Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Also, with heavy venos, they can gain up to 120% physical attack as a passive skill.

Considering that they're magical-based, I don't know if that's a strong-enough pro to be really considered a significant advantage above the rest.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

Aelitaz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why u haven't write anything to barbarians and clerics?b:question

Give me some stuff! You're more familiar with clerics than I am, I assume.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Venomancer pets are severely weak to debuffs. Whereas a cleric can simply cast purify on a barb whoever the tank is, a venos pet cannot be cured of the status problem while tanking. Also, the pet cannot be buffed by clerics, they are not effected by BB making certain bosses (general wurlord for example) impossible to tank.

chipsing1234

Okay let's see clerics...
pros
1. self heal, enough said.
2. self purify, they own poison mobs.
3. buffs
4. great cyclone + plume shot i heard is highest Dps.
5. They own flying, casting mobs.
6. A super long sleep.

cons
1. Hard to level.
2. A bit squishy.
3. plume shield drains mana quickly.
4. many skills are buffs or group benefits; have less attacks than other classes.

Lessie - Lost City

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Only for 15 seconds? That is a long time, and essentially makes melee attackers unable to do anything but get pummeled.

Unless the melee has never seen it(its channeling animation is unique, you can run as soon as you see the channeling) or lacks basics intelect, they will drop from the sky or stun & run for 15 seconds.
I have yet to see a bm or barb stupid enough to hit me or stay close to me when i have 200% reflect and 75% reduction, they simply avoid me that's why I dont use it much I'd rather dual spark for dmg.

chipsing1234

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

Unless the melee has never seen it or lacks basics intelect, they will drop from the sky or stun & run for 15 seconds.
I have yet to see a bm or barb stupid enough to hit me or stay close to me when i have 200% reflect and 75% reduction, they simply avoid me that's why I dont use it much I'd rather dual spark for dmg.

Thing is, you have ranged, and they don't. When they run from you, you can get one attack off. When they come back, you get another. Then normal dueling begins. You're free to kite after that. This isn't to mention nothing can outrun a Kowlin.

Lessie - Lost City

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Thing is, you have ranged, and they don't. When they run from you, you can get one attack off. When they come back, you get another. This isn't to mention nothing can outrun a Kowlin.

The casting animation is unique, giving you like ~5 seconds to run before I can do anything.
Barbs in tiger form outrun me.
BMs stun and run or simply outrun.
If any of them got to worry about kowling attack then they should reroll.

I'm assuming you got a decent reaction time.

chipsing1234

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

The casting animation is unique, giving you like ~5 seconds to run before I can do anything.
Barbs in tiger form outrun me.
BMs stun and run or simply outrun.
If any of them got to worry about kowling attack then they should reroll.

I'm assuming you got a decent reaction time.

Lol, you took out part of my post?
Well that's great, you got a move that forces any melee class to flee from you. Wizzes and archers as well since ALL damage is reduced 75%, and your pet can go after them. Actually, wouldn't that include all classes, besides a veno who uses hood back?

sealed

I'll tell you how to be successful on a new server.
By ignoring this THREAD!!!

Lessie - Lost City

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Lol, you took out part of my post?
Well that's great, you got a move that forces any melee class to flee from you. Wizzes and archers as well since ALL damage is reduced 75%, and your pet can go after them. Actually, wouldn't that include all classes, besides a veno who uses hood back?

Nop you edited it after I quote, small edits dont show post has been edited bla bla bla

Wizies and archers dont have to worry they already got distance.
Basically I use my dual spark to get 15 secs of survivability and you'll simply avoid me, geat way to waste 2 sparks.

Remember the animation is unique btw, you got 5 secs to run before the 15 "overpowered" seconds start.
I have yet to see someone bad enough to stay fighting when I use hood, I havent used it in a while coz every1 knows the animation and avoids me so it's a **** waste.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Barbarians have a buff that increases max hp and a max attack buff. They run very fast in tiger form. They have more hp than any other class. They are very good at canceling channeling.

chipsing1234

Barbs:
pros
1. Two forms, tiger and normal.
2. High hp. Really high hp.
3. Skill to up hp regen rate. 100 hp/sec while meditating, anyone?
4. Skill to up accuracy, up attack, lower opp phys def (up to 50%!).
5. Spell cancel with low cooldown (upgraded). With this you can cancel every mob's spell, every time they start to cast.
6. Fast, 4 second stun (1.1 sec casting time!).

cons
1. Sucky accuracy
2. Low dmg output at first, a pain to lvl.

chipsing1234

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

Nop you edited it after I quote, small edits dont show post has been edited bla bla bla

Wizies and archers dont have to worry they already got distance.
Basically I use my dual spark to get 15 secs of survivability and you'll simply avoid me, geat way to waste 2 sparks.

