Mystic, Veno or Cleric Damage comparison?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In a 1v1, a mystic is a real pain. They can attack sleeped targets without waking them up, thry got a "stun" you cant break free from that increases the damage you take, they got the 'only' pvp push skill, shields and pets with various skills increaong damage output considerably. Their channels are fast, and can give them a very high dps compared to both veno n cleric. Out of my pvp experiences, mystic beats veno n cleric pretty hard.

I'm a level 87 archer and with a +5 FC gold bow I hit a level 82 full AA -chan ornament mystic in salvation shield for 45s b:angry

OFC then I oneshot him the moment it wears off

EDIT: DDs like archers are even less wanted...so form your own?

Besides veno nova on bigroom pull is

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In pve... cleric gets squads... mystic get squads... veno get the bottom the barrel. less important role = less wanted.

Depend for which instance. Clerics are still kinda wanted in all instances (not absolutely needed, but they are wanted). For nirvana and caster nirvana venos was asked for the squad, but now there's not anymore nirvana so ...

Depend of the squad, some people will take veno for amp for some instances, some squad will take mystic as healer or as AOE DD for some instance. Than again I think it depend on server.

On HL a mystic will be take over a veno for GV while on HT I heard people HATE mystics in GV.

Sometime mystics look bad cause of other people not knowing how to play their class. Example: on HT I've been told mystics will never use gale force cause that silent the mobs and people complain mobs run everywhere and call the mystic fail, well beside blame the mystic for make the mobs run, why they don't blame the stupid fists BM that don't stun and DG?

I've never been call nob in a GV on HL when I use GF, cause our BM know that need to stun and DG, anyway: stun, DG, lucky+GF= dead mobs in 1.5 second. I even been told sometime to stop DD cause other people was bored cause I was getting mobs dead too fast. xD

tweakz

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In pve... cleric gets squads... mystic get squads... veno get the bottom the barrel. less important role = less wanted.

My +12 G16 mystic was passed up tonight in favor of a veno or seeker for a wave 5 run. I just lol'd to myself. Tonight I ran clericless wave 3 smoother than I could with same equips on cleric and with far less pots. My veno almost always gets in squad. Cleric actually has hard time getting an RB squad (maybe because they can alt box as cleric).

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

after i read all the comment. i find it funny how people try to talk bad about other class compare than their own x.x

akosireann

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In pve... cleric gets squads... mystic get squads... veno get the bottom the barrel. less important role = less wanted.

This may be true if your server ain't as aps crazy as RT.

On my toons it's the myst that is actually most pathetic getting or starting a squad. My veno are almost always welcome unless squad is full or they have another veno.

Joe - Momaganon

Like I stated before, most of you guys compare the classes due to their own PvP experience, which lacks equallity of the classes. That way you can't compare anything. To really be able to compare classes they need to have the exact same gears and ofc genies that fit their class the best. When the heck do you ppl had such equal PvP matches? Though comparing the classes that way is highly theoretically, it's the only legit way.

Besides that, all Pros and Cons of one class lies within the gear advantage of one.

If you break it down to the use of each class for strategy and stuff then Mystic still falls behind clerics and venos. Purging is by far the most devestating thing that can happen to you in NW or TW. I always get the chromatic seal from a random Cleric when I got the flag in NW, thus giving the opponents the opportunity to gather and attack me with the whole group and thus often ends up deadly for me. So what can a Mystic do? Stun me for a few seconds....maybe another 8 seconds with thicket and push me back once in that time (if the myst got enough chi for that ofc)...this isn't going to stop nor is that going to kill me.

I fear Clerics and Venos far more then Mystics, just because they don't have any kind of group playing advantage or dmg amplification (cept mag attack which is lame) nor any debuffs. Don't forget that their overall Skill-DMG is redicolously low compared to other classes.

But still it depends on your own way of playing. A good Mystic-player will still own clerics, Venos and so on if they are just noobs and vice versa.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

On HL a mystic will be take over a veno for GV while on HT I heard people HATE mystics in GV.

