New "stun" skill effect

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Would be nice if there was some PvP system that matches equally geared people and keep track of statistics.

Ranged toons are OP compared to mellee ones in most games. Simply because range is such a huge advantage it is very hard to balance out. No doubt PWI does have a bunch of statistics to judge balance. I guess that lead them to help the mellees a bit.

Aye agreed, range is quite the advantage. (I never meant to try to say that it shouldnt be an advantage)

Still imho there should be something that does a better job of equalizier that power... which so isn't as noticeable in mass pvp due to all the ranged people in there, esepcially in nw.

I also feel its quite wrong that there are mobs/bosses where a ranged person can kill it without being hit back at all/or gets hurt so little that they just need regular crappy pots to kill it. (Though yes bp made it so melees could kind of do the same... but really there is only so much that bp can do alone. The same can indeed be said to a lesser extent about ranged/casters being able to range kill a mob/boss that does little to nothing back) Though that is a topic for whole nother thread/time. :$

Burnout - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am not really 'crying' about it. <<

I am just tired of people acting like stuns are so badass, when they so obviously arent useful at all if the bm doesn't live long enough to use them.

I get it to some of you a bms lack thereof to withstand a few attacks balances out with their ability to stun, but imho it really doesn't... the extra hp/def that we supposedly get does NOT offset the range and power of a caster.

Go ahead try to be a bm in mass pvp... with decentish... gear... you'll find out quick just how effective those stuns are... they are NOT effective when the bm isn't able to get up close. (This DOES NOT mean that stuns aren't useful... reread that... I just said 'when not in end game gear/able to withstand hits... stuns are USELESS. <<) <-- get that through your all's thick *** skulls. <<

---

Ffs.. I am tired of pointing out the flaws in people thinking and getting blasted as a fail/being treated like I am one really stupid dolt/asinine person which clearly I am not... you all are just disagreeing with my stance on it... and that is more than fine... but the insults because you disagree with me are absolutely uncalled for and are 100% un needed. <<

You can't survive against 1-2 casters? even an average BM can live vs that. And in TW/NW, where you get assaulted by a line of 4-5 casters...don't you think it's kind of OP to be able to live vs multiple R9rr casters? The point is, to get to the backlines, you need support from your squad.

Even years ago, when everyone had TT gears, BM's needed to IG to stun proper TW factions. Will of the bodhisatva lets you IG AND gives you the speed boost you need to make it to the backlines.

Why do you think faction leaders used to give BM's a stack of IG's for free every TW?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

You can't survive against 1-2 casters? even an average BM can live vs that. And in TW/NW, where you get assaulted by a line of 4-5 casters...don't you think it's kind of OP to be able to live vs multiple R9rr casters? The point is, to get to the backlines, you need support from your squad.

Even years ago, when everyone had TT gears, BM's needed to IG to stun proper TW factions. Will of the bodhisatva lets you IG AND gives you the speed boost you need to make it to the backlines.

Why do you think faction leaders used to give BM's a stack of IG's for free every TW?

TT b:infuriated b:beatup

*waves white flag*

Really?

<<

--

I can survive quite well when there is just 1 or 2 casters on me actually... but when you add in other melees, or even more casters into the mix it really does become difficult to survive. (You can't be apoed 100% of the time... and if your not in a group/near others/aren't able to kill/stun right... life on a bm really is difficult if some/all of those criteriaies aren't met. :$)

Mass pvp is so messed up... and is absolutely in the favor of casters/ranged dd's.

Still i do agree with you Ig made supporting a lot easier.. hell it still does really... but my problem (as it always has been) is the fact that no other class "SEEMS" to need to use apo, or stay near others to kill/live a little bit. Albeit I must admit sins do have it just as rough as a bm... if not more rough. (Still every class and yes including us bms does have things that make them absolutely useful... but they still need to survive long enough to make use of those 'useful' things... and imho a bm has the most difficultly of doing this... if it wasn't for apo... it would be even harder for a NON-endgame bm to be of any use at all. :$

--

Though these new skills may very well change my opinion on that a bit... I too need to give them a bit more time. but still until then my issues with the bm class will remain.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

IG's are like radiation suits >>
If you go in nakkid you know you wont walk out alive lol

