Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.

bobzilla21 wrote: »

You don't have to, just let your pet chase while you make a sandwich.

Can you make me one in 15 seconds b:sweat I'd feel slow

Barb - "Need Lure for Zhen!"

BM - "Need Lure for Zhen!"

Archer - "Need DD for Zhen!"

Wizard - "Need DD for Zhen!"

Cleric - "Need BB for Zhen!"

Veno - "Get the F*** away from our Zhen pty noone wants you around!"

In case you didnt get the point, every other class is welcome in Zhen parties and as such can also level faster at 60+ then Venos.

Veno Advantage = soloing.

Every other job advantage = grouping.

chipsing1234 wrote: »

We forgot something. Venos are the only classes who can catch pets, and consequently sell them for profit.

Very few make any money at catching pets,normal pets are worth nothing,the rares spawn only once in 12 hour periods and are monopolized by a few individuals.

Even all class aren't that easy to sell for a good profit.

Oh and agree with post above me ^^

bolvork wrote: »

I just don't understand the need for ppl to continue to make threads like this every few days. It is what it is.

When there is 10 people who are average/lazy/unimaginative (you get the picture) complain about something. There is 1 or 2 people who have taken the time to find ways to defeat, what the others couldn't or wouldn't take the time to figure out. Does this make those 10 people right, and get a class nerfed? Thus dumbing down a game to be better played by the lazy. When games start to dumb themselves down. It also makes it become more boring, and eventually is the beginning of the end for games.

I'd rather play games that gave me challenges. Making me think, work on my skills, and forcing me to find ways to defeat the unbeatable. Now thats fun.

While there is endless rants about how Venos, and Phoenix's should be nerfed, there is also a few who brag about how they 1-2 hit Venos all the time, and how easy it is to kill a veno's pet, thus making the veno run away or easy to kill. But those are talented people who are the very few, in a sea of many lazy/unskilled/quick to whine players.

Do the crys of many jealous or crappy players make what they say right? I think not.

This happens in every game that has a pet based class, for some reason it always gets singled out as an object of jealousy, it starts from the moment people build their first char and sees someone else playing the pet based class....."Hey how can I get a pet????".... "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CANT?!?!?! OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

This happens in every game that has a pet based class, for some reason it always gets singled out as an object of jealousy, it starts from the moment people build their first char and sees someone else playing the pet based class....."Hey how can I get a pet????".... "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CANT?!?!?! OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I just think many of the non-veno complainers would like to have a fighting friend... a sidekick... like a Robin to a Batman. Haven't u noticed how they all got an all class pet? I even saw people asking in the forum for the all classes to be able to fight... They call a class overpowered because it's not one but two individuals and they're only one... well then, make a veno and you'll be two now... or get an ingame wife and have her follow you all around as if she were your pet [?]

b:shutup

Summary
pro:
-venos can kill single targets that other classes cant
-venos can lure
-making money (ability to do TT runs alone and sell mats, pet taming and selling)
-two halves that move about, a pet alone or a veno alone is easy to kill but facing both at once needs planning.
-bleed skill bug (applies to arcane users only really, heavy armor laughs at it)
-very fast speed at lvl 89(provided you have the skillbook).

con:
-very hard to successfuly handle multiple mobs (pet keeps losing agro and you need to manualy cycle it through the mobs one at a time between aoe spells)
-lack of disabling skills like stun/sleep/seal.
-switching between fox/human mode takes some time and is a very obvious clue to your opponent what your next move is - easy to counter with a stun or 2.
-no zhen
-to many of them on server, hard to find parties for fb's etc.
-everyone has imaginary perceptions of the class and beleive anything they read on forums, thus opinions are very biased without actual proof.

---

Self defence
-Bramble hood is stupid and easily avoidable in pvp, if you keep hitting a veno while they have it on you deserve to die. Its used when you lure crazy bosses and you know ur going to take one hit before the tank gets to it.
-Elves have wing barrier
-Bm's have Pdef/Mdef sutra and hp regen skill.
-wizzies have a def skill but even +100% pdef is useless if you only have 500 to ebgin with. Mabe light armor wiz could benefit from this.

