NEW SKILS WITH GLITHES MARCH 2019

I don't know why BM ever thought they deserved a near perfect stun lock that barely costs chi. Mmmm. Should I ask devs to make my SoG cost 0 chi too?! What do you think of that eh.

Seekers certainly don't have too many CC skills as implied lol..

When was the last time the forum warrior bms actually did mass pvp?

If you have a TW, where your side has like... 1 bm. Yeah that bm is gonna die a lot. But even IF HE DOES die (and he will), a bm always hits above their weight in mass pvp. With proper positioning for their dive in, they cc many people, debuff them, and probably lead to several deaths through their dmg or others. Then you factor in that a bm has genie, apoth, leaps on low cd, generally super high hp and defenses, and weapon procs, and most endgame bms do not die after their first dive in, or even the 2nd. And did I mention their damage can spike to the highest in the game when combining high base attack + hf + ulti + zerk + crit? Holy **** sht, x16 dmg boost.

Now, realize what factions actually have: multiple bms. One bm runs in, stuns, leaps back. The NEXT bm runs and picks up right where the previous bm left off... then he retreats... then the NEXT NEXT bm runs in... you get the idea. These rolling waves of bm push back the enemy lines, with further assists from venos and, of course, the notorious stormbringers.

Bms have a HUGE impact when they are in numbers. They are all relative tanky, they all has massive cc, and they have high mobility. Compared to many classes, they take a disproportionately long time to kill.

A hypothetical question with an obvious answer: two factions in TW, each with 80 players, relatively equal in gear, numbers, and skill, but faction A has 5 bms and 15 archers, and faction B has 15 bms and 5 archers. All else is held equal. Who wins pushes? Who wins fights? You know, and I know, it isn't even a contest: the faction with the most bms wins by a LANDSLIDE. Successive waves of bms crashing into enemy lines, simultanously attacking and defending at once through their low cd, low-chi aoe stuns, while also individually locking specific, dangerous enemy targets with a low-cost 7-second paralyze from which there is no escape.

Fact is, I am quite sure you can replace most endgame dmg classes with an endgame bm, and your faction will grow stronger as a result (exception: leave in place some venos and stormbringers). Archers? Replace with bm. Psychics? Replace with bm. Wizards? Replace with bm. Seeker? Low cc-REPLACE with bm. Duskblade? Replaceable by bm---in the context of having many bms in your faction, you don't need a less-tanky class as a front-line ccer that has less aoe range on their aoes and lower damage spikes. Barbs? Enough to pull catas, otherwise, replace with bm! Sure the heavy armors will take a bit longer to kill BUT the heavy armors won't be able to do jack SHT when they are locked almost permanently by a veritable army of bms. Given enough cc, and with just enough venos left in place for purges and stormbringers for their vortex/ulti, the heavy armors will die just the same, while arcanes/light armors? RIP. Not a chance.

Some further anecdotal evidence. Dynasty fought Blacklist the other day in 60v60 DC fight. Dynasty had maybe 4 or 5 good bms. Blacklist had at least 8. Now, all things were not held equal, but I assure you, their bm # superiority was a HUGE contributing factor to their victory. In fact, their damage output wasn't really.. that high. Not compared to, say, Echo. But what they had instead was so much CC that you just couldn't do anything. And if you can't do anything for long enough, you die anyways. Each successive push by their bms chewed through more of our ground, and we were pushed back into our base over and over again, as bms, venos, and stormbringers made chunks of ground unplayable for us, making retreat the only option, since we did not have enough bms of our own to hold back their push. If you care to check a video, you can see that when the fight started and we were more spread out, we were somewhat holding, but once the fight started approaching our base and both factions became more condensed, their bms started hurting us really, really bad, and we lost ground with an increasingly rapid pace.

To conclude, it can be stated that high dmg is good, but high cc is better, in the context of mass pvp. Therefore, BM, a class with high cc and moderately high dmg (with insane spikes) is a very powerful class already that certainly does not need anything in the way of improvements, and could arguably be toned down a bit by making it 'slightly' harder for them to cc endlessly.

