Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Who nerfed this?

Josepf - Harshlands · September 2009

I think maybe...we should dump the Hercs altogether?
As I read somewhere in the thread...

I don't have much xp playing as I'm only lvl28, but if I took a Herc, I wouldn't learn anything about being a Veno....

She'd just kick back, drink her tea, and move on up. Soooo when these "young" venos that do use use a Herc and 'move on up', learn nothing...
You got...nothing when u put her in your squad. Just a tank, no/know nothing.
Is this how we want to 'raise' our venos?... yah I know the power mongers wouldn't care.

Cenminator - Dreamweaver · September 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@TabbyKitty

do you find that a golem can handle the mobs and bosses at your level? that is what i am most concerned about-i had a few other pets that i though would certainly stay the course, and couldnt because of lower HP, etc. someone suggested that i get an amoured bear to be the tank of my team once i hit 80, but i've heard it isnt as good stats wise as the little bear is....whats your experience with this? (or anyone else who has worked with them, for that matter! ^_^)

@ Gideion
ok, you have the point...? ok, lets see more people put that knowledge into effect, and start taking venos with wild caught pets into squads, instead of tossing them out soon as folks find out there isnt a herc in her bag.

@tweaks
nice of you to be so bigoted against the poor! did you ever stop to think *why* that person is? some cant spend as much time on the game for many reasons, and most cant spend money on the game. both are reasons for not having a herc or a nix. most families prefer to eat and be dressed in something other than rags, so that one family member can sit and play all day with a bunch of yellow pixles that cost over a weeks worth of food.

and i would LOVE to know where you got your 'easy exp'! i have no clue that there is any part of the game that is easy exp....perhaps thats how you got to your level, but i worked hard and alone for all of mine. and all my money goes into paying for my armor etc, food for pets, leveling my skills, and-when i can afford it- those of my pets. i suppose in your estimation that is a poor decision.

the only things that caught pets can't do as well as hercs are bosses. any pet you catch can take down mobs without any problems at all.

Drew - Dreamweaver · September 2009

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

It just disgusts me how some you are so wrapped up in the "Standards of PW" that you ignore those who don't fit the molds. Veno doesn't mean Herc. Clerics are not just your healing slaves. Barbs aren't just there to have the **** beat out of them and do very little damage.

I agree with you on the whole veno without herc bit, but the rest of this is just ****. If a cleric isn't going to heal and only dd, i would rather get a wizard which is better at it hands down and if a barb sucks too much to tank i would rather replace him with a bm who deals WAY BETTER physical damage than barb. There are some standards that are there for a reason.

Isala - Sanctuary · September 2009

Drew - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree with you on the whole veno without herc bit, but the rest of this is just ****. If a cleric isn't going to heal and only dd, i would rather get a wizard which is better at it hands down and if a barb sucks too much to tank i would rather replace him with a bm who deals WAY BETTER physical damage than barb. There are some standards that are there for a reason.

That's the thing, though. Standards are there for a reason, but there seems to be a general idea that there are ways that things must be done. You, right there, have proven that you think outside of the box. A lot of the people in those situations would stick to the "Norm", which is a barb, and cleric. That's what's so ironic, and redundant about the whole thing. They request Hercs, with a Cleric, and a Barb in a party. Then, they expect a Veno to tank, while the others DD. However, if you followed other standards, the Cleric wouldn't have maxed out attacks, only a select few, and the barb would be tank build, not dealing the damage an attack build would be. It's such a bizarre game we play, when we stick Hercs in a role they shouldn't have, and expect people who normally play those roles to do something they aren't usually doing, and still get upset at them when they aren't doing what the party thinks they should be doing as well as the party expects them to be doing it.

Asurr - Heavens Tear · September 2009

hmm, didnt read entire thread and i know im not that well experienced into some aspects of the game since i only been playing for about a week (but im still learning lots) but, from what i read wouldnt a nix be ALOT better then a herc for fighting bosses because of there high dmg? it seems to me that barbs and BMs do the most tanking and a herc cant rly compare to the tanking of a good barb and BM. so since BMs and barbs are doing all the tanking, why use a herc at all and instead use a nix for dmg dealing or even a caught higher dps/dmg pet?

if the herc is NOT tanking then whats the point of having it fight? use a pet that deals more dmg since from what i was told, a petite sawfly and a scorpion and a few other tamed pets does more dmg then a herc (unless ive been told wrong?)

so ya, if thats the case then its pointless to have such a huge meat patty in battle if there not going to tank anything. and since it seems hercs are best at tanking and suck at dmg dealing then i cant see a reason to use it to dmg deal if its not going to tank... especially when they are other pets that does more dmg then herc.

also, if a herc is tanking then that means the veno will spend ALOT of time trying to heal there pet. that means that the veno will not be doing her high dmging spells to kill the target faster because they are to busy healing the herc from dying. its not like a pet can heal themselves automatically (or can they lol?) like players can. so for me, id think that a pet that can help kill the target faster is best while someone that is far far better at tanking tanks.

