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NEW SKILS WITH GLITHES MARCH 2019

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  • hypnosian123hypnosian123 Posts: 77 Arc User
    for who wants to bother with chinese
    this should be live stream of new skills and gameplay
    http://w2i.wanmei.com/hd/1903/active/index.html
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    All these troll demon DBs talking lol. PLEASE come to cross pvp events!!!! PLEEEEAAASSSEEE! Before you all quit DB bc you're terrible at them, come to Cross Server Events!! WTB> Server Merge <3 AliceTheMad :)

    It wasn't meant to be a discussion. It was a service announcement. Don't worry, we can teach you!

    "preacher of demon dbs" lol This guy serious?? Now who is the troll? I bet he also preaches for deity clerics and sage venos. I hope he never uninstalls as we need people to make us laugh. :) Have fun jumping back to your archer after the "nerf". Hope to find you in PK :wink:

    Sure, be a Sage DB. I could bet quite a bit of money that after the nerf, while being sage, equal gears, I floor you with an archer 10 out of 10. Remember, equal gears, ppl can only gain this kind of confidence in a garbage cultivation if they make up their lack of skill, foresight, knowledge with insane gear, enabling them to still kill loads of ppl and getting the wrong impression that they are good. Boi, come 1v1 vs decent ppl, that know everything about the DB class and know how to work around it and you will realize how limited both your skill and the sage cultivation is.

    PS: Have fun with your garbage Ripple while I just Stun you from range while you use it and you get AAed to hell. Fun times.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited April 11
    ABOUT BM (Bad News):

    I was reading the raw archive from China, and i found 2 nerfs to BM that wasn't showed as main changes. All this need to be confirmed:

    1. Even with white glyph, Dragon Rising will spend 80 chi. It losted the extra add where it shows that recover 80 chi. (the worst change)
    2. Star Smite losted the add that give 35 of extra chi if you use the skil with swords.

    Other details about the new skils that is not soo good like i was thinking:
    The new combined Skil (Flash + Bolt of Tyreseus):
    Nowadays, Bold of Tyreseus deal damage around the target but in this new version in the raw archive say that the skil hits just one target. It'll never miss and even hold the BM for 5 seconds on the ground , but lost the debuffs (slow, increased channeling, APS reduction) and don't need 100 chi to use (about chi, i need to confirm). If this is correct i won't mix the skils. The area damage and the debuff are better for me.

    If the raw informations will be right, BM's will have problems again with chi, and the red glyphs will be more complicated to be used. 80 chi being spent again with Dragon Rising and just 15 being generate with Star Smite will be a problem.

    All of this changes i found here, posted by Asterelle: https://www.diffchecker.com/sn02O28e
    Post edited by heero200 on
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    Depends. Maybe they just fixed Dragon Rising and the Chi recover effect only applies with Swords now, as it was intended. that is a massive nerf yes, but will require better chi management and more skillful play. Like DB nerfs I welcome this. The loss of the additional Chi on Star Smite is a big slap in the face for demon BMs tho. We will see.

    No one ever uses BoT anyways, at least in PWI, there are a dozen better skills to use in nearly any situation, so this change hardly bothers me at all. The thing is...where is the Flash part? Does it deal more damage and can be used with swords as well? If so, that would be nice, if not, meh, not like many ppl use either skill anyways atm so you could mix them anyway.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited April 10
    Depends. Maybe they just fixed Dragon Rising and the Chi recover effect only applies with Swords now, as it was intended. that is a massive nerf yes, but will require better chi management and more skillful play. Like DB nerfs I welcome this. The loss of the additional Chi on Star Smite is a big slap in the face for demon BMs tho. We will see.

    No one ever uses BoT anyways, at least in PWI, there are a dozen better skills to use in nearly any situation, so this change hardly bothers me at all. The thing is...where is the Flash part? Does it deal more damage and can be used with swords as well? If so, that would be nice, if not, meh, not like many ppl use either skill anyways atm so you could mix them anyway.



    The Flash part is just the use of swords. The damage of this skil stay with the BoT configurations. In other words.... they just mix the skil to avoid to spent more time upgrading each one of it. For me all this changes in the new skill could be just a upgrade of BoT. The Flash could receive a particular upgrade for him.

    Lost chi of Dragon Rising is a problem because i (and i imagine all BM's) was used to use Dragon Rising and use red glyphs. But now, the damage will be reduced because recover 80 chi requer a long time that in a lot of times, we don't have.
    Post edited by red#4565 on
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    Depends. Maybe they just fixed Dragon Rising and the Chi recover effect only applies with Swords now, as it was intended. that is a massive nerf yes, but will require better chi management and more skillful play. Like DB nerfs I welcome this. The loss of the additional Chi on Star Smite is a big slap in the face for demon BMs tho. We will see.

    No one ever uses BoT anyways, at least in PWI, there are a dozen better skills to use in nearly any situation, so this change hardly bothers me at all. The thing is...where is the Flash part? Does it deal more damage and can be used with swords as well? If so, that would be nice, if not, meh, not like many ppl use either skill anyways atm so you could mix them anyway.



    The Flash part is just the use of swords. The damage of this skil stay with the BoT configurations. In other words.... they just mix the skil to avoid to spent more time upgrading each one of it. For me all this changes in the new skill could be just a upgrade of BoT. The Flash could receive a particular upgrade for him.

    Lost chi of Dragon Rising is a problem because i (and i imagine all BM's) was used to use Dragon Rising and use red glyphs. But now, the damage will be reduced because recover 80 chi requer a long time that in a lot of times, we don't have.

    Like I said, it depends on what you wanna do. In 1v1 with a paramount genie (2 sparks gained every 30 seconds virtually for free) and ofc blue glyphs on all spamable skills (army, fero, drake and golden on HF), like back in the day. If the change for the argent glyph on Dragon Rising only affects all weapons besides blades/Swords then it is not a big deal. BMs are extremely overpowered in 1v1 atm if you are damage built. Just a deity BM with 60k+ base damage kann easily OS all AA/LA with a ZC on a red glyphed skill with 0 debuffs, just off def charm. This will hardly change. You can just use Dragon Rising with a sword, use any random skill to get rid of the 2nd def charm, switch to your main DD weap and the enemy might die.