I am on HT... so speaking from first hand experience... I couldn't give a rat's *** regarding a veno or mystic... first come first invite. Although anyone with a brain will tell you that mystic is more useful in rb then veno.

akosireann wrote: »

This may be true if your server ain't as aps crazy as RT.

On my toons it's the myst that is actually most pathetic getting or starting a squad. My veno are almost always welcome unless squad is full or they have another veno.

RT needs a veno to amp what... tt... sot... aba? There really isn't much left for an aps pve squad. I can **** out more profit by afk'ing then the average tt squad... and an veno amp/purge here and there isn't going to make any notable difference when I tank sot/aba.

Sien - Heavens Tear

All I have to say is check the PvP Ranking for Jasriana.

akosireann

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

RT needs a veno to amp what... tt... sot... aba? There really isn't much left for an aps pve squad. I can **** out more profit by afk'ing then the average tt squad... and an veno amp/purge here and there isn't going to make any notable difference when I tank sot/aba.

Much to my displeasure though, except for Full warsong and delta, nearly all squads being built still revolves around spark, hf, amp then derpapsing. I still don't exactly know why these toons need clerics and barbs in wc when they roflstomp everything after buffs.

But one thing is for sure, after the fall of caster nirv mysts are having it rough getting and building squads here in RT unless you have a squad of friends willing to take or join you. (Sadly this option just makes me feel like a panhandler)

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

akosireann wrote: »

Much to my displeasure though, except for Full warsong and delta, nearly all squads being built still revolves around spark, hf, amp then derpapsing. I still don't exactly know why these toons need clerics and barbs in wc when they roflstomp everything after buffs.

But one thing is for sure, after the fall of caster nirv mysts are having it rough getting and building squads here in RT unless you have a squad of friends willing to take or join you. (Sadly this option just makes me feel like a panhandler)

I actually need to ask this... take out warsong and rb. What other instance is worth running (in hopes i am missing something). Only thing comes to mind is lunar... having a 102 veno and 100 mystic... i would much prefer the mystic in my lunar.

akosireann

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I actually need to ask this... take out warsong and rb. What other instance is worth running (in hopes i am missing something). Only thing comes to mind is lunar... having a 102 veno and 100 mystic... i would much prefer the mystic in my lunar.

TT is still run pretty much here in RT as much as you personally dismissed this instance if I read it right (due to culti and an aps friendly instance).

As I did repeat before and I will tell again server mentality plays a huge role in people choosing which toons go to their squad. It may be that mystics in my server are underperforming (I know a lot of mystics not getting Invigo cause they say it does not benefit aps toonsb:shocked) or aps squads still trying to corner most of the mats market and doing what they do during aps nirvy days. And an incredible number of players are stubborn to any class that they percieve won't benefit their aps playing style.

Though now here in RT a lot of +10 sins are running full warsong aps style (mobless ws as it is known)

shashahah

didnt read any of the previous posts, cos every1 who says anything different than mystic (for pve) is...well...xD

ik ik, veno can amp etc

but
mystic can perma mag debuff, demon mystic even got the same effect as paranova (chance to hf) and wood debuff
i even dare to claim if a mystic does it right she can deal more dmg than a wizard >>IN PVE<< BECAUSE:
storm mistress. as simple as that.
e.g. with no debuffs on a lv150 boss (lets say caster) my r999 mystic hits ~25k unsparked noncrit, mistress ~21k per hit (=~46k at once since they almost hit at the same time)
let a wiz do that, ijs =D

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

Though now here in RT a lot of +10 sins are running full warsong aps style (mobless ws as it is known)

Id like to know how they do warsong without killing mobs sincr bosses will do 50k damage on wmanyone if just one mob is left behind.

As for having a hard time getting squads. Answering a wc looking for "+3" fora bh run i was told: Sorry, we need DDs, when I wrote I was a veno

akosireann

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Id like to know how they do warsong without killing mobs sincr bosses will do 50k damage on wmanyone if just one mob is left behind.