LadyGraceXx - Sanctuary · September 2009

"Veno doesn't mean Herc. Clerics are not just your healing slaves."

Couldn't of said it better myself ...

Shinsen - Lost City · September 2009

Ok, just to answer the question of the thread. You ask why ?
The answer is: cos venos made it themselves. Seriously, all venos now "crie" if they don't have herc - its like they can't hold mobs agroo a sh*t. Well, maybe not all venos, but you get my point.
It's the same as now 90% of veno population don't pvp if they got no nix. They made it look that venos without nix is a fail. And i kinda doubt that, tho i'm a BM and ofcs i know less about playing veno then actual venomancer player.

Malei - Sanctuary · September 2009

Shinsen - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, just to answer the question of the thread. You ask why ?
The answer is: cos venos made it themselves. Seriously, all venos now "crie" if they don't have herc - its like they can't hold mobs agroo a sh*t. Well, maybe not all venos, but you get my point.
It's the same as now 90% of veno population don't pvp if they got no nix. They made it look that venos without nix is a fail. And i kinda doubt that, tho i'm a BM and ofcs i know less about playing veno then actual venomancer player.

Sorry to say honey. You have no idea how much it grieves me to say this.

But...

And prepare for it.

If you do -not- have a Nix in PvP now, and you're a veno, you're seriously nerfing yourself. Before you ask, I am a Veno that doesn't have a nix.

But to enter into PK mode without the nix by your side when practically every Veno and their mother and sister are walking around with a bleeding machine? Its suicide. I've tried dueling with a lvl 51 Veno before[I was lvl 80 at the time] who had a nix. I had my Bear, and the stun locked on her perfectly while I started to deal dmg.

The nix cut me down in two seconds. I couldn't even run from it.

There just isn't a point to PVP without it. It has become the PVP "must-have" for a Veno. I know there will be some that try to argue my point, but there isn't a way around it. When it was a rare sight, yes, there were Venos that were able to still do PVP with nothing more than a Kowlin or a rock or etc and kick some major ****. But nowadays? Its not worth the angel cost/possible item drop/embarrassment/etc. b:surrender

Now, for PvE. That's Mama's field right there.

I did not get a herc until lvl 80. The only sole reason for me getting said her was to farm TT. The herc doesn't determine the skills that I have as a Veno. The herc doesn't make me a better Veno than others. The herc will not save me in a tight spot because you damn sure better believe that a Veno would die SO MUCH QUICKER than the herc if she does not know what she is doing. The herc doesn't do all that much great damage. The herc is an eyesore.

But.

The herc can handle bosses that, let's face it, any other pets just can't do. You can take 4 Venos and put them on a magmite and spam spam spam the day away, and yeah, you'll do Chin. Hell, with a cleric, you might be able to do the Drum boss too. But...why? Why go that far? People don't like inconveniences, they don't want to waste time. When they want an instance done? They want the reassurance that the -pet- will not die tend a situation grows dire. They want to know that the Veno can snatch a boss off of the team if the tank dies. They want the repair to be less costly. They want the convenience to attack without worrying about HP[Barb and Cleric]. That is what the other players look for when they say "Veno w/herc."

That is all a herc is, players. A convenience. It doesn't determine how skilled a Veno is. It takes jack squat to sit there and hold down your spam key and let the herc do the work for you. I know Venos that lure with herc's reflect on. I know Venos that think they don't need to Bramble Hood when they lure something like Wurlord because "Oh, the herc can tank anything." Those are the ones that you need to worry about.

If you don't feel like spending money on the herc. Don't. But, I will say this. The herc has earned me twicei]Maybe even more[/i back of what my husband and I paid for it.

The pet doesn't determine the Veno's skills. I know it has been said before. It will -never- determine the Veno's skill cause it is up to said Veno to utilize what she knows in order to become the best. Those without hercs aren't useless. And *gasp* those with hercs aren't useless either.

