Mystic, Veno or Cleric Damage comparison?

Kniraven - Lost City

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

you are the idiot, read again...

K, I read again. I didn't see anything new. What was I looking for?

REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

Allisandre - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

Since Venomancers have been around for 4 years, and mystics have been around for a fraction of that time, any reference to rankings or KD ratios is pure BS.

Also, there's a lot fewer people that play clerics in PvP, so of course they won't rate high on the rankings. This does not make them any less lethal when you come across one in PvP. I happen to drop R9 archers and Sins all day on my 100 cleric, and that's not an easy feat with marginal R8 gear. You just have to know how to play your class.

As far as actual damage goes, comparing similar gear, the cleric is likely last, but very close to the venomancer, and I would put the Mystic in front because of the numerous tools they have available to deal damage.

The OP asks for a damage comparison, so blathering on about bugged rankings is just idiotic.

Personally though, the best damage class of them all, with quite a high survivability rating, is the Psy. In PvP, my little level 42 Psy was dropping Bm's and Wizards in the 80's. Imagine if I had full R9r3?
Again, it all comes down to knowing how to play your class, and knowing how your class, and your opponents class, works in PvP.

MiniST - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

K, I read again. I didn't see anything new. What was I looking for?

REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

You are looking for the english language.

Kniraven - Lost City

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

Since Venomancers have been around for 4 years, and mystics have been around for a fraction of that time, any reference to rankings or KD ratios is pure BS.

I like how you deleted the portion of my quote that answered your rebuttal before you ever made it.

Kill/Death statistics show how often the class kills as opposed to dies. Whether that is 1,000 kills and 250 deaths over 4 years or 100 kills and 25 deaths in a few months, the rate would still be 4/1.

As for the rest of your nonsense, the Euro forums rankings work just fine unlike ours.

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are looking for the english language.

Yup. I am. I haven't found it anywhere in your post and I am done searching.

Rerum - Sanctuary

Venos deal far less damage overall, but are far more resourceful... where do I start:

Venos have two anti stuns, two amplify damage skills, two skills that can reduce your def/mdef to 0, a wood debuff on their basic attack, a nasty channeling and antiaps debuff, a quick burst of speed skill, a mini ironguard skill, the ability to swap MP for HP when HP runs low and viceversa, massive hp/mp healing skills, bramble, a 75% damage reduction skill, the pet that also has stun by itself that you can trigger even if you are stunned/disabled.

As if that were not enough on the last update they upgraded MOST (ALL?) of their offensive skills so they now deal decent damage, and also are getting a new transformation skill with a new skill that gives massive dodge and healing.... seriously you want anything else?.

Among the ones you mentioned Cleric is the heaviest Magic Damage Dealer with a increased critical debuff, a skill that pierces def/shield/invoque a mdef debuff and a metal debuff nuke, they also can achieve a very high magic attack in the game (non sparked of course) thanks to Tianyu Purple Night Dance (permanent buff) and Demon spirit Gift (Refresh-able and spam-able), they are also quite squishy though.

Edit: Removed some useless and off topic comments.

Kniraven - Lost City

Rerum - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos deal far less damage overall, but are far more resourceful... where do I start:

Venos have two anti stuns, two amplify damage skills, two skills that can reduce your def/mdef to 0, a wood debuff on their basic attack, a nasty channeling and antiaps debuff, a quick burst of speed skill, a mini ironguard skill, the ability to swap MP for HP when HP runs low and viceversa, massive hp/mp healing skills, bramble, a 75% damage reduction skill, the pet that also has stun by itself that you can trigger even if you are stunned/disabled.

As if that were not enough on the last update they upgraded MOST (ALL?) of their offensive skills so they now deal decent damage, and also are getting a new transformation skill with a new skill that gives massive dodge and healing.... seriously you want anything else?.

Among the ones you mentioned Cleric is the heaviest Magic Damage Dealer with a increased critical debuff, a skill that pierces def/shield/invoque a mdef debuff and a metal debuff nuke, is also the class with the highest magic attack in the game (non sparked of course) thanks to Tianyu Purple Night Dance and Demon spirit Gift, they are also quite squishy though.

I agree with everything said here.

MiniST - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I like how you deleted the portion of my quote that answered your rebuttal before you ever made it.

Kill/Death statistics show how often the class kills as opposed to dies. Whether that is 1,000 kills and 250 deaths over 4 years or 100 kills and 25 deaths in a few months, the rate would still be 4/1.


Yup. I am. I haven't found it anywhere in your post and I am done searching.

I like how when people state that mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, their servers must be full of fail mystics

k, let's have a 3rd grade language lesson here and break up this "impossibly hard sentence" for you to understand. In the thread, people have been stating mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, and their reason is that the server is full of fail mystic. When you use "i like" in front of such a unfounded statement, it's sarcasm. Understand now? b:chuckle

Kniraven - Lost City

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like how when people state that mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, their servers must be full of fail mystics

k, let's have a 3rd grade language lesson here and break up this "impossibly hard sentence" for you to understand. In the thread, people have been stating mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, and their reason is that the server is full of fail mystic. When you use "i like" in front of such a unfounded statement, it's sarcasm. Understand now? b:chuckle

I don't think your sarcasm was as well implied as you thought b:chuckle
But alright, I misunderstood and i apologize for calling you an idiot.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You're an idiot. The post right before yours proves Venos do better than Mystics in pvp on every single server.

Now THAT is a statement that has complete class-racism against mystics. PVP rankings mean NOTHING, as venos have been around for ages, and always been a favored class for solo game-play, as opposed to mystics which are still very young, and not everyone cares to play. You can never compare something that's way old to something that's way new. You don't get what people are telling you, do you? You have the thickest head I have ever seen anyone have. In the simplest form:

Venos: Been around since the beginning

Mystics: Been around since 2011.

Do you not get the difference in the PVP rankings between the time of creation for each class and its popularity?

Kniraven - Lost City

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now THAT is a statement that has complete class-racism against mystics. PVP rankings mean NOTHING, as venos have been around for ages, and always been a favored class for solo game-play, as opposed to mystics which are still very young, and not everyone cares to play. You can never compare something that's way old to something that's way new. You don't get what people are telling you, do you? You have the thickest head I have ever seen anyone have. In the simplest form:

Venos: Been around since the beginning

Mystics: Been around since 2011.

Do you not get the difference in the PVP rankings between the time of creation for each class and its popularity?

You're making me quote myself again. Read before you post. I've addressed this already in like 5 posts.

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Kill/Death statistics show how often the class kills as opposed to dies. Whether that is 1,000 kills and 250 deaths over 4 years or 100 kills and 25 deaths in a few months, the rate would still be 4/1.

As for the rest of your nonsense, the Euro forums rankings work just fine unlike ours.

As a side note. Sins, Psychics, and even Seekers are all in the first page of PvP rankings. All of them are new.


REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

PVP ranking are just how many times you can kill someone less geared than you.... they do not really count.

I have fought equally geared mystics on my veno and they have just as much chance to kill me as I do them. It comes down to timing and sometimes how crappy a connection one has at the time. Overall from experience I would say a evenly geared / skilled veno vs mystic could go either way.... eventually someone is going to **** up in advanced rock paper scissors.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PVP ranking are just how many times you can kill someone less geared than you.... they do not really count.

I have fought equally geared mystics on my veno and they have just as much chance to kill me as I do them. It comes down to timing and sometimes how crappy a connection one has at the time. Overall from experience I would say a evenly geared / skilled veno vs mystic could go either way.... eventually someone is going to **** up in advanced rock paper scissors.

That's practically what I'm trying to explain to him, but he's got too small of a brain to comprehend that. He thinks PVP rankings are absolute. Just ignore him. He's a stupid troll under a stupid bridge in a veno-obsessed world and has no idea what the hell he's talking about who worships Savor as the ultimate veno as a godlike figure. And what you say also goes for any "Class vs class" of equal gear or related. It's people like him who don't understand "skill" of a character is what counts, not PVP rankings page and I'm guessing he's also a fail BM as he'd probably start to say "BM is better then (class)". He doesn't know skill when he sees it.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You're making me quote myself again. Read before you post. I've addressed this already in like 5 posts.



As a side note. Sins, Psychics, and even Seekers are all in the first page of PvP rankings. All of them are new.


REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

I am not sure if you're a troll or not, but how does a ranking page that simply display's someones KDR prove anything in regards to the damage potential of a mystic,veno and cleric?

Also venos have been around much longer than mystics, of course as of now the overall KDR for venos vs mystic is much higher.

Kniraven - Lost City

Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PVP ranking are just how many times you can kill someone less geared than you.... they do not really count.

I have fought equally geared mystics on my veno and they have just as much chance to kill me as I do them. It comes down to timing and sometimes how crappy a connection one has at the time. Overall from experience I would say a evenly geared / skilled veno vs mystic could go either way.... eventually someone is going to **** up in advanced rock paper scissors.

So, what you are saying is that well geared players don't fight each other, they just camp low levels, and that furthermore Mystics are an exception to this rule and they die more often than they kill things because everyone who plays is a Mystic is an honorable and kind person.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am not sure if you're a troll or not, but how does a ranking page that simply display's someones KDR prove anything in regards to the damage potential of a mystic,veno and cleric?

It doesn't. This is an off topic argument started many pages ago. Best DPS class of the 3 is cleric.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Also need to factor in the general attitude prevalent about clerics, even from many clerics themselves. You have clerics who would fight, saying that clerics were: terrible at leveling, did terrible damage, and were only good for healing. Heck, I got ******* at by every cleric who posted when I first pointed out how easy it was to gather up 20+ poison mobs to AoE. It took over 3 pages, a detailed description, multiple pictures, and a better internet connection to show what I had been doing for months before people finally accepted it.

Main thing is, more than half of all clerics usually focus on being a healer type. They would do terrible at PvP regardless, unless they heavily outgear their target. Then there is the people who really don't know what they are doing, who do bad no matter what.

The sad fact is, most clerics aren't capable of PvP because their players aren't. You have to fight like crazy to get them to understand how good skill X is, and it's just not worth it. Most of the clerics I kill in NW don't even understand the defense skill cycle, they just plume and pray. So we're not going to really see clerics shine; both due to their own ingrained biases, and the biases of groups they typically join.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

So, what you are saying is that well geared players don't fight each other, they just camp low levels, and that furthermore Mystics are an exception to this rule and they die more often than they kill things because everyone who plays is a Mystic is an honorable and kind person.



It doesn't. This is an off topic argument started many pages ago. Best DPS class of the 3 is cleric.

A cleric is? Interesting, from what are you basing that on?

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A cleric is? Interesting, from what are you basing that on?

I bet he's gonna pull up another trash page that proves nothing whatsoever proving they are best DPS of the 3.

TRUE STORY:

The Saturday event, for Sir Cuddlesworth last year. A LOT of 5aps, clerics, and others...and 1 mystic...people were hitting the teddybear. After the time limit was up....MYSTIC>5APS and got the Sir Cuddlesworth pet. I was there and saw it with my own eyes.

Kniraven - Lost City

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also need to factor in the general attitude prevalent about clerics, even from many clerics themselves. You have clerics who would fight, saying that clerics were: terrible at leveling, did terrible damage, and were only good for healing. Heck, I got ******* at by every cleric who posted when I first pointed out how easy it was to gather up 20+ poison mobs to AoE. It took over 3 pages, a detailed description, multiple pictures, and a better internet connection to show what I had been doing for months before people finally accepted it.

Main thing is, more than half of all clerics usually focus on being a healer type. They would do terrible at PvP regardless, unless they heavily outgear their target. Then there is the people who really don't know what they are doing, who do bad no matter what.

The sad fact is, most clerics aren't capable of PvP because their players aren't. You have to fight like crazy to get them to understand how good skill X is, and it's just not worth it. Most of the clerics I kill in NW don't even understand the defense skill cycle, they just plume and pray. So we're not going to really see clerics shine; both due to their own ingrained biases, and the biases of groups they typically join.

This is all true.
Clerics are actually a fantastic class with fairly good pvp potential but they aren't really seen as a competitive class so more skilled players don't often use them.
Like I mentioned last post, of these 3 classes, clerics have the best DPS potential. They just aren't given that role.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A cleric is? Interesting, from what are you basing that on?

I would sure like to know myself, is this settled or just an opinion?

Kniraven - Lost City

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A cleric is? Interesting, from what are you basing that on?

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would sure like to know myself, is this settled or just an opinion?

Cleric being the best DPS of the three is currently just hypothesis/opinion, I'm not willing to do the math for it because I'd have to include the two other class's pets. I'll list a quote that sums it up well though.

Rerum - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos deal far less damage overall, but are far more resourceful... where do I start:

Venos have two anti stuns, two amplify damage skills, two skills that can reduce your def/mdef to 0, a wood debuff on their basic attack, a nasty channeling and antiaps debuff, a quick burst of speed skill, a mini ironguard skill, the ability to swap MP for HP when HP runs low and viceversa, massive hp/mp healing skills, bramble, a 75% damage reduction skill, the pet that also has stun by itself that you can trigger even if you are stunned/disabled.

As if that were not enough on the last update they upgraded MOST (ALL?) of their offensive skills so they now deal decent damage, and also are getting a new transformation skill with a new skill that gives massive dodge and healing.... seriously you want anything else?.

Among the ones you mentioned Cleric is the heaviest Magic Damage Dealer with a increased critical debuff, a skill that pierces def/shield/invoque a mdef debuff and a metal debuff nuke, they also can achieve a very high magic attack in the game (non sparked of course) thanks to Tianyu Purple Night Dance (permanent buff) and Demon spirit Gift (Refresh-able and spam-able), they are also quite squishy though.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You're making me quote myself again. Read before you post. I've addressed this already in like 5 posts.



As a side note. Sins, Psychics, and even Seekers are all in the first page of PvP rankings. All of them are new.


REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

Cause almost no one play mystic as main and people doing it are not old players. Seriously without joking there's about 5 mains mystics on HL the rest are all alts and on that majority don't PvP.

There's how many veno use as main and that PvP?

In my faction that is the second biggest TW faction on the map I'm the only mystic.

Before the sins exist I think there was about 75% that was veno on everyone cause that was the farming class for TT, than when sins appear people all jumped on sins for the same reasons, when EG appear some people rolled them as alt, cause they already have their sins/venos for farm so they play seek/myst for fun as alt.

Savor have maybe only a year experience on veno, but have more than a year experience in the game. While majority of the few people playing seek/myst arrived to the game way after the EG expansion (less than 2 years experience in the game).

Which is my point you can't compare old class of over 4 years existence to a class that exist since less than 2 years.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

This is all true.
Clerics are actually a fantastic class with fairly good pvp potential but they aren't really seen as a competitive class so more skilled players don't often use them.
Like I mentioned last post, of these 3 classes, clerics have the best DPS potential. They just aren't given that role.

Stop making up BS opinions up. Shoo Shoo troll!

Kniraven - Lost City

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stop making up BS opinions up. Shoo Shoo troll!

I was agreeing with someones post. But seriously I'm just going to ignore you at this point. You have proven you can't read before posting.
You can't support any arguments you make.
You can't even communicate what you want to say properly. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English is not your native language.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

About clerics in the first page or not.

Even if there was 15 clerics in the first page that doesn't mean they are good clerics.

I have clerics on my server that are ''good'' metal wizz, but have no clues how to freaking heal a cata barb, cleric that let die their cata barb (or other in squad) for DD on other players.

They are good metal wizz, sure, but as cleric they are more than fail.

I really doubt about cleric's capacities of the metal wizz in the ranking.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would sure like to know myself, is this settled or just an opinion?

I think most are going off of sustained DPS on a boss, if we're assuming it doesn't get APSed in seconds. In that case it isn't a matter of "with X combo of skills I can.....", it breaks down to damage a skill causes, divided by time it takes to channel and cast. Higher levels of -chan will of course skew the results, but the old comparison between wizzie and cleric was basically their two basic skills.

The wizzie of course had some harder hitting skills, but the length of time to channel rendered them incapable of being considered DPS skills. Which is why it defaulted to the base ones, and the difference between Cyclone/Plumeshot and Pyrogram/Gush was basically .2 second cast.

That was before Dance though. Now with that additional boost to damage capacity, the cleric would beat the wizzie in sustained DPS. The result will likely stay the same, though if someone feels like mathing it over with the new stuff feel free. And most likely the same result will be reproduced amongst the other comparisons available.

For a short burst, there likely is combos that beat what a cleric is capable of. But for that to skew the odds enough, it usually requires a short boss fight to prevent diluting the specific high damage combo. And if it's that short, the answer to who is a better DPS is usually, "who cares?"

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

Rerum - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos deal far less damage overall, but are far more resourceful... where do I start:

Venos have two anti stuns, two amplify damage skills, two skills that can reduce your def/mdef to 0, a wood debuff on their basic attack, a nasty channeling and antiaps debuff, a quick burst of speed skill, a mini ironguard skill, the ability to swap MP for HP when HP runs low and viceversa, massive hp/mp healing skills, bramble, a 75% damage reduction skill, the pet that also has stun by itself that you can trigger even if you are stunned/disabled.

As if that were not enough on the last update they upgraded MOST (ALL?) of their offensive skills so they now deal decent damage, and also are getting a new transformation skill with a new skill that gives massive dodge and healing.... seriously you want anything else?.

Among the ones you mentioned Cleric is the heaviest Magic Damage Dealer with a increased critical debuff, a skill that pierces def/shield/invoque a mdef debuff and a metal debuff nuke, they also can achieve a very high magic attack in the game (non sparked of course) thanks to Tianyu Purple Night Dance (permanent buff) and Demon spirit Gift (Refresh-able and spam-able), they are also quite squishy though.

Edit: Removed some useless and off topic comments.

Theres a few things Id like to point out here. All venos does not have the skills listed above. In fact, most venos dont have 2 anti stuns, as one is a rarely aquired DEMON skill, while the other is a Morai skill that yes, most venos can aquire, but most of us seem to favor blazing barrier n puffbird first. This last one also costs a spark.

Wood debuff on primary attack is DEMON poisonous scarab. Pet stun would generally mean the veno coughed up coins for a legendary pet, unless they put a boo boo scroll to use. You dont have control of your pet in a stunned status. If its set to auto use pounce and it cools down, you might get lucky. As a side note, pet is needed nearby for morai anti stun skill.

As for burst of speed, we are again talking about a DEMON venomancer. You seem to think we all are demon here. And when it comes to the new skills, we.dont know when they are released here. and the 400% dodge for most venos will mean 2000 evasion or so. very massive

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I was agreeing with someones post. But seriously I'm just going to ignore you at this point. You have proven you can't read before posting.
You can't support any arguments you make.
You can't even communicate what you want to say properly. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English is not your native language.

Who here believes this guy is making everything up from he's own opinion and hates mystics completely?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You're an idiot. The post right before yours proves Venos do better than Mystics in pvp on every single server.

You are trying to compare a class thats been out for ~5 years to a class thats been out for ~1 year... in terms of absolute kills? Average that out and you'll see mystics gets more kills per year then venos. By rankings... the top mystic has 6k kills and the top veno has 12.5k kills. That might sound impressive... until the non idiots realize that venos has been around for ~3 times the amount of time that mystics has... and yet only have ~2 times more kills.

Regarding the k/d ratio... a lot of the veno (especially veno from the old days) are skewed toward the high end. Reason being that their nix's bleed was extremely powerful during 5x-9x period (nix was first released when the server was starting to see 6x players) . And unlike today, back in the days it took a good part of a whole year to level to 9x... and during that time a nix could bleed any non heavy armor to death. And since the nix is doing all the work... the veno itself can stay relatively safe. Now that everyone is geared up... nix is no longer an issue (more like an annoyance at best), the venos actually have to do more work to get that kill... and of course put themselves in the line of fire.

FACT: Before easy access to gears... most of the gear dependent dds' k/d is pinned under 2.0... whiles venos has easy access to the 3+. I think my was 2.2 at anni pack release... simply its impractical to survive a nix bleed in pk/tw.... especially before 9x. I think at 9x I was able to survive a bleed if I double pot. After the gear release and nix becoming a nonfactor... my k/d in notable tws easily surpasses 5... and now with more readily access to defense options (genies/def charm/better pots) my nation war k/d can very well be 40/1 at times and contribution well north of 15k.

I am not sure why anyone would try to convince others that a single veno can kill mystics/clerics. There is additional 2 robe, 2 la, and 2 heavy classes out there. Is it not feasible to ignore them when you go out for whatever pk. Regardless of what a single veno think he can do... or what a singler person think the said veno can do... that doesn't change the fact that mystics have the greatest offense potential of the 3 choices.

Disclaimer; I have a 102 veno and a 100 mystic on the same account with stash... with a 98 cleric on a separate account. Before anyone even try to jump on one side or the other... at least have played all the classes... instead of trying to go off what you think/know one class can do. Would be ironic if you end up being better at another.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Who here believes this guy is making everything up from he's own opinion and hates mystics completely?

I think he got killed by mystics one too many times.

Kniraven - Lost City

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You are trying to compare a class thats been out for ~5 years to a class thats been out for ~1 year... in terms of absolute kills? Average that out and you'll see mystics gets more kills per year then venos. By rankings... the top mystic has 6k kills and the top veno has 12.5k kills. That might sound impressive... until the non idiots realize that venos has been around for ~3 times the amount of time that mystics has... and yet only have ~2 times more kills.

I didn't at any point use total kills as a reference.

Regarding the k/d ratio... a lot of the veno (especially veno from the old days) are skewed toward the high end. Reason being that their nix's bleed was extremely powerful during 5x-9x period (nix was first released when the server was starting to see 6x players) . And unlike today, back in the days it took a good part of a whole year to level to 9x... and during that time a nix could bleed any non heavy armor to death. And since the nix is doing all the work... the veno itself can stay relatively safe. Now that everyone is geared up... nix is no longer an issue (more like an annoyance at best), the venos actually have to do more work to get that kill... and of course put themselves in the line of fire.

FACT: Before easy access to gears... most of the gear dependent dds' k/d is pinned under 2.0... whiles venos has easy access to the 3+. I think my was 2.2 at anni pack release... simply its impractical to survive a nix bleed in pk/tw.... especially before 9x. I think at 9x I was able to survive a bleed if I double pot. After the gear release and nix becoming a nonfactor... my k/d in notable tws easily surpasses 5... and now with more readily access to defense options (genies/def charm/better pots) my nation war k/d can very well be 40/1 at times and contribution well north of 15k.

K/D ratio still favors Venos and Clerics above Mystic even if all older toons from the game were disqualified. There is no Mystic on any server at all with a high enough K/D ratio to even make it on the All Class list.

I am not sure why anyone would try to convince others that a single veno can kill mystics/clerics. There is additional 2 robe, 2 la, and 2 heavy classes out there. Is it not feasible to ignore them when you go out for whatever pk. Regardless of what a single veno think he can do... or what a singler person think the said veno can do... that doesn't change the fact that mystics have the greatest offense potential of the 3 choices.

I'm not even sure what you're referencing here. That last statement however has no evidence at all to support it.

Disclaimer; I have a 102 veno and a 100 mystic on the same account with stash... with a 98 cleric on a separate account. Before anyone even try to jump on one side or the other... at least have played all the classes... instead of trying to go off what you think/know one class can do. Would be ironic if you end up being better at another.

I've played Veno and Mystic classes as rank 9. Ep is only NV but meh.


I think he got killed by mystics one too many times.
I can only think of one Mystic that has killed me. Probably more have at some point or another but that is kind of irrelevant.

Replied underneath paragraphs.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You are trying to compare a class thats been out for ~5 years to a class thats been out for ~1 year... in terms of absolute kills? Average that out and you'll see mystics gets more kills per year then venos. By rankings... the top mystic has 6k kills and the top veno has 12.5k kills. That might sound impressive... until the non idiots realize that venos has been around for ~3 times the amount of time that mystics has... and yet only have ~2 times more kills.

Regarding the k/d ratio... a lot of the veno (especially veno from the old days) are skewed toward the high end. Reason being that their nix's bleed was extremely powerful during 5x-9x period (nix was first released when the server was starting to see 6x players) . And unlike today, back in the days it took a good part of a whole year to level to 9x... and during that time a nix could bleed any non heavy armor to death. And since the nix is doing all the work... the veno itself can stay relatively safe. Now that everyone is geared up... nix is no longer an issue (more like an annoyance at best), the venos actually have to do more work to get that kill... and of course put themselves in the line of fire.

FACT: Before easy access to gears... most of the gear dependent dds' k/d is pinned under 2.0... whiles venos has easy access to the 3+. I think my was 2.2 at anni pack release... simply its impractical to survive a nix bleed in pk/tw.... especially before 9x. I think at 9x I was able to survive a bleed if I double pot. After the gear release and nix becoming a nonfactor... my k/d in notable tws easily surpasses 5... and now with more readily access to defense options (genies/def charm/better pots) my nation war k/d can very well be 40/1 at times and contribution well north of 15k.

I am not sure why anyone would try to convince others that a single veno can kill mystics/clerics. There is additional 2 robe, 2 la, and 2 heavy classes out there. Is it not feasible to ignore them when you go out for whatever pk. Regardless of what a single veno think he can do... or what a singler person think the said veno can do... that doesn't change the fact that mystics have the greatest offense potential of the 3 choices.

Disclaimer; I have a 102 veno and a 100 mystic on the same account with stash... with a 98 cleric on a separate account. Before anyone even try to jump on one side or the other... at least have played all the classes... instead of trying to go off what you think/know one class can do. Would be ironic if you end up being better at another.



I think he got killed by mystics one too many times.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was hoping to get across with my initial post.

@ Kniraven I am not saying that Clerics do not have high DPS potential, as I have played all 3(Veno,Mystic,Cleric), and to be honest I am still under the opinion a mystic has the highest DPS potential, that is factoring in Cragglord as well?. But feel free to correct me on this, I am just basing this on my experience and from what I have seen in my time playing this game .

When it comes to PvP I must say my mystic does a far better job than my cleric in actually surviving and killing. I assume it's because I can just keep my pet at a distance in a 1v1 for example and just camp my heals/shields while kiting, then simply go for a Thicket/DD/Sleep combo. But I must say when it comes to fighting a Cleric/Mystic, I still feel the mystic is more of a threat to me and has much superior offensive ability than a cleric. If I had to give the names of two I come across that are a huge pain, it is definitely Jasriana(Mystic) and Dailura(Cleric), apologies if I misspelled your names e.e.