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NEW SKILS WITH GLITHES MARCH 2019

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  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    Bms stuns are scary but lot easier to avoid than db. Currently db have more ccs than bms and around similar survival. Which isn't quite in line with what the class aught to be as light armor... remember bms don't have multiple teleports, untargets, stealths, and other nonsense dbs have. Bms should be tankier because they actually are required to tank to survive. Dbs should be less tanky because they have many escape skills. Similar to how something like a cleric would be broken if we had seeker levels of tankiness---we already have many save skills and heals we are supposed to use to save ourselves. Just a simple matter of balance.

    Dbs are still gonna be really relevant but they'll actually have to exercise caution (and possibly go def lvl shard like many other front-line classes, what a shocker) to survive. More passively tanking other melee but needing to close in on ranged classes to avoid getting hurt. And they'll actually have to check their own buff like practically every other class to see if its been purged or not. Deal with it! You still get an absurd amount of chi from that buff so rebuffing it now and then is hardly end of the world lol.

    In terms of their impact on mass pvp, bm and dbs are similar. Both do lots of aoe cc. In the future... they'll both continue to do lots of aoe cc. If dbs want to switch to bm, I don't give a flying **** lol. In small scale pvp dbs are far scarier than bms atm, and, even after the changes, they'll still be one of the most dangerous 3v3 classes, so I'll take a bm over a db any day.
    »Go back to sleep...« PWI Youtube Channel




  • andadina1andadina1 Posts: 40 Arc User
    As a db main sure i might not fully like the changes but what it really pisses me off is that they did nothing to sins , you guys say LA class shouldn't tank people and you might be right but sins can still tank people very good due to their tidal making them immune to a lot of stuff while at the same time they do a ton of dmg. having their ulti as their way out or even simple jumps
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 9
    I dont get people trying to compare BM to DB. Just because someone makes a higher number pop up on your screen doesn't mean anything. In mass PvP it's all about zone control and priority; if your opponent is in a zone you control then they have to leave or they die. Likewise if you're in a zone the enemy controls then you have to leave or you die.

    BM has been in a bit of a fkd up state since DBs came out because they are very low on the list of priority when it comes to melee zone control. Sins ignore the CC so they have priority. Venos have 8m range on the BM so have initiative, which buys them priority (if the veno actually sees the BM coming and is in fox form). DBs have gapclosers with hard CC which gives them initiative, which buys them priority. And barbs are somewhat on equal footing with the BM depending if they have faith or not (Barbs without Faith are just as fkd as BMs, Barbs with faith = Sins). What this means is that every melee class (yes fox form veno counts aswell) gets to make the first move on the BM (cept from Barb), which in mass PvP means death, because these classes control the zone you are in, unless you have other teammates emitting control over that zone aswell and can basically threaten those people. BMs are currently specialists in farming noobs and lonewolves. If you play in mass PvP and your positioning is so poor that a BM can push their control onto your area then they can lock you down and kill you very easily, but the only reason they ever got the priority on you is because you were not paying attention, or because there is no class nearby that actually applies melee zone control (Sin/DB/Veno/Barb). If you find yourself dying to BMs a lot then consider paying attention to your positioning, because it's you that's messing up.

    So what options do you have? You're forced to use apo/genie to negate the opposing pressure on you, which basically puts you down 1 peg since they still have that available. This is what makes DB a completely different class from a BM, they have the CC on their gapclosers, there is no delay, there is no travel time, there is no 8m range for venos. That's also why DBs are always complaining sins are OP, because that's the only class that has melee priority on the DB. These nerfs don't change this part about DBs, they will still have priority. In fact the change to their passive increases their melee zone control and allows them to finally fight the 1 class they previously could not, sins. Wether or not it's enough to put their control higher than sins remains to be seen, I don't know. I'm not saying DBs are getting buffed, they are definately getting nerfed, however that aspect of the DB is getting buffed so I don't think they're in too bad of a shape.