And to those that are "herc haters", there are Venos that won't even use their herc to lure cause pet food is annoying to have to deal with. Also, I don't want to tank in a squad that has barb, cleric. But then the barb whines at me when I say that I want to use the barb/cleric team cause its a safer more efficiant method because he wants to save on repair costs. What do you people want >_>;

tl;dr: Herc is only a convenience, not a necessity. Barbs need to make up their minds.

kenlee · September 2009

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hmm, didnt read entire thread and i know im not that well experienced into some aspects of the game since i only been playing for about a week (but im still learning lots) but, from what i read wouldnt a nix be ALOT better then a herc for fighting bosses because of there high dmg? it seems to me that barbs and BMs do the most tanking and a herc cant rly compare to the tanking of a good barb and BM. so since BMs and barbs are doing all the tanking, why use a herc at all and instead use a nix for dmg dealing or even a caught higher dps/dmg pet?

if the herc is NOT tanking then whats the point of having it fight? use a pet that deals more dmg since from what i was told, a petite sawfly and a scorpion and a few other tamed pets does more dmg then a herc (unless ive been told wrong?)

so ya, if thats the case then its pointless to have such a huge meat patty in battle if there not going to tank anything. and since it seems hercs are best at tanking and suck at dmg dealing then i cant see a reason to use it to dmg deal if its not going to tank... especially when they are other pets that does more dmg then herc.

also, if a herc is tanking then that means the veno will spend ALOT of time trying to heal there pet. that means that the veno will not be doing her high dmging spells to kill the target faster because they are to busy healing the herc from dying. its not like a pet can heal themselves automatically (or can they lol?) like players can. so for me, id think that a pet that can help kill the target faster is best while someone that is far far better at tanking tanks.

you cant summon a flying pet in dungeons, that means no phoenix available

tweakz · September 2009

GideonBG - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Isn't this thread dead already? We all got the point - venoes without hercs are not useless and can be better than herc venoes.... -_-

Arcane barbs are not useless and can be better than HA Barbs. b:chuckle

Josepf - Harshlands wrote: »

I think maybe...we should dump the Hercs altogether?
As I read somewhere in the thread...

I don't have much xp playing as I'm only lvl28, but if I took a Herc, I wouldn't learn anything about being a Veno....

Far from true: By using a Herc, I'm already experienced in FB's and dispatching mobs/ bosses much more efficiently well before I'm squadded for them. I rarely use the Herc to grind, and use all 9 battle pets I have largely because of the Herc rather than not. I have a phys debuff lurer (threaten), mag lurer (using slow), and a ranged lurer. If I were Hercless, I'd probably just have a ranged lurer.

Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the only things that caught pets can't do as well as hercs are bosses. any pet you catch can take down mobs without any problems at all.

Ranged pets can do some bosses before a Herc can, and a Herc is typically best for same level elites. I do bust out my ranged pet in fb79, but only because it has Claw, Protect, and Strong to make it more useful than a Herc on non-melee elites.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · September 2009

Venos with no herc play better in the water nothing to worry about there.

BladesFury - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Funny that you completely glanced over the part of his link that lists where an Eldergoth makes a great tank. Basically, if the boss chain casts when the tank is far away, you can use an Eldergoth, often to great effect. Not only do you get an extra 10 distance on your heals (that's the distance of the range attack they have) to keep you out of ae's on fights like Slitt/Slither/etc. But, a boss that chain casts can have significantly less dps than a boss that's using melee+casting. So at times, you can't keep a herc up but you can keep an Eldergoth up. Just to give one example, Qingzi has been done at a lower level using an Eldergoth than it's been done using a herc.

True, but those are for bosses with range. As i have said, venos would have a variety of pets and they pull one out depending on the situation. How about those that... does not do chain casting? Instead phy dmg instead. We do have several of those bosses around. The last one in FB 59 does, so is the wood one in FB59. If there is only a veno without a herc and tank in the pt, a party wipe would be a possibility

yeap i get the point that herc is not always the best, but neither is Marksman. Different pets have their own forte and the number of pets that u have should be an all rounded one, so that there is always a best pet for every situation. And herc certainly does fill in the gap of a physical tank on a boss.

tweakz · September 2009

BladesFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Instead phy dmg instead.

It takes work to try makes sense of your posts with such statements. Obnoxiously stupid is all I can think to describe it. Would it hurt to take some extra time to try to come across as literate? -Please.

