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NEW SKILS WITH GLITHES MARCH 2019

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  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 918 Arc User
    Boring. With the gear changes BMs can't go back to tank duty, there's no way they can tank with that many melee purges and ranged zerks around. O well, I imagine PWI will shut down their servers before this patch hits. I don't know how many people are still charging for NP when they see the game isn't being updated, but I imagine it can't be much.


    IGN: Madskillz
  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    I don't know why BM ever thought they deserved a near perfect stun lock that barely costs chi. Mmmm. Should I ask devs to make my SoG cost 0 chi too?! What do you think of that eh.
    »Go back to sleep...« PWI Youtube Channel




  • uchijawaruchijawar Posts: 58 Arc User
    I was just reading what Red said and Ong so sad they will ruin the little BM thst we have atm on our game gg China U never fail us
    And btw is there any way to see the full skills ? Of the BM like the new changes , I mean the other changes like the metal DMG on aps skill the pike skill and flash and new ultimate skills?
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited May 24
    uchijawar wrote: »
    I was just reading what Red said and Ong so sad they will ruin the little BM thst we have atm on our game gg China U never fail us
    And btw is there any way to see the full skills ? Of the BM like the new changes , I mean the other changes like the metal DMG on aps skill the pike skill and flash and new ultimate skills?

    Yes, click in this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10QRqFsD_AAD3h7hk1wYKNf-hpNdNtkqG0xuLFlibXOs/edit#gid=1559981480

    I wrote the Excel so it'll be in portuguese (my language rsrsrs) but you can translate to english by Google.
    It shows all classes skils upgrades, but, just BM have details more deep because this is my class, of course. :)
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited May 24
    csquared5 wrote: »
    I don't know why BM ever thought they deserved a near perfect stun lock that barely costs chi. Mmmm. Should I ask devs to make my SoG cost 0 chi too?! What do you think of that eh.

    31s6xc.jpg

    But let's pretend chi generation, and resource allocation is the same for a 28m range support class. If you're under constant pressure from melee classes as a 28m range support it most certainly isn't because your positioning sucks.

    That said, BMs are broken as fk in small scale PvP. But in large scale PvP they are absolutely worthless, as is any melee class without tidal/faith. As I'm sure the Edgerunner will be aswell.



    IGN: Madskillz
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    dingo488 wrote: »
    csquared5 wrote: »
    I don't know why BM ever thought they deserved a near perfect stun lock that barely costs chi. Mmmm. Should I ask devs to make my SoG cost 0 chi too?! What do you think of that eh.

    31s6xc.jpg

    But let's pretend chi generation, and resource allocation is the same for a 28m range support class. If you're under constant pressure from melee classes as a 28m range support it most certainly isn't because your positioning sucks.

    That said, BMs are broken as fk in small scale PvP. But in large scale PvP they are absolutely worthless, as is any melee class without tidal/faith. As I'm sure the Edgerunner will be aswell.

    I'm waiting for videos to see how bad this will be.
    As I've said countless times BM have a lot of resources that demand chi. Resources that are essentials in all events PVP that we have in the game, including 1x1
    Making difficult the chi recover, will make the class start to be useless or underperforming.
    Time will tell
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited May 24
    red wrote: »
    I'm waiting for videos to see how bad this will be.
    As I've said countless times BM have a lot of resources that demand chi. Resources that are essentials in all events PVP that we have in the game, including 1x1
    Making difficult the chi recover, will make the class start to be useless or underperforming.
    Time will tell

    There's multiple things that have fkd BMs over the years and nothing has been given to BMs to compensate for it.

    1. Small, seemingly irrelevant, increments of evasion has been given to arcane classes, causing BMs to frequently miss on arcanes.
    2. Every class has been given an overdose of CC, whilst the BM has been given no additional tools to deal with it.
    3. Classes have been given knockbacks, but the BM has been given no tools to close the gap.
    4. Ranged classes have gained access to zerk, and melee classes have gained access to purge, which makes it impossible for BMs to fulfill the role of tank, since they've been given no proper tools to deal with it. The defensive procs are all significantly worse and they are all cooldown-based which support an in-and-out playstyle which caters much more to ranged classes than melee classes. Because when a melee class goes ''out'' it basically doesn't do anything anymore.

    I'll agree giving the class a ''1-shot button'' is a super dumb solution, and giving the class a 60 seconds ''do-whatever-the-****-you-want pass'' that Barbs got is even worse. But obviously they're not willing to compensate the classes for it at all. Maybe in China they play a more traditional style, where healers are purely focused on supporting the frontline so the problem isn't as noticable, but in PWI healers do whatever they want. It's also possible the melee:ranged ratio is a lot different in China, there aren't many BMs/Barbs left on PWI. Hell, the new Edgerunner class will help BMs a lil, since there's another melee class to share the pressure with. But the class has been really boring to play in mass PvP for a while now. Feels like I'm just waiting for my genie/immunes 90% of the time, because can't do anything without it.