    Seems stupid for DBs to reroll to BM imo. Playing BM is mass PvP right now feels like playing Metal Gear Solid, where you have to avoid all the guards (Sins/DBs/Venos/Barbs) to get to your target, but if any of those classes catches you on the way there then it's bye bye. That said, I'm not all upset about the current state of BM, I'm completely worthless against good people, but getting to hit the noobs for 50k+ makes it not too bad. And maybe the new skills might change something, mostly looks like a bunch of ranged metal damage though, and we already have a trash heavy armor class that does ranged metal damage, so we all know how bad that's going to be. (Cept from the people that think seeker is a good class based of the merit that they occasionally make a big number appear on their screen; completely ignoring the severe lack of pressure the class applies during PvP and basically gets hardcarried by the pressure applied by others)


    IGN: Madskillz
  • datsangdatsang Posts: 128 Arc User
    Your opinion regarding seekers is very similar to what I had some years ago. They have since been buffed massively but thats not really the point I`m gonna make. Pre server merges I was in Archosaur, which literally, as I`ve learned since, had 1 decent seeker who has since quit the game. She was so far beyond me in gear I did assume it was mostly if not completely gear on why I struggled with her. But vast majority of seekers are ridiculously bad at this game to the point I could pull my **** out to smash keyboard with it and not die to certain seeker, who is G17 nowdays. I still might be able to do that assuming he hasnt improved in the past year I doubt.


    Your theory might hold somewhat in a vacuum but this game is not a vacuum. There are BMs, sins, venos, etc. running around providing CC/distraction/etc. Seekers dmg output is ridiculous, debuff is extremely strong. They also got blurr to bypass defense levels, wrecking def sharded ppl hard if they get to follow CC. They wont miss either on most of the skills they be hitting you with regularly.

    And lets not forget how tanky that class is. Cheapest way in resource management might be just CCing them, which they dont struggle too much any longer, over killing them due the sheer amount or resources killing them takes. But sure, the class is trash.

    The main thing, which has changed for BM is the fact they no longer need follow up dmg for their CC, they can provide the dmg themselves. Strong enough BM can easily run in to HF, watch everybody and their moms around them pop genies/apoths, wait, pop red glyphed AoE, whatever it was called, and mow down squads if they dont happen to run away. Enemy which is running isnt fighting back save SBs. This will result in either dead ppl or very disoriented opposition due the fact some are fighting, some are running. Either is good for the BM.

    I want to say BM will be the strongest class for pretty much any kind of PvP when this update hits. Whatever weaknesses it had are becoming slimmer and the sheer 1shot potential the class has is ridiculous. Does this mean side with more BMs automatically wins? Of course not but having more of them surely helps.
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited March 9
    csquared5 wrote: »
    Bms stuns are scary but lot easier to avoid than db. Currently db have more ccs than bms and around similar survival. Which isn't quite in line with what the class aught to be as light armor... remember bms don't have multiple teleports, untargets, stealths, and other nonsense dbs have. Bms should be tankier because they actually are required to tank to survive. Dbs should be less tanky because they have many escape skills. Similar to how something like a cleric would be broken if we had seeker levels of tankiness---we already have many save skills and heals we are supposed to use to save ourselves. Just a simple matter of balance.

    Dbs are still gonna be really relevant but they'll actually have to exercise caution (and possibly go def lvl shard like many other front-line classes, what a shocker) to survive. More passively tanking other melee but needing to close in on ranged classes to avoid getting hurt. And they'll actually have to check their own buff like practically every other class to see if its been purged or not. Deal with it! You still get an absurd amount of chi from that buff so rebuffing it now and then is hardly end of the world lol.

    You do do realize aside from tideswell practically every db on most servers are sage right? This is common knowledge... So the insane chi you speak of from buff applies to a extremely small minority



    dingo488 wrote: »
    I dont get people trying to compare BM to DB. Just because someone makes a higher number pop up on your screen doesn't mean anything. In mass PvP it's all about zone control and priority; if your opponent is in a zone you control then they have to leave or they die. Likewise if you're in a zone the enemy controls then you have to leave or you die.

    BM has been in a bit of a fkd up state since DBs came out because they are very low on the list of priority when it comes to melee zone control. Sins ignore the CC so they have priority. Venos have 8m range on the BM so have initiative, which buys them priority (if the veno actually sees the BM coming and is in fox form). DBs have gapclosers with hard CC which gives them initiative, which buys them priority. And barbs are somewhat on equal footing with the BM depending if they have faith or not (Barbs without Faith are just as fkd as BMs, Barbs with faith = Sins). What this means is that every melee class (yes fox form veno counts aswell) gets to make the first move on the BM (cept from Barb), which in mass PvP means death, because these classes control the zone you are in, unless you have other teammates emitting control over that zone aswell and can basically threaten those people. BMs are currently specialists in farming noobs and lonewolves. If you play in mass PvP and your positioning is so poor that a BM can push their control onto your area then they can lock you down and kill you very easily, but the only reason they ever got the priority on you is because you were not paying attention, or because there is no class nearby that actually applies melee zone control (Sin/DB/Veno/Barb). If you find yourself dying to BMs a lot then consider paying attention to your positioning, because it's you that's messing up.

