More skill updates for Venos! Discuss

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

@Azura: Its not about understanding here. Its about balance between the paths. Tho demon as we have it dont always proc; it makes targets go down fast when it does. The sage path was to have a reliable debuff, wich always procced; but wasnt so powerful it outblanaced the demon one. With a change like this; Demon becomes alot more powerful than sage, regardless of how you feel about it.

@Desdi: Yes the accuracy boost really does matter to us. And tho its not a huge issue; its sort of a principle of things. Tho auto attack happens, even in pvp, we still rely on skill use to take down enemies (having a 3k added on top of normal attack; followed by debuffs actually makes a difference). So if all skills hit, we should get someyhing in return.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Figured. I'd probably have been annoyed too if I was HA or LA since back in the days when I was working on a HA venomancer alt, it was planned to be Sage from the start. Well, that plan was scrapped in the end as I decided to be cheap and stick to just AA alts xD

Marengo - Lost City

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Azura: Its not about understanding here. Its about balance between the paths. Tho demon as we have it dont always proc; it makes targets go down fast when it does. The sage path was to have a reliable debuff, wich always procced; but wasnt so powerful it outblanaced the demon one. With a change like this; Demon becomes alot more powerful than sage, regardless of how you feel about it.

Veno hits with magic, this debuff isn't even that necessary all the time. Ppl just won't feel it, when i catch this debuff from a sage veno it doesn't make a big difference. Few hits from a pet and hello, purify spell b:cute

Tho auto attack happens, even in pvp

Yes, by accident b:tired

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

@Marengo: Just because you dont feel it, dont mean its neglectable. Just cause a pet can proc a game breaker that purify is, dont mean its neglectible. Having a 40% decrease in p.def after a purge (wich any good veno will do), its certainly noticable when the archer smack you right after, or for that matter, when the veno hits you with arcane antitomy

Vedovis - Lost City

20% chance to reduce pdef to 0 > 20% chance to reduce pdef by 150%. The new ironwood apparently has the exact same chance to reduce by a higher amount [20%]. I would always prefer the chance to drop it to 0. I'm very annoyed by this news. Like I said if a veno wanted a reliable ironwood they could pick sage. >_>;

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Wait when do we get all this stuff? from the update in Dec or before?

Desdi - Sanctuary

It's currently just being tested on the PWCN test server. Potentially being released on the 24th in PWCN? It will probably take a couple of months until we receive these updates.

Also keep in mind that things added to the test server are subject to change and may or may not be what we receive in the end.

As for Ironwood. I've mentioned that I'm kinda torn inbetween. I see value in both current and possible future Ironwood.
Though not every Demon Venomancer liked Demon Ironwood. For me, it was one of the skills that made me choose Demon but there are quite a few Demon Venomancers that I could name who didn't like it but chose Demon for other reasons.

A 40% physical debuff does make a difference in team play and a debuff is definitely better than no debuff at all. I know that first hand from playing Sage in PvP too. I did/do rely on Demon Ironwood proc a lot but in squad/team settings it often didn't proc when I wanted it the most (I'm not including Myriad into this since the future Ironwood kinda works the same).
This is not a complaint by the way, just an observation. I never complained about Ironwood's proc but given the possible future change, I'll have to adapt and find ways to take advantage of this new change.
You know how Wanmei is, if it gets out of the test server chances are that it won't ever be reverted back.

Desdi - Sanctuary

New video with new skills?

Looks like some sneak peak on our new skills? One seems to be for human form and then other for fox form but looks like nothing related to the spirit form.

Also this. Whatever it is, it appears to affect pets too.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

Kinda looms like a melee skill for human form n a magical skill for fox form o.o Not sure how to feel about that 3:

Desdi - Sanctuary

The Cleric skills in the video kinda look like a new look for BB and RB so I'm not sure yet if those skills shown for us are really new or just the new look of the "fused" Ironwood and the "fused" befuddling

DeffyNature - Archosaur

Indeed, the trailer, I suspect, shows the skills that have suffered changes, be it new skills or simply fused/upgraded skills.
Got to say, RB and BB look awesome!