    IGN: Madskillz
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    dingo488 wrote: »
    red wrote: »
    I'm waiting for videos to see how bad this will be.
    As I've said countless times BM have a lot of resources that demand chi. Resources that are essentials in all events PVP that we have in the game, including 1x1
    Making difficult the chi recover, will make the class start to be useless or underperforming.
    Time will tell

    There's multiple things that have fkd BMs over the years and nothing has been given to BMs to compensate for it.

    1. Small, seemingly irrelevant, increments of evasion has been given to arcane classes, causing BMs to frequently miss on arcanes.
    2. Every class has been given an overdose of CC, whilst the BM has been given no additional tools to deal with it.
    3. Classes have been given knockbacks, but the BM has been given no tools to close the gap.
    4. Ranged classes have gained access to zerk, and melee classes have gained access to purge, which makes it impossible for BMs to fulfill the role of tank, since they've been given no proper tools to deal with it. The defensive procs are all significantly worse and they are all cooldown-based which support an in-and-out playstyle which caters much more to ranged classes than melee classes. Because when a melee class goes ''out'' it basically doesn't do anything anymore.

    I'll agree giving the class a ''1-shot button'' is a super dumb solution, and giving the class a 60 seconds ''do-whatever-the-****-you-want pass'' that Barbs got is even worse. But obviously they're not willing to compensate the classes for it at all. Maybe in China they play a more traditional style, where healers are purely focused on supporting the frontline so the problem isn't as noticable, but in PWI healers do whatever they want. It's also possible the melee:ranged ratio is a lot different in China, there aren't many BMs/Barbs left on PWI. Hell, the new Edgerunner class will help BMs a lil, since there's another melee class to share the pressure with. But the class has been really boring to play in mass PvP for a while now. Feels like I'm just waiting for my genie/immunes 90% of the time, because can't do anything without it.

    Dingo, i agree with you. I remember when i received the notice that all classes would be acess to zerk:
    My reaction: -.-'

    Ok, now that I've gotten over it, I'm trying to understand what China understands and want to us, BMs.
    You perfectly summed up what I do in pvps and gvgs. If you look at my videos, I spend exactly 90% of the time looking at my genie and thinking: (go man, gogo, fast, run, i need to use u again sh! T).
    The class that borned to hold the damage and make the front line effectively is getting metal damage upgrades .... ??? ....
    Where is our dmg reduction and immunity against the news negative effects to stay ahead ??? Only Barbs have that, and now the new ranged class as well by a little time. I'm tired to be stoped by the dark stun casted by DB, Veno or Barbs with ranged glyph all the time during my way. Immune to the simples negative efects by 15 seconds is not being enought.
    The new skil that is a mix of Buddha Guard + Diamond sutra is useless for us. All the defs (Phy and Mag) is close to 95% to the most of BMs... more than this is exaggerated because it will no longer reduce the damage taked... Only to BM's that are growing up.
    By other side, i am very anxious for the passive skils, where in the leg we will have access to 10k (maximum) of accuracy... But we'll still fail in resistance.

    One question: what does C.C. means?
    "2. Every class has been given an overdose of CC, whilst the BM has been given no additional tools to deal with it."


  • aradrielaradriel Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited May 24
    red wrote: »
    One question: what does C.C. means?
    "2. Every class has been given an overdose of CC, whilst the BM has been given no additional tools to deal with it."

    CC = crowd control, can be broken into two types, hard CC's (that prevent any skill usage at all) like stun or paralyze, and soft CC's (that mess with your movement but you can still use skills) like immobilize/freeze or slow.
    Raging Tides/Tideswell
    Arandelle | Cleric
    Aradriela | Wizard
    Not-so-perfect world'er since Jan. 2010.
  • mysticblue#1834 mysticblue Posts: 92 Arc User
    Seekers certainly don't have too many CC skills as implied lol..
  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited June 26
    When was the last time the forum warrior bms actually did mass pvp?

    If you have a TW, where your side has like... 1 bm. Yeah that bm is gonna die a lot. But even IF HE DOES die (and he will), a bm always hits above their weight in mass pvp. With proper positioning for their dive in, they cc many people, debuff them, and probably lead to several deaths through their dmg or others. Then you factor in that a bm has genie, apoth, leaps on low cd, generally super high hp and defenses, and weapon procs, and most endgame bms do not die after their first dive in, or even the 2nd. And did I mention their damage can spike to the highest in the game when combining high base attack + hf + ulti + zerk + crit? Holy **** sht, x16 dmg boost.

    Now, realize what factions actually have: multiple bms. One bm runs in, stuns, leaps back. The NEXT bm runs and picks up right where the previous bm left off... then he retreats... then the NEXT NEXT bm runs in... you get the idea. These rolling waves of bm push back the enemy lines, with further assists from venos and, of course, the notorious stormbringers.

    Bms have a HUGE impact when they are in numbers. They are all relative tanky, they all has massive cc, and they have high mobility. Compared to many classes, they take a disproportionately long time to kill.

    A hypothetical question with an obvious answer: two factions in TW, each with 80 players, relatively equal in gear, numbers, and skill, but faction A has 5 bms and 15 archers, and faction B has 15 bms and 5 archers. All else is held equal. Who wins pushes? Who wins fights? You know, and I know, it isn't even a contest: the faction with the most bms wins by a LANDSLIDE. Successive waves of bms crashing into enemy lines, simultanously attacking and defending at once through their low cd, low-chi aoe stuns, while also individually locking specific, dangerous enemy targets with a low-cost 7-second paralyze from which there is no escape.

    Fact is, I am quite sure you can replace most endgame dmg classes with an endgame bm, and your faction will grow stronger as a result (exception: leave in place some venos and stormbringers). Archers? Replace with bm. Psychics? Replace with bm. Wizards? Replace with bm. Seeker? Low cc-REPLACE with bm. Duskblade? Replaceable by bm---in the context of having many bms in your faction, you don't need a less-tanky class as a front-line ccer that has less aoe range on their aoes and lower damage spikes. Barbs? Enough to pull catas, otherwise, replace with bm! Sure the heavy armors will take a bit longer to kill BUT the heavy armors won't be able to do jack SHT when they are locked almost permanently by a veritable army of bms. Given enough cc, and with just enough venos left in place for purges and stormbringers for their vortex/ulti, the heavy armors will die just the same, while arcanes/light armors? RIP. Not a chance.

    Some further anecdotal evidence. Dynasty fought Blacklist the other day in 60v60 DC fight. Dynasty had maybe 4 or 5 good bms. Blacklist had at least 8. Now, all things were not held equal, but I assure you, their bm # superiority was a HUGE contributing factor to their victory. In fact, their damage output wasn't really.. that high. Not compared to, say, Echo. But what they had instead was so much CC that you just couldn't do anything. And if you can't do anything for long enough, you die anyways. Each successive push by their bms chewed through more of our ground, and we were pushed back into our base over and over again, as bms, venos, and stormbringers made chunks of ground unplayable for us, making retreat the only option, since we did not have enough bms of our own to hold back their push. If you care to check a video, you can see that when the fight started and we were more spread out, we were somewhat holding, but once the fight started approaching our base and both factions became more condensed, their bms started hurting us really, really bad, and we lost ground with an increasingly rapid pace.

    To conclude, it can be stated that high dmg is good, but high cc is better, in the context of mass pvp. Therefore, BM, a class with high cc and moderately high dmg (with insane spikes) is a very powerful class already that certainly does not need anything in the way of improvements, and could arguably be toned down a bit by making it 'slightly' harder for them to cc endlessly.

    Edit for Red: I'm sorry that your version has weird prices that make things super hard/impossible to get. But in PWI, Paramount genie is getting more and more common, and endgame bms are all using a Paramount genie now, so chi is abundant. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain that bm has many tools involving pole/sword play that allows for greatly increased gain of chi. You know, maybe it takes a bit of skill, but bms are certainly not lacking in the chi-gain department like they used to be. What are all these chi-gain skills for if all of a bm's main ccs don't require chi??! A bm's cc SHOULD require some chi, or else the class just becomes so stupid easy to play. Just roar + dragon rising all day long with the occasional drake's bash as filler...
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  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    csquared5 wrote: »
    Edit for Red: I'm sorry that your version has weird prices that make things super hard/impossible to get. But in PWI, Paramount genie is getting more and more common, and endgame bms are all using a Paramount genie now, so chi is abundant. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain that bm has many tools involving pole/sword play that allows for greatly increased gain of chi. You know, maybe it takes a bit of skill, but bms are certainly not lacking in the chi-gain department like they used to be. What are all these chi-gain skills for if all of a bm's main ccs don't require chi??! A bm's cc SHOULD require some chi, or else the class just becomes so stupid easy to play. Just roar + dragon rising all day long with the occasional drake's bash as filler...

    I finally got to buy Genie, and it's really good.
    About replacing Psychics, Dusk, SK, and Wizards by BM ... I do not agree. Each of them has strong combos in the area, where if they have a good positioning, they destroy. My main friend that always does combo with me is a Seeker.

    About the skils, i asked to the guy of the video, the how strong is the new skils with metal dmg. Waiting he answer me.
    * The fusion of 79 (claw) and 100 (sword) lost a lot of things, and i think is not better than the old version. The only good thing is the metal dmg and the distance of cast with swords (20 meters). And lost the best animation of BM, of the 79 skil. I won't combine.
    * The new Buda's Guard... don't know, 5 minuts is a long time to wait, just to gain more magical and physical resistence... exaggerated. If was reduction... ok, but..more of the same...not. Today, more magical and physical resistence is not enought to reduce the damage taken. And i always use the Buda in PVPs , even if it recovers less HP than the new version, it runs faster.. 5 minutes x 30 seconds... I won't combine.
    * The new glyphable skil: Nice. Physical and metal damage with Red Glyph in 8 meters around the target. Very good.
    * New Teleport.. Nice too. More distant and with metal and physical dmg.
    There are some others skils that he didn't show in the video, but have metal dmg and 20 meters to cast too.
    About Nerf of chi.... accept and be happy xD
    Due all this, i'm studying do to a Pole with 80 def lvl instead Swords because Swords and Pole will have the same chi generation, and Swords will have a lot of damage with metal according to what I read. So a Sword with 70 atk lvl will be cool. But first, i need to confirm the real metalic damage, if it's good or not.
  • yawnyawnyawnyawn Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 26
    csquared5 wrote: »
    Fact is, I am quite sure you can replace most endgame dmg classes with an endgame bm, and your faction will grow stronger as a result (exception: leave in place some venos and stormbringers). Archers? Replace with bm. Psychics? Replace with bm. Wizards? Replace with bm. Seeker? Low cc-REPLACE with bm. Duskblade? Replaceable by bm---in the context of having many bms in your faction, you don't need a less-tanky class as a front-line ccer that has less aoe range on their aoes and lower damage spikes. Barbs? Enough to pull catas, otherwise, replace with bm! Sure the heavy armors will take a bit longer to kill BUT the heavy armors won't be able to do jack SHT when they are locked almost permanently by a veritable army of bms. Given enough cc, and with just enough venos left in place for purges and stormbringers for their vortex/ulti, the heavy armors will die just the same, while arcanes/light armors? RIP. Not a chance.

    Yeah, this might've been true 2 years ago where we had Candleflame players with a R9 weapons. A NP BM with G17 weapon can't compete with a NP Caster with G17 zerk weapon that is continuously triple sparking, in fact it's not even close. You'll get your **** 1shot as soon as you're not immune. It's not even comparable, a good archer never needs to stop attacking, or any good caster for that matter. Any melee class literally needs to be immune to even get to afford to attack anything.

    The main kicker here is that all these range classes can kill people without having to use resources. Genie/Apo, those are all resources and yeah as long as a BM uses them then they're pretty good for a little while, but everyone has those resources.

  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    yawnyawn wrote: »
    csquared5 wrote: »
    Fact is, I am quite sure you can replace most endgame dmg classes with an endgame bm, and your faction will grow stronger as a result (exception: leave in place some venos and stormbringers). Archers? Replace with bm. Psychics? Replace with bm. Wizards? Replace with bm. Seeker? Low cc-REPLACE with bm. Duskblade? Replaceable by bm---in the context of having many bms in your faction, you don't need a less-tanky class as a front-line ccer that has less aoe range on their aoes and lower damage spikes. Barbs? Enough to pull catas, otherwise, replace with bm! Sure the heavy armors will take a bit longer to kill BUT the heavy armors won't be able to do jack SHT when they are locked almost permanently by a veritable army of bms. Given enough cc, and with just enough venos left in place for purges and stormbringers for their vortex/ulti, the heavy armors will die just the same, while arcanes/light armors? RIP. Not a chance.

    Yeah, this might've been true 2 years ago where we had Candleflame players with a R9 weapons. A NP BM with G17 weapon can't compete with a NP Caster with G17 zerk weapon that is continuously triple sparking, in fact it's not even close. You'll get your **** 1shot as soon as you're not immune. It's not even comparable, a good archer never needs to stop attacking, or any good caster for that matter. Any melee class literally needs to be immune to even get to afford to attack anything.

    The main kicker here is that all these range classes can kill people without having to use resources. Genie/Apo, those are all resources and yeah as long as a BM uses them then they're pretty good for a little while, but everyone has those resources.

    This just hasn't been my experience mate. Rolling waves of bm are devastating. Maybe I understand: if you haven't fought a faction with literally twice the # of bms as yours, maybe you just don't understand their impact. That I can understand---you just haven't seen it yet. Rolling waves of bms is one of the scariest things possible to face; you feel so helpless because there is so little you can do to counter that many bms. When its just 1 or 2 bms, you focus them down and they aren't a threat, but when there are many of them, they are simply too tanky to all focus down 1 by 1. They crash into your lines one after the other and for every time they have to use THEIR genie, they are putting the genie of MANY of you on cd too. It is a highly efficient tradeoff, and after several volleys of this, our side starts to drop like flies---we can't sustain the cc pressure.

    I've seen the same thing in small-scale pvp as I've seen in mass pvp. Overwhelming cc can trump overwhelming damage. Thing is, those with overwhelming damage are usually squishy as well, so you use your own resources at the right time to block their dmg, counter cc, and then kill them with your own damage. But overwhelming cc combined with 'enough' damage to kill you 'perhaps not with absurd ease, but give it a few tries and they still get the job done) is far harder. Every time they combo on you, you might die, so you roll the dice and decide if you use genie or not. And they can repeat their cc/debuff combo over and over again.

    WHO HAS MORE IMPACT ON TW: SB OR PSY? CC OR DMG?
    WHO HAS MORE IMPACT ON TW? BM OR SEEKER? CC OR DMG?

    Obvious answer: CC. The answer is always 'cc + enough dmg' >>> 'low cc and high dmg'.

    I rest my case.
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  • happyhailhappyhail Posts: 112 Arc User
    Well, of course, BMs totally dominate TW and open PVP! Based on this thread, it's obvious that they're impossible-to-kill machines that can tank entire guilds on their own while randomly dealing 50K damage to absolutely everyone. That's why they're the highest threat of all melee classes and number one in targeting priority! Their main four skills only cost 4.5 sparks of Chi to use, and it's just absurd how spammable they are. BM really shouldn't generate so much Chi on every hit. I mean, they get the best upgrades and best glyphs of every class. It's not like they were forced into rather niche roles that excel at absolutely nothing while struggling to be mediocre because half their kit and 95% of their glyphs are completely useless or obsolete. I totally understand why every person is rushing out to roll BMs nows. I know I play on the backwater server of DA, but we're up to three whole BMs on the entire server that are actually moderately geared now! I can't wait till everyone else rerolls to the unkillable wrecking machine! Man, I should have known that all those dg-bots I see running around in instances are actually just people gearing up slowly so that they can learn the class. Boy, you guys sure showed me.
  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited July 2
    Bms haven't always been as strong as they are. If we think of the big cashers wanting to drop big bucks on the game, are they the sort of people content to pick a support class that maybe isn't the easiest to play, or maybe wasn't the strongest at the time? Probably not right? Most of the people dropping the big bucks on the game are going for high-dmg classes because they want to see the big damage numbers. Assassins. Psychics. Duskblades. Archers. Stormbringers. Seekers. You get the idea. People love the classes whose damage spikes up way high. Their 'purpose' is to land kills.

    What is the 'purpose' of a blademaster? Mostly, its to cc, debuff, tank, and then maybe do some damage when able. (Though nowadays that dmg they can do can spike up quite nicely, they are not a dps class persay).

    What is the 'purpose' of a cleric? Mostly, its to heal, tank when necessary, and cc/debuff when necessary/able to.

    Are these two classes the sort of sexy class that has attracted a lot of big spenders? Not really. Therefore, its not really a big surprise that bm, one of the more difficult classes to play well, and one that does require very good gear to play as it should be played, isn't a class that we see a lot of at endgame.

    BUT ONCE IT IS ENDGAME, bms are STRONG. Very very strong. Like barbs, bms become extremely powerful once they become tanky enough to dive into the enemy lines and... stay there for a while, sopping up dmg, and ccing everybody around them whenever they aren't stunned, and doing enough dmg/debuffs to threaten people into using their genie or else risk charm bypasses. Stormbringers are dangerous too, but they can't just stay in the middle of enemy lines all the time without dying fast. Venos can be tanky too but they can't do their aoe cc as often, and if they go tank build, then their damage is negligible, whereas a blademaster in full-strength build can be both tanky and have solid damage. Or, if a bm chooses to go the vit-build route, they lose their dmg at the tradeoff of becoming nearly unkillable. I've seen videos of a 50k-base-hp bm who simply never died (some guy on twilight temple server). He changed back eventually because he liked his 1v1 fun, but for mass pvp, a vit build is incredibly powerful. BM as a class has this option.

    With enough bms doing their aoe stun+disable weapon, they are able to collectively keep the enemy mostly-cced and also do enough dmg to kill, because 80 def lvl weps don't count for much when disabled after all, and heavens flame + tangling mire is enough to pressure even heavy armor classes once purged. Chi is abundant so its no longer difficult to stun + hf on a regular cycle. Furthermore the chi skill is low genie energy so its safe to spam it without sacrificing defenses.

    To conclude, the lack of endgame bms is not necessarily a tell for the fact that they are weak. They are anything but weak. They have just been under-selected as a class that big spenders choose to gear up and play as their main.