Brael - Dreamweaver · September 2009

All bosses from 59 can be range tanked. Back when I did mine, an archer tanked all of them.. from range. It would take two venos to heal an Eldergoth in the low 60's though. At 74 it literally required me chain casting to keep my pet up (I was curious how it would do). An Eldergoth can do those bosses before a Magmite (and a shadou cub could almost certainly do it before either), but a herc can do them at 63 which prevents the ape from being the top tanking choice on that mob, not to mention the considerable aggro disadvantage involved in range tanking with a marksman.

A Marksman is our second or third most useful pet in all honesty. A herc getting #1 due to the content it opens up, with a nix and marksman in spots 2 and 3.

Outside of PvP I think a nix is overrated really, the added value of more exp when grinding isn't worth much when you consider how much non grinding exp has been put in the game Oracles (anniversary event... fund them with TT runs and it's faster per hour than grinding), frost, rebirth (I assume this is indoors... never done it), BH, CS, and WQ. It's too late for me to work the math out again, but if you assumed something like 3 hours of grinding a day on top of BH/CS/WQ a nix vs another pet really only changed your exp per day by about 2%.

The marksman on the other hand is a better tank than a herc in some situations, and one of the best lure's there is (tied for Kowlin I think, maybe slightly ahead). It's not very good as a DD pet clocking in at 73% of a hercs dps without skills and with skills (2 bashes) it beats a herc from 2-2.4, 8.1-11.2, 12.1-12.5, 14.1-14.5, and everything after 16 sec, with the average being 11% higher. Though that 11% has to be weighed against the reduced nuking as it needs more heals from AE's, and on ? bosses the aggro of two bash skills which I think makes it worse than a herc even as DD. Certainly there's pets that are higher damage than a herc at lower aggro such as a scorpion but a scorpion has survival issues.

In fact, taking purely attack*attack/sec, the order goes (using level 90 stats) herc 2137, scorpion 2001, crystaline magmite 1944, volcanic magmite 1940, and so on down the line. There's not really much indoors that can touch a herc for survivable dps atleast in places like Frost, LG, and TT (any time you fight a ? boss). On non ? bosses, a barbs aggro is a bit higher and you could make use of damage skills to change the order slightly (FB/BH mainly).

Anyways, hercs like all pets are tools. Hercs just happen to be very good tools that fill a wide range of tanking/dd jobs. A marksman is a great tool as well, sometimes tanking, sometimes pulling, and some convincing arguments (though I disagree with them) have been made for it making a better grinding pet than a herc.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · September 2009

Re: Your comment on the added content? Last night was just about the first time I've killed a non-boss monster outside of an instance since my mid 50s when they introduced the bounty hunter. Oh no, tell a lie, I helped kill some vultures last week.

The nix? She is a shiny shiny bird of fire which I basically never get to use. It can kill outdoors bosses early, but so can the herc.

There's, what, two flying bosses? One of which I 'tanked' by repeatedly summoning freshly caught flying foxes and throwing them at it. The other is jewels and I have NO idea what I need to take him out.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Anyways, hercs like all pets are tools. Hercs just happen to be very good tools that fill a wide range of tanking/dd jobs. A marksman is a great tool as well, sometimes tanking, sometimes pulling, and some convincing arguments (though I disagree with them) have been made for it making a better grinding pet than a herc.

Hmmm. The herc can AOE grind physical mobs more efficiently (fewer heals, more monsters at once) I'm not sure that's actually a terribly USEFUL ability any more, but it is there.

I can certainly see areas where the mobs are far enough away that they won't aggro on you that the eldergoth will be able to get their attention ore quickly - and if you can one or two-shot them that would be very very fast grinding.

Last time I tried (which was, admittedly, 50s with a not-fully-levelled herc) they seemed about equivalent in terms of speed of levelling.

And I ddon't see how a veno-without-a-herc can be better than an otherwise equivalent veno who does own one. More options are always good.

Though there's a risk that you'll try and use the herc for everything. That would be wrong.

Brael - Dreamweaver · September 2009

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The nix? She is a shiny shiny bird of fire which I basically never get to use. It can kill outdoors bosses early, but so can the herc.

This is pretty much how I feel about mine. To compound the issue, when I do grind, a lot of the terrain around my level just isn't nix friendly. The only option really is Firebath Phoenix's (think that's the name). Everything else is just surrounded by too many hills to make the nix worthwhile on land, and due to the loss of nukes/extra time to fly up/down for the nix and to grab loot, the herc ends up giving me a better kill rate.

I would love to be able to use my nix indoors but sadly, it's just not happening. Though with the way the game is evolving, especially for higher levels... I could see this being a valid suggestion (whether or not it would be done is another matter).

There's, what, two flying bosses? One of which I 'tanked' by repeatedly summoning freshly caught flying foxes and throwing them at it. The other is jewels and I have NO idea what I need to take him out.

Flying bosses can always be pulled to the ground too.

Hmmm. The herc can AOE grind physical mobs more efficiently (fewer heals, more monsters at once) I'm not sure that's actually a terribly USEFUL ability any more, but it is there.

The AE grind isn't that great. The idea is more monsters=more reflect=more damage, but it hit's a point of diminishing returns where you end up losing your ability to cast ae's between heals, and it takes awhile for aggro to be built up to let you ae in the first place. I'm not sure it's ever worth going past 4 to tell the truth, and even that seems iffy.

Last time I tried (which was, admittedly, 50s with a not-fully-levelled herc) they seemed about equivalent in terms of speed of levelling.

I'm going to try again when I catch my Eldergoth up, it's currently sitting at 74, I just haven't had the time to take it to cube and level it lately. Even if it does beat my herc though (or even tie honestly) it's going to run into the same problem as a nix when it comes to grinding value... the pattern seems to be phasing out grinding in favor of other methods of exp, or it's sure seemed that way for the past couple of months, so grinding power is going to be of limited value regardless. Atleast it seems unlikely the ape will be dethroned in the pulling/range tanking arenas until the next expansion is out... at the earliest.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · September 2009

ok, for the "easy exp"-i have been to prolly less than 10 wraith attacks, 1 legion attack, on weekends i rarely can play more than an hour because of family needs, oracles i have had maybe 4-5 in the course of the last year, been to nightscream 3 times (once as veno for anothers BH, twice for quests of my own). i've been in TT maybe 5-6 times. i have never been to OHT...how do i do that? BH- i had a friend who was on when it first started, and we did it together, but i havent seen her for at least a week or more, and all told, i think i have had less than 10 BHs of my own. i can handle mobs in there, but not the boss alone, and my son cant afford the repair bill of tanking/no cleric, so no help there. *sigh* we have had fun together...

i would dearly love to be able to pull squads together just like that...but that is my major problem- without that one pet, it seems no one wants to squad with me. which is a total mystery to me-i can literally sit there waving my hand when a call goes out for a squad, get put in, then, 8 times out of 10 they ask me if i have a herc, and i get dropped like a hot rock, even when i tell them i have two high level golems, and other strong pets. the other day, in the first squad i was in in over 2 weeks, i held off the turtles in fb59 after most of the squad had run ahead and aggroed them into attacking. barb and BM, cleric died, but my two worthless golems and i managed to hold them off and whittle down the numbers of them till the cleric and others were rezed. i felt fantastic, and very good that i had shown someone at least that my guys are tough. but that was the only one i have been in for a couple weeks. i dont mind grinding, really. but i wish i could get to go with others on things too....im lonely.

i know you think im a quitter/loser....i honestly do try to put into good use the ideas you guys give me here. i truly dont know why i dont have it work out for me. i keep trying to figure out why, i have asked my husband and son to look at how i do things/spending/time played/mobs worked/etc, and they dont get it either. i have to ask them, with dyscalculia, i have to have help being sure of buying/selling/anything to do with numbers.

my bottom line is just that i want to be able to get to do squads and all with others, and be accepted for what i am, and the pets i have be accepted. i just would like to be able to do what i came to this game to do: play with others here, find neat new pets to play with/have, and explore this beautiful world with friends i meet here.

thats all...b:sad

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Easy exp: BH, wraith events, frost, double exp weekends, TT for oracle money (2 hours=855k of oracles, throw in the time to do the oracle kills... say 3 hours total, that's 300k/hour exp), wereraven magus, pirates in nightscream. There's easy exp for you... lots of it too. If you don't want to do any of that, goto OHT and kill the 150's for some easy exp. This game is nothing but easy exp, they've done so much to provide alternatives to greuling level grind sessions that it's absolutely insane, and even those aren't hard... they're just long.

I don't mean this in a disrespectful way or anything but, did you ever stop to think that the only reason you can't get them isn't because you don't have the spare money in or out of the game, but instead is because you keep telling yourself that you can't? Rather than listen to ways you can get it (or figure some out on your own) you simply respond to them with "I can't get it", essentially you've shut yourself off to the possibility of having one no matter what.