Azura - Lost City

I'm really nervous about this update.

So far I've heard some nice changes to some classes, and bs for others. Like barbs, 2min cd for king's beast inspiration. Really?

The new demon ironwood. I just don't want it...There are so many options for a constant physical debuff such as: getting a barb to use devour, or add a skill to your pet. And finally, there is the option to be sage too...

I'm theorizing that these new changes to skills will be related to the reincarnation system. So in a way these changes may be optional. But, when the classes that will willingly reincarnate do so, because they have all to win, and when they start to win those extra "stat points", I'm gonna be forced to reincarnate too, or just get out of way...

Desdi - Sanctuary

I think so too, it must be related to this Reincarnation system thing.
Someone in the other thread pointed out that these skills seem to have a new ID or something which means, unlike the previous skills, these changes are not "written over" but are "separate".

At least this is what I've understood.

DeffyNature - Archosaur

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I'm really nervous about this update.

So far I've heard some nice changes to some classes, and bs for others. Like barbs, 2min cd for king's beast inspiration. Really?

The new demon ironwood. I just don't want it...There are so many options for a constant physical debuff such as: getting a barb to use devour, or add a skill to your pet. And finally, there is the option to be sage too...

I'm theorizing that these new changes to skills will be related to the reincarnation system. So in a way these changes may be optional. But, when the classes that will willingly reincarnate do so, because they have all to win, and when they start to win those extra "stat points", I'm gonna be forced to reincarnate too, or just get out of way...

I somehow doubt it, I mean, even with google translate, the news said that the Reincarnation brings new stats and character evolution, and the skill changes were separately discussed. I guess we have to wait for the 24th to be sure ...

dupethefile

Desdi: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=19989501&postcount=254

I only wanna the fox skills deals a good damage.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

This seems like a real **** over for sage venos, especially fox form users. This +the removal of DQ points might just end up being the nail in the coffin for me -.-'

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

ehh sage will always come before Demons no matter what trust me >.> in most things. Everybody want's sage. (i'm demon). i actually get tired of hearing in wc 'i want sage amp' when people do FW it's like i wanna say Demon amp is just as good just no aoe lol.

I'm curious about the new skills. I hope they are worth it. I'm still working on the 100 celestial skills.

Marengo - Lost City

Untamed_pain - Archosaur wrote: »

when people do FW it's like i wanna say Demon amp is just as good just no aoe lol.

Sage amp isn't aoe either f:stare

SanChan - Heavens Tear

wait wait woot ?? They fuse our only spammable AoE into a single hit skill ? Hope we get another AoE for that if not that

Desdi - Sanctuary

Probably mixed up Amplify Damage with Purge o.o for an IG Warsong case the Soul Degeneration + Sage Amplify damage are superior. Pretty sure nothing will change in that aspect of the game. Sages will still be slightly superior in terms of farming instances.

That's for PvE though :P most Venomancers are concerned about the PvP aspect, at least those commenting in this thread. We can't say for sure though until we see their effects in-game first. These are all theories at this point.
Remember how most people just said "meh" to the Venomancer Morai skills until people figured out how to use them best in PvP...

Desdi - Sanctuary

SanChan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wait wait woot ?? They fuse our only spammable AoE into a single hit skill ? Hope we get another AoE for that if not that

Unfortunately here's the whole thing;

Fused-Befuddling Mist is changed to single target and Malefic Crush cooldown increased to 180s due to the secondary effect it gets (still doesn't justify it for me). That means fox form will lack any form of good AOE. Myriad doesn't count much since it's mostly debuffing.

It doesn't hurt me personally because I relied mostly on the human form AOEs and my Harpy but I can see how it will affect HA/LA builds who probably use them.

Looks like the update caters, again, towards AA builds being the ones getting most benefits out of this.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

To lose my only physical aoe thats any use woukd really hurt. Theres a reason its my number one most used fox form skill. I dont really think this caters THAT much to the aa in comparison. But I cant lose the feeling of demons getting the good hand here.