    P.S. Your sarcasm needs some work, because some of the things you say are true even though you meant them sarcastically. Bms *do* get focused the most in pvp, because they *are* so dangerous lol. Without that focus they just sit in the middle of your lines and keep you all cced. A sin may annoy a healer but they have far less overall impact on the flow of battle. Bms *are* tanky and if built with vit build, they can literally tank an entire squad, provided that some very OP debuffs aren't in place all at once. Bms *do* have some extremely powerful glyph upgrades, including the one that lets them one-shot people by consuming a bunch of chi. On my server, bm has the top-dmg score on the test npc, and the next highest isn't even close. Like barb, bms can nowadays spike their dmg up extremely high with the right combo. '4 main skills' cost 4.5 sparks. Prove it... I'd consider their main skills hf, dragon rising, roar, and... either some aoe, or leaps, or whatever, but either low chi gain/loss. So consider roar is 35 chi, hf with the right glyph is only like 1 spark? and dragon rising is no spark? That ain't even remotely close to 4.5 sparks bruh. And glacial spike, yes that is still 2 sparks, but thats mostly used in pve for boss nukes, since defensive debuffs are far less effective in pvp than hf. Oh, and yes--with enough bms, you can definitely have some use glacial spike while others do heavens flame, and then people really will die quite easily.
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  • hypnosian123hypnosian123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    bms get focused a lot not because they are dangerous but simply because they are front line, most of the players attack targets with the tab button, and you are very likely to tab front line bms.

    Game switched up that much in damage that there is really nothing at very endgame that can tank an entire squad, except properly def built assassins... an endgame bm at cap res values can get hit for his entire hp value without any debuffs by a DD class with same gears

    besides the fact that with the next patch, with venos getting the granted 0def, i really want to see how a bm(or any front line class) is gonna tank anything
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    The true is: Nobody can tank an entire squad nowadays. Simple like this.

    About damage of BM: I had a idea of to do something different.
    I "destroyed" the skill ɸHillborn, to get back Fissure and Highland Cleave. After this, i put Red glyph in ɸArmy Crusher.

    Obs.: It was necessary to destroy Hillborn because it is too slow to cast, causing all enemys get out of Stun in combo, but Fissure have a cast good enought to avoid this. It was also necessary to get back 2 area skils to leave the new "Explosive Area Skil" with Red Glyph to be used at appropriate times and kill every one around 12 meters =)

    Unfortunately I used the wrong skill, Highland Cleave instead of Fissure in the video, so everyone had the reduction activated again. But even so, the damage was violent. Read the description of video to more details.

    Result:
  • yawnyawnyawnyawn Posts: 7 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    About damage of BM: I had a idea of to do something different.
    I "destroyed" the skill ɸHillborn, to get back Fissure and Highland Cleave. After this, i put Red glyph in ɸArmy Crusher.

    I want to do this aswell, but I dont think its possible on our version :( Hillborn is so terrible and because it's a single skill you can't take Army Crusher. But as far as I'm aware, we can't split up those skills once combined.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    yawnyawn wrote: »
    red wrote: »
    About damage of BM: I had a idea of to do something different.
    I "destroyed" the skill ɸHillborn, to get back Fissure and Highland Cleave. After this, i put Red glyph in ɸArmy Crusher.

    I want to do this aswell, but I dont think its possible on our version :( Hillborn is so terrible and because it's a single skill you can't take Army Crusher. But as far as I'm aware, we can't split up those skills once combined.

    Yes, you can.
    You need to convert you cultivatin to GOD , and EVIL again. (or EVIL and GOD again) without "save" the skils.
    And You will need to get back again all lvl 11 skils, hemeasted Skils and Primal skils, except glyphs skils.
    Try it. This is a [email protected]#@ powerfull change to BM which guarantees a very high gross damage.
    =)
  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 148 Arc User
    I don't know what fantasy realm you live in where equally-geared arcanes regularly one shot endgame bms but that ain't PWI bruh.

    What you are probably imagining is something like Daniii (double-reawakened NP, god-like star chart, and +12 emperor) doing high dmg on regular endgame bms. In no way is this a valid comparison, for a number of reasons.

    1) the bm gear is way less in such case
    2) even though many cashers do pick damage classes, they don't all the means to gear them to *that* extent.
    3) even if there are a few dmg-dealers like Daniii, bms have these fancy things called stuns, which allow them to stop taking high dmg from outgeared arcanes. And when you add in lots of bms, you get lots of stuns, and lots of stuns = the bms take even less dmg because the enemy can't do jack sht most of the time.

    Give a bm the same gear (but defense-sharded) as some of these super-endgame damage dealers, and we see the real comparison: compare itoushira (however his name is spelled, ie, TheDan) vs any super-endgame arcane of your choice. Who you think comes out ahead? The 55k bm with outrageous physical and magic defenses, tons of cc, high dmg, and the ability to purge? Or the 39k hp arcane with significantly lower physical defense, a high magic defense that isn't relevant in this case, less cc, very high dmg, but no ability to purge? Come on. Admit it, you know how this ends. This is why 1v1 are always done self-buffed. In 'real' fights, where people get buffs, an arcane who can't purge just get creamed. No arcane gonna take down bm without that bm getting purged first. (Making veno the only arcane who can truly 1v1 anybody in any circumstance.)