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

IG's are like radiation suits >>
If you go in nakkid you know you wont walk out alive lol

b:chuckle

Very true. :$

I may not like it, but it is what bms in non end game gear has to do. /o\

either way...

you all have yourself a nice holiday... I have other more important things to do than get belittled for my difference of opinion. :$

*goes to wrap prezzies*

anwynd

hmm looks like the situation is reversed now hehehehe this could create another hysterical long thread like purify proc did hehehehe. I cant w8 to read thru another thread and watch the rage and long winded debates go back and forth b:sin

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

I dont like it because I have no counter to it but to get out of range(easier said than done w/ my typical ping) and try to keep the barb away. I am forced to expend both my stun(which can miss and fail) and/or my 1 spark aim low (which can also miss/fail) in order to try to keep the barb away. Being that it is a barb, and assuming equal gear, I cannot kill it very easily and it can reach me very quickly. I become a sitting duck.


I can expend 1 spark antistun skills w/ no good results because as long as a barb w/ this skill is around I'll still be floating around stupidly if he gets in range to use it.

If I could at least still air-kite barbs this wouldn't feel so ****. Anti-stun skills should make you immune to any stun/immobilize, period.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

I did not think this would explode.b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

just think of it as a food chain.

you cant expect to win them all

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I did not think this would explode.b:chuckle

4 pages is not exactly explode, not many people have this skill yet, we've yet to see a real player reaction.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

4 pages is not exactly explode, not many people have this skill yet, we've yet to see a real player reaction.

Honestly, I didn't think this would have gotten as long as this thread did, given that the stun is short.

This can't be compared to Purify Spell in my opinion in terms of game changing, because before Purify Spell existed, the game was fine still in PvP.

AzureWings - Raging Tide

TBH archers needs more stun skills.../faster casting/channeling time

Onatop - Lost City

LMAO purify spell mages complain about stunning? BAHAHAHAHA

Slyff - Raging Tide

a stun that cant be stopped? no *** that. this game is getting worse and worse, and im about ready to throw in the towel. i've had about as much as i can take.

MerLeah - Archosaur

b:chuckle LoL @ some of this thread, try playing the character first before you post here. b:laugh

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Meanwhile archers are extra screwed in 1v1

innocencex

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

does anyone feel that is kind of game breaking?

It cannot be any more game breaking than purify proc is on a decently geared (sharded/refined) R9rr caster. If anything I would think this is a nice counter-balance move to that broken skill.

Shiyuan - Heavens Tear

Well still waiting for some bm's to test the new skill out before I risk getting rid of mine too.. but to be honest.. it's needed. It's rather fawkn annoying using a chi.. and the arcane instant purify. Go to roar, instant purify. So fawk it. Yeah this needs to be left alone. Lol so many on HT getting near end game and with EVERY arcane having purify.. plus genie... yeah a definitely CC with no loop holes sounds nice =p

Seekers can still zerk crit on a magic hit. They got enough love.
Archers can still leap out of CC controls without using chi + purge. They got enough love.

Mooooooooo - Lost City

innocencex wrote: »

It cannot be any more game breaking than purify proc is on a decently geared (sharded/refined) R9rr caster. If anything I would think this is a nice counter-balance move to that broken skill.

purify procs around 10% of the times. and considering similar geared opponents can easily hit arcanes for 20%-50% of their hp in one hit, it's only overpowered against undergeared opponents, but definitely not something you can relie on against similar geared opponents. Also the mechanics use existing effects (purify, and antistun).

Yes this new stun is probably made to nerf purify (and it makes it basically COMPLETELY useless), but what they created is way more powerful than just a counter to purify. It makes a large percentage of defensive skills of all classes / genie completely useless against it. That is the problem with it. While they did similar things before such as soulburn, healblock, reversions, etc that cannot be purified, those offensive skills all have counters and at worse you can still move. this stun leaves you completely unable to do anything, you cannot prevent it with anti stun/fortify. you cannot escape it with badge/faith. basically what they are saying is you must gear tank for as long as this debuff last and there is nothing you can do about it.