    So what options do you have? You're forced to use apo/genie to negate the opposing pressure on you, which basically puts you down 1 peg since they still have that available. This is what makes DB a completely different class from a BM, they have the CC on their gapclosers, there is no delay, there is no travel time, there is no 8m range for venos. That's also why DBs are always complaining sins are OP, because that's the only class that has melee priority on the DB. These nerfs don't change this part about DBs, they will still have priority. In fact the change to their passive increases their melee zone control and allows them to finally fight the 1 class they previously could not, sins. Wether or not it's enough to put their control higher than sins remains to be seen, I don't know. I'm not saying DBs are getting buffed, they are definately getting nerfed, however that aspect of the DB is getting buffed so I don't think they're in too bad of a shape.

    Seems stupid for DBs to reroll to BM imo. Playing BM is mass PvP right now feels like playing Metal Gear Solid, where you have to avoid all the guards (Sins/DBs/Venos/Barbs) to get to your target, but if any of those classes catches you on the way there then it's bye bye. That said, I'm not all upset about the current state of BM, I'm completely worthless against good people, but getting to hit the noobs for 50k+ makes it not too bad. And maybe the new skills might change something, mostly looks like a bunch of ranged metal damage though, and we already have a trash heavy armor class that does ranged metal damage, so we all know how bad that's going to be. (Cept from the people that think seeker is a good class based of the merit that they occasionally make a big number appear on their screen; completely ignoring the severe lack of pressure the class applies during PvP and basically gets hardcarried by the pressure applied by others)

    There was some good points here I just really hope they reconsider giving db back their disarming and reset their buff back. As it stands that buff is the only true defense aside from nw/rw pot against sins and archers. Making it purgeable means every sin will erase arcane even easier. Not like even needed help in the first place doing this. I don’t feel like bm is horrendously broken just the damage spikes seem insane. To have your hp fine (around 80) thenminstantly 0 is stupid imo already have certain classes doing that more is even more annoying.

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  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 920 Arc User
    datsang wrote: »
    I want to say BM will be the strongest class for pretty much any kind of PvP when this update hits.

    My money is on every class being trash besides Paladin, Gunner and Assassin, since I'm sure we still haven't learned how to play around Tidal uptime by then.



    IGN: Madskillz
  • zombiemaster123zombiemaster123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited March 9
    Ah, the game seems such a hassle when you only live doing nonsense-Mass-PvP. Even now, Barbs and BMs absolutely trash Duskblades in a 1v1 and it is not even hard on equal gear. Slap on full Mag Expel/Faith genies on their genies and BMs/Barbs can tank a DB for eternity or, if the DB is att lvl sharded, simply kick him out of the live with one swift attack (any skill boosted by violent triumph will do ofc a full chi red glyphed att skill from BMs, add EP for good meassure or Mire if its not enough). Expel also won't help much cause all of those combos can be done nearly instantly.

    Then again, ppl always tell me that this game is Mass-PvP oriented, so who cares about what happens in 1v1, right?

    Why the hell are sins that strong? This is ridiculous in the context of fighting fully buffed endgame geared ppl. Sure, in 1v1 on selfbuffs, most classes go down like nothing. No question. However, if you are on your own and do anything but AA/coordinate with your team mates to attack on purged/debuffed targets..you deal no damage at all. The occasional 10k+ ZC is nothing with the ppls current HP-Levels. Tidal is still a broken skill, yes, but most sins are so squishy, if it fails they almost instantly need to blow a save or die. Still remember fighting a particularly tanky DB with my 56k base damage 265att lvl sin (so wik) and dealing 8k ZC max off def charm in 2 spark. I mean...this will even get worse with the update. I really don't see why DBs are complaining.