As for having a hard time getting squads. Answering a wc looking for "+3" fora bh run i was told: Sorry, we need DDs, when I wrote I was a veno

If I can recall my last run it's with 3 sins, a dhf aps bm, me as veno and a cleric for heals. They get barb buffs outside. Basically it's like an aps nirv run with spark, hf, amp, mire, ext poison with cleric bb. They did hand out IG's for safety of the squishies.

If I can talk again to ulq maybe he can clarify the whole process again, but all the sins in those run were at least r9 or Nirv s3 +10...

WnbTank - Archosaur

akosireann wrote: »

If I can recall my last run it's with 3 sins, a dhf aps bm, me as veno and a cleric for heals. They get barb buffs outside. Basically it's like an aps nirv run with spark, hf, amp, mire, ext poison with cleric bb. They did hand out IG's for safety of the squishies.

If I can talk again to ulq maybe he can clarify the whole process again, but all the sins in those run were at least r9 or Nirv s3 +10...

They changed the bosses and now they do 1shot anybody who isnt immune to damage. Before that wasnt true, cant really think how much damage they dealt but it was manageable, though barb had to turtle for ppl to set up even then. Least that`s my understanding, got wiped pretty hard when somebody missed mob on pull <.<.

As far as the thread went, I do giggle when people say how they kill R9s. Durr, I rolled R9 wizzie on level 96 archer, granted I baited him under TW turret. That doesnt mean lvl 96 archer in TT90 > R9 wizzard, he simply got outplayed.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Id like to know how they do warsong without killing mobs sincr bosses will do 50k damage on wmanyone if just one mob is left behind.

As for having a hard time getting squads. Answering a wc looking for "+3" fora bh run i was told: Sorry, we need DDs, when I wrote I was a veno

It's simple:

Mazy Step>Ironguard->Spark->BM teleports directly to the pavillion and (hopefully demon)HF's->Boss dead. But it takes VERY strong sins for this, low refines won't get u sht. Also lvl 10 or sage HF might make it fail over demon HF. This can be done with all but earth bosss. And no they cannot actually 1 shot you for 50k. I seen others take boss hits out of IG and they withstood 2-3 hits(the 10k+ HP sins).

Savor - Lost City wrote: »

No I do not. I do know a little about them one mystic on my server always asked me to damage test and what not showing me what the skills do. The one that ignores defense levels is very nice. I don't know anything about their morai skills though. The knockback is annoying. I just don't see anyone dying to mystics in pvp on my server there are some 3rd cast ones too.

Sounds like your server is full of fail mystics then. And K/D ratio means nothing today. A lvl 60 goes into NW and gets more death then kills. Then they go to 100, gear up, and suddenly their kill ratio increases but their death ration from 60 will still always show, so being judged from that shows your a major noob expecting people to respect you from K/D. And I do have PVP experience, I'm not just a PVE'r. From my personal experience, clerics->venos->mystics, in term of tough to take down.

P.S.The 75 votes on the top of this page, proves my personal experience to be true to some extent, seeing as the person was not asking specifically which is better at pvp, but still.

Kniraven - Lost City

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's simple:

Mazy Step>Ironguard->Spark->BM teleports directly to the pavillion and (hopefully demon)HF's->Boss dead. But it takes VERY strong sins for this, low refines won't get u sht. Also lvl 10 or sage HF might make it fail over demon HF. This can be done with all but earth bosss. And no they cannot actually 1 shot you for 50k. I seen others take boss hits out of IG and they withstood 2-3 hits(the 10k+ HP sins).



Sounds like your server is full of fail mystics then. And K/D ratio means nothing today. A lvl 60 goes into NW and gets more death then kills. Then they go to 100, gear up, and suddenly their kill ratio increases but their death ration from 60 will still always show, so being judged from that shows your a major noob expecting people to respect you from K/D. And I do have PVP experience, I'm not just a PVE'r. From my personal experience, clerics->venos->mystics, in term of tough to take down.

P.S.The 75 votes on the top of this page, proves my personal experience to be true to some extent, seeing as the person was not asking specifically which is better at pvp, but still.

He didn't state his k/d ratio, i did.
Furthermore, that portion of my post was to establish an argument from authority
(critical thinking/logic basics).

I also stated that no mystic on any server period is even on the first page of the pvp rankings.

Your argument about k/d ratio not being reliable because of other factors is true when comparing individuals, but not the case when given a large enough pool of subjects; like say for example everybody on every server.

P.S. To all players on pve servers. Duels are not pk, and are in no way relevant examples of your pvp ability. They have silly as hell rules and expected protocols, the loss of charm use completely changes the worth of your gems in your gear (deciding if you have enough hp/def yet for jades to overvalue vit/defense stones [mana also being a defensive factor for classes such as EP]), and various skills literally function totally different in duels as opposed to true pk or world pvp.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

He didn't state his k/d ratio, i did.
Furthermore, that portion of my post was to establish an argument from authority
(critical thinking/logic basics).

I also stated that no mystic on any server period is even on the first page of the pvp rankings.

Your argument about k/d ratio not being reliable because of other factors is true when comparing individuals, but not the case when given a large enough pool of subjects; like say for example everybody on every server.

P.S. To all players on pve servers. Duels are not pk, and are in no way relevant examples of your pvp ability. They have silly as hell rules and expected protocols, the loss of charm use completely changes the worth of your gems in your gear (deciding if you have enough hp/def yet for jades to overvalue vit/defense stones [mana also being a defensive factor for classes such as EP]), and various skills literally function totally different in duels as opposed to true pk or world pvp.

I was referring to PVP experience via TW, on a PVE server. Months/years worth of TW gives you good PVP skills. I never said duels, I know those don't count for anything pvp-wise, but a simple 1 on 1 "who's better if both people are aware of each other fighting?" vs "Surprise attack from a player while killing monsters or free roam zone".

Kniraven - Lost City

PvE servers have some weird ideals about PvP servers... You should make a character on one and look around. Anyway, I can't speak for best Dps between the three casters however I can say definitively that Venomancers have the greatest pvp potential of these three classes.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

PvE servers have some weird ideals about PvP servers... You should make a character on one and look around. Anyway, I can't speak for best Dps between the three casters however I can say definitively that Venomancers have the greatest pvp potential of these three classes.

So far we`ve seen one veno with laughable combo telling how venos are best. The combo is laughable, chances of proccing everything necessary are simply stupid low. Not to mention, need to get in melee range, thus any caster with experience on venos should be keeping their distance. It`s one thing to wait for purge bow to proc before moving in and trying a 3 skill combo, with obvious flaws, with similar odds of proccing.

I have "average" geared sin that I use for TW/NW/Farming, wifey calls it OP but I dont think anything with +7 armors is OP. I find mystics harderst of those to kill. Venos got bramble and pet stun but that`s bout it. Unlike psy seal, it`s possible to go trough bramble w/o popping immunities. Granted it requires outgearing opponent and having decent refines on armor. But with mystic, it`s fairly annoying to try kill them unless you outgear them by fair extent.

Biggest thing though is how veno bramble, cleric buffs, can be gotten from other players. Sure, there are purges, but unless you going against veno harem in mass PK, chances are you might keep your buffs. And mystic`s selfbuffs cant be given to other class, while its small situational advantage over those two classes, it still exists.

But yes, I love veno on my side in PK but the role is pretty far from damaging. While it might not be that important in PK abilities, it`s what was asked. Out of those options, mystic feels like it hits the hardest and with biggest DD role. None of the classes are straightforward DDs but mystics seem to have biggest role on it.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

PvE servers have some weird ideals about PvP servers... You should make a character on one and look around. Anyway, I can't speak for best Dps between the three casters however I can say definitively that Venomancers have the greatest pvp potential of these three classes.