Hp regen
-BM have better HP regen skills than any other class, except a priest of course.
-Venos have one skill that can heal their HP by up to 50% with a stupid long channeling time, they also have a skill that can swop mana and hp pools by %. Meaning if u have 50%hp and 100% mana u'll have 100%hp and 50% mp after the swop. This effectively gives the veno 1.5x hp but destroys mana pool - exactly like the wing barrier skill elves have.
-wizzies have a heal (with a 70 hour channel time, good for after a fight NOT during)
-priests obviousley lots of heals
-archers: shafted in this dept.

Stun issues
-Bm's have 40 billion stun skills and can perpetually stunlock any class that doesnt have apo items or a skill that makes them immune to stuns.
-venos dont just "get" immunity to movement impairing effects, you need to get the skillbook for it first.
-BM doesnt even need the skillbook at lvl89, Will of the Bodhisatva: Focus vigor underfoot to move as graceful as a dragon in flight. Increases movement speed by 100%, increases evasion while moving by 100%, grants immunity to stun and freeze. Lasts 15 seconds. (kicks bramble hood's **** 6:luv)
-Archer, Aim low: Focus all of your energy to aim a single shot inflicting base physical damage plus 3469.5 and stuning the target for 8.0 seconds.
-Wiz has 2 "stun" skills: Force of Will and Mountain's Seize and a sleep skill: Soporific Whisper
-Veno: ONE stun skill is only for 2 seconds and has a chance to fail and one seal skil that req 2 spark and massive long cast time and random chance to fail.
-Priests have a seal and sleep skill.

Fast leveling
-BM: levels the fastest of all classes solo (aoe skils + stunlock + hp regen)
-Wiz: Zhen, fast killer on single mobs. Best elemental resistances of all clases so pick your targets right.
-Priests suck at soloing but always welcome in aoe/zhen
-Archers, safe soloing(fast killers) and zhen. best class for air mobs.
-Barb: pretty good at multiple mobs due to high pdef a few stun skills and aoe. always good in zhen.
-veno: can kill single targets much higher level, can kill up to 4 mobs with a normal golem pet at once(requires lots of work) Not very welcome in zhen, hercules is a good lurer because of bramble but not everyone can fork out 20mil for a pet.

bolvork wrote: »

The most funny thing about all these whiners is this. If they are so jealous of those who play venos. And if they are so unhappy with their class. Then go roll a veno themselves. Or better yet, do it on one of these new servers. And maybe we can have a few less ppl doing the QQ.

Nobody is forcing anyone to play the class they are playing. Believe it or not, there is some people who love playing a Wizzy, or an Archer, or BM.

It's my theory threads like this veno ****, is made by ppl who fall in one of these two catgories.

1) They pvp and got wtfpwnd by a veno who had a nix.

Trust me veno's get killed too, but we aren't QQ.

and . . .

2) They had a hard time soloing, or finding help killing some boss, and a veno came and made it look easy with a pet that cost them close to $200.

News Flash: The person paid almost $200 for the darn pet, it better be something special!

If you still wanna QQ about venos, as I said above. Roll one on one of the new servers that are coming our way, become one of the highest levels on the server. And if you feel your arguements really are valid (which they aren't) then you should be happy which being so over powered.

Nobody is forcing anyone to play a class they don't want to play. Deal with it!

The funniest part is that the OP tries to present himself as an "well informed unbiased observer", even going so far as to call this thread "the OFFICIAL end of this argument".... yet his bias is quite visable to anyone with even 5% of a brain.b:shocked

....any venos feeding this thread are just giving him more ammunition with which to attempt to "shoot us down with"..... a classic example of a trolling thread.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Venomancers
Advantages:
- Pets enable them to solo bosses, instances, mobs, etc. FAR earlier than any other class (some classes can't ever solo some things)
- HP and MP-recharging skills
- Stun skill that does not miss, does not use chi
- Phoenix = gigantic advantage in PVP that no other class has
- Bramble Hood basically forces PVP opponents to run or die (does use of 2 sparks negate this? the debate continues)

Disadvantages:
- Squishy - however, this can be negated in PVE by simply using a pet
- Pets vulnerable to debuffs

Here's some tinder for the fire: ONLY VENOMANCERS can solo TT at 70, and tank, both with relative ease. That's not fair. Most other classes would be utterly demolished trying to attempt such a thing. Archers and wizards might as well consider it impossible. The advantage given to venomancers makes them overpowered. PROVE ME WRONG.

Venomancers can solo bosses provided their levels are MUCH higher than the boss. Barb+cleric can do it in the same level range. TT takes quite a long time in squad mode, and pretty much can only solo squade mode if we have a 20mil-uhm, I mean .. hercules pet. Golems can't cut it.

If you're an arcane build veno in pvp, no matter what pet you have you're still squishy, even if it's a pheonix. The other classes should note they shouldnt be attacking the pet, but the one-shot veno instead.

Please use correct info only. Stun skill does miss, and can miss alot. It also only stuns for 2 seconds, nothing compared to a blademaster's stun or cleric's "sleep skill". 95% chance for stun at level 10 (this skill is very costly)
only 50% chance to stun at level 1.

Bramble hood only lasts for 15 seconds. It only reflects 200% [Melee] damage too. Dont hit them, dont die. Not to mention gaining two sparks for it can be quite hard in pvp. Phoenix only sucks now. Once everyone is 90+ with 6k HP+ it wont hurt much at all. I could also suggest ways to survive them now but not like anyone would listen

No, in my opinion venos arent overpowered at all. Maybe if we had an aoe pet we would be. Consider that the whole pet deal is because they're designed to be the best [PVE SOLO CLASS]. So whining that we're able to tank/solo bosses is completly useless and has no credit to the argument at all. It's like complaining that clerics can heal tanks through bosses.

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Okay let's see clerics...
pros
1. self heal, enough said.
2. self purify, they own poison mobs.
3. buffs
4. great cyclone + plume shot i heard is highest Dps.
5. They own flying, casting mobs.
6. A super long sleep.

cons
1. Hard to level.
2. A bit squishy.
3. plume shield drains mana quickly.
4. many skills are buffs or group benefits; have less attacks than other classes.

Actually cyclone+ plume stops being the best dps after lv50ish
so cyclone+wielded thunder + cyclone + plume shot and repeat starts to kick in.
If you go on lving wielded thunder 3+ that is.
And are easy to lv up, cause you can grind on flying/magic mobs much higher lv then you

Why make threads like this?? Any intellegent person will know it's gonna get venos to show their claws.

um...venos paying $200 thinking they deserve to be able to solo tt70 need to put that into perspective: do note that no amount of money will allow an archer to solo tt70, for example. correct me if im wrong.

not necessarily saying venos r op, and definitely not that every other class should be able to solo like that...each class does have their advantages and roles.
if u want to discuss the balance of each class, consider discussing them w/ equipment of similar values (like if venos have a herc, then what does everyone else get for $200?)

Either that or they return flesh ream's damage back to 75% reduction in pvp b:scorn

Special bows for archers maybe, a fantastic staff for wizzies that speeds up their casting rate of fire. Maybe a weapon for clerics that regen power at a great rate. A shield for Barbs to help tanking even more that they can put in a charm slot or something.

Each class has pros and cons. To be blunt here, this game is basically built on some chinese mythology where the Werefox and Barb are the center characters. The other classes were added mostly just to add variety for the game. Veno's are a pet class. Pet classes are supposed to be for those people who choose to solo most of the time. They are going to be stronger if nothing else just because thats what the class is supposed to be by definition. In other games its the same thing. In EQ2 necro's and Conjy's are just as powerful there. The pvp in that game is horrid compared to this one. But the two pet classes there can also do better than most all of the other classes. People roll those kind of characters for this reason. People who don't roll a class like this, had/have every right to do so themselves. If they choose not to, I can't feel sorry for them. And standing on a soapbox complaining about how a class should be nerfed, just because you rolled something else, is utterly ridiculous. If your jealous of veno's and want to do what veno's do, roll one. Nobody is stopping you.

As far as I'm concerned I just put an end to this, as was suggested in the OP.