    Because they can't use their ridiculous saves as often anymore (1 lol), need more chi for their ports and get paralyze removed from them? I said it before and I say it again. That 10000% sounds like someone: "Damn, they reworked the class so I cannot just spam my paralyze ports anymore when the air gets thin and I also cannot spam umbral anymore or kite to china in reaper form and basically automatically negate all ranged damage. Damn, this is too hard for me. I must reroll another class :( " - This. This is what it sounds like.

    "BUt dude, the only reason I spent 10k+ on this game is so that I can feel like a god :( I need to be powerful and always play the strongest class and if it gets nerfed I QQ and/or ragequit or move on to the next strongest class that assists my skill-less hunger for power." I pity those ppl. Learn, Adapt, Grow and become stronger. That is how you survive. Hope those ppl never get into a sticky situation in RL cause I can easily predict how that would go. Always walking the path of least resistance will keep you weak and pathetic forever and frankly, it shows in 99% of this games Casher-community. Heck, all games like this.

    I dare conclude again: Anyone that can play the DB decently and prefers more skill-full gameplay than domination due to pure numbers will agree that this nerf (fix) is good and was needed and will seperate the noobs from the good players. Go ahead, reroll to BM ijs, find out that BM is a bit harder to play and to coordinate with compared to a class that has limitless gap-closers (so long :P ) and with which you actually have to try to catch kiting targets and need to waste ressources more often than not to actually catch them while being hyper predictable in the process. I welcome this. I love to see noobs fail. Only from failure you can learn and improve. Some ppl still seem to be too stubborn to understand this basic concept of humanity.
  • happyhailhappyhail Posts: 112 Arc User
    I want to play this game you guys are playing where BMs casually hit 50K on endgame targets and sins only deal 10K zerk crits. trololo
  • hypnosian123hypnosian123 Posts: 116 Arc User
    same... i saw sins hit equally geared cap pdef targets for their full hp down to nought 123
  • zombiemaster123zombiemaster123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    BMs do not casually hit 50k on endgame targets. if equally geared and sharded to full offensive on a seeker with serenity and 80 def weap, a BM can still Oneshot that. Ofc. PPl forget multipliers. Ulti is 2x, HF is 2x, lvl8 red glyph adds roughly another 4x to the mix. crit is 1.8x and zerk is another 2x. If all of those are applied we are talking 2x2x2x4x1.8 = 57.6 times base damage. BMs can easily achieve 70k+ Base damage, especially since the red glyphed skills add so much accu that it doesnt even matter how accu you have. If you add EP thats another 1.2x multiplier. Ofc this kills anything, in most cases even without zerk or crit.

    people act as if it is hard to just use expel when a bm is in ulti and HF. Sure, it might be hard to get away after that you might think. No. If you do this on paralyze, all you need after expel is a well times fortify and you can get away pretty easily. If a BM can OS you right off the bat with full chi red glyphed skills of your choice, welp, then you are in trouble. Again, this mainly applies for 1v1, in mass pvp it became easier to sustain the damage needed with paramount but it still puts you at risk. I personally would only play a full offensive BM cause I know how to do it well and knock down single targets and if I can take someone with me before I die then I am good with that. In 1v1 BM is already one of the most broken classes, however, such a BM dies rather easily in mass pvp, due to obvious reasons. Altho, an 80 def weap of his own helps quite a bit :P hence why I said and will always say that the introduction of g17 is absolute gutter garbage in terms of balance. you can make a point for g17.4 and lower, not for g17.5 tho.

    Sins only have base damage and attack level. Aside from subsea no damage multipliers..40 more att lvl compared to a BM but still 10-20k less base damage compared to gear with a whopping 1.5x multi on amps compared to 16x on just Ulti+hf+red glyph skill...welp, the 200-500% base damage increase still does not compared in the slightest. Makes sense? Thing is tho that sins damage is way easier utilized. Any random nub can 3 spark, chi skill and jump someone with CJ, 5 hit charge glyph on Inner Harmony into argent elimination. Fast, reliable, easy damage. Easy is the key word.
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited March 9
    happyhail wrote: »
    I want to play this game you guys are playing where BMs casually hit 50K on endgame targets and sins only deal 10K zerk crits. trololo

    One where ppl go full devil with a g17.5 def wep and faceroll. Not really unattainable they even one shotting 80 def toons if you build it this way I believe there’s 2 on Twilight one doesn’t pvp
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  • datsangdatsang Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited March 9
    happyhail wrote: »
    I want to play this game you guys are playing where BMs casually hit 50K on endgame targets and sins only deal 10K zerk crits. trololo

    This is a troll on afk guildie by a BM and some could argue it doesnt count for that but its a NP sin getting hit: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389928785321132042/551515711760236564/unknown.png

    Here same BM hitting serenity(?) veno https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389928785321132042/553765320209334282/unknown.png

    And this dmg is from a serenity BM so its not like its easy to drop if you try to kill them back.