If so then why would 41/77 people vote mystic as the best? Perhaps because venos seeming the most difficult for you, as you may not have faced many mystics, or sucky ones at that, as your cheap afk-killing veno friend has suggested.

Also, he's just obsessed with venos being best because he never tried mystic as he said he has no idea whatsoever about mystic, so shows they have no idea just how lethal mystics can be.

Proof:

Savor - Lost City wrote: »

No I do not. I do know a little about them one mystic on my server always asked me to damage test and what not showing me what the skills do. The one that ignores defense levels is very nice. I don't know anything about their morai skills though. The knockback is annoying. I just don't see anyone dying to mystics in pvp on my server there are some 3rd cast ones too.

I'm not trash talking your friend down, I'm simply stating he is mystic-illiterate and has an obsession with venos being "the best" when they are far from it. And they have a very unrealistic (equal to) afk-like killing manner, that will almost never work before he dies and will never work on 1 on 1 fights(not duels, being attacked by someone out of nowhere in PVP, and trying to pull this combo off 1 vs 1, no group pk).

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Venos got bramble and pet stun but that`s bout it. Unlike psy seal, it`s possible to go trough bramble w/o popping immunities. Granted it requires outgearing opponent and having decent refines on armor. But with mystic, it`s fairly annoying to try kill them unless you outgear them by fair extent.

Everything this barb just said I can confirm purely true from personal experience. I eat non-high end-game geared venos through bramble, mystics knock me back if I cannot kill them instantly due to G16/R9 bonuses+O malleys and high refines, and psy seals are the worst, psys>all of these classes.

Savor - Lost City

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not trash talking your friend down, I'm simply stating he is mystic-illiterate and has an obsession with venos being "the best" when they are far from it. And they have a very unrealistic (equal to) afk-like killing manner, that will almost never work before he dies and will never work on 1 on 1 fights(not duels, being attacked by someone out of nowhere in PVP, and trying to pull this combo off 1 vs 1, no group pk

I have actually gotten this combo off a few times it does take some luck getting all the procs. This is not my usual way of killing arcanes but I will throw a stunning blow in there if I see an armor break proc. Generally it is with wood spells obviously. This combo was not a do all kill all combo was just stating in that given situation it would spell death for most arcanes of same gear. As I did state I am not fluent on mystics mostly because I don't see them killing anything, so I don't care.

My bad didn't know he was looking for DD potential. Obviously the correct answer is now Assassin. /thread

PS @ this sin that says he eats venos through bramble.. let's see you do it through blazing barrier or bramble hood without immuning

Kniraven - Lost City

I hate repeating myself but since nobody want's to read through the whole thread I'm just going to include the following information at the end of all my posts here.

The following establishes Savor as a competent Veno on any server:
Kill/Death Ratio of all Venomancers on All Servers

The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

TO Chigenkaiona: Which class people vote for doesn't mean anything at all other than preference.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Id like to know how they do warsong without killing mobs sincr bosses will do 50k damage on wmanyone if just one mob is left behind.

With good enough aps you can kill the boss in the time of ig/domain. If you are a bit slower.. the primary tanker dies and the secondary tanker igs/domain.

Praxalis - Archosaur

Regardless...

A) It has been established that the person you are referencing has been playing veno competently for a year-which is about the duration of the entire mystic class being released. (or round abouts)

K/D ratio is skewed because there are tons of factors that affect it. So unless we have FULL open book records of every single K/D that has happened we can never be sure under what circumstances they are under, etc.

C) We can safely assume based off of numerous posts on the forums that people who held old classes switched over and there are very few new players coming in picking the class. Based off of this assumption- 1) They have some sort of knowledge in the game that extends past a year and a half and 2) they have difference of experience based on their servers, their own personal lives outside of the game, different computers, different reaction times, different IQ's.