BuddhaRage - Sanctuary

AzureWings - Raging Tide wrote: »

TBH archers needs more stun skills.../faster casting/channeling time

because criting from 723950970293 meters isnt enough >>

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

Yes this new stun is probably made to nerf purify (and it makes it basically COMPLETELY useless), but what they created is way more powerful than just a counter to purify. It makes a large percentage of defensive skills of all classes / genie completely useless against it. That is the problem with it. While they did similar things before such as soulburn, healblock, reversions, etc that cannot be purified, those offensive skills all have counters and at worse you can still move. this stun leaves you completely unable to do anything, you cannot prevent it with anti stun/fortify. you cannot escape it with badge/faith. basically what they are saying is you must gear tank for as long as this debuff last and there is nothing you can do about it.

we sucked up the puri-proc so im sure the community can suck this one up too The uses seem kinda limited anyway (without perfect scenarios)

EDIT
fawwwwwkkkkk i posted on the wrong account again

XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

A wizzy and a seeker complaining about a barb and BM skill. Sounds like a good thing.

lmfao !!!!

+1

we sucked up the puri-proc so im sure the community can suck this one up too The uses seem kinda limited anyway (without perfect scenarios)

+1

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver

It looks like the every-class-is-overpowered-except-mine syndrome is in full effect b:laugh

Also, did everyone forget about AD? b:avoid

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

purify procs around 10% of the times. and considering similar geared opponents can easily hit arcanes for 20%-50% of their hp in one hit, it's only overpowered against undergeared opponents, but definitely not something you can relie on against similar geared opponents. Also the mechanics use existing effects (purify, and antistun).

Yes this new stun is probably made to nerf purify (and it makes it basically COMPLETELY useless), but what they created is way more powerful than just a counter to purify. It makes a large percentage of defensive skills of all classes / genie completely useless against it. That is the problem with it. While they did similar things before such as soulburn, healblock, reversions, etc that cannot be purified, those offensive skills all have counters and at worse you can still move. this stun leaves you completely unable to do anything, you cannot prevent it with anti stun/fortify. you cannot escape it with badge/faith. basically what they are saying is you must gear tank for as long as this debuff last and there is nothing you can do about it.

Maybe if casters focused on defense as much as melee's this wouldn't happen. Don't wear chan ornies, and stop wearing magic rings then QQ about your damage taken from phy atks.
In addition to that, with the amout of mag caster getting being so rediculous, your could easily stat extra points into str to wear an LA helm which give more HP and pdef. But you wouldnt want to do that would you? Most 3rd cast sins I know wear HA helms and capes for more def/hp against casters, what's wrong with you all doing the same? Not to mention there is ONLY 1 mdef buff in this game, while there are several for pdef. You have no excuses to not be able to gear tank a 7 sec stun. We have to gear tank your '1 shot' skills from 30m now dont we?

Now I do agree this can be OP in most cases. If they lower the stun time, I see no problems with it, mainly because barbs and BM's have more 1 shot potential than a sin.

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It looks like the every-class-is-overpowered-except-mine syndrome is in full effect b:laugh

Also, did everyone forget about AD? b:avoid

They stated it goes through anti stun effects. AD would be included

XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maybe if casters focused on defense as much as melee's this wouldn't happen. Don't wear chan ornies, and stop wearing magic rings then QQ about your damage taken from phy atks.
In addition to that, with the amout of mag caster getting being so rediculous, your could easily stat extra points into str to wear an LA helm which give more HP and pdef. But you wouldnt want to do that would you? Most 3rd cast sins I know wear HA helms and capes for more def/hp against casters, what's wrong with you all doing the same? Not to mention there is ONLY 1 mdef buff in this game, while there are several for pdef. You have no excuses to not be able to gear tank a 7 sec stun. We have to gear tank your '1 shot' skills from 30m now dont we?

Now I do agree this can be OP in most cases. If they lower the stun time, I see no problems with it, mainly because barbs and BM's have more 1 shot potential than a sin.

+1

lmao so many good postings b:laugh

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

Ive been out past few days so I dont know exactly what you guys talking about..

if there really is a 7.5 sec unblockable "stun" that cannot be purified (including cleric puri) that doesn't allow you to genie during the duration, then that would be game breaking for squad based pvp... 1) put skill on anyone 2)your squad focuses them 3)GG, there would be zero counter, BMs and Barbs will be crying about it too (except for that fact that they dont really get focused first cause they're pretty damn tanky)

if you can atleast use defensive genie skills its a bit better... though still sounds pretty OP, due to a 7.5 sec duration, I could basically signet in my squad during that time...