    Edit: Any was selfbuffed after checking it with the person´killing him.
  • hypnosian123hypnosian123 Posts: 116 Arc User
    BMs do not casually hit 50k on endgame targets. if equally geared and sharded to full offensive on a seeker with serenity and 80 def weap, a BM can still Oneshot that. Ofc. PPl forget multipliers. Ulti is 2x, HF is 2x, lvl8 red glyph adds roughly another 4x to the mix. crit is 1.8x and zerk is another 2x. If all of those are applied we are talking 2x2x2x4x1.8 = 57.6 times base damage. BMs can easily achieve 70k+ Base damage, especially since the red glyphed skills add so much accu that it doesnt even matter how accu you have. If you add EP thats another 1.2x multiplier. Ofc this kills anything, in most cases even without zerk or crit.

    people act as if it is hard to just use expel when a bm is in ulti and HF. Sure, it might be hard to get away after that you might think. No. If you do this on paralyze, all you need after expel is a well times fortify and you can get away pretty easily. If a BM can OS you right off the bat with full chi red glyphed skills of your choice, welp, then you are in trouble. Again, this mainly applies for 1v1, in mass pvp it became easier to sustain the damage needed with paramount but it still puts you at risk. I personally would only play a full offensive BM cause I know how to do it well and knock down single targets and if I can take someone with me before I die then I am good with that. In 1v1 BM is already one of the most broken classes, however, such a BM dies rather easily in mass pvp, due to obvious reasons. Altho, an 80 def weap of his own helps quite a bit :P hence why I said and will always say that the introduction of g17 is absolute gutter garbage in terms of balance. you can make a point for g17.4 and lower, not for g17.5 tho.

    Sins only have base damage and attack level. Aside from subsea no damage multipliers..40 more att lvl compared to a BM but still 10-20k less base damage compared to gear with a whopping 1.5x multi on amps compared to 16x on just Ulti+hf+red glyph skill...welp, the 200-500% base damage increase still does not compared in the slightest. Makes sense? Thing is tho that sins damage is way easier utilized. Any random nub can 3 spark, chi skill and jump someone with CJ, 5 hit charge glyph on Inner Harmony into argent elimination. Fast, reliable, easy damage. Easy is the key word.

    lmao sins have no damage multipliers xD
    sins are the class with the most damage multipliers in the goddamn game...

    high crit rate = 2x - wolf emblem 2.2x - zerk 4.4 - subsea 6.6 - they **** 3sparks 13 - elimination? 400% base? 13x4? = 52x
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 9
    datsang wrote: »

    Nah, I hit anythefox for 60k+ aswell, that has to be a deity veno.

    Also every single demon in this game (aswell as veno) can shut down this ''insane BM damage'', that shjt requires them to have mad chi, steal it. You've had the tools all along.



    IGN: Madskillz
  • funnymanhafunnymanha Posts: 7 Arc User
    Since barb have 60sec faith and bm have 60sec m/pdef buff. Can we archer have 60sec of dodge? lol
  • datsangdatsang Posts: 128 Arc User
    dingo488 wrote: »
    datsang wrote: »

    Nah, I hit anythefox for 60k+ aswell, that has to be a deity veno.

    Also every single demon in this game (aswell as veno) can shut down this ''insane BM damage'', that shjt requires them to have mad chi, steal it. You've had the tools all along.

    Appareantly its partial serenity, partial devil. I`m guessing 3/3 split. Either way its endgame veno, I know they were going for NP at some point but that was when NP cards were trough spend promos. They might of gotten it with the last promo but I wouldnt know for sure, I`m way too inactive to keep up with ppls gears nowdays.