D) If we take into account that not everyone is on the SAME playing filed based off of in-game and out of game circumstances, we can safely assume that not only can K/D ratio be skewed based off of in-game climates but outside influences that we have not factored in.


So in all actuality, aside from how K/D ratio is measured we can not rely on K/D ratio to be an accurate representation or thereby be a credible source of data. "SS/fraps or it didn't happen"

See how silly this sounds? This is not a argumentation class and being so formal sounds very weird. But my point still stands-if we are to mesure K/D ratio properly we have to have every single record of how said K/D happened, on what classes, etc. etc. the variables are too wild to make it a clean reference.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I hate repeating myself but since nobody want's to read through the whole thread I'm just going to include the following information at the end of all my posts here.

The following establishes Savor as a competent Veno on any server:
Kill/Death Ratio of all Venomancers on All Servers

The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

TO Chigenkaiona: Which class people vote for doesn't mean anything at all other than preference.

1)

The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic

There is no proof of this anywhere. Your making a false statement. PVP rankings mean absolutely nothing.

2)Again...forget clerics in this whole situation. I started talking about mystics beating venos, not clerics.

3)Most PVP'rs roll sin or archer from what I have notice(depending on the situation, open PVP like west arch-sins, NW-archers, psy, TW-any), mystics seem to be the least popular due to lack of faith in their low amount of skills and using AA.

Live and be happy in your fantasy "venos are the best!" world. No one will ever care for your opinion cause your making a false broad statement based on many factors as Praxalis above me has stated.

Kniraven - Lost City

REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

Praxalis - Archosaur wrote: »

Regardless...

A) It has been established that the person you are referencing has been playing veno competently for a year-which is about the duration of the entire mystic class being released. (or round abouts)
Please explain how that is relevant in any way.

K/D ratio is skewed because there are tons of factors that affect it. So unless we have FULL open book records of every single K/D that has happened we can never be sure under what circumstances they are under, etc.
Again, when comparing individuals yes that is true. However when we are comparing a large enough pool (Here for example, EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO PLAYS PWI) that is not the case. Every class has had equal opportunity to get kills in any which way. The only way for your rebut to be valid would be if you were claiming some sort of major difference between the players who choose the class, like for Example:
All people who play Mystics are honorable and wholesome people and therefore would never RPK. That is why the the PvP statistics are skewed! /Sarcasm.

C) We can safely assume based off of numerous posts on the forums that people who held old classes switched over and there are very few new players coming in picking the class. Based off of this assumption- 1) They have some sort of knowledge in the game that extends past a year and a half and 2) they have difference of experience based on their servers, their own personal lives outside of the game, different computers, different reaction times, different IQ's.
Again I have absolutely no idea what it is you are trying to say here.

D) If we take into account that not everyone is on the SAME playing filed based off of in-game and out of game circumstances, we can safely assume that not only can K/D ratio be skewed based off of in-game climates but outside influences that we have not factored in.
Yea... again what are you trying to say? That some people don't play as much because they have school and work? And that all of those people just happen to be Mystics? And therefore, the ratings are skewed? Or are you saying that Mystics are a better class, but everyone who plays them sucks and therefore class statistics aren't definitive? I am just going to assume you don't get it.

So in all actuality, aside from how K/D ratio is measured we can not rely on K/D ratio to be an accurate representation or thereby be a credible source of data. "SS/fraps or it didn't happen"
I don't have to SS or Fraps. The company recorded the information for me.

See how silly this sounds? This is not a argumentation class and being so formal sounds very weird. But my point still stands-if we are to mesure K/D ratio properly we have to have every single record of how said K/D happened, on what classes, etc. etc. the variables are too wild to make it a clean reference.

If English is your second language I will give you some leeway, otherwise... yeah.. We are done here.

My responses are in red.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1)

There is no proof of this anywhere. Your making a false statement. PVP rankings mean absolutely nothing.
And why is it that PvP statistics mean nothing in regard to pvp?