    Even if that's not the case, 80 chi if you start with full chi can easily be recovered by blue glyphed army/fero/drake and you still got time to cast, lets say red glyphed River Avalanche and kill the target with it without any problem. Then, you just use the Chi skill from your paramount genie and you are at the same full chi level as before. 1v1 will still be very easy for BMs.

    In mass pvp it might be a problem because you need to pay more attention yet again but seriously...there are still BMs out there that didnt even know about the argent glyphs chi regain...despite my video and efforts to spread it. Anything that works against no-brain gameplay and forces ppl to pay more attention is good. No, Very good. Hence the nerf for DBs and BMs now is amazing and very welcome.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    Depends. Maybe they just fixed Dragon Rising and the Chi recover effect only applies with Swords now, as it was intended. that is a massive nerf yes, but will require better chi management and more skillful play. Like DB nerfs I welcome this. The loss of the additional Chi on Star Smite is a big slap in the face for demon BMs tho. We will see.

    No one ever uses BoT anyways, at least in PWI, there are a dozen better skills to use in nearly any situation, so this change hardly bothers me at all. The thing is...where is the Flash part? Does it deal more damage and can be used with swords as well? If so, that would be nice, if not, meh, not like many ppl use either skill anyways atm so you could mix them anyway.



    The Flash part is just the use of swords. The damage of this skil stay with the BoT configurations. In other words.... they just mix the skil to avoid to spent more time upgrading each one of it. For me all this changes in the new skill could be just a upgrade of BoT. The Flash could receive a particular upgrade for him.

    Lost chi of Dragon Rising is a problem because i (and i imagine all BM's) was used to use Dragon Rising and use red glyphs. But now, the damage will be reduced because recover 80 chi requer a long time that in a lot of times, we don't have.

    Like I said, it depends on what you wanna do. In 1v1 with a paramount genie (2 sparks gained every 30 seconds virtually for free) and ofc blue glyphs on all spamable skills (army, fero, drake and golden on HF), like back in the day. If the change for the argent glyph on Dragon Rising only affects all weapons besides blades/Swords then it is not a big deal. BMs are extremely overpowered in 1v1 atm if you are damage built. Just a deity BM with 60k+ base damage kann easily OS all AA/LA with a ZC on a red glyphed skill with 0 debuffs, just off def charm. This will hardly change. You can just use Dragon Rising with a sword, use any random skill to get rid of the 2nd def charm, switch to your main DD weap and the enemy might die.

    Even if that's not the case, 80 chi if you start with full chi can easily be recovered by blue glyphed army/fero/drake and you still got time to cast, lets say red glyphed River Avalanche and kill the target with it without any problem. Then, you just use the Chi skill from your paramount genie and you are at the same full chi level as before. 1v1 will still be very easy for BMs.

    In mass pvp it might be a problem because you need to pay more attention yet again but seriously...there are still BMs out there that didnt even know about the argent glyphs chi regain...despite my video and efforts to spread it. Anything that works against no-brain gameplay and forces ppl to pay more attention is good. No, Very good. Hence the nerf for DBs and BMs now is amazing and very welcome.

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    red wrote: »
    Depends. Maybe they just fixed Dragon Rising and the Chi recover effect only applies with Swords now, as it was intended. that is a massive nerf yes, but will require better chi management and more skillful play. Like DB nerfs I welcome this. The loss of the additional Chi on Star Smite is a big slap in the face for demon BMs tho. We will see.

    No one ever uses BoT anyways, at least in PWI, there are a dozen better skills to use in nearly any situation, so this change hardly bothers me at all. The thing is...where is the Flash part? Does it deal more damage and can be used with swords as well? If so, that would be nice, if not, meh, not like many ppl use either skill anyways atm so you could mix them anyway.



    The Flash part is just the use of swords. The damage of this skil stay with the BoT configurations. In other words.... they just mix the skil to avoid to spent more time upgrading each one of it. For me all this changes in the new skill could be just a upgrade of BoT. The Flash could receive a particular upgrade for him.

    Lost chi of Dragon Rising is a problem because i (and i imagine all BM's) was used to use Dragon Rising and use red glyphs. But now, the damage will be reduced because recover 80 chi requer a long time that in a lot of times, we don't have.

    Like I said, it depends on what you wanna do. In 1v1 with a paramount genie (2 sparks gained every 30 seconds virtually for free) and ofc blue glyphs on all spamable skills (army, fero, drake and golden on HF), like back in the day. If the change for the argent glyph on Dragon Rising only affects all weapons besides blades/Swords then it is not a big deal. BMs are extremely overpowered in 1v1 atm if you are damage built. Just a deity BM with 60k+ base damage kann easily OS all AA/LA with a ZC on a red glyphed skill with 0 debuffs, just off def charm. This will hardly change. You can just use Dragon Rising with a sword, use any random skill to get rid of the 2nd def charm, switch to your main DD weap and the enemy might die.

    Even if that's not the case, 80 chi if you start with full chi can easily be recovered by blue glyphed army/fero/drake and you still got time to cast, lets say red glyphed River Avalanche and kill the target with it without any problem. Then, you just use the Chi skill from your paramount genie and you are at the same full chi level as before. 1v1 will still be very easy for BMs.

    In mass pvp it might be a problem because you need to pay more attention yet again but seriously...there are still BMs out there that didnt even know about the argent glyphs chi regain...despite my video and efforts to spread it. Anything that works against no-brain gameplay and forces ppl to pay more attention is good. No, Very good. Hence the nerf for DBs and BMs now is amazing and very welcome.

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.

    What is a daimon? And ofc you can use the paramount chi skill with any class basically on CD, you won't lose out much in 1v1 at all. Most classes can be blocked by low energy cost genie skills like Hearts of Skill, Nullify Poison, Oxygen Bubble, Soul of Fire and Expel, all of which have somewhat low energy costs. The 50 energy needed for the 2 spark skill in combination with the control and CC BMs have is enough to always have a save ready anyways, even if you spam the chi skill every 30 seconds. Even a full damage built BM is tanky enough to not instantly die to almost all classes, even if you genie really is completely in Cooldown for a while.

    But even without paramount...a damage built BM demolishes most classes in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat if you know what you are doing, dragon rising nerf or not, doesnt even matter. For most ppl you dont even need to use a Red glyphed skill with full chi. 2 sparks or 3 sparks are often enough to kill or charmbypass squishy caster. Equal gears...any caster, esp jaded ones, will struggle to even kill a BM without genie in mag marrow and deity ones simply die to a BMs skill spam..there you dont even need any form of red glyphed skill xD

    BMs are fine and one of the most broken classes. Ofc, massive CC, massive tankieness and massive damage/debuffs...welp. Easy to figure that out. Survival is always dependend on how effective you play and how well you know the classes you are fighting against.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    red wrote: »

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.

    What is a daimon? And ofc you can use the paramount chi skill with any class basically on CD, you won't lose out much in 1v1 at all. Most classes can be blocked by low energy cost genie skills like Hearts of Skill, Nullify Poison, Oxygen Bubble, Soul of Fire and Expel, all of which have somewhat low energy costs. The 50 energy needed for the 2 spark skill in combination with the control and CC BMs have is enough to always have a save ready anyways, even if you spam the chi skill every 30 seconds. Even a full damage built BM is tanky enough to not instantly die to almost all classes, even if you genie really is completely in Cooldown for a while.

    But even without paramount...a damage built BM demolishes most classes in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat if you know what you are doing, dragon rising nerf or not, doesnt even matter. For most ppl you dont even need to use a Red glyphed skill with full chi. 2 sparks or 3 sparks are often enough to kill or charmbypass squishy caster. Equal gears...any caster, esp jaded ones, will struggle to even kill a BM without genie in mag marrow and deity ones simply die to a BMs skill spam..there you dont even need any form of red glyphed skill xD

    BMs are fine and one of the most broken classes. Ofc, massive CC, massive tankieness and massive damage/debuffs...welp. Easy to figure that out. Survival is always dependend on how effective you play and how well you know the classes you are fighting against.

    Sorry kkkk, "Daimon" here in the Brazil is what u call here of "genie". I mixed the languages....
    So, about the theme, BM have problems to kill SK, and BARB. It's necessary the use of red glyphs with full chi, otherwise it will fail. These classes are very strong.
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    red wrote: »

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.

    What is a daimon? And ofc you can use the paramount chi skill with any class basically on CD, you won't lose out much in 1v1 at all. Most classes can be blocked by low energy cost genie skills like Hearts of Skill, Nullify Poison, Oxygen Bubble, Soul of Fire and Expel, all of which have somewhat low energy costs. The 50 energy needed for the 2 spark skill in combination with the control and CC BMs have is enough to always have a save ready anyways, even if you spam the chi skill every 30 seconds. Even a full damage built BM is tanky enough to not instantly die to almost all classes, even if you genie really is completely in Cooldown for a while.

    But even without paramount...a damage built BM demolishes most classes in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat if you know what you are doing, dragon rising nerf or not, doesnt even matter. For most ppl you dont even need to use a Red glyphed skill with full chi. 2 sparks or 3 sparks are often enough to kill or charmbypass squishy caster. Equal gears...any caster, esp jaded ones, will struggle to even kill a BM without genie in mag marrow and deity ones simply die to a BMs skill spam..there you dont even need any form of red glyphed skill xD

    BMs are fine and one of the most broken classes. Ofc, massive CC, massive tankieness and massive damage/debuffs...welp. Easy to figure that out. Survival is always dependend on how effective you play and how well you know the classes you are fighting against.

    Sorry kkkk, "Daimon" here in the Brazil is what u call here of "genie". I mixed the languages....
    So, about the theme, BM have problems to kill SK, and BARB. It's necessary the use of red glyphs with full chi, otherwise it will fail. These classes are very strong.

    Well yes, However, if you compare a +3 Stone def seeker vs a +3 stone att BM, both same gear, no G17.5 80 Def level weap, the BM still has a great chance to kill the seeker. The possible offensive time-frames of Seeker while being paralyzed by a BM and/or stunned are quite low..outplaying a BM so that his genie is off while being immune to Counter-CC is not easy at all and if a BM combined ulti + HF he can deal significant damage to seeker as well, even more so if you go all out and use Glacial Spike + Mire as well. Barbs are a little harder if they can OS you with Arma. If they can't then they are actually quite easy. Non-damage built barbs will most certainly never kill a BM and a BM with equal gears can easily hit 40k on a Barb in human form with a red glyphed skill and just Extreme Poison. With Ulti we are already talking about potential Oneshots.

    BM, Seeker and Barb just massively sucks if all of them are defensive built. That is nearly pointless. IF you compare them to all other classes BMs just walk over anything that is not a BM, Barb or seeker because they have enough damage to Oneshot all the other classes. Same goes for a Barb. BM is still stronger in that regard because their combo is far less predictable and has a way lower effective CD than a Barbs combo but I agree. BM vs seeker or barb is not an easy win like vs the other classes, it vastly depends on how good the Barb and seeker are.
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    red wrote: »
    red wrote: »

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.

    What is a daimon? And ofc you can use the paramount chi skill with any class basically on CD, you won't lose out much in 1v1 at all. Most classes can be blocked by low energy cost genie skills like Hearts of Skill, Nullify Poison, Oxygen Bubble, Soul of Fire and Expel, all of which have somewhat low energy costs. The 50 energy needed for the 2 spark skill in combination with the control and CC BMs have is enough to always have a save ready anyways, even if you spam the chi skill every 30 seconds. Even a full damage built BM is tanky enough to not instantly die to almost all classes, even if you genie really is completely in Cooldown for a while.

    But even without paramount...a damage built BM demolishes most classes in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat if you know what you are doing, dragon rising nerf or not, doesnt even matter. For most ppl you dont even need to use a Red glyphed skill with full chi. 2 sparks or 3 sparks are often enough to kill or charmbypass squishy caster. Equal gears...any caster, esp jaded ones, will struggle to even kill a BM without genie in mag marrow and deity ones simply die to a BMs skill spam..there you dont even need any form of red glyphed skill xD

    BMs are fine and one of the most broken classes. Ofc, massive CC, massive tankieness and massive damage/debuffs...welp. Easy to figure that out. Survival is always dependend on how effective you play and how well you know the classes you are fighting against.