    Now this comparison is more fair. And you see bm comes out very strong.

    Now even in the current meta, where damage dealers tend to somewhat outgear bms, when bms show up in numbers, they basically cover for each other. By keeping the enemy stunned a lot of the time, a bm has to tank less overall dmg. Stunned enemies don't hit back.

    Let me repeat that.

    Stunned enemies... DON'T HIT BACK.

    Bms have big aoe stuns, that disable wep so no proccing out of it. And many bms = many big, aoe stuns that disable weps so no proccing out of it. How is it not obvious to you how incredibly powerful it is to have many bms on your side? As an endgame arcane I am hugely, 100% reliant on my weapon procs to survive. No procs and I just die. Sometimes this is the case---bad lucks. So if we have enough bms negating my weapon's ability to proc, at some point I just... simply... die. Because a bm doesn't need to do as much dmg to kill me as I need to do to kill him. Not even close. And a bm's dmg spike, while not as frequent, can spike up higher than the arcane's can, with ulti and hf beating out anything classes like sb, psy, or wiz can bring to the table.

    And finally let me address this veno thing again.... ONE guaranteed proc every 2 minutes. Thats LOW. Look at some of Aemirah videos. If the luck spits the right way, she can get like 3 or 4 procs in 2 minutes. (I did the math a while back, but here it is again; assume an average of 10s for iw attempt, with a 20% success rate, = average of 50 seconds per iw proc, or over 2 iw procs in 2 minutes. In actual fact iw cd is 8 seconds, so if, in case where veno literally was able to do an iw every 8 seconds, then the math works out to 40 seconds per iw attempt... but I'm making some allowances here for the other things veno do. And two sparks cost! As it currently stands, in mass pvp, iw procs is a death sentence anyways. And if you block it, you could just, randomly, get hit with another one 8 seconds later. But in the future, you know its coming so you can predict it. And when you can predict it, you can block it. And if you block it, you are safe from that veno for another 2 minutes. How is it not obvious that this type of setup is a nerf, not an upgrade?

    And furthermore, you ... seem to have inherently decided that the venos would go for the bms. Bms aren't the only people in melee range. There are dbs, sins... the odd enemy veno. Barbs. Seekers even. Many targets. Why do you assume that the veno would target the bm. WHY?! HA! You already know the answer. Why would a veno pick a bm? Because bms are the most **** DANGEROUS thing in melee range, and must be suppressed. Your own assumption about what venos do undermines your idea that bms are somehow a weak class. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    »Go back to sleep...« PWI Youtube Channel




  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    yawnyawn wrote: »
    red wrote: »
    About damage of BM: I had a idea of to do something different.
    I "destroyed" the skill ɸHillborn, to get back Fissure and Highland Cleave. After this, i put Red glyph in ɸArmy Crusher.

    I want to do this aswell, but I dont think its possible on our version :( Hillborn is so terrible and because it's a single skill you can't take Army Crusher. But as far as I'm aware, we can't split up those skills once combined.

    Yes, you can.
    You need to convert you cultivatin to GOD , and EVIL again. (or EVIL and GOD again) without "save" the skils.
    And You will need to get back again all lvl 11 skils, hemeasted Skils and Primal skils, except glyphs skils.
    Try it. This is a [email protected]#@ powerfull change to BM which guarantees a very high gross damage.
    =)

    Completing: The gear of the BM in the video: https://mypers.pw/14/#900381
    .
  • hypnosian123hypnosian123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    @Aeliah - Dreamweaver we are talking mass, in mass your def charms are pretty much always down especially if you are frontline,
    in mass you can't aoe stun everyone, there will be still someone hitting you,
    i've been 1hitting portal bms with no debuffs when i had 3x 2S set, a properly built psy can do that aswell without daniii's sort of gears... be demon 3spark tide ult u r gonna crit or zerk him for his hps

    an arcane char at 3x2S with a proper 20apti chart can delete HAs, a psy of said sort of gears with that combo reaches 170k base damage and 60% crit rate, add a zerk weapon and there you go

    also fyi bms are the class that suffer the least from debuffs
  • yawnyawnyawnyawn Posts: 7 Arc User
    csquared5 wrote: »
    Now even in the current meta, where damage dealers tend to somewhat outgear bms, when bms show up in numbers, they basically cover for each other. By keeping the enemy stunned a lot of the time, a bm has to tank less overall dmg. Stunned enemies don't hit back.

    Let me repeat that.