Remember the animation is unique btw, you got 5 secs to run before the 15 "overpowered" seconds start.
I have yet to see someone bad enough to stay fighting when I use hood, I havent used it in a while coz every1 knows the animation and avoids me so it's a **** waste.

so basically...
15 seconds for the enemy to get away. They can forget about fighting you. I sense something's wrong with that picture...
Plus, venos aren't very chi dependent anyway. And you're still not addressing all the free attacks you get while they try to approach you again. And, while you're casting, your pet is free to do anything...to the opponent.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

You missed the barb and cleric, so I'll fill in the barb (can't do cleric) for you:

Barbarian:
Advantages:
-High hp and phys defence, and high speed making it easy to avoid dying in any solo situation.
- Alacrity of the beast cancels out channeling, making most magical mobs not all that hard to kill.
- The only class that can keep aggro, even if outdamaged.

Disatvantages:
- Low damage and accuracy, making them slow to lvl.
- Really high repair bills to prevent the armor from breaking, and making good money management very important to keep up with the skills.

I also don't agree on the veno part.
- Bramble hood isn't an overpowered skill. It requires 2 spark and lasts 15 sec, it's ment to survive while reviving a pet, or while summoning an other.
- The fox isn't underpowered (I play a foxveno also). There are 2 choises on a fox, either max out your defence and loose some attack power (latest heavy armor), or keep the attack power and loose some defence (light armor or heavy armor under your lvl). In both cases you really underestimate the importance of melee mastery (goes till +120%!!!) and you forget the high attackrate of the magic weapons (1.25 is really fast). However, you can make a foxveno that is more party based then a mageveno will ever be, thanks to de debuff skills. The main reason (in my opion) that makes that most players go for humanoide veno is because it isn't very intuitive to have a mag weapon, with melee attack and heavy/light armor, but no vit. This makes a fox' build really hard for someone who just started the game.

Lessie - Lost City

chipsing1234 wrote: »

so basically...
15 seconds for the enemy to get away. They can forget about fighting you. I sense something's wrong with that picture...
Plus, venos aren't very chi dependent anyway. And you're still not addressing all the free attacks you get while they try to approach you again. And, while you're casting, your pet is free to do anything...to the opponent.

BMs stun asap, so no worries AT ALL for them.
oh my, kowling will hit the barb OMG I'M SO WINNING !

Once again, I have yet to see a decent BM/barb lose because of this skill, that's why I dont use it.

chipsing1234

We forgot something. Venos are the only classes who can catch pets, and consequently sell them for profit.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

Due to how Bramble Hood can easily be avoided, and the fact that it uses two sparks (thus allowing for the possibility of completely wasting those sparks in PVP), I'm going to take it off the list.

It might get put back on depending on if it's a significant advantage in PVE, though (PVE is where so much of the whole "venos are overpowered" argument stems from anyway).

chipsing1234

Another thing. Pet bleed is not reduced in PvP. Everyone else's damage is reduced by 1/4, but bleed does normal damage. This means if it does 2k dmg over time to a normal mob, it does the same to a character. Why it's not reduced, I don't know why..

Lessie - Lost City

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Due to how Bramble Hood can easily be avoided, and the fact that it uses two sparks (thus allowing for the possibility of completely wasting those sparks in PVP), I'm going to take it off the list.

It might get put back on depending on if it's a significant advantage in PVE, though (PVE is where so much of the whole "venos are overpowered" argument stems from anyway).

It's no big advantage in PVE, your pet is taking the dmg(or it should be)why do we want 15 secs of complete safety? specially if they cost 2 sparks

chipsing1234

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Due to how Bramble Hood can easily be avoided, and the fact that it uses two sparks (thus allowing for the possibility of completely wasting those sparks in PVP), I'm going to take it off the list.

It might get put back on depending on if it's a significant advantage in PVE, though (PVE is where so much of the whole "venos are overpowered" argument stems from anyway).

