More skill updates for Venos! Discuss

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  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Yes, "Ironblaze" will have a fire dot too. According to what I've read. I think it even said that it was going to be 600% of weapon damage as dot.

    Also, it seems the last update they changed demon ironblaze to reduce p defense by 180% 20% of the time.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20033611&postcount=761


    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20033651&postcount=762

    If it's kept at 180%, I will definitely merge it. I would have a stronger more stable ironwood doing a dot f:laugh


    600% DoT? Well damn. Demon merged Ironblaze is looking much better than when it was first announced. Hopefully the DoT won't be over 30 seconds like lv10 Blazing Scarab is at the moment. f:faint
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  • DeffyNature - Archosaur
    DeffyNature - Archosaur Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    600% DoT? Well damn. Demon merged Ironblaze is looking much better than when it was first announced. Hopefully the DoT won't be over 30 seconds like lv10 Blazing Scarab is at the moment. f:faint

    I doubt that, sage blazing is at 12s and demon 9s for the dot already, I'd assume they'd carry that along.
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  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'm not sure it even is a DOT; the skill description doesn't mention a duration for the fire damage, so it might just be straight damage rather than DoT.
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  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'm not sure it even is a DOT; the skill description doesn't mention a duration for the fire damage, so it might just be straight damage rather than DoT.

    I sure do hope so~ it's looking better and better since they first announced it f:grin And unfortunately I don't have demon blazing yet.. I rarely use it since it's sort of crappy.
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  • helovesu
    helovesu Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So, in order to be able to merge those skills, must we possess the level 11 version of the skills? I've read this thing in previous pages, but it has no further confirmation.

    Since personally, there are only 2 skills which my veno does not already have, namely Sage Leech and Sage Consume Spirit. However, I really love the new merged skill of those 2, for it gives us more HP drain (range between 800 - 2.500).
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Hm could it be a one tick DoT?

    And yes, you will have to get Sage/Demon version of the skills you want to merge/update. Start looking for them!
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  • Bezdna - Dreamweaver
    Bezdna - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I noticed some subtle but meaningful changes between the skill translations by Mayfly and by Eoria

    There is one in particular I want to confirm: is Leech merely upgraded, as shown in one translation, or fused with Consume SP, like the other one shows?
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    According to the infomation on the Japanese blog, it's fused with Consume Spirit.
    玄荒.妖冥击 前提技能:真狂.ブラッドサック+真狂.マインドサック

    (Sigh. Forum software doesn't like the double width medial dot occasionally used in Japanese as a word separator. I replaced it with a period and the colon with a single-width version in case that gave problems too.)

    This lists the prerequisite skills (前提技能) for the fused Leech and Consume Spirit. 妖冥击 is the name of the new, fused skill (which is not the name of any current skill, as verified by checking the Chinese version of Ecatomb), 玄 and 荒 are the level 2 Sage and Demon markers as explained earlier in the blog, and I guess (have not verified) that 真 and 狂 are our current Sage and Demon. ブラッドサック (blood suck) and マインドサック (mind suck) are the Japanese names for Leech and Consume Spirit, as you can verify by going to pwdatabase, looking up the sage/demon skill books for those skills, then clicking on the Japanese flag to see their version.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think it's a good thing they did this to be honest because it was a pretty useless skill. It also only happens after you reincarnate and have the Sage/Demon version of both skills so those who use Consume Spirit to recharge MP (I remember Mayfly talking about HA venomancers and mentioning that) can still use it until they decide to merge it or can simply decide not to.

    Same goes for Fox Wallop.
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  • overcomem
    overcomem Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hey guys question about upgrade skill or merge skill. We can do it after Reincarnation or we can do it before Reincarnation?b:question
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    As far as we know, you can only learn them after the reincarnation.
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  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    From what I've observed from these veno skill updates they seem to be looking much better than first announced.

    Befuddling Mist/ Fox Wallop fusion:
    This skill seems to be my favorite updated skill in the update, I truly believe its epic. In the japanese blog I'm certain befuddling mist keeps its aoe effect, why the gms dont update skill descriptions I have no idea, e.g demon frost scarab not showing the 3 sec imobolise and beffudling mist being an aoe. I always knew befuddling mist was a specific type of aoe similar to sins toxic torrent skill and one of the mystics' cragglord's aoe attack in that it is cone/fan shaped.