    Stunned enemies... DON'T HIT BACK.

    And furthermore, you ... seem to have inherently decided that the venos would go for the bms. Bms aren't the only people in melee range. There are dbs, sins... the odd enemy veno. Barbs. Seekers even. Many targets. Why do you assume that the veno would target the bm. WHY?! HA! You already know the answer. Why would a veno pick a bm? Because bms are the most **** DANGEROUS thing in melee range, and must be suppressed. Your own assumption about what venos do undermines your idea that bms are somehow a weak class. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I like how you establish that CC'd targets can't fight back, but at the same time fully assume that the BM is the one that stuns first. Not all the classes with 27m+ range. Not the classes with stuns on their gapclosers. Not the classes that can puffbird the BM from range. But it's the BM that literally has to walk into melee range to CC people, despite having next to 0 skills that actually stop him from getting stunned himself, or having next to no skills that allow him to instantly get in melee range, that has priority and should be stunning first. A likely story... Truth is this hasn't been the case for years, every single class in the game has CC priority over the BM now, which in mass PK means that the BM either immunes or just straight up dies before the CC is over.

    Also, the reason venos should go for BMs isn't because of how OP BMs are, it's because of how easy it is to kill them. A veno can't shut down a Barb/Sin/DB like that, these classes either have resistance to CC or are incredibly mobile and have access to multiple immunes. In mass PK you don't go for the big threats first, only an idiot would think this is a good idea, in mass PK you go for the easy pickings first, kill the people most easy to kill. But if you feel like you'd rather spend your efforts focussing on a sin in tidal, a barb with faith, or a DB with all his immunes still up, you do you, I sure as hell know people on my server are dumb enough to prioritize these targets.

  • lv100togekisslv100togekiss Posts: 32 Arc User
    Just want to chime in that BMs do have distance CC. Thou it is a chance to freeze, I can definitely slow you down. Argent on Drake's Ray. I got 28m for that, and 30m with Oceans Edge. And still rolling for a third range to increase it even further. Or a lv8 glyph to multiply it again. The math is weird thou. I have over 8m range, but x3 somehow is 30m for Oceans.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    Just want to chime in that BMs do have distance CC. Thou it is a chance to freeze, I can definitely slow you down. Argent on Drake's Ray. I got 28m for that, and 30m with Oceans Edge. And still rolling for a third range to increase it even further. Or a lv8 glyph to multiply it again. The math is weird thou. I have over 8m range, but x3 somehow is 30m for Oceans.

    Know, i was thinking about this last week.
    Everybody is accustomed to see all the Red Glyphs of BM being used very close the target. BUT If i put the Green Glyph in Drake and Red Glyph in Ocean.... SURPRISE.
    Good side: You 'll can use the Ferocious Leap to recover Chi. Or use the Ocean to kill in distance.
    Bad side: Loses the chi recovery by blue glyph in the Drake.
    I think i'll try.... Mainly in Arena Guan Yu and TW.....

    But Now... You said 28/30 meters to Ocean with Drake in the green glyph level 8.... Not.. i think this is wrong. It's too far. With Drake, the distance of both skils become 20 meters too (Ferocious Leap and Ocean's Edge). Unless you use a Pike maybe you can get so far, but I don't think you have a Pike good enough to do damage instead of a axe. Tell me more, i would like to know. Maybe i'm wrong too.
  • lv100togekisslv100togekiss Posts: 32 Arc User
    I have the r8rr pole with two range adds. It has 4.5 base, then a 1.5 and 1.75 addition, for 7.75 range.

    I'm rounding up to 8 for some easy math, and to help explain my confusion. At 8m, Drake's Ray gives 2x + 12. So 28m works. But when I use Ferocious or Oceans, I don't have to step forward. I could go back a little and still be in range.

    8x3 is only 24m. Should still need to walk going by the math. Feels more like it's x4 for a lv5 glyph.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 47 Arc User
    I have the r8rr pole with two range adds. It has 4.5 base, then a 1.5 and 1.75 addition, for 7.75 range.

    I'm rounding up to 8 for some easy math, and to help explain my confusion. At 8m, Drake's Ray gives 2x + 12. So 28m works. But when I use Ferocious or Oceans, I don't have to step forward. I could go back a little and still be in range.

    8x3 is only 24m. Should still need to walk going by the math. Feels more like it's x4 for a lv5 glyph.

    Niiiiice guy!! You gave me a idea.
    in Arena ... with a Polo with range adds.... i use Ultimate, and with Polo: Dragon Rising, Drake and Ocean's Edge with red glyph.... the Target will die without see of where.

    But first, i need a Polo with rage adds :blush:
  • uchijawaruchijawar Posts: 58 Arc User
    Ok so based in all updates news we have seen (0) means 1 month more skill fixing? Update? Maybe other year?
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