2)Again...forget clerics in this whole situation. I started talking about mystics beating venos, not clerics.
Well, clearly Mystics don;t beat Venos. Just sort of proved that...

3)Most PVP'rs roll sin or archer from what I have notice(depending on the situation, open PVP like west arch-sins, NW-archers, psy, TW-any), mystics seem to be the least popular due to lack of faith in their low amount of skills and using AA.
This is the closest thing to a point you have made this entire thread. What you are saying is that Mystic is a less popular class, they have a smaller population, and therefore the other classes have an unfair advantage on the stat boards. Good point! =D

However, Mystics don't even reach 1/4 the scores of the other classes. The difference is so great that this point is no longer relevant. What is also interesting is that before you were trying to prove Mystics were better through use of a poll and now you are giving them a handicap for being unpopular. b:chuckle

Live and be happy in your fantasy "venos are the best!" world. No one will ever care for your opinion cause your making a false broad statement based on many factors as Praxalis above me has stated.

You two in particular are not worth debating with, because you don;t know what you are talking about. Kiyoshi should come back and help you guys.

My responses are in Red.

REFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THE THREAD:
The following establishes that Venomancers have better PvP potential than Cleric or Mystic
Kill/Death Ratio of All Classes on All Servers
1.)A Venomancer is within the top ten and the class is featured 3 times on the first page.

2.) No clerics appear at all until half way down the second page.

3.) There is no Mystic on any server period with a high enough Kill/Death ratio to be featured on the all class list. The top mystic is Zoldi of Lothranis Server with a 3.7
Mystic Kill/Death Ratio across All Servers

NOTES:
Link is to German boards because the pvp rankings list isn't broken there like it is on English forum.

I could have used PvP kills instead of Kill/Death but that would have been stupid since Mystics haven't been around as long. It is worth noting though that Venomancers have more kills than Clerics.

MiniST - Sanctuary

I like how when people state that mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, their servers must be full of fail mystics b:chuckle maybe your server is just full of fail venoes b:laugh And here is a combo for venos on AA or melee, just replace arcane antimony with fossilized curse:

0. Myriad Rainbow (if it hit good, if it doesn't w/e, it's instant cast)
1. Lucky Scarab (if miss repeat or badged, goto step 1.5 at that time, step 2 and 3 should switch in order)
1.5 Fox Form
2. Purge (if AD, back to step 1, but they just wasted an AD)
3. Bewitch (Stun should have just wore off, if they HPed away, don't chase, wait for bewitch cooldown by HP in the other direction, lol)
4. Amplify
5. Fox Form
6. Myriad Rainbow (if it hit good, if it doesn't w/e, it's instant cast)
7. Lucky Scarab (if miss, badged, just goto step 8 because they should be purged and amped or they couldn't have used badge since it's still on cooldown)
8. Ironwood Scarab
9. Arcane Antimony

This is an extremely easy combo since lucky scarab is 4 sec stun with 12 second cooldown at 95% proc rate. Also, this is for killing OP AA, otherwise, I just lucky, ironwood, and arcane antimony. If they use things like AD/fortify + IG, HP away or counter by using same thing. Do to reaction times and skill channelling, casters won't be able to do anything if they badged at step 1 unless they can instant cast a seal/stun. This is not perfect, but it's better than all the **** the mystic supporters have spouted in this thread, lol

And Chigenkaiona, guess g16/r9 with high refines doesn't constitute high end game for you. And how are mystics knocking you back, when they should be stunned b:shocked pretty sure 5/6 secs doesn't equal instantly... And even when they do push, you can teleport right back stunned or sleep them before they can do another skill...

Kniraven - Lost City

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like how when people state that mystics are not as good in pvp as veno, their servers must be full of fail mystics b:chuckle maybe your server is just full of fail venoes

You're an idiot. The post right before yours proves Venos do better than Mystics in pvp on every single server.

MiniST - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You're an idiot. The post right before yours proves Venos do better than Mystics in pvp on every single server.

you are the idiot, read again...