I'd say due to the fact bramble hood forces the opponent to flee is bad enough. No other class has that defensive ability. If you're in pk mode, it'll save your life.
Demon venos are immune to movement debuffs. Meaning demon venos with phoenix, kiting, are nigh on unbeatable.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

BMs stun asap, so no worries AT ALL for them.
oh my, kowling will hit the barb OMG I'M SO WINNING !

Once again, I have yet to see a decent BM/barb lose because of this skill, that's why I dont use it.

Considering that only other venos will buy them, I'm not sure if this is a big-enough advantage. It could balance with how pets require money for upgrading skills and whatnot.

chipsing1234

Technically, pets skill don't need to be upgraded at all. Their physical attack goes up with lvling, and the veno deals the main damage anyway.
I don't see why you're taking off hood when it's one of the most criticized imba skills in the game.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Technically, pets skill don't need to be upgraded at all. Their physical attack goes up with lvling, and the veno deals the main damage anyway.
I don't see why you're taking off hood when it's one of the most criticized imba skills in the game.

I'll put it back on, albeit revised.

Lessie - Lost City

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'll put it back on, albeit revised.

oh my, enemy will avoid you for 15 secs and you wasted your dual spark, instant win !!

No reason to be on the list, 5 months and i've yet to see any1 decent lose to it.
Dual spark for way more dmg or waste both to be safe for 15 secs hm.... what a hard choice uh

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

oh my, enemy will avoid you for 15 secs and you wasted your dual spark, instant win !!

No reason to be on the list, 5 months and i've yet to see any1 decent lose to it.
Dual spark for way more dmg or waste both to be safe for 15 secs hm.... what a hard choice uh

If a veno is getting spiked by an archer, this skill could save a veno's life, and force the archer to stop the crit-spree and run. That's just one possible application.

I need to go to bed (getting up in five hours), so everyone can continue or let the thread die for now. I'll revive it tomorrow.

Lessie - Lost City

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If a veno is getting spiked by an archer, this skill could save a veno's life, and force the archer to stop the crit-spree and run. That's just one possible application.

I need to go to bed (getting up in five hours), so everyone can continue or let the thread die for now. I'll revive it tomorrow.

Unique channeling animation, as soon as you see it stun.
I still dont see any reason for this skill to be OP, besides saving your **** from random ganking assuming you dont get stunned (very low chance).

chipsing1234

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

Unique animation, as soon as you see it stun.
I still dont see any reason for this skill to be OP, besides saving your **** from random ganking assuming you dont get stunned (very low chance).

According to ecatomb, this skill has 2 second cast. So you're assuming your opponent who hopefully isn't in a mid-cast happens to see your animation and immediately stuns, which probably won't land before you finish your 2 seconds. Most I'd say don't have that precise timing. There I checked it. Archer total stun cast time: 1.6 seconds. Reaction time of .4 seconds? Not happening.
What about a bm who is midway attacking you? Deal 500 to themselves, you cast a spell and they escape with half their hp. If they've used up their sprint to rush up to you, theyre screwed.

Lessie - Lost City

chipsing1234 wrote: »

According to ecatomb, this skill has 2 second cast. So you're assuming your opponent who hopefully isn't in a mid-cast happens to see your animation and immediately stuns, which probably won't land before you finish your 2 seconds. Most I'd say don't have that precise timing. There I checked it. Archer total stun cast time: 1.6 seconds. Reaction time of .4 seconds? Not happening.
What about a bm who is midway attacking you? Deal 500 to themselves, you cast a spell and they escape with half their hp. If they've used up their sprint to rush up to you, theyre screwed.

And about 2 seconds where the veno rises it's hand and the bramble guard green thingies show around your char before you may attack.
Yes I assume anyone can avoid that, BM stun mayb I dont even finish the cast lol, barb tiger form and bye bye, others already got distance so no worries for them.
on the midway air thing, while it's an extremely convenient case for you if they r mid air omg drop and run? super hard.
If they used sprint to rush up to me, stun and run? another uber hard one.
If we both got full chi I waste mine to be unkillable for 15 seconds you simply avoid me yay no more chi for me, you use yours to kick my ****. Totally OP.

Still waiting for a reason for this skill to be OP.

bobzilla21

because running around in circles for 15 seconds will bore people and make them fall asleep, therefore causing them to lose the match?
You never know...b:scorn

Lessie - Lost City

bobzilla21 wrote: »

because running around in circles for 15 seconds will bore people and make them fall asleep, therefore causing them to lose the match?
You never know...b:scorn

Well chasing them for 15 seconds doesnt sound better to me b:surrender