Edit for Red: I'm sorry that your version has weird prices that make things super hard/impossible to get. But in PWI, Paramount genie is getting more and more common, and endgame bms are all using a Paramount genie now, so chi is abundant. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain that bm has many tools involving pole/sword play that allows for greatly increased gain of chi. You know, maybe it takes a bit of skill, but bms are certainly not lacking in the chi-gain department like they used to be. What are all these chi-gain skills for if all of a bm's main ccs don't require chi??! A bm's cc SHOULD require some chi, or else the class just becomes so stupid easy to play. Just roar + dragon rising all day long with the occasional drake's bash as filler...

csquared5 wrote: »

Fact is, I am quite sure you can replace most endgame dmg classes with an endgame bm, and your faction will grow stronger as a result (exception: leave in place some venos and stormbringers). Archers? Replace with bm. Psychics? Replace with bm. Wizards? Replace with bm. Seeker? Low cc-REPLACE with bm. Duskblade? Replaceable by bm---in the context of having many bms in your faction, you don't need a less-tanky class as a front-line ccer that has less aoe range on their aoes and lower damage spikes. Barbs? Enough to pull catas, otherwise, replace with bm! Sure the heavy armors will take a bit longer to kill BUT the heavy armors won't be able to do jack SHT when they are locked almost permanently by a veritable army of bms. Given enough cc, and with just enough venos left in place for purges and stormbringers for their vortex/ulti, the heavy armors will die just the same, while arcanes/light armors? RIP. Not a chance.

Yeah, this might've been true 2 years ago where we had Candleflame players with a R9 weapons. A NP BM with G17 weapon can't compete with a NP Caster with G17 zerk weapon that is continuously triple sparking, in fact it's not even close. You'll get your **** 1shot as soon as you're not immune. It's not even comparable, a good archer never needs to stop attacking, or any good caster for that matter. Any melee class literally needs to be immune to even get to afford to attack anything.

The main kicker here is that all these range classes can kill people without having to use resources. Genie/Apo, those are all resources and yeah as long as a BM uses them then they're pretty good for a little while, but everyone has those resources.

Well, of course, BMs totally dominate TW and open PVP! Based on this thread, it's obvious that they're impossible-to-kill machines that can tank entire guilds on their own while randomly dealing 50K damage to absolutely everyone. That's why they're the highest threat of all melee classes and number one in targeting priority! Their main four skills only cost 4.5 sparks of Chi to use, and it's just absurd how spammable they are. BM really shouldn't generate so much Chi on every hit. I mean, they get the best upgrades and best glyphs of every class. It's not like they were forced into rather niche roles that excel at absolutely nothing while struggling to be mediocre because half their kit and 95% of their glyphs are completely useless or obsolete. I totally understand why every person is rushing out to roll BMs nows. I know I play on the backwater server of DA, but we're up to three whole BMs on the entire server that are actually moderately geared now! I can't wait till everyone else rerolls to the unkillable wrecking machine! Man, I should have known that all those dg-bots I see running around in instances are actually just people gearing up slowly so that they can learn the class. Boy, you guys sure showed me.

bms get focused a lot not because they are dangerous but simply because they are front line, most of the players attack targets with the tab button, and you are very likely to tab front line bms.

Game switched up that much in damage that there is really nothing at very endgame that can tank an entire squad, except properly def built assassins... an endgame bm at cap res values can get hit for his entire hp value without any debuffs by a DD class with same gears

besides the fact that with the next patch, with venos getting the granted 0def, i really want to see how a bm(or any front line class) is gonna tank anything

red#4565 wrote: »

About damage of BM: I had a idea of to do something different.
I "destroyed" the skill ɸHillborn, to get back Fissure and Highland Cleave. After this, i put Red glyph in ɸArmy Crusher.

I want to do this aswell, but I dont think its possible on our version Hillborn is so terrible and because it's a single skill you can't take Army Crusher. But as far as I'm aware, we can't split up those skills once combined.

I don't know what fantasy realm you live in where equally-geared arcanes regularly one shot endgame bms but that ain't PWI bruh.

What you are probably imagining is something like Daniii (double-reawakened NP, god-like star chart, and +12 emperor) doing high dmg on regular endgame bms. In no way is this a valid comparison, for a number of reasons.

1) the bm gear is way less in such case
2) even though many cashers do pick damage classes, they don't all the means to gear them to *that* extent.
3) even if there are a few dmg-dealers like Daniii, bms have these fancy things called stuns, which allow them to stop taking high dmg from outgeared arcanes. And when you add in lots of bms, you get lots of stuns, and lots of stuns = the bms take even less dmg because the enemy can't do jack sht most of the time.

