Main Discussion about NW pricing and effect on game

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

kamet wrote: »

nods

Im just saying overall (packs was used to get your mind thinking) .. The more areas there are to "spend" the less 1 individual area gets harmed.

D.orbs (1* = 1tok) (2* = 4tok)(3*= 10tok) etc etc

as you stated, gems as well .. all tiers (great for those bumping up and using the rune crafting)


start adding in enough things and 1 individual area (raps/cannies) doesnt get over impacted and it balances out a bit better.

I personally merch D.orbs and pack items as well as tokens from packs. This wont bother me any as I know with a multitude of choices for rewards there will be far far less impact on any 1 particular area.

NO matter how you break it down, some area directly impacts gold sales... Doing this lessens the impact of any one area to the players of the game.

I wouldn't worry about it. Right now the profit from selling uncs/raps on Sanc is around 100m per person per NW. Coins are not being generated at that rate so there is no way that's the steady-state price, eventually the coin supply at that demand level will be exhausted. It shouldn't be too long until uncs/raps have dropped enough to make other options at the forge attractive (gear upgrades and warsoul mats).

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver

Well yeah, I don't understand why people are buying them at these prices. I geuss have a couple week head start is so important they will pay a premium price lol.

Once some of the lower levels.poor,undergeared get thier situation better they will probably start saving for warsoul weapons too. The new non cash shopper gear should be full nirvana 3 armor with an upgraded warsoul weapon. Nirvana 3 weapons are not better for the most part.

Still incase pack opening sufferes and less gems make it into the game- I fully support hte idea of putting high grade gems available in the game somehow.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

Just wanted to sum up my thoughts on why I don't PvP:

"A game should be like a chess board: Each player have the same pieces, the same power, all its left its skills"

I don't PvP in this game because the outcome of a fight its for 80% decided by how expensive your gear is,99% if the gap in terms of power its large(Which is very common in this game).

I won't PvP until my Cleric with a G16+10 Wand won't be outdamaged by my G13+10 Sin@4 attack speed.

I won't PvP until its given to everyone a fair chance to get the only "true" endgame gear(R9r3),and not only the heavy cash shoppers.

I won't PvP until my Cleric needs to +10 her ornaments to have a decent p.def while my Sin with +5 ornaments have a very good balanced p.def / m.def.

I won't PvP until they nerf Sins at least for PvP, and nerf aps at least for PvE.

I won't PvP until Hp/Mp charms are affordable even for a free to play player that doesn't merchant or farm non-stop like a nerd (charms gives an huge advantage in PvP but are kinda costly for the average player).

I gladly PvP on some online strategic games (*cough* Star.craft *cough*),where all the money in this world won't give you any advantage.

Cash shopping should be for the players that doesn't want to farm like nerds and gets their stuff with ease, NOT to give em an enormous boost in terms of power that can't be matched by a F2P player unless you're a a (very) successful merchant.

Even If I would PvP,this **** event's timing its just stupid, it should have been in 2 turns of so I don't have to wake up at 5 am to join,would rather join the turn at 5 pm.

This new expansion brings nothing but a bitter taste for all the months spent in farming Nirvana.

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just wanted to sum up my thoughts on why I don't PvP:

"A game should be like a chess board: Each player have the same pieces, the same power, all its left its skills"

I don't PvP in this game because the outcome of a fight its for 80% decided by how expensive your gear is,99% if the gap in terms of power its large(Which is very common in this game).

I won't PvP until my Cleric with a G16+10 Wand won't be outdamaged by my G13+10 Sin@4 attack speed.

I won't PvP until its given to everyone a fair chance to get the only "true" endgame gear(R9r3),and not only the heavy cash shoppers.

I won't PvP until my Cleric needs to +10 her ornaments to have a decent p.def while my Sin with +5 ornaments have a very good balanced p.def / m.def.

I won't PvP until they nerf Sins at least for PvP, and nerf aps at least for PvE.

I won't PvP until Hp/Mp charms are affordable even for a free to play player that doesn't merchant or farm non-stop like a nerd (charms gives an huge advantage in PvP but are kinda costly for the average player).

I gladly PvP on some online strategic games (*cough* Star.craft *cough*),where all the money in this world won't give you any advantage.

Cash shopping should be for the players that doesn't want to farm like nerds and gets their stuff with ease, NOT to give em an enormous boost in terms of power that can't be matched by a F2P player unless you're a a (very) successful merchant.

This new expansion brings nothing but a bitter taste for all the months spent in farming Nirvana.

there's a few things that's wrong with your comment.

how do you expect to be equal terms with those who pay to play the game? while im not a heavy cashoper I do agree that if you have the money to put into the game instead of the time there's nothing wrong with paying for gear. skill to play is a different matter.

and sins have LA armors while cleric use AA. if you want more p def then give your cleric LA armor. sins can get 1 shot by a cleric that's not even +10. there are defensive meassure for a cleric to survive such as plume shell, pots, charm, genie tons and tons of ways.

I also was a nirvana farmer in caster nv. I dont see a lost. I got more can/rap doing 1 NW than I did a whole week of nv.

you sounds like you are just QQ ing for the sake of QQ. if you wont pvp then dont.

edit: it does sucks that not alot of peeps nv anymore but there are still peeps that does nv.

Burnout - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. Right now the profit from selling uncs/raps on Sanc is around 100m per person per NW. Coins are not being generated at that rate so there is no way that's the steady-state price, eventually the coin supply at that demand level will be exhausted. It shouldn't be too long until uncs/raps have dropped enough to make other options at the forge attractive (gear upgrades and warsoul mats).

To add to that, I know a lot of people who are hoarding supply tokens/raps to save up for their own nirv/r9 recast gears. Once those gears are done, there really isn't much use for supply tokens anymore besides some "power gamer" stuff (and really some of the upgrades are almost sidegrades, like the recasted matchless wings which loses 100 p. def and 4% red. phy. def), and , so in a couple months the market is going to be flooded with supply tokens. There's no "supply token sink" basically, unless I missed some other option besides the new buff items.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there's a few things that's wrong with your comment.

how do you expect to be equal terms with those who pay to play the game? while im not a heavy cashoper I do agree that if you have the money to put into the game instead of the time there's nothing wrong with paying for gear. skill to play is a different matter.

and sins have LA armors while cleric use AA. if you want more p def then give your cleric LA armor. sins can get 1 shot by a cleric that's not even +10. there are defensive meassure for a cleric to survive such as plume shell, pots, charm, genie tons and tons of ways.

I also was a nirvana farmer in caster nv. I dont see a lost. I got more can/rap doing 1 NW than I did a whole week of nv.

you sounds like you are just QQ ing for the sake of QQ. if you wont pvp then dont.

edit: it does sucks that not alot of peeps nv anymore but there are still peeps that does nv.

First - You should read well this paragraph you quoted:

"Cash shopping should be for the players that doesn't want to farm like nerds and gets their stuff with ease, NOT to give em an enormous boost in terms of power that can't be matched by a F2P player unless you're a a (very) successful merchant."

Do I need to explain the above?, its ok getting on pairs to someone who farm like a nerd to get cool gears by cash shopping, its unfair if cash shopping gives you a tremendous advantage over someone who works really hard to be "decent".

Second - LA Armor on Cleric? I won't even explain this one because its so **facepalming** that I don't even ! b:sweat
(Like telling a Seeker to go AA to get more mag.def b:embarrass)

kamet

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. Right now the profit from selling uncs/raps on Sanc is around 100m per person per NW. Coins are not being generated at that rate so there is no way that's the steady-state price, eventually the coin supply at that demand level will be exhausted. It shouldn't be too long until uncs/raps have dropped enough to make other options at the forge attractive (gear upgrades and warsoul mats).

Nirv mat costs isnt the part that actually worries me. The part that has me worried is the Dev team making a reactionary change to NW rewards to appease the nirvana crowd which could have a reverse spiral.

Im just stating that I hope they think of Positive solutions instead of a brainless "fix" which we have seen in the past.

Balancing (if needed) can be done directly through those forges as "token sinks" and "marketable item spreading"

IF the devs are not planing on changing anything.. then I fully agree w/ you atm that its just an initial flux that will work itself out.

Thanks for the feedback

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

First - You should read well this paragraph you quoted:

"Cash shopping should be for the players that doesn't want to farm like nerds and gets their stuff with ease, NOT to give em an enormous boost in terms of power that can't be matched by a F2P player unless you're a a (very) successful merchant."

Do I need to explain the above?, its ok getting on pairs to someone who farm like a nerd to get cool gears by cash shopping, its unfair if cash shopping gives you a tremendous advantage over someone who works really hard to be "decent".

Second - LA Armor on Cleric? I won't even explain this one because its so **facepalming** that I don't even ! b:sweat
(Like telling a Seeker to go AA to get more mag.def b:embarrass)

1st off, lets not delude ourselves, If you are playing an MMO, you are a nerd, reguardless of how much money you spend doing so.

second, what are you crying about with sins having better p.def then clerics? their suited armor has more p.def, so they have more p.def when wearing it, wth are you talking about?

you dont pvp anyway, so why bother arguing? do you think you are going to argue someone else on the forum into making endgame pvp less cash shop oriented? or are you just trying to get more people to sit at your crybaby table with you.

and stop yelling at pho b:angry

Maelael - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just wanted to sum up my thoughts on why I don't PvP:

"A game should be like a chess board: Each player have the same pieces, the same power, all its left its skills"

I don't PvP in this game because the outcome of a fight its for 80% decided by how expensive your gear is,99% if the gap in terms of power its large(Which is very common in this game).

I won't PvP until my Cleric with a G16+10 Wand won't be outdamaged by my G13+10 Sin@4 attack speed.

I won't PvP until its given to everyone a fair chance to get the only "true" endgame gear(R9r3),and not only the heavy cash shoppers.

I won't PvP until my Cleric needs to +10 her ornaments to have a decent p.def while my Sin with +5 ornaments have a very good balanced p.def / m.def.

I won't PvP until they nerf Sins at least for PvP, and nerf aps at least for PvE.