    Japanese blog page 2 Link: http://rustrust.blog.fc2.com/page-2.html
    Sage:
    Shin mad Vicious and physical damage of 5055 in addition to the basic physical force to ATTACK TARGETS IN THE RANGE OF FAN -SHAPED, reduced 70% accuracy, to extend 35% of the cast time. For players, the target is to extend 125% of the attack interval. 8 seconds duration. I will always hit. Effect of casting time extended up to 50%.

    Demon:
    Shin mad scratch + true mad tiger thick mist physical damage of 5055 in addition to the basic physical force to ATTACK TARGETS IN THE RANGE OF FAN-SHAPED, reduced 70% accuracy, the cast time I extend 35%. For players, the target is to extend 125% of the attack interval. 8 seconds duration. I will always hit. Genki winning amount is up to 20.

    In several areas of the expansion thread there are posts on the chinese google translated skills and in the beffudling mist fox wallop merge it says sector range in the skill description, making me certain this skill will keep its aoe effect.

    Perhaps they will keep the skill not showing its aoe effect on the skill description ingame as it is now.

    Imagine that spammable aoe 125% aps, 35/50% channeling, 70% accuracy debuff attack thats spammable too b:dirty sexy, too epic tbh. For venos that were worried we loose a fox form aoe attack I dont think we will so rejoice.

    I noticed all the fox form attacks have their range increased by 5 meters, that is useful as *** so many times I wanna stunning blow an enemy they'll just run off, it was anoying and now we can cast from 5 meters instead of the current mellee come right close to me and die range. This will be good for demon venos when chi building with the foxwallop befuddling mist merge, since the veno will auto attack after using the skill but that 5 meter distance is enough to send the veno back a bit for a consistent chi gain every time the skills is off cd.

    The channeling and casting effects were changed too, I noticed some fox form attack skills will now have no casting time I'm not sure but if this is the case then extra time saved that'll be nice.


    My thoughts on the ironblaze skill:
    For sages the pdef debuff got a nice increase but should be buffed up a bit to at least 60%. For demons well well well I don't know where to start, atm that 20% proc rate is spammable, I'm in love with it, the extra 5% chance to proc is gonna be op tbh that skill can be fake in the sense that sometimes it'll just be procing like there's no tomorrow, for me anyways. The 180% debuff vs 0 debuff, well having a wiz with 100 dex genie I tested this **** out ingame, on a cleric buffed barb with nw elemental neck he had around over 10k fire def. I used 100 dex genie spark= 100% fire debuff, earth blaze genie skill= 20% fire debuff and undine= 60% fire debuff in total 180% fire debuff.

    However undine strike is not truly a 60% debuff its more like 40% trust me ask any wiz. The barbs fire def got reduced down to 30, I know from experience that 14 def is nothing, at 14 def when you hover your mouse over it it says damage from players will be reduced by 0%, its safe to say 30 def is 0 too, but what will be interesting is from what number does damage get reduced by 1%.

    Genie spark, earth blaze, undine combo= 160% debuff vs demon venos 180% debuff, demon ironwood will still be deadly tbh and if thats not enough there is always lvl 10 tangling mire a 10 sec 35% pdef debuff with demon ironwood= 215% pdef debuff but I'm sure 180% is enough. b:pleased

    As for the fire dot on the skill, watching this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7gsk5o96Qw

    You can see that the dot is within the cool down of the skill which is 8 secs im not sure how many times the dot ticks but its definitly more than once.
    Unfortunately its not a demon veno demonstrating the skill, I say this cause the sage version is straight forward to understand but as for the demon version we dont know if its truly becoming a relieable debuff and how the hell would we tell when the 180% debuff procs, will it stack with the reliable 40% debuff because knowing how gms can be, let me not insult, if this becomes a guessing game with demon ironwood proc count me out in learning it, aint nobody got time for that.

    Malefic Crush update:
    Well it may not be as useless as we think, yes it will now have a 3 min cd, but if the effect is truly a 70% chance on average to stun then it could be useful, the mp reduction will forever suck but whatever. The monkey king's 6 meter aoe stun is pretty good for when your getting ganked, and now malefic crush will be a 10 meter aoe stun but costs 1 spark, it can be good for when feral is on cd, monkey aoe stun on cd or pet dead and its an aoe cc in fox form and can be chained with monkey aoe stun, chi will not be a problem for both paths so no excuse to not use the skill and try it out at least tbh. It will be very good for those times when you have 1 spark and it may not be a good idea to leave fox form and you can soul transfusion after to save that 1 spark used for malefic crush instead of using it before you malefic crush the enemies within 6+ meters ganking you. However, remember this is asumming its truly a 2 sec stun and not a 2 sec imobolise lol.