End of story.

PS: Lets maybe make some more original threads about maybe how hard it is for some classes to kill a well played Cleric, or maybe why archers should be nerfed because they can kill some other classes in just a couple hits. Each class is what it is, and what it was intended to be. If your upset about your class once you reach a higher level. Don't come here and complain about others. Roll what it is you really want, and be men about it.

Just my 2 cents.

Just a few hard facts to throw some water on this, I must admit stupid debate we keep seeming to have here on these forums every few days. (The threads such as this, are more numerous than any other on these forums)

The rankings off of the Lost City PVP server.

Top 10 killers

1 is an archer
2 veno
3 wizzy
4 veno
5 archer
6 archer
7 archer
8 wizzy
9 cleric
10 wizzy

See any pattern yet? If your blind, and/or can't count, here is even more facts from our beloved PVP server rankings. Cuz I did some counting.

The Lost City top 50 killers (A breakdown per class of who is in the top 50)

veno's have 9 in the top 50
archers have 20!!!!
wizzy's have 6
clerics have 5, and I thought this number would be higher to be honest.
barbs have just 5
and BM also have just 5 in the top 50 list.

Yet day after day all I ever see on here are threads about how veno's just are so over powered, and have all the advantages in everything. PVP is the ultimate test. So unless people are just jealous some venos tank some zones with expensive pets. There shouldn't be any more QQ about this. And one of the above posters were right in saying if they want to do what a veno can, roll one, and then pay about $180 for a herc so you too can farm a tough zone.

bolvork wrote: »

Special bows for archers maybe, a fantastic staff for wizzies that speeds up their casting rate of fire. Maybe a weapon for clerics that regen power at a great rate. A shield for Barbs to help tanking even more that they can put in a charm slot or something.

Each class has pros and cons. To be blunt here, this game is basically built on some chinese mythology where the Werefox and Barb are the center characters. The other classes were added mostly just to add variety for the game. Veno's are a pet class. Pet classes are supposed to be for those people who choose to solo most of the time. They are going to be stronger if nothing else just because thats what the class is supposed to be by definition. In other games its the same thing. In EQ2 necro's and Conjy's are just as powerful there. The pvp in that game is horrid compared to this one. But the two pet classes there can also do better than most all of the other classes. People roll those kind of characters for this reason. People who don't roll a class like this, had/have every right to do so themselves. If they choose not to, I can't feel sorry for them. And standing on a soapbox complaining about how a class should be nerfed, just because you rolled something else, is utterly ridiculous. If your jealous of veno's and want to do what veno's do, roll one. Nobody is stopping you.

As far as I'm concerned I just put an end to this, as was suggested in the OP.

End of story.

PS: Lets maybe make some more original threads about maybe how hard it is for some classes to kill a well played Cleric, or maybe why archers should be nerfed because they can kill some other classes in just a couple hits. Each class is what it is, and what it was intended to be. If your upset about your class once you reach a higher level. Don't come here and complain about others. Roll what it is you really want, and be men about it.

Just my 2 cents.

Okay, as many thread as there are about this, there are also as many people saying "get over it" such as the one I'm quoting. Roll the veno because you're jealous of her abilities? It's as if all these topics are about "jealousy" or something. As if the game is actually perfectly balanced and we're just complaining about venos. No, it's not. Venos have access to things by themselves no one else does. No one else can solo TT, solo farm apocalypse pages, solo world bosses. Venos are already a great soloing class, especially good at PvE. But to this extent? To be able to "farm" TT?? TT is meant for squads, mind you. TT equips are meant to be good, and not easy to obtain. What is this ability to farm it solo and sell the excess mats for profit?
People roll different classes because they like the playing style. Blademasters like to wield blades and different weapons. Archers like to keep their distance while dishing out damage. Wizards usually simply like to be mages. There are a variety of classes to keep the game interesting and suit peoples' styles. But allowing one single class, who already has the game incredibly easy, to be able to further access this power of having a herc or phoenix? Herc being a cash maker, phoenix making them all but invincible in PvP (at least 1v1)? Imbalances are imbalances, you can't just say to pick another class.