Longknife - Harshlands

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It looks like the every-class-is-overpowered-except-mine syndrome is in full effect b:laugh

Also, did everyone forget about AD? b:avoid

Though admittedly, I do think this one about the barb skill is justified.

Listen, I'm not one to care about losing 1v1 due to a class being better designed for it. Cleric and sin in particular are built in ways that can make them damned near impossible to beat 1v1 for certain classes, but there's no reason to cry about it because both then suffer from difficulties with group scenarios.

This barb skill however seems iffy as far as balance goes not neccesarily because it's overpowered, but because it just seems like poor gameplay design that they've effectively given -THE- tankiest class the ability to completely 100% disable a good DD and there's not **** all you can do about it except wait until your allies bother to help you. It's THAT spammable and it's THAT bad. So even if you don't mind losing to a barb 1v1 simply because of such a skill (I mean they can use this and Arma until you finally die to a zerk crit), I'm sure EVERYONE minds not being able to take part in a big team fight because a barb has been specifically assigned to "ban" you from taking part in the fight.



I myself have already experienced two fights where it was so obvious the barb was specifically assigned to come keep me disabled, and while it's perfectly fine for people to make that decision strategically, it's NOT fun gameplay when I literally -CANNOT- do anything about it. I'm even one of the lucky ones; a Psy can SoR it and then holy path away while the barb is on the ground, but I'm basically not allowed to target anything or anyone until that barb is dead, lest I be killed myself. One vit barb spamming this skill on a key DD = a giant ****ing obstacle for the entire team that affords the enemy ample time to focus-fire a bunch of people that are pre-occupied with a slow-to-die target.




As a minor suggestion that would make it far more....don't wanna say balanced but rather "fun" since being disabled by this is boring as hell: simply increase it's cooldown. As it stands, the problem is the cooldown is so brief that the barb can -literally- spam it and you receive only very brief ~2-3 second windows to actually do something, which for many people, isn't enough. (keep in mind the skill has some range) If this skill either required decent chi or had a higher cooldown, it could STILL function as an effective disable that makes barbs a larger threat, but it at least gives the targets an opportunity to....yknow, play the ****ing game. :U

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They stated it goes through anti stun effects. AD would be included

I meant the immunity from damage from AD means you won't have to tank the damage. Not that BMs hit hard anyway xD

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I meant the immunity from damage from AD means you won't have to tank the damage. Not that BMs hit hard anyway xD

Mighty swing has a 6 sec cd, just as long as AD last, so even if you have a point, it is negated by the extremely low cd. On top of that, it cost no chib:shocked. Sins needs sparks for this kind of shet.

Vedovis - Lost City

anyone with the attitude of "Oh, casters had their turn, now bms do, teehee!" need to uninstall, because clearly they're too stupid to comprehend how immensely stupid this is. Sure, a 7.5 second stun is fine but once it starts hitting through antistun and genie skills, that is stupid. Lower stun time amount, or make antistun resist, then that's balanced.

Longknife - Harshlands

I mean let's put this in perspective:

A cleric can already cancel one player out of a fight, but none of us complain about that because you can either use teamwork (purify), proper timing (AD the cast) or it's simply too minor in a big group fight to single-handedly win the fight.

This though? The only teamwork that helps is if everyone agrees to focus all their attention to the tankiest class in the game, which is just counter-productive to basic tactics. Likewise, the player themself cannot really AD this and get away like they can with a cleric because that thing is completely spammable and Barb is fully capable of chasing a target down, so even if you DO get away, the stun issues aren't over until THE TANKIEST CLASS IN THE GAME has died.

If they had given this skill to...say, a veno, I don't think anyone would be complaining because focus-firing a veno or a psychic or a sin or some other class like that makes sense because there's low risk and high reward. A barb being THIS effective though? By the time you kill it and free up the one guy being disabled, half your squad would've died to the enemy squad's focus fire. There's "giving each class value and purpose" and then there's full-on requiring a class for anything and everything. When a barb has this as it stands now, whether it's overpowered or not (because again, cancelling out one opponent of 80 in TW isn't such a huge deal, albeit obviously helpful), it's just really annoying and boring game design for anyone unlucky enough to be deemed the primary disable target. TW leaders, major catapult killers, squad leaders...there will be a pattern of these people being disabled completely, and yes people will get sick of it if their entire gameplay involves watching an animation where they fall down over and over.