Give a bm the same gear (but defense-sharded) as some of these super-endgame damage dealers, and we see the real comparison: compare itoushira (however his name is spelled, ie, TheDan) vs any super-endgame arcane of your choice. Who you think comes out ahead? The 55k bm with outrageous physical and magic defenses, tons of cc, high dmg, and the ability to purge? Or the 39k hp arcane with significantly lower physical defense, a high magic defense that isn't relevant in this case, less cc, very high dmg, but no ability to purge? Come on. Admit it, you know how this ends. This is why 1v1 are always done self-buffed. In 'real' fights, where people get buffs, an arcane who can't purge just get creamed. No arcane gonna take down bm without that bm getting purged first. (Making veno the only arcane who can truly 1v1 anybody in any circumstance.)

Now this comparison is more fair. And you see bm comes out very strong.

Now even in the current meta, where damage dealers tend to somewhat outgear bms, when bms show up in numbers, they basically cover for each other. By keeping the enemy stunned a lot of the time, a bm has to tank less overall dmg. Stunned enemies don't hit back.

Let me repeat that.

Stunned enemies... DON'T HIT BACK.

Bms have big aoe stuns, that disable wep so no proccing out of it. And many bms = many big, aoe stuns that disable weps so no proccing out of it. How is it not obvious to you how incredibly powerful it is to have many bms on your side? As an endgame arcane I am hugely, 100% reliant on my weapon procs to survive. No procs and I just die. Sometimes this is the case---bad lucks. So if we have enough bms negating my weapon's ability to proc, at some point I just... simply... die. Because a bm doesn't need to do as much dmg to kill me as I need to do to kill him. Not even close. And a bm's dmg spike, while not as frequent, can spike up higher than the arcane's can, with ulti and hf beating out anything classes like sb, psy, or wiz can bring to the table.

And finally let me address this veno thing again.... ONE guaranteed proc every 2 minutes. Thats LOW. Look at some of Aemirah videos. If the luck spits the right way, she can get like 3 or 4 procs in 2 minutes. (I did the math a while back, but here it is again; assume an average of 10s for iw attempt, with a 20% success rate, = average of 50 seconds per iw proc, or over 2 iw procs in 2 minutes. In actual fact iw cd is 8 seconds, so if, in case where veno literally was able to do an iw every 8 seconds, then the math works out to 40 seconds per iw attempt... but I'm making some allowances here for the other things veno do. And two sparks cost! As it currently stands, in mass pvp, iw procs is a death sentence anyways. And if you block it, you could just, randomly, get hit with another one 8 seconds later. But in the future, you know its coming so you can predict it. And when you can predict it, you can block it. And if you block it, you are safe from that veno for another 2 minutes. How is it not obvious that this type of setup is a nerf, not an upgrade?

And furthermore, you ... seem to have inherently decided that the venos would go for the bms. Bms aren't the only people in melee range. There are dbs, sins... the odd enemy veno. Barbs. Seekers even. Many targets. Why do you assume that the veno would target the bm. WHY?! HA! You already know the answer. Why would a veno pick a bm? Because bms are the most **** DANGEROUS thing in melee range, and must be suppressed. Your own assumption about what venos do undermines your idea that bms are somehow a weak class. Nothing could be further from the truth.

@Aeliah - Dreamweaver we are talking mass, in mass your def charms are pretty much always down especially if you are frontline,
in mass you can't aoe stun everyone, there will be still someone hitting you,
i've been 1hitting portal bms with no debuffs when i had 3x 2S set, a properly built psy can do that aswell without daniii's sort of gears... be demon 3spark tide ult u r gonna crit or zerk him for his hps

an arcane char at 3x2S with a proper 20apti chart can delete HAs, a psy of said sort of gears with that combo reaches 170k base damage and 60% crit rate, add a zerk weapon and there you go

also fyi bms are the class that suffer the least from debuffs

Just want to chime in that BMs do have distance CC. Thou it is a chance to freeze, I can definitely slow you down. Argent on Drake's Ray. I got 28m for that, and 30m with Oceans Edge. And still rolling for a third range to increase it even further. Or a lv8 glyph to multiply it again. The math is weird thou. I have over 8m range, but x3 somehow is 30m for Oceans.

I have the r8rr pole with two range adds. It has 4.5 base, then a 1.5 and 1.75 addition, for 7.75 range.

I'm rounding up to 8 for some easy math, and to help explain my confusion. At 8m, Drake's Ray gives 2x + 12. So 28m works. But when I use Ferocious or Oceans, I don't have to step forward. I could go back a little and still be in range.

8x3 is only 24m. Should still need to walk going by the math. Feels more like it's x4 for a lv5 glyph.

Ok so based in all updates news we have seen (0) means 1 month more skill fixing? Update? Maybe other year?