    Sorry kkkk, "Daimon" here in the Brazil is what u call here of "genie". I mixed the languages....
    So, about the theme, BM have problems to kill SK, and BARB. It's necessary the use of red glyphs with full chi, otherwise it will fail. These classes are very strong.

    Well yes, However, if you compare a +3 Stone def seeker vs a +3 stone att BM, both same gear, no G17.5 80 Def level weap, the BM still has a great chance to kill the seeker. The possible offensive time-frames of Seeker while being paralyzed by a BM and/or stunned are quite low..outplaying a BM so that his genie is off while being immune to Counter-CC is not easy at all and if a BM combined ulti + HF he can deal significant damage to seeker as well, even more so if you go all out and use Glacial Spike + Mire as well. Barbs are a little harder if they can OS you with Arma. If they can't then they are actually quite easy. Non-damage built barbs will most certainly never kill a BM and a BM with equal gears can easily hit 40k on a Barb in human form with a red glyphed skill and just Extreme Poison. With Ulti we are already talking about potential Oneshots.

    BM, Seeker and Barb just massively sucks if all of them are defensive built. That is nearly pointless. IF you compare them to all other classes BMs just walk over anything that is not a BM, Barb or seeker because they have enough damage to Oneshot all the other classes. Same goes for a Barb. BM is still stronger in that regard because their combo is far less predictable and has a way lower effective CD than a Barbs combo but I agree. BM vs seeker or barb is not an easy win like vs the other classes, it vastly depends on how good the Barb and seeker are.

    How does one not build a seeker defensively? Having a attack shards? Or not a offensive starchart? On a seeker both seem rediculous can you elaborate your point there? Perhaps if you play full def but attack seekers are just LOL imo.

    The damage bms can get is legit insane but it’s still killable even with a 80 def wep with a marginal amount of work 2-3 arcanes after purge and 1 toon ccing. It’s doable. A sin same gears no thanks you can 10 man gank it and the sin will deny you it. I’m more indifferent towards bm getting stupid damage as opposed to a sin.

    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    red wrote: »
    red wrote: »

    Everything revolves around the "New Genie". This is the problem. We need to spent money now just to have a complet and effective use of the skils.

    $_$

    And even at 1v1, pvp, GvG, DW ... spending a daimon to generate chi in this way will result in a lack of defensive skils when you need it. You can not use the daimon that way. BM is very well with the consumption of chi that has.

    What is a daimon? And ofc you can use the paramount chi skill with any class basically on CD, you won't lose out much in 1v1 at all. Most classes can be blocked by low energy cost genie skills like Hearts of Skill, Nullify Poison, Oxygen Bubble, Soul of Fire and Expel, all of which have somewhat low energy costs. The 50 energy needed for the 2 spark skill in combination with the control and CC BMs have is enough to always have a save ready anyways, even if you spam the chi skill every 30 seconds. Even a full damage built BM is tanky enough to not instantly die to almost all classes, even if you genie really is completely in Cooldown for a while.

    But even without paramount...a damage built BM demolishes most classes in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat if you know what you are doing, dragon rising nerf or not, doesnt even matter. For most ppl you dont even need to use a Red glyphed skill with full chi. 2 sparks or 3 sparks are often enough to kill or charmbypass squishy caster. Equal gears...any caster, esp jaded ones, will struggle to even kill a BM without genie in mag marrow and deity ones simply die to a BMs skill spam..there you dont even need any form of red glyphed skill xD

    BMs are fine and one of the most broken classes. Ofc, massive CC, massive tankieness and massive damage/debuffs...welp. Easy to figure that out. Survival is always dependend on how effective you play and how well you know the classes you are fighting against.

    Sorry kkkk, "Daimon" here in the Brazil is what u call here of "genie". I mixed the languages....
    So, about the theme, BM have problems to kill SK, and BARB. It's necessary the use of red glyphs with full chi, otherwise it will fail. These classes are very strong.

    Well yes, However, if you compare a +3 Stone def seeker vs a +3 stone att BM, both same gear, no G17.5 80 Def level weap, the BM still has a great chance to kill the seeker. The possible offensive time-frames of Seeker while being paralyzed by a BM and/or stunned are quite low..outplaying a BM so that his genie is off while being immune to Counter-CC is not easy at all and if a BM combined ulti + HF he can deal significant damage to seeker as well, even more so if you go all out and use Glacial Spike + Mire as well. Barbs are a little harder if they can OS you with Arma. If they can't then they are actually quite easy. Non-damage built barbs will most certainly never kill a BM and a BM with equal gears can easily hit 40k on a Barb in human form with a red glyphed skill and just Extreme Poison. With Ulti we are already talking about potential Oneshots.

    BM, Seeker and Barb just massively sucks if all of them are defensive built. That is nearly pointless. IF you compare them to all other classes BMs just walk over anything that is not a BM, Barb or seeker because they have enough damage to Oneshot all the other classes. Same goes for a Barb. BM is still stronger in that regard because their combo is far less predictable and has a way lower effective CD than a Barbs combo but I agree. BM vs seeker or barb is not an easy win like vs the other classes, it vastly depends on how good the Barb and seeker are.

    How does one not build a seeker defensively? Having a attack shards? Or not a offensive starchart? On a seeker both seem rediculous can you elaborate your point there? Perhaps if you play full def but attack seekers are just LOL imo.

    The damage bms can get is legit insane but it’s still killable even with a 80 def wep with a marginal amount of work 2-3 arcanes after purge and 1 toon ccing. It’s doable. A sin same gears no thanks you can 10 man gank it and the sin will deny you it. I’m more indifferent towards bm getting stupid damage as opposed to a sin.

    xD I wasn't talking about an offensive built seeker. OFC seeker need as many Def level as possible no matter what. Sure, switchable endgame helmet/robe/neck/belt just for def/att is legit but not neccesary and extremely expensive. Other than that, more def lvl is always better for a seeker.