  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    BMs do not casually hit 50k on endgame targets. if equally geared and sharded to full offensive on a seeker with serenity and 80 def weap, a BM can still Oneshot that. Ofc. PPl forget multipliers. Ulti is 2x, HF is 2x, lvl8 red glyph adds roughly another 4x to the mix. crit is 1.8x and zerk is another 2x. If all of those are applied we are talking 2x2x2x4x1.8 = 57.6 times base damage. BMs can easily achieve 70k+ Base damage, especially since the red glyphed skills add so much accu that it doesnt even matter how accu you have. If you add EP thats another 1.2x multiplier. Ofc this kills anything, in most cases even without zerk or crit.

    people act as if it is hard to just use expel when a bm is in ulti and HF. Sure, it might be hard to get away after that you might think. No. If you do this on paralyze, all you need after expel is a well times fortify and you can get away pretty easily. If a BM can OS you right off the bat with full chi red glyphed skills of your choice, welp, then you are in trouble. Again, this mainly applies for 1v1, in mass pvp it became easier to sustain the damage needed with paramount but it still puts you at risk. I personally would only play a full offensive BM cause I know how to do it well and knock down single targets and if I can take someone with me before I die then I am good with that. In 1v1 BM is already one of the most broken classes, however, such a BM dies rather easily in mass pvp, due to obvious reasons. Altho, an 80 def weap of his own helps quite a bit :P hence why I said and will always say that the introduction of g17 is absolute gutter garbage in terms of balance. you can make a point for g17.4 and lower, not for g17.5 tho.

    Sins only have base damage and attack level. Aside from subsea no damage multipliers..40 more att lvl compared to a BM but still 10-20k less base damage compared to gear with a whopping 1.5x multi on amps compared to 16x on just Ulti+hf+red glyph skill...welp, the 200-500% base damage increase still does not compared in the slightest. Makes sense? Thing is tho that sins damage is way easier utilized. Any random nub can 3 spark, chi skill and jump someone with CJ, 5 hit charge glyph on Inner Harmony into argent elimination. Fast, reliable, easy damage. Easy is the key word.

    lmao sins have no damage multipliers xD
    sins are the class with the most damage multipliers in the goddamn game...

    high crit rate = 2x - wolf emblem 2.2x - zerk 4.4 - subsea 6.6 - they **** 3sparks 13 - elimination? 400% base? 13x4? = 52x

    Honestly I’m shocked he even said no damage multipliers when before he started playing sin he even agreed they had the most... Bias af....
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  • teikiatsu11teikiatsu11 Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited March 10
    We're talking like these super high hits for BM's aren't RNG based. Its a lot of build up to try and get those hits. Even then there's quite a few good ways for any class to **** up that combo unless the BM's playing smart, so its not like they can just bypass every defensive option everyone has to just slam you into the dirt. I think the games taking a weird turn for whatever the hell they're doing to every class but BM isn't as stupidly broken as people seem to believe. They don't have consistently high damage, their high damage kill skills aren't as spammable as other class, and even the low CD ones with red glyph still require build up to max chi to get that kinda damage. I could call any class broken if I went off their theoretical best possible damage based off the idea that my opponent is sitting there gawking at me instead of trying to stop me from beating the hell out of them and that every skill is instant cast with 0 CD 100% spammable chains that give me max chi every time and always crit and zerk.
  • splendideyessplendideyes Posts: 312 Arc User
    We're talking like these super high hits for BM's aren't RNG based. Its a lot of build up to try and get those hits. Even then there's quite a few good ways for any class to **** up that combo unless the BM's playing smart, so its not like they can just bypass every defensive option everyone has to just slam you into the dirt. I think the games taking a weird turn for whatever the hell they're doing to every class but BM isn't as stupidly broken as people seem to believe. They don't have consistently high damage, their high damage kill skills aren't as spammable as other class, and even the low CD ones with red glyph still require build up to max chi to get that kinda damage. I could call any class broken if I went off their theoretical best possible damage based off the idea that my opponent is sitting there gawking at me instead of trying to stop me from beating the hell out of them and that every skill is instant cast with 0 CD 100% spammable chains that give me max chi every time and always crit and zerk.

    you are right, till you meet sweettooth and get hit for 42 k after 1 para and 1 extra hit, fully buffed, fully everything and he neither sparked, nor ulted nor hf`ed.
  • sothiyasothiya Posts: 7 Arc User
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear

  • nowayoutgtx960nowayoutgtx960 Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 10
    well that video is just sad lol, why would you even use pot vs a vit veno (unless iw) when you can just use paramount skill and negate the chi combo, unless the veno use Ulti + chi burn + chi sipphon, only chi of chant from paramount is enough. This 1st match after the sin got purged he spent 4 min chasing the veno without even rebuffing chill of the deep, idk if we can put this sin as a class measurement, any devil aeu sin with knowledge of how veno works, would've done better, maybe even win, thought flawless veno gameplay by kitashi.
  • alphadevil1991alphadevil1991 Posts: 4 Arc User
    sothiya wrote: »
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear


    he isnt maxed in all gears and his g17/5 weapon is not best pvp procs. would be more impressing if u killed genessesia with his 4.4k spirit.
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 10
    sothiya wrote: »

    -Mumbles something about melee zone control and how a sin is trash without their borrowed time mechanic in Tidal-
    Its kinda embarrasing he lost, but it was pretty clear that he lost because he didn't respect your ability to ever kill him, now he knows. Venos on Twilight Temple are probably the most poorly piloted class of all, so I'm not surprised he didn't respect you.


    IGN: Madskillz
  • Any nerfs or buffs to barbarian?
  • sothiyasothiya Posts: 7 Arc User
    sothiya wrote: »
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear


    he isnt maxed in all gears and his g17/5 weapon is not best pvp procs. would be more impressing if u killed genessesia with his 4.4k spirit.

    isnt maxed on all gear? which gear are u talking about. and his g17 is zerk + untarget. is there a better proc than that?
  • alphadevil1991alphadevil1991 Posts: 4 Arc User
    sothiya wrote: »
    sothiya wrote: »
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear


    he isnt maxed in all gears and his g17/5 weapon is not best pvp procs. would be more impressing if u killed genessesia with his 4.4k spirit.

    isnt maxed on all gear? which gear are u talking about. and his g17 is zerk + untarget. is there a better proc than that?

    i personaly would prefere others procs for pvp. and he is also not max geared while his attack is only 70k with nw and barb buffs, while a maxed sin would have 75-80k unbuffed
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    sothiya wrote: »
    sothiya wrote: »
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear


    he isnt maxed in all gears and his g17/5 weapon is not best pvp procs. would be more impressing if u killed genessesia with his 4.4k spirit.

    isnt maxed on all gear? which gear are u talking about. and his g17 is zerk + untarget. is there a better proc than that?

    i personaly would prefere others procs for pvp. and he is also not max geared while his attack is only 70k with nw and barb buffs, while a maxed sin would have 75-80k unbuffed

    70k sounds very high Jesus.
    sothiya wrote: »
    so for the people saying sins got crazy damage, just watch this video NP rb2 + awakened sin with g17 r5 and every max gears. dying to a veno who is just josd and with partial max chart and isnt even 1/10 of the sin's gear


    You do realize this doesn’t showcase sins don’t have crazy damage? Kitashi is vit build josd with a decent defense chart. By this logic we should all be to have any chance to survive a sin?
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
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  • datsangdatsang Posts: 128 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »

    You do realize this doesn’t showcase sins don’t have crazy damage? Kitashi is vit build josd with a decent defense chart. By this logic we should all be to have any chance to survive a sin?

    *Cries in deities*.

    But you are definitely correct it not showcasing sins having reasonable dmg. Max defense builds can somewhat tank sins but not every class has tools to kill ppl with those kinds of builds. You def shard an archer for example and you are nothing but glorified purge bot. And honestly, full def build vs full def build are extremely boring match ups generally as killing the other revolves around few combos, which some might consider gamebreaking. Having least one of the toons offense built makes far more interesting fights imo.

    I cant speak for anybody but I know I have dicked around ppl I didnt expect having chance of fighting back be it trough gear or whatever reasons. Those didnt always go too well for me. Might of simply been one of those instances where sin wasnt too aware of what veno can do and completely underestimated their ability to kill the sin.
  • splendideyessplendideyes Posts: 312 Arc User
    thread successfully derailed once again.
  • zombiemaster123zombiemaster123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    BMs do not casually hit 50k on endgame targets. if equally geared and sharded to full offensive on a seeker with serenity and 80 def weap, a BM can still Oneshot that. Ofc. PPl forget multipliers. Ulti is 2x, HF is 2x, lvl8 red glyph adds roughly another 4x to the mix. crit is 1.8x and zerk is another 2x. If all of those are applied we are talking 2x2x2x4x1.8 = 57.6 times base damage. BMs can easily achieve 70k+ Base damage, especially since the red glyphed skills add so much accu that it doesnt even matter how accu you have. If you add EP thats another 1.2x multiplier. Ofc this kills anything, in most cases even without zerk or crit.