Especially with ironwood, to make sage equally good youd need a 60% decrease in p.def to come on par with the new demon. (4x40+150=310, 60x5=300)

If they are going to make accuracy useless tho, I would like to see a small compensation, maybe an increase in evasion?

Vedovis - Lost City

No foxform AoE anymore? ....I'm liking this update less and less. Aren't they also nerfing lv10 Nova's weapon damage %? From 300% to 200%?

Desdi - Sanctuary

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

No foxform AoE anymore? ....I'm liking this update less and less. Aren't they also nerfing lv10 Nova's weapon damage %? From 300% to 200%?

Yes, they are nerfing the damage in order to increase the % of the proc. Not a completely terrible trade, at least you get something decent in return, but I still find it an unnecessary and absurd change.

Marengo - Lost City

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, they are nerfing the damage in order to increase the % of the proc. Not a completely terrible trade, at least you get something decent in return, but I still find it an unnecessary and absurd change.

95% is not enough? O__o
It's a completely terrible trade.

I was talking about damage we need and now i learn they are nerfing it instead... b:laugh

I knew venos are hated, but didn't expect us to be hated even by devs b:surrender

Desdi - Sanctuary

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

95% is not enough? O__o
It's a completely terrible trade.

I was talking about damage we need and now i learn they are nerfing it instead... b:laugh

I knew venos are hated, but didn't expect us to be hated even by devs b:surrender

It's the level10 Parasitic Nova which has 67% chance to proc. Lvl11 seems to be untouched as far as I can tell.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Here's some news:


Based on Asterelle's post there is a chance the new "updated" skills might just be new skillbooks you can acquire to learn.

If that's the case it should make the Demons happy because it would mean they can keep current Ironwood and for the HA/LAs or whoever else they can keep their AOE Befuddling.

It's just a speculation. I also wonder if the fused-befuddling might just be an entirely new skill that leaves actual Befuddling Mist and Fox Wallop untouched unless learning a new book auto-fuses these two new skills.

Skill trees seem to be untouched.

Marengo - Lost City

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's the level10 Parasitic Nova which has 67% chance to proc. Lvl11 seems to be untouched as far as I can tell.

Misread about lvl10. But still, what for? Like lvl10 nova really hurts. No dragons, no reduced chi. What was wrong with it?

I wonder what is average def/attck lvl for top-geared players in China. I think they don't have blessings so should be lower, while def lvl should be about the same. Nerfing damage is beyond my understanding really.

Based on Asterelle's post there is a chance the new "updated" skills might just be new skillbooks you can acquire to learn.

A bit of good news I hoped for books but they could make it ovewritten like in previous skills update.

Sins and BMs will be happy if foxes use their fox form skills more actively, no need to catch kiting target any more lol

Desdi - Sanctuary

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Misread about lvl10. But still, what for? Like lvl10 nova really hurts. No dragons, no reduced chi. What was wrong with it?

Don't ask me, poke the devs..they seem to be messing up with the skills for all classes.
I can see the proc rate increase useful for Venomancers who can't deal much damage to begin with so they can just use it to CC more. The 67% wasn't entirely bad but 67% and 95% is a big difference.

It still makes no sense why they'd nerf the damage though. I suppose they tried to make it so that both lvl10 and Sage/Demon have the same percentage so once you upgrade you get the big damage boost except that..the damage boost wasn't all that big to begin with.

A bit of good news I hoped for books but they could make it ovewritten like in previous skills update.

I would like if its skillbooks, really. It would make things so much better and so much easier for the Venomancers. They could just choose what to upgrade and what not. Plus, for those who like hunting new skills like I do, it would be a nice added challenge b:surrender

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

With skill books for new stuff it still wont really solve the balancing issues tho. Wether its a new skill all together or actually fused skills. Demon is still more powerful, and if you think about it.. fox wallop and blazing scarab are two skills that are hardly ever used. It coukd somehow make sense to put em into new skills. Wether ironwood will.be an entirely new skill, or just a fuse; the fox form attack.will be the same. Im still a bit ragy about sage being shafted here, and fox form even more so. But gonna stop ranting bout it at least for now 3: