TW Discussion - Twilight Temple

Harima Kenji - Sanctuary wrote: »

Surprised... This is the first time sin said something completely true. I cant remember how many spies LG planted in Nef at that time.. They thought Nef is going down and pulled their spies out. We managed to survive the attacks from the whole server. It was tough b:cry BTW, I believe LG was first to use spy tactics.

Thats not true Harima, Nishtara sent spies to NWO to SS there roster before attacking them.... thats was before nef and leg ever faught each other.

Evga - Sanctuary wrote: »

since i'm not playing anymore, i'll admit it, i'm the spy, i feed leg position of our cat in every tw b:chuckle and also i'm the one who is supplying them with ironguard b:victory AND you know what? i wasn't even paid to do all that b:angry

and now, i'm going to send a huge **** bill to leg, they must get me a warsoul weapon with all the hard work i put to helping them b:laugh

Evga stick to getting drunk and killing frogs not lying on the forums.

Less Talking, More Killing! To Warrrrr!!!!!

For Honor and Glory!

Sinangel - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm rather disappointed that legendary would fall for such an obvious taunt. I mean come on...Just how much trust do you guys actually put in your members?
There was no spy, but the mere mention of a possible leak, drove you guys to mass world chatting? I mean when we thought we had a spy, we thought it out, and dealt with it. All I was trying to do is as I stated, show who Legendary really is. In short, you guys absolutely do not trust your members. How very pitiful...

I found it suspicious that you would talk about being a spy openly on TS not even on an Officer Channel. The real spies I used to know never said a word publicly, anywhere, about it, but still happily passed me the so called "Attack Strategy". I always took it with a grain of salt, as anyone sneaky enough to lie to another faction might as well lie to me. That is why I don't think spies matter too much, aside from stirring up drama.

But still, 1K Camera isn't much trust either and I think you should revise that.

LOL....Legendary and Nefarious acting as if they were North Korea and United States, pointing fingers and screaming "ESPIONAGE"

You two are really showing how pathetic you have become. Neither of you deserve the land you have.

Shockwave was the first to employ spies, they sent alts into Legendary weeks before the first PvP TWs started on the game. Legendary avoided using the same tactics at the time, being more honorable at the time.

Vahnhalia - Sanctuary wrote: »

Evga stick to getting drunk and killing frogs not lying on the forums.

like i'll actually do anything for free.... the word free just doesn't exist in my vocabulary b:victory

K every1 stop ,it's enough. It doesn't matter anymore,nothing TW related does; no point in anymore arguments among ourselves,well yourselves,I'm out.

Nefarious have a bad reputation for a long time.. It won't change at all... Ppl must hate someone, and the target is Nef.... At least sometimes I'm glad for listening ppl saying: "Nefarious has good ppl, I was wrong when i thought was a bad guild". This worth more than anything.

And I admit: I was the one of the general ppl who talks bad things about Nef without even know how the guild works. My bad...

b:surrender

dorm wrote: »

1K camera isn't due to paranoia, it is due to evidence. There is a different, a very clear, very defined difference.

I never said it was due to paranoia, just that it shows mistrust. And if there is such evidence then I would like to see it. And there is no need to have this discussion here, you can post it on the Nefarious forums.

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I never said it was due to paranoia, just that it shows mistrust. And if there is such evidence then I would like to see it. And there is no need to have this discussion here, you can post it on the Nefarious forums.

You trust ppl when they show they can be trusted, when they show they are loyal.
In that case, when you see in the AH 50 iron guard to sell, that can be crafted ONLY by nefarious members, explain to me, how can you turst? especialy when you explain to them the importance of it ..

Are you gonna trust someone that stab you from behind?? If its the case, you an idiot

VoidMainVoid - Sanctuary wrote: »

you an idiot

For sure one of the better quotes I've read in my time here.

Everyone wanted to see a change of color well here it is. Next week the masses will tear into nef soil. People may be afraid of Nef but they'll want land and with this many attacks I don't think Leg can handle it. I like the Leg members I've met, I had a lolz experience with a Nef member that claims leg hacks and cheats. The leg member I like most was cool about em so hope you guys hang in there, but the change is coming. Sad it had to be from such a huge leaving of people and bs rise to power of some players. Skills>gear only goes so far.

...so far it looks like Legendary isnt as dead as the rumors. I predict they will only lose Archosaur this week.

VoidMainVoid - Sanctuary wrote: »

You trust people when they show they can be trusted, when they show they are loyal.

In that case, when you see in the AH 50 Ironguards for sale, that can be crafted ONLY by Nefarious Members, explain to me, how can you trust them? Especially, when you explain to them the importance of it...

Are you gonna trust someone that stabs you from behind?? If its the case, you're an idiot

First off, please have some respect. I don't go around calling or implying that people are idiots just because they disagree with me.

For clarity, this was the order of posts:

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

But still, 1K Camera isn't much trust either and I think you should revise that.

dorm wrote: »

1K camera isn't due to paranoia, it is due to evidence. There is a difference, a very clear, very defined difference.

To which I agree, there is a difference between mistrust and paranoia (Defined below).

But, how does this then not show mistrust, as I claimed? (I mean you [Void] openly admit that you can not trust faction members with the Ironguards as a default. That such trust must be earned, which all means there is in fact, mistrust [n. : a lack of confidence : Distrust :])

I responded, clarifying my position (not paranoia, just a lack of trust), and requesting evidence of spies, or disloyal members.

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I never said it was due to paranoia, just that it shows mistrust. And if there is such evidence then I would like to see it.

Then the evidence that I was provided is that there have been Ironguards being sold in the Auction House (Evidence that I was aware of).

VoidMainVoid - Sanctuary wrote: »

In that case, when you see in the AH 50 Ironguards for sale, that can be crafted ONLY by Nefarious Members, explain to me, how can you trust them? Especially, when you explain to them the importance of it...

Well, I have a few explanations for it:

1. The same Ironguards are circulated in the AH over and over to cause drama. (Mission Accomplished) After all, if someone in our faction was profiting from selling these why would they ever put them into the AH, why not go straight to their friends from rival factions and avoid all detection? If I was selling these off for personal gain, you can bet I would never let myself get caught like this.

2. As Akasera says, they actually farm these from the Mini World Bosses (Drop rates below).

3. Someone you "Trust" is crafting them anyways and distributing.

4. Regular members are blatantly disregarding the request and violating the trust of the faction.

It is probably a combination of the four, after all, have you looked at the AH lately (Pre-Update I should say)? Ironguards are still common after the "Camera". But then again, that only proves one thing; that the camera fails at keeping Ironguards off the AH.

The evidence you present (The existence of Ironguards in the AH) is circumstantial, and the policy does in fact show mistrust, because out of the possibilities I have provided, the one that was chosen as most likely, and probable enough to warrant a privation on the freedoms of the members, was the fourth. So yes, it is as I stated long long ago, that the default stance regarding these items and regular members is towards mistrust (But you admit it yourself, so I don't know what we are arguing about).

The only arguments still worth having, are; is the lack of trust so deep, are the items so valuable, and the evidence so damning, as to really need to monitor member's actions "24/7"?

In my opinion: no.





Paranoia: Paranoia is an unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others, sometimes reaching delusional proportions."

***Keep this in mind, I never claimed that there were no reasons to be suspicious. Or that mistrust was unwarranted, simply that it was there, and that the evidence for it may be too immaterial to be making such rash decisions as trying to prevent faction members from using the apothecary.***






And here are the Real % Drops of Ironguards from Mini World Bosses, and thanks to Akasera for his post on Mini-WBs ( http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=414402 ):

Deiciter Black: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/20505 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Deathrenderer: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/20516 - ~40% Real Drop Rate
Hum-Hum: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20514 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Drake of Nicolas: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20515 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Stiren General: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20517 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Strong: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20512 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Sutrixx: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20507 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Deiciter White: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/20506 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Snow Bear: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20508 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Desire of the End: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20509 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Earthsharp Clawzard: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20510 ~40% Real Drop Rate
Razorteeth Tyrant: http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/20511 ~40% Real Drop Rate