I've posted for you several times how to make coin, with multiple suggestions each time, others have done the same. If you want to, you could get squads right now and make 2 mil coin a day on a playtime of 2 hours a day. If you played every day that's 60 million coin in a month. Take your husband or son along too (I forget which you said you play with) and take that share of drops too minus expenses and you're at 3.5 mil. That's 105 million in a month. At 400k gold that's 257 gold, which is enough to not only get a herc, but have you about 1/3 of the way to a nix. If gold is down after 6 weeks or so, you could be sitting on enough money to have both of them with some to spare on gear.

That's with 2 hours playtime, and using only the AH to sell things.

As for the Armored bear, it's equal to a cub that's 6 levels lower (much like your Valorian is about equal to a Crystaline that's 4 levels lower). Using it will get you higher level skills, but those skills don't offset the lower defense or lower damage. Leaving it overall weaker than a cub.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · September 2009

FoxRunning:

Ah. Yes. that is what a herc does.
It lets you say "Ok, I'm starting such and such a bounty. I can solo it. And will, if no one turns up. Anyone want to turn up and make it go faster?"

It's lovely getting people turning up as you start a bounty.

I've not tried getting in on a random pick-up-group bounty squad.

Bri:

Well, there's still a few flying monsters. The XP boost there might even it up with the herc.

And yeah, the "Try to fly through the ground" bug is crazy annoying.

Indoors nix would make us the most hated class forever and ever. But certainly some places (the instance inside dreamweaver) really LOOK like they are outdoors.

Then again, as I understand it, flying wasn't previously allowed in TW either, so you never know...

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · September 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok, for the "easy exp"-i have been to prolly less than 10 wraith attacks, 1 legion attack, on weekends i rarely can play more than an hour because of family needs, oracles i have had maybe 4-5 in the course of the last year, been to nightscream 3 times (once as veno for anothers BH, twice for quests of my own). i've been in TT maybe 5-6 times. i have never been to OHT...how do i do that? BH- i had a friend who was on when it first started, and we did it together, but i havent seen her for at least a week or more, and all told, i think i have had less than 10 BHs of my own. i can handle mobs in there, but not the boss alone, and my son cant afford the repair bill of tanking/no cleric, so no help there. *sigh* we have had fun together...

i would dearly love to be able to pull squads together just like that...but that is my major problem- without that one pet, it seems no one wants to squad with me. which is a total mystery to me-i can literally sit there waving my hand when a call goes out for a squad, get put in, then, 8 times out of 10 they ask me if i have a herc, and i get dropped like a hot rock, even when i tell them i have two high level golems, and other strong pets. the other day, in the first squad i was in in over 2 weeks, i held off the turtles in fb59 after most of the squad had run ahead and aggroed them into attacking. barb and BM, cleric died, but my two worthless golems and i managed to hold them off and whittle down the numbers of them till the cleric and others were rezed. i felt fantastic, and very good that i had shown someone at least that my guys are tough. but that was the only one i have been in for a couple weeks. i dont mind grinding, really. but i wish i could get to go with others on things too....im lonely.

i know you think im a quitter/loser....i honestly do try to put into good use the ideas you guys give me here. i truly dont know why i dont have it work out for me. i keep trying to figure out why, i have asked my husband and son to look at how i do things/spending/time played/mobs worked/etc, and they dont get it either. i have to ask them, with dyscalculia, i have to have help being sure of buying/selling/anything to do with numbers.

my bottom line is just that i want to be able to get to do squads and all with others, and be accepted for what i am, and the pets i have be accepted. i just would like to be able to do what i came to this game to do: play with others here, find neat new pets to play with/have, and explore this beautiful world with friends i meet here.

thats all...b:sad

Don't be sad because of others' closed minds. There are players out there that will accept you. Sometimes you need to prove your worth and other times you can relax. I would choose the relaxing part. Find people who like you for you and don't care about what pet you have. And don't let other's put you down. Keep trying because you'll get it eventually. If everyone listened to the "Status Quo" there would be no fun people.b:cute You just need to look a little bit harder = -.^=

-_- Great now you guys got me posting here again. I was like freakin lv50 or something XD lol

Foxx - Heavens Tear · September 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

that was the only one i have been in for a couple weeks. i dont mind grinding, really. but i wish i could get to go with others on things too....im lonely.

You need to find a better guild.

Telarith - Sanctuary · September 2009

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

dont make things up they dont add to your argument. you -need- a herc to kill those mobs during bean collecting, ive seen them kill wizards in LA who have 2x the pdef of my old golem.

Unless you are referring to delta only, I know you are wrong. We've had a veno do the bean collecting with a magmite, they just aren't as good. Instead of harvesting chests while the herc tanks independantly, they have to sit there healing their pet. This makes them take a stage or so longer to clear the final two rooms. And really, not having a veno in the main battle ground isn't that big a deal anyways with a good group. Maybe stage 6 DW, but even a magmite will finish by then.

Brael - Dreamweaver · September 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok, for the "easy exp"-i have been to prolly less than 10 wraith attacks, 1 legion attack, on weekends i rarely can play more than an hour because of family needs, oracles i have had maybe 4-5 in the course of the last year, been to nightscream 3 times (once as veno for anothers BH, twice for quests of my own). i've been in TT maybe 5-6 times. i have never been to OHT...how do i do that? BH- i had a friend who was on when it first started, and we did it together, but i havent seen her for at least a week or more, and all told, i think i have had less than 10 BHs of my own. i can handle mobs in there, but not the boss alone, and my son cant afford the repair bill of tanking/no cleric, so no help there. *sigh* we have had fun together...

Why not WC for people? 15k or whatever it costs there for a tele is cheaper than the charm ticks. Adding more beyond the cleric could be done too, which would cut repair costs (faster kills mean getting hit less, and less cost from your attacks). If you don't want to use the tele (though it would be cost effective in this case) you could stand around in arch and ask for people for it. People do need BH, and by doing that you end up meeting more people.

Those additional people you meet, you could take to TT, or you could respond to WC's for people in TT, and do your own once you know how the place works. Having a family of 5-6 people though of varied classes already gives you the capability to do TT together.

OHT is opened up from a quest that you get at 70 or 75. It involves killing Ragged Wraith Chief, Yan the Traitor, Silverfrost, the last 2 bosses in FB69, 3 weak bosses with tons of hp in swamp, Vipenalt in TT 1-1, and LoP in TT 1-2.

i would dearly love to be able to pull squads together just like that...but that is my major problem- without that one pet, it seems no one wants to squad with me. which is a total mystery to me-i can literally sit there waving my hand when a call goes out for a squad, get put in, then, 8 times out of 10 they ask me if i have a herc, and i get dropped like a hot rock, even when i tell them i have two high level golems, and other strong pets. the other day, in the first squad i was in in over 2 weeks, i held off the turtles in fb59 after most of the squad had run ahead and aggroed them into attacking. barb and BM, cleric died, but my two worthless golems and i managed to hold them off and whittle down the numbers of them till the cleric and others were rezed. i felt fantastic, and very good that i had shown someone at least that my guys are tough. but that was the only one i have been in for a couple weeks. i dont mind grinding, really. but i wish i could get to go with others on things too....im lonely.

A herc is only necessary if the squad is planning to use it as a boss tank, otherwise there's no reason for it to be required in the squad. If a squad kicks you for it when they don't want it for a boss, they're being dumb.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · September 2009

my son and i are the only ones in our family high enough for a TT- he is 66, and i am 75. my husbands alts are both 41, my cleric alt is 46, and my daughter's veno is 52. our oldest son dropped out, stressed by the game (he is also autistic, but much lower functioning than i or my son who plays are).we have only 3 computers, so three of us can be on at the same time. those times are so much fun...i am so afraid of losing it, because my son (LordDeerskin) is fed up with the commercialism and now the nerfing of barb skills and losing his genie's ToP. he depended on that to fill in when he was grinding or had a less than excellellent cleric while tanking for squads. i know he can tank in TTs...he has tanked TT2-2, he just told me. hm, so i have the tank...if i can talk him into coming back to the game.

it sounds like i have done all the quests for OHT...but who is LOP in TT? Lord of Percussion? i know i've done him more than once. i know i have to do Linus in Nightscream, but i cant get anyone to help me do him. it was my impression he was the end of the quest string...? but if he isnt the last one, where do i go to go to OHT?

i have the two golems that are already in their 70s, plus a bear cub in his mid 30s and leveling. i got a crystaline this morning...is it really that important to go to the time and expense to level him to take the place of one i have now?

im relieved about what you guys say about the herc ....not being able to get it, has been making me depressed and panicky about if i have any hope in going any further in the game...there are so many neat pets that i would love to be able to catch and play!

thank you, and thank you other posters.

with the game in such turmoil,its extremely hard on me emotionally, since this is my main way of socialising and play (outside of playing "Animal Crossing" and "Harvest Moon" on my little nintendo machines, but that is lonely. i have an electronic Rosary now, too, that says the prayers aloud, which is such a help in keeping track, and is calming so much.)

