LOL

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Bearleeable - Lost City wrote: »

oh i agree... and i'm certainely not flawless... 2day i died in bh51 in a spot I never have any trouble with.. simple mobs LOL, just one slipped through and my golem decided he wanted a break... ( stupid rocks )... yeah, i would never say i'm anywhere NEAR as good as a barb, or really a bm... i'm just a really good all around jack of all trades... and yes, Master of None.... having a herc for DPS is defintely a win, and with its higher hp, much more likely to live that extra 10%... i cant think of the number of times, i've gone, "oh dam, that was close...2%?? cRipEs", where my wife is "i got it" or "oh hell no, HELP" LOL

b:laugh ya me don't care whether they have a herc or not heck my friend is a veno with a pet doggy named Billy! muhahaha fear billy~ (^.^) besides if you really wanted a tank get a barb. seriously the hercs are taking their jobs. b:shocked
lol~ (^.^) jk jk

BladesFury - Heavens Tear

Bearleeable - Lost City wrote: »

"oh dam, that was close...2%?? cRipEs", where my wife is "i got it" or "oh hell no, HELP" LOL

ouch that must have sucked... bad luck i guess. could have made it through if lucky stars were on ur side

BladesFury - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

b:laugh ya me don't care whether they have a herc or not heck my friend is a veno with a pet doggy named Billy! muhahaha fear billy~ (^.^) besides if you really wanted a tank get a barb. seriously the hercs are taking their jobs. b:shocked
lol~ (^.^)

i suppose there are some cases where there are only one spot left, and lets say its a FB 69 that requires a lure. Between a barb or a semi barb-like veno, wouldnt u like a herc instead?

Well im not saying that a veno without a herc is useless, certainly they aren't. But just saying that in there are somecases where people are forced to accept venos with hercs only.

PS: i have a lot of veno friends without hercs and they are great

tweakz

BladesFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i suppose there are some cases where there are only one spot left, and lets say its a FB 69 that requires a lure. Between a barb or a semi barb-like veno, wouldnt u like a herc instead?

Eldergoth Marksman - better for lure, and better for DD on Polearm and Gaurnob. -Why would you want a Herc for these?

Zoe - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Eldergoth Marksman - better for lure, and better for DD on Polearm and Gaurnob. -Why would you want a Herc for these?

Not having to worry about leveling yet another pet, not having to try to find and pay even more for skills that the herc, who already has better hp and defense, comes with from the start. It's a heck of a lot less trouble for something that's all around better.

SxCii - Lost City

1 word, TANKb:laugh

LinZeta - Lost City

THREATEN PET SKILL FTW


I think skills make up for any pet.

=P

Gawd, this thread just keep going. -.-

Untamedchaos - Sanctuary

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs aren't just there to have the **** beat out of them and do very little damage.

BARBS DONT DO LITTLE DAMAGE < Axe bm's are weaker than us >__>

And hercs aren't the best tanks in the game, Barbs are with a good cleric.