    Overall its a pretty good update.b:victory
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Thanks for sharing all the updates.

    You are right about the skill descriptions. I even reported it a long time ago that the Demon Frost Scarab description is missing the 3 second freeze effect. It is very likely that they forgot to mention fused Befuddling mist remains an AOE.

    It would have not been smart from the developers to remove our main AOE from Fox Form while increasing the cooldown of Malefic Crush which is our second AOE. Myriad doesn't exactly count as it's a debuff and deals no actual damage (the DoT dealing damage is..eh).

    I decided to upgrade my Ironwood to IronBlaze but it's going to be a wild guess whether it proc'd or not since we get the 40% anyway.
    This is a slight drawback to be honest because I won't be sure whether it proc'd or not thus using Arcane Antinomy will be a gamble and hope you had the strong debuff proc once you cast it.

    Based on your numbers it looks like 180% debuff will be pretty strong. As long as it still gives you the opportunity to 1-shot people (or deal massive damage) like the current Ironwood + Arcane Antinomy combo does then I'll be happy. However, I'd be interested in testing it on targets that have ~30k physical defence. This combo (as it is currently) is sometimes the only possible way to kill an opponent that has much better gear than you thus I want to know if the 180% is at the very least really strong.

    I'm afraid to say but it's very likely that the 40% debuff and 180% debuff have the exact same icon so there won't be any way to tell which one proc'd.....

    ...unless the developers surprise us and actually give them different icons but I highly doubt that.
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  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yes Desdi we all have to make a wish the 180% debuff will have a different icon. b:thanks
    As for players with 30k pdef Im nervous now lol but there is always bewitch and purge and amps and tangling mire, but hopefully the 180% debuff is enough.
  • helovesu
    helovesu Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Do we have to undergo the level 1 anymore if we are willing to reincarnate? Sorry it is probably out of topic but it still relates b:chuckle
    Thank you.
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you reincarnate, you have to re-level from level 1, but you get 4x XP from quests and kills up to level 99. However, you can use all your skills, and any gear that doesn't have stat restrictions, and pets up to (35+# of reincarnations taken * 5) levels above you.
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  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Tested genie spark with earth blaze with undine strike on a toon with 21274 fire defence

    21274 is 83% defence

    Using a 16O% debuff

    21274 dropped down to 1515 bringing the fire def down to 26% fire defence

    New demon ironwood will be 18O% debuff and theres still the passive defense buffs people will get after reincarnation. There is tangling mire but thatll take up a genie slot and having to go close for the range to use the skill is not convenient and there are people that have well over 21k def.

    When the new demon ironblaze is available itll be nice for it to be tested out, I highly doubt itll bring the p def down to 2 or 3 digit numbers even with tangling mire but you never know. The extra damage doesnt justify a weaker proc for me especially when its the DoT that gets most of the damage boost.

    Ive decided Im most likely not learning the new demon ironwood its a nerf in my opinion. b:bye
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Hmm I see.
    I had completely forgotten about the passive buffs we're getting... >.>

    I guess I'll hold on to it until further testing. If it turns out that the 180% debuff isn't that strong then it is a nerf. Well, I can't say exactly a nerf but more like a change in a different direction.

    The reasons I was thinking of upgrading were because I still do PvE quite a bit and occasional farming so having Ironwood have a 100% proc was going to be nice. Then there's the possibility of using Ironwood together with Blazing Barrier/Bramble Guard to force the opponent take more damage. Lastly, I mostly like playing in teams; I'm not a big fan of 1v1s, so having a rebliable Ironwood would have been good for my squad when it's physical DD heavy.

    I was kinda tired of Ironwood not proc'ing during times I really need it but I don't know if the trade is really worth making. I'll have to think about it.
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  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The 5 meter range for melee skills, and the same aoe for fused-mist is very sexy.

    Thanks for sharing, and I hope too the new ironwood has a new icon for the 180% p defense debuff.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    If it does... holy cow that'll be a thing. Potential 220% physical defense debuff (new icon + the 40% being a standard thing) means sage ironwood will have pretty much nothing it can claim as making it fair compared to demon.