    You are only indifferent to BMs because we don't have many good ones and even a devil stone BM..purged..if he has a 80 def weap and a decent proc on it they can be nearly unkillable if they manage to get their marrow and selfbuff up again, leaps also help survival quite a bit. Max geared sins have it too easy tho, yes, they basically just need to switch to def weap and tank only a short time until tidal/ult/genie/stealth is ready again and they can kite away and otherwise just trip spark and jump ppl and pray for ZC. BMs on single targets are more dangerous tho because they don't neccessarily need RNG to kill you, a BM + Mystic will 100% make sure you drop dead, no matter your weapon/proc/genie. But Disarm + genie block is the most broken thing ever anyways, so meh :D
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    xD I wasn't talking about an offensive built seeker. OFC seeker need as many Def level as possible no matter what. Sure, switchable endgame helmet/robe/neck/belt just for def/att is legit but not neccesary and extremely expensive. Other than that, more def lvl is always better for a seeker.

    You are only indifferent to BMs because we don't have many good ones and even a devil stone BM..purged..if he has a 80 def weap and a decent proc on it they can be nearly unkillable if they manage to get their marrow and selfbuff up again, leaps also help survival quite a bit. Max geared sins have it too easy tho, yes, they basically just need to switch to def weap and tank only a short time until tidal/ult/genie/stealth is ready again and they can kite away and otherwise just trip spark and jump ppl and pray for ZC. BMs on single targets are more dangerous tho because they don't neccessarily need RNG to kill you, a BM + Mystic will 100% make sure you drop dead, no matter your weapon/proc/genie. But Disarm + genie block is the most broken thing ever anyways, so meh :D

    Really.... BM and SK together are very dangerous and no matter what u do, the result will be the same.

    However, my squad of Arena Guan Yu sometimes faces a other squad that have a SK full def lvl 3 with weapon +80def lvl, a MS +80def lvl and a EP with up3 (+40atk lvl).
    EP = (i don't know the name of the skil in english) hold the target on the ground and gives him a damage's reduction by 15 seconds.
    SK = (i don't know the name of the skil in english either kkkk) hit a non elemental damage with white glyph in 5 seconds (i think).
    MS = bloq the Genie of the target

    Result = Death kkkkk
  • uchijawaruchijawar Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited April 12
    If what Red saying is true bms can't do nothing without chi , we as bms only depend of chi for everything since a ddg or dragon rising are very important for any combo PvP or mass PvP this is a big lost for bms if that change comes true I know that China bms are like king class and sins weakness class so they powerfull each time sins but official server they are best DMG class

    If we say that bms can use genie for avoid this change means that we are wasting 30 secs for genie charge in that 30 secs we may lost hf if it's miss 30 secs of an ad that can save us of a zc of sin db arna barb

    So hope those changes no apply for official servers or bms will be bored soon
  • mysticblue#1834 mysticblue Posts: 87 Arc User
    I see a lot of lecturing and possibilites possibilities and infinite possibilities being spoken on and about like this class can beat that one and this can do that lol... isn't this suppose to be just a skill translation thread?
    And why not go try do all of that which you are simulating in an actual duel or whatever.(It's fine to talk some but then someone goes around speaking for lines of comments as to what and what can happen which is weird..)
    Some days ago someone spoke with regards to a ton of possibilties as to what seekers can do with fortify SS qpq blur and all... and thus concluding they are an OP DD class.(which obviously is not true but not completely false either depending on situations)
    Yes yes everybody is aware about all that but well most people skip the portions regarding chi shortage (even with chi pots) an actual gameplay(which obviously cannot be verified just by oral dictation)
    So go and play inside the game rather than flooding the thread for an entirely different purpose.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    I see a lot of lecturing and possibilites possibilities and infinite possibilities being spoken on and about like this class can beat that one and this can do that lol... isn't this suppose to be just a skill translation thread?
    And why not go try do all of that which you are simulating in an actual duel or whatever.(It's fine to talk some but then someone goes around speaking for lines of comments as to what and what can happen which is weird..)
    Some days ago someone spoke with regards to a ton of possibilties as to what seekers can do with fortify SS qpq blur and all... and thus concluding they are an OP DD class.(which obviously is not true but not completely false either depending on situations)
    Yes yes everybody is aware about all that but well most people skip the portions regarding chi shortage (even with chi pots) an actual gameplay(which obviously cannot be verified just by oral dictation)
    So go and play inside the game rather than flooding the thread for an entirely different purpose.

    I understand your point, ... but... this ins't a "flood". We're talking about the skil's changes yet.
    Who are playing with a BM by years knows that we already had a high consumption of chi in the past. Nowadays this "problem" was adjusted. Our discussions (and fear) here are about this "problem" have or not come back again.
    Even though we do not yet have the changes applied in the game, those informations aren't speculation, they are informations taken from the official text of China and that's what worries us.
    uchijawar wrote: »
    If what Red saying is true bms can't do nothing without chi , we as bms only depend of chi for everything since a ddg or dragon rising are very important for any combo PvP or mass PvP this is a big lost for bms if that change comes true I know that China bms are like king class and sins weakness class so they powerfull each time sins but official server they are best DMG class

    If we say that bms can use genie for avoid this change means that we are wasting 30 secs for genie charge in that 30 secs we may lost hf if it's miss 30 secs of an ad that can save us of a zc of sin db arna barb

    So hope those changes no apply for official servers or bms will be bored soon

    I hope I'm wrong =/
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    @mysticblue that is the thing about my comments. they are tested ingame and I stand to what I say. Every combo I list, every PvP situation I talk about is something I could present in actual fights myself. I would not dare talk about stuff that are pure fiction or theory. So even with the presumed "Chi-nerf" for BMs I could still easily floor almost every class with equal gears in a 1v1 on a BM without using the "Free-Chi" argent glyph on Dragon Rising and Star Smite at all. Heck, vs most classes I would not even need a paramount.

    I do not like it when ppl are theory crafting. I play/played all classes in the game on every single update we had to this day and know all skills, combos, possibilites of every class incl. CD, costs, etc. I can think off complete fights inside my head and how they would play in almost every possible matchup in terms of player skill. Like if I on a BM fight noobs on every other class, everything that is not a BM, seeker, Barb or sin will die within 20-30 seconds max. If they are good and know what they are doing they will eventually lose too but they can stay alive for quite a bit longer, depending on their kite game. If you are too squishy vs a BM you will die if you use Expel with the wrong timing, you will die if you AD or Faith and get caught in any CC right after (if you cant time Fortify and/or cant predict dragon Rising and avoid it with 1/2-sparks or just kite away).

    Knowing this, only very few classes can be pressured like this while being able to also pressure the BM or even get close to killing the BM...which is why you can spot ppl with low amounts of experience immidiately if they think that a 50 energy skill is holding back a BM at all, which it does not, not in the slightest. Like vs sins...you just leap and keep expel ready. if equal gear, they will not kill you even with a ZC toxic torrent just like that without being lucky but you on the other hand will most certainly always at least trigger deaden when ANY CC hits them at all. Caster are a nobrainer, vs venos you can afk in def weap and basically just dont do anything but rebuff marrow and use Will surge/nullify/chant of chi and you are immortal for the veno. Same goes for Mystic, SBs with HoS/Oxygen, Psys are nonfactor anyway on equal gear and can just be CCed through their shananigans, Archer are oneshot and since red glyph skills increase Accu to the max..welp, HoS negates anything they can do to you anyways. DBs are oneshot, too and/or wont be able to kill you if they are damage built. Phys marrow, equal gears can tank a DB forever if you use mag-based Expel genie on the Bm. You just need one good hit and the DB is gone. Clerics cant kill you at all..you use Adrenaline surge and will surge and HoS to basically negate them completely.

    Barbs can be a problem cause they could kill you too with a ZC arma but on the other hand, if they are too offensive and you catch a deity barb in human form and got Ulti/HF ready they can be OSed too, sometimes even through solid shield (depends on the genie, vs a great BM I would not go above 50 Str on a barbs genie cause you need other skills to save your hide, like spamable lv1 expel and high regen and Solid Shield will still be strong enough in most cases). Here it depends on how good the Barb is, really, still since a BM got more combos to potentially kill, even outlasting Solid Shield and more locks it's still in favor of the BM. Seeker are the only real issue if they are good. HoS and Expel will make it hard for them to kill you but it is even harder for you to kill them. In most situations you need to land a lucky ZC on a red-glyphed skill with EP to bypass them, catch them in their own SS or simply are able to CC them so long and force them to use their saves so that you can unleash a maximum combo (ulti, HF, paramount, full chi red glyphed skill -> this always kills anything equally geared, doesnt even have to be a ZC) or just wait for them to break out of your lock with a genie skill, negate their combo (a little prediction is needed) and counter CC them to use the full combo. It comes down to skill as well here, even more so than vs a Barb. An offensive built BM will be able to deal decent damage to a max defensive built seeker but your marrows are basically useless. If you get caught in the SS-combo you might get Osed by physical skills in mag marrow, so you need to watch out for that.

    So basically, all classes, nerf or not, that can be instantly killed by another class while they themselves have to pull off long, predictable combos to even be able to kill you, which good players can easily evade, will have no chance at all. If you can tank damage while also dishing out enough damage to pressure the target, this is when you truly have to be able to outplay the enemy to win. BM vs Seeker or BM vs Barb will be determined by how good both players are and how well they know skills, combos and timings from each other and ofc a little bit of adaptation of personal playstyle. Any other class vs BM should lose 99% of the time if the BM knows what they are doing. One little exception could be full defensive built, vit statted venos. It depends if the BM has enough damage to kill the veno regardless because if not, then it is the same OP-way again. Veno will be able to tank most of the stuff and kill the BM easily with chi combo. Venos will be significantly harder like that after the nerf but this is basically the only class where it would matter in regards of 1v1. Vs any other class you are supposed to lock them forever and when using chi glyphs on your major skills, your chi will NEVER run out.

    Ofc, this is just a very, very crude and short explanation, lots of details left out to not end up in full essay mode but you should get the idea. Experience and knowledge is the biggest asset in PWI, even more so than gear at times. Anyone who does a bit of research and puts in a bit of effort can achieve this level here, that's why PWI is still great in terms of PVP. If someone is lazy, welp, they either need to cash more or go to not get massively frustrated. The gist of it is, it is possible for anyone to do what I mentioned above and more and if they try, they will see the truth in it.

    Tl;dr: if you are good and experienced enough, the nerfs for DB and BM will hardly bother you.
  • happyhailhappyhail Posts: 108 Arc User
    BM are so OP they casually hit 50K crits every other hit. Trolo lo lo looooo. This is exactly why there are so many BM players these days. Tro lo lul.

    God. So much wrong about BMs in this tread it's insane. A mod should clean it up just for spreading false information and lies.
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 13
    happyhail wrote: »
    BM are so OP they casually hit 50K crits every other hit. Trolo lo lo looooo. This is exactly why there are so many BM players these days. Tro lo lul.

    God. So much wrong about BMs in this tread it's insane. A mod should clean it up just for spreading false information and lies.

    It's easy to call false information and it might indeed appear so if you are uninformed yourself. Anything I have said can easily be proven by anyone BM at any given time. Use any random Skill on your enemy, note the damage and differenciate between crit, zerk and none of both, then equip a Red Glyph on a skill of your choice (preferably River Avalanche), fill up your chi, use the skill on the same target. See the difference. Magic!

    It's kinda funny but typical human to question things they simply do not understand but the biggest flaw in all of this is claiming to know things or condemning things without being 100% sure themselves. It is good to question anything but claiming something is wrong without even trying it for yourself is nothing short of stupidity. Try it, if it doesn't work as advertised, complain. Don't try it, fine, but then don't comment or make hilarious claims.

    Is it because of the disbelief that something can be this broken? Well, you certainly have not encountered decent barbs yet or Mystics. They certainly would show you some more of that broken stuff :D
  • datsangdatsang Posts: 107 Arc User
    happyhail wrote: »
    BM are so OP they casually hit 50K crits every other hit. Trolo lo lo looooo. This is exactly why there are so many BM players these days. Tro lo lul.

    God. So much wrong about BMs in this tread it's insane. A mod should clean it up just for spreading false information and lies.

    Its nice you dont even try to stay factual. It was said BMs hit casual 50ks, obviously its red glyph shenanigans and those cant be on every other hit. That being said, if you cant figure out a way to hit LA for 50k in PK, granted you arent awfully geared, you might want to look into other games as clearly this one is too much for you.

    I dont know bout you guys but the past weeks we been fighting Echo I want to say our average BM count in instance has been 8-9. Thats pretty high out of 60 people inside the instance. And it seems like half the ppl re-rolling are choosing BMs, least on Et. This might obviously be drastically different on other servers but here BMs are pretty damn common.

    @Joe, we rarely agree but that long post of yours was actually a pretty good one.
  • teikiatsu11teikiatsu11 Posts: 91 Arc User
    Jesus playing a BM pre-primal update would've eaten some of you alive. I get it, being nerfed sucks but we managed before when Dragon Rising still cost 1 spark, we managed before we had Star Smite to give us a steady 50 chi, we managed when we had to blow all our chi to stun/HF something and hope it died or we'd get stuck trying to turtle it out forever until we got our chi back. Glyph your skills right, think out your combos and don't play stupid, you'll be fine. I do agree the chi nerf to Star Smite is stupid, honestly it doesn't make much sense, but almost all the new BM skills in this update seem like bad/useless ideas to me. This nerf to Dragon Rising is going to be a minor inconvenience at worst to any skillful BM.
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    @datsang thanks :)

    And yes, that must be the reason why they introduced Paralyze and allowed it to be overwritten, unlike stun, because otherwise it would be too hard for ppl to do anything on classes like DB. I remember back in the day when BMs had to stun back to back and be perfect with out to not have ppl break free easily + they were way more vulnerable to Fortify then they are now. This isn't really a nerf because BMs are still crazy powerful and lets be fair, the Dragon Rising glyph wasnt around from the start either..I would all be fore Stun and paralyze both not being able to be overwritten and be overwritten by each other, too. That would be fun and require ppl to play on a whole different level than they are now.

    Any change, like I said many times before, that advertises more playerskill is ALWAYS welcome.
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    Jesus playing a BM pre-primal update would've eaten some of you alive. I get it, being nerfed sucks but we managed before when Dragon Rising still cost 1 spark, we managed before we had Star Smite to give us a steady 50 chi, we managed when we had to blow all our chi to stun/HF something and hope it died or we'd get stuck trying to turtle it out forever until we got our chi back. Glyph your skills right, think out your combos and don't play stupid, you'll be fine. I do agree the chi nerf to Star Smite is stupid, honestly it doesn't make much sense, but almost all the new BM skills in this update seem like bad/useless ideas to me. This nerf to Dragon Rising is going to be a minor inconvenience at worst to any skillful BM.

    Ok... but...
    BM's in the past (in the pre-primal update), used the chi just in the stun and HF. Nowadays this is too different.
    The China realized that BM didn't have enough chi to do everything the class needed ... so they inserted more chi on the skils to fill that gap (Homeasted's skils and other upgrades including Primal's Skils).
    The China also realized that BM needed more damage ... so they put a damage upgrade on the current skils. At that time BMs were balanced (Skil's chi cust = chi generation).
    However, BM damage still needs to be higher in comparison to other classes ... so they inserted runes with skils that deal damage based on chi ... and for that to be effective they also reduced the cost of chi in the current skils (HF, Dragon Rising, etc). This way BM would cause damage if skils are used correctly and also have enought chi to use these new features. The consumption of chi is again balanced with your need in the class.

    Making the main (and important) skil use chi and not being able to recover a litlle chi with Star Smite will cause the BM to have (AGAIN) lack of chi for everything it needs.

    Affirming "Good BM will not feel much difference with the nerf of Dragon Rising" is wrong. It is obvious that he will. Whoever says this probably doesn't remember the difficulty we had and the limitations we had before. And forgot the amount of skils that needed chi compared to the current amount of skils. It does not make sense to nerf these skils because we would be coming back to the time where BM lived to generate chi, without being able to focus a little on causing damage, except by APS. Focus just in chi chi chi chi stun chi chi chi stun HF .... and chi. We were limited. The style of play was slow and without much openness to the offensive side of the class. Even ... it was because of this that we had these modifications. These changes have been necessary and are still needed. Why take it now?
    The class has gained many new functions using chi. We can not have nerf in that.

    To be honest ... BM does not need any change in skils. It's already good the way it is. I really hope I'm wrong and that all this talk is just in vain.
    Time will tell.
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 906 Arc User
    Yeah... Pumping out Red Glyph damage isn't as easy as people think. It requires spending resources on stuff you normally want to keep for defense. But players don't pay attention and don't punish a BM using these resources, to them it's just a BM ''randomly hitting 50k every other hit''. It's not so much BMs being OP, it's mostly players being bad. I also don't think there's a thing called ''Good BM'' or ''Bad BM'', the class is pretty fkn braindead right now. It's just that most people are just too bad to punish BMs.

    That said, the bash nerf seems like whatever to me now that we have Paramount. When bash still cost chi it was a sad life for BMs, but Paramount mostly covers for it. Also White Tea being replaced by Potent Chi Potion helps. Having Bash cost no chi seems kinda unfair to me. Also I don't think BMs should really complain about Chi cost nerfs, seeing how most BMs are still playing as Demon BMs with no clear benefit, they make it very clear that they aren't fully utilizing their chi in the first place.

    I dont think BMs need to have kill pressure to be useful in mass PvP, the only problem is that if a BM has no kill pressure it's so fkn boring to play.

    And it opens up another Glyph Slot so maybe something interesting there.


    IGN: Madskillz
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    In Mass-PvP it will change nothing, especially if you are focused. Most ppl will mainly CC/Lockdown BMs anyways, letting them stand there or forcing them to jump away to get out of harms way, allowing nearly full chi anyways with paramount 24/7. The 50 energy cost also hardly matters at all since you are still able to use Faith or AD or Expel regardless, if you are tanky enough, most of the time smaller skills like HoS/Oxygen Bubble/Nullify will suffice anyways. Not like you can chain either the "big immunities" anyways.