    people act as if it is hard to just use expel when a bm is in ulti and HF. Sure, it might be hard to get away after that you might think. No. If you do this on paralyze, all you need after expel is a well times fortify and you can get away pretty easily. If a BM can OS you right off the bat with full chi red glyphed skills of your choice, welp, then you are in trouble. Again, this mainly applies for 1v1, in mass pvp it became easier to sustain the damage needed with paramount but it still puts you at risk. I personally would only play a full offensive BM cause I know how to do it well and knock down single targets and if I can take someone with me before I die then I am good with that. In 1v1 BM is already one of the most broken classes, however, such a BM dies rather easily in mass pvp, due to obvious reasons. Altho, an 80 def weap of his own helps quite a bit :P hence why I said and will always say that the introduction of g17 is absolute gutter garbage in terms of balance. you can make a point for g17.4 and lower, not for g17.5 tho.

    Sins only have base damage and attack level. Aside from subsea no damage multipliers..40 more att lvl compared to a BM but still 10-20k less base damage compared to gear with a whopping 1.5x multi on amps compared to 16x on just Ulti+hf+red glyph skill...welp, the 200-500% base damage increase still does not compared in the slightest. Makes sense? Thing is tho that sins damage is way easier utilized. Any random nub can 3 spark, chi skill and jump someone with CJ, 5 hit charge glyph on Inner Harmony into argent elimination. Fast, reliable, easy damage. Easy is the key word.

    lmao sins have no damage multipliers xD
    sins are the class with the most damage multipliers in the goddamn game...

    high crit rate = 2x - wolf emblem 2.2x - zerk 4.4 - subsea 6.6 - they **** 3sparks 13 - elimination? 400% base? 13x4? = 52x

    Honestly I’m shocked he even said no damage multipliers when before he started playing sin he even agreed they had the most... Bias af....

    I mentioned this:

    Sins only have base damage and attack level. Aside from subsea no damage multipliers..40 more att lvl compared to a BM but still 10-20k less base damage compared to gear with a whopping 1.5x multi on amps compared to 16x on just Ulti+hf+red glyph skill...welp, the 200-500% base damage increase still does not compared in the slightest. Makes sense? Thing is tho that sins damage is way easier utilized. Any random nub can 3 spark, chi skill and jump someone with CJ, 5 hit charge glyph on Inner Harmony into argent elimination. Fast, reliable, easy damage. Easy is the key word

    But it does not compare to a BMs damage output. Red Glyphed River for example is already a 400% base damage skill, like elimination. You can add HF and ulti, which costs nearly no chi and ulti requires only 5 hits to be at double damage and at this point, even if the BM only uses the skill with half Chi (2 sparks) it still deals more damage than anything a sin can possibly muster in a direct comparison. Also, unlike what qontrol said, just reducing the chi by 50 does not take much punch out of those skills at all. A sin only has 40 more att lvl and thats it, wolf emblem goes 1to1 to noting with just the basic crit damage reduction passive and for other classes I calc crits as 1.8x anyways. So while you have a sin, like my late sin as example, 56k base, 261 Att lvl. An equally geared BM would end up at roughly 72k base damage and 221 att lvl. My sin ended up at rougly 90k base damage in trip spark. That is a bit higher than the BM, sure, but just HF alone + full chi for the Red Glyphed skill deals more damage than a full Hit charge powered Argent lvl8 Elimination. Not spread on 5 hits and on 1 hit instead, which is far more dangerous. If the BM adds ulti then it is already GG. Just the Basic CC combo with paramount genie and you can use 2 of those skills in a row while CCing through the initial Expel for a 100% win vs some classes if no Def Proc. Dragons Bane also increases crit in such a manor that its roughly comparable to sins crit rate.

    I am not biased towards sin at all. You will NEVER see me play sin again. I only play archer and sb now sometimes, but mainly archer, rest IDGAF about anymore. No time to bother with any class that is not my fav. Also no dailies, farming, I ignore all that. I log for PvP on Archer when I feel like it or not at all.
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