    Though it'll be nice to have people NOT CONSTANTLY OVERWRITE THE FREAKIN PHYS BREAK ARGHAFHLAHWOHIOGHIOFOAIH *smashes table*

    Er... um... sorry about that. I just had a teeny tiny bit of pent up frustration from all the times I proc ironwood only to have a cleric or whatever overwrite it.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I doubt it's 180% plus 40%. They wouldn't go that far. The developers make some stupid decisions but they are not that stupid. I was thinking of a different icon that does get overwritten (it's only fair).

    Pretty sure it's going to be the same icon anyway which will make it pretty lame not knowing which debuff you proc'd >.>
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    It'd be kinda nice to see someone testing the skill via a pet so we could have this cleared up.

    Namely so we can see the pet's damage without any pdef debuff, the damage when demon ironwood procs, the damage when the new skill doesn't grant the boost, and the damage when the skill does grant the boost. That'd answer a lot of questions for us and allow the choice of whether or not to get the skill to be a much easier decision.


    And I have zero faith in the devs, Desdi! I'm expecting it to be glitched and be an 1800% reduction or something. b:laugh
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »


    And I have zero faith in the devs, Desdi! I'm expecting it to be glitched and be an 1800% reduction or something. b:laugh

    They might as well make it so glitched that it lowers defence levels too f:meh

    Joking aside, at least it gives some options to people to choose. It would have been bad if it's wasn't optional. I know a handful of Demons who don't like Demon Ironwood because of the proc rate so they will be happy.

    As for me...well, I'll just wait and see how it goes before I decide.

    Also, I'm curious to see the other skills. There have been no word on them yet, are they hard to get? Do you get free materials when you reincarnate for the first book?
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Same here. The very reason my demon veno learned demon ironwood is... high risk high reward. It may not work all the time (why my sage loves her sage ironwood) but when it does work it tends to be a game changer.

    Which is why I kinda feel bad for sages with this. The fact that sage ironwood is more reliable won't have much value anymore and the difference between sage and demon's ironwood debuff really doesn't justify things at all.

    But leaving that aside.... I'm gonna have some FUN on my heavy/robe veno once I get to play with the new fox skills! b:dirty
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Even as an AA I think I'm going to enjoy the skills more.

    Previously I rarely used them in PvP because there was a high chance to miss anyway as I'm an AA build but now I can include Stunning Blow into my playstyle and I can use fused-Befuddling Mist against Archers for the APS debuff as well as to build some chi.

    I think it was a good move at that point; Demons needed a boost in chi making but they kept it to the Demon way (making chi using a target) so it neither changes their chi making way (Sages make chi out of nowhere) nor it gives them a huge advantage (Sage still wins at chi making overall).
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Totally off-topic kinda but...
    (Sage still wins at chi making overall).

    Upgraded sage fox form has me **** out chi on a level that could probably make a sin jealous. Tossing 6-8 sparks to a squad between waves in delta while having full chi to trip spark and/or nova+ nox the new wave as it spawns is hilariously awesome.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »
    Upgraded sage fox form has me **** out chi on a level that could probably make a sin jealous.

    You win for best description.
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  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »
    If it does... holy cow that'll be a thing. Potential 220% physical defense debuff (new icon + the 40% being a standard thing)
    I believe they are able to make 2 icons unstackable and/or cancelling each other. Though it's hard to imagine how it would all work and what to do with other classes' physical debuffs then b:embarrass
    OPKossy wrote: »
    Which is why I kinda feel bad for sages with this. The fact that sage ironwood is more reliable won't have much value anymore and the difference between sage and demon's ironwood debuff really doesn't justify things at all.
    Ooo, don't worry for them! You have already described in details what they got with new foxform and how you feel about it b:laugh There is no reason to feel bad. Actually, we need more demon skills to be less chi consuming to balance it out. I haven't seen any sage veno feeling bad for us about sage soul degeneration b:chuckle
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Ooo, don't worry for them! You have already described in details what they got with new foxform and how you feel about it b:laugh There is no reason to feel bad. Actually, we need more demon skills to be less chi consuming to balance it out. I haven't seen any sage veno feeling bad for us about sage soul degeneration b:chuckle

    Clearly, it's because Demon Frost scarab kinda has a use almost... kinda... maybe.... not that I ever use it even though I have it learned... b:avoid

    Love my demon and sage venos. So fun to see how I play the same class differently based on cultivation.

    ... I should stop derailing this. b:surrender
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    It's ok, it's kinda quiet here anyway :( nothing new to talk about.
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