    I don't want to turn this into Sage vs Demon again..but seriously xD only advantage Sage has still is only Master Li. Nothing else. Marrows are better in demon cause they do not leave you as open to the other type of damage (yet another point that gets abused way too little) and Bell is FAR superior to anyone (as long as you are buffed 15% doesnt make any difference for endgame ppl, that additional 60% after purge however does, quite a bit, especially for your team-mates). 100% chance on RotP (yet again, since paramount, chi doesnt matter). So esp now, before the nerf and assuming paramount..there is no reason to be Sage at all, at least not on a reasonable scale. Demon is still the far safer and more versatile option. For 1v1 it's even more clear cut. Master li is too slow anyways imho. Lvl8 blue glyph on Ray + Marrow allows for RotP + then some as well + way lower CD and even faster cast time. If no enemy = paramount aka Sage is useless. Even after the nerf...Paramount solves all the problems anyone could fear.

    I agree that an additional glyph slot could be great. Enables full blue glyph built for all spamable skills and as long as you have any target at all, you will never run out of chi hence why at least in 1v1, the nerf changes absolutely nothing at all. With full lv8 blue glyph built you can roughly rebuilt 2.5 sparks during a RoTP+DR combo if we asume the last hit sets the enemy free, if you prolong with smack + whirlwind into another RotP and DR...if you started with 50 chi, at the end of the second DR you will be full again, even after the nerf. Or just use Paramount xDDD

    IDK, since paramount, on all of my classes, no matter which it is, no matter if its 1v1 or mass, I never run out of chi, that's literally impossible. The only time chi is down is when you die or get focused so hard that you literally cant do anything but even if you had chi then it would hardly matter aka still no difference.
  • flameofwarflameofwar Posts: 9 Arc User
    Any word on how effective new penetrate armor phy def reduction will be?
  • csquared5csquared5 Posts: 138 Arc User
    @Red

    I disagree with one of your main assertions, that bm 'NEED' damage.

    NO... I don't think they 'need' damage.

    What role(s) has a bm always played? Front line tank, ccer, and debuffer.

    How has bm always dealt good damage in the past to players? Through the good use of a stun lock + applying debuffs to spike damage upperwards.

    With paramount genie, and a glyph that simply converts chi into huge raw damage, bm has become an easy no-brainer class with which to do damage. It doesn't require skill anymore. So we have a class that now simultaneously has high tankiness, high amounts of cc, and high damage. And that doesn't strike you as a little unbalanced?

    Well, news flash---seems the China devs think that, um yeah, it is a little unbalanced.

    In my view, bms never 'needed' that huge amount of damage. With stuns, hf, and their ulti, they have all the damage they could ever need to kill most people.

    Now take my class for example: cleric. We have strong heals, strong heal debuffs, and a few ccs. Now, imagine for a moment that you give my class an easy way to do huge damage as well. Suddenly, my class would become absurdly broken, if I could do 'everything' well.

    I look at your videos and I see how easily you do damage. I really don't think you should be complaining that bms are getting toned down a bit. Besides---it sounds like you'll get some magic damage now, so you'll be a bit more versatile against heavy armor in the future. So seriously, no complaining.
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  • mechabeastmc666mechabeastmc666 Posts: 346 Arc User
    No brainier class=cleric that goes immune to dmg for 8-12 seconds and hit you with 8-12 whirlwinds, one per second with no CD. I swear whoever made it so the Life preserver healers could have Magic aps had to be a genius. Might just be me, but that stuff hurts lol
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    csquared5 wrote: »
    @Red

    I disagree with one of your main assertions, that bm 'NEED' damage.

    NO... I don't think they 'need' damage.

    What role(s) has a bm always played? Front line tank, ccer, and debuffer.

    How has bm always dealt good damage in the past to players? Through the good use of a stun lock + applying debuffs to spike damage upperwards.

    With paramount genie, and a glyph that simply converts chi into huge raw damage, bm has become an easy no-brainer class with which to do damage. It doesn't require skill anymore. So we have a class that now simultaneously has high tankiness, high amounts of cc, and high damage. And that doesn't strike you as a little unbalanced?

    Well, news flash---seems the China devs think that, um yeah, it is a little unbalanced.

    In my view, bms never 'needed' that huge amount of damage. With stuns, hf, and their ulti, they have all the damage they could ever need to kill most people.

    Now take my class for example: cleric. We have strong heals, strong heal debuffs, and a few ccs. Now, imagine for a moment that you give my class an easy way to do huge damage as well. Suddenly, my class would become absurdly broken, if I could do 'everything' well.

    I look at your videos and I see how easily you do damage. I really don't think you should be complaining that bms are getting toned down a bit. Besides---it sounds like you'll get some magic damage now, so you'll be a bit more versatile against heavy armor in the future. So seriously, no complaining.

    You talk as if any well-equipped class nowadays dont have damage like BM with yours random damage that "doesn't require skill anymore" ... but it's nothing like that. BM deal damage in the same way as the other classes deal randon damages but I agree with you that the red gliph is very strong.
    The magic and all light classes with double damage on g17 is OP also with high damages.
    Want to talk about a class that is a front tank and has damage? Look at the BARB.

    Now, about the CHI (that is the main subject here in this discussion), only those who play with BM and DO NOT HAVE PARAMOUNT knows how bad this nerf would be. BM needs chi for the times of today, with the skils of today, gameplay of today. You need to forget the style of gameplay that we had in the past and stop to comparate with the today because the game changed a lot, (main your class).
    Paramount here in BR is around 11~12kkk. .... Forget it. But i agree with you that Paramount could be the "soluction of our problems".

    But we are "re reading" the skils in the raw archive, and maybe the "80 chi cust of Dragon Rising" will be just with other weapons, but not with dual axes. And the 50 chi of Star Smite reduced to 15, would be more acceptable.
    We're waiting the PW RUSS receive the expansion to test it there =D
  • red#4565 red Posts: 34 Arc User
    Bad news for BM's. :s
    The skil's updates that is related to this post, arrived last week on PWCH and i talked with a Chinese about this.

    cfiVQP2.png



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