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why not WC for people? 15k or whatever it costs there for a tele is cheaper than the charm ticks. Adding more beyond the cleric could be done too, which would cut repair costs (faster kills mean getting hit less, and less cost from your attacks). If you don't want to use the tele (though it would be cost effective in this case) you could stand around in arch and ask for people for it. People do need BH, and by doing that you end up meeting more people.

Those additional people you meet, you could take to TT, or you could respond to WC's for people in TT, and do your own once you know how the place works. Having a family of 5-6 people though of varied classes already gives you the capability to do TT together.

OHT is opened up from a quest that you get at 70 or 75. It involves killing Ragged Wraith Chief, Yan the Traitor, Silverfrost, the last 2 bosses in FB69, 3 weak bosses with tons of hp in swamp, Vipenalt in TT 1-1, and LoP in TT 1-2.

A herc is only necessary if the squad is planning to use it as a boss tank, otherwise there's no reason for it to be required in the squad. If a squad kicks you for it when they don't want it for a boss, they're being dumb.

Cexylady - Lost City · September 2009

i quit my veno, cuz too many people think that herc is better than magmite, i have to say, i've seen too many veno's with herc's fail, and where i succeeded, learn to use the pet?? instead of more of relying on the pet...

how are you supposed to manage to get a herc without using real life money?? theres a large chance you wont get a herc or a nix for a long while unless you decide to farm mats and sell them...oh wait most dont know that when they actually start...

ya ok hercs have benefits, but put it this way, its almost making you racist or prejudice about veno's withour hercs, "oh ya i dont want a black dude in my party its going to fail" same idea, (im not racist or prejudice its an example)

get over the fact that herc's may be superior, but accept any help that you get...maybe if you had 2 tanks you can share aggro, consider that??? do barbs really have to tank everything, nowadays bm's can tank just about anything a barb does...i've seen it happen and done right the first time better than barbs doing it...as for clerics i soloed an fb19 with a lvl 19 cleric with a lvl 4x archer...so umm do i really need a 4x cleric to heal me?? nah...not necessary...

use what you can at your disposal, not what you favour most...is the point being made...not the fact which one is superior...read between the lines for a change...

thats all i have to say...

Conavar - Heavens Tear · September 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it sounds like i have done all the quests for OHT...but who is LOP in TT? Lord of Percussion? i know i've done him more than once. i know i have to do Linus in Nightscream, but i cant get anyone to help me do him. it was my impression he was the end of the quest string...? but if he isnt the last one, where do i go to go to OHT?

Wraiths ploy (OHT) Quest chain http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=297241

If Im not busy with Faction stuff and Time zones allow, If you find yourself stuck for help, feel free to give me a shout ingame, and I will do what I can.

Umeru - Heavens Tear · September 2009

I personally would like to team up with help or ask help from something anyone regardless ^^. Why do people have to be biased or closed minded of a class? Maybe because they are just weak and looking for someone to use. It is not always about venomancers with hercs... Other things too... and wow this thread is long.

It is about fun and team work and the enjoyment.
If people are only looking to leech, use, or try looking down on, then PWI is not for them.

Hence, I really love this veno, she's the greatest veno ever. b:heart Even though she does use a herc too, but she don't always use hercs, she use magmites and polar bears as well. Also she always invite me to TT runs regardless of level. I am ask to help out even as a lower level and she's twice my level, she helps me out whenever I needed help ^^... so... b:pleased.

I would be glad to interact with other people, it is very pleasing

Celric - Heavens Tear · September 2009

When you are in TW. When facing a veno. Kill the nix or herc and just watch them stand around or run away. Its quite hilarious. Pathetic nowadays. Too dependent. Most are a bunch of noobs. (MOST. Not all. Still some very good venos out there.) Last weekend all I did was kill pets and laugh my **** off.
Useless...
What the cash shop has taught venos is how to suck ****. How to become entirely dependent on these *Overpowered Cash Shop pets* (pwi's 2nd main source of income) Before this CS existed Venos still fought w/ skills. Now it has become horribly pathetic.

SaDiablo - Harshlands · September 2009

veno's can be plenty good with no pet at all. never forget watching angerR (veno)pk Helix (barb) with no pet out at all. angerR didn't even get below 50% health. they were both at basically the same level.

please don't say that veno's without hercs fail just because you may have run into some fail players.

suki3000 · September 2009

Just out of interest how much in real money do people pay for a Herc?

Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

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