I won't PvP until Hp/Mp charms are affordable even for a free to play player that doesn't merchant or farm non-stop like a nerd (charms gives an huge advantage in PvP but are kinda costly for the average player).

I gladly PvP on some online strategic games (*cough* Star.craft *cough*),where all the money in this world won't give you any advantage.

Cash shopping should be for the players that doesn't want to farm like nerds and gets their stuff with ease, NOT to give em an enormous boost in terms of power that can't be matched by a F2P player unless you're a a (very) successful merchant.

Even If I would PvP,this **** event's timing its just stupid, it should have been in 2 turns of so I don't have to wake up at 5 am to join,would rather join the turn at 5 pm.

This new expansion brings nothing but a bitter taste for all the months spent in farming Nirvana.

Your percentages are wrong. It's 95% numbers. If the numbers are even, then I'd give you 75% gear 25% skill/classes - but only because the gear difference is so large...for now. Realize you're QQing at something that gives you the chance to close that gear gap quite well, making it more 25% gear and 75% skill/classes once more/everyone gets a chance at N3.

Overall, sins were terrible in NW. Skilled players did fine, and made about as much points as an average other class, save the tankier BMs and Barbs. Most of the sins I encountered (and BMs...) just killed themselves on Bramble most of the time. You know what killed me? Archers, and Wizzies/Psys. Mostly from my faction too...

If you're having problems with your cleric - it's your playstyle and the people you're working with, not your gear. A friend of mine with worse gear than you described got 150 something tokens, and another with similar gear got 200. The two clerics, mystic and the veno who was there half the time with me got almost just as many points as I did and weren't constantly harassed/dead. They didn't have R9 or full N3 either, nor were even +10. Know what class has the top kills on HT? A cleric.

I'm not saying you're facerolling your way through NW, but people who expect to faceroll their way through with gear aren't going to place as high. Unless you're a barb pulling flags apparently from what Im hearing.

You're at least close, if not on page with 3 things: Charms are out of hand at 10m each (get event gold), there should be more time options for people, and the absolute middle finger to Nirvana is ****.

But none of that should stop you from NWing if you can make it. Plenty of people made mad profit charmless. Plenty of clerics went and did well. Plenty of them did not have tops gear.

Don't yell at pho.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1st off, lets not delude ourselves, If you are playing an MMO, you are a nerd, reguardless of how much money you spend doing so.

second, what are you crying about with sins having better p.def then clerics? their suited armor has more p.def, so they have more p.def when wearing it, wth are you talking about?

you dont pvp anyway, so why bother arguing? do you think you are going to argue someone else on the forum into making endgame pvp less cash shop oriented? or are you just trying to get more people to sit at your crybaby table with you.

and stop yelling at pho b:angry

So everyone anyone who plays a MMO its a nerd? lmao b:laugh

And go read my post again.....I said that's AA armors are highly unbalanced in terms of P.Defand thus need to rely a lot more on ornaments rather than HA does

Lastly I said why I don't PvP, with your logic,since I don't PvP, I shouldn't even bother telling?

Like why I don't do this ? I can't tell you because I don't even bother to begin with! <-- nonsense

And who the heck is pho anyway O.o

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

So everyone anyone who plays a MMO its a nerd? lmao b:laugh

right

And go read my post again.....I said that's AA armors are highly unbalanced in terms of P.Defand thus need to rely a lot more on ornaments rather than HA does

right

Lastly I said why I don't PvP, with your logic,since I don't PvP, I shouldn't even bother telling?

right

Like why I don't do this ? I can't tell you because I don't even bother to begin with! <-- nonsense

right


*slow clap*

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

You do realize that you aren't making sense right?

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

You do realize that you aren't making sense right?

i thought we were in complete agreement b:surrender

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i thought we were in complete agreement b:surrender

If you agree to me disagreeing you, means what? b:shutup

Accalica - Heavens Tear

You're honestly not bringing much to the discussion of the thread besides trying to make another look bad for others who read it. Get back on track ye?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

"A game should be like a chess board: Each player have the same pieces, the same power, all its left its skills"

Thank you... thank you. With people like you... my job is secured.

sndrzzz

What Accalica (Heavens Tear) said. No need to fill the entire page with the long story.
I lost bills the second after first Nation War ended, and not cash shopped bills, but bills farmed in months while playing constantly. GMs arent giving me those bills and my wasted time (as it seems it was) back. Gms preffered to give free money and gears to low levelled / poor geared players. Soon i will fit among r9 and 3rd recasts ppl "killing me/being more OP" then me with 10% work while i am average geared with 90% work.
I agree, there are players that couldnt afford yet all that OP/pro gears, but ive seen many that in time made it to 3rd recast even if their MAIN was cleric (or another char that doesnt farm as much as some would want to) because caster was a great option. I mostly saw sins QQing, rather then caster players, and why? Because most of them were lazy to hit BP and do at least some TTs, but they were bright red when time to kill someone came.
Time to quit, rather then seeing myself losing more with every Nation War at the door.
These chinese GMs should ask the opinion of a psychologist if they didnt do it before. That modest poll from above explains why.
Oh, and btw, i wonder if C$ing will still supply their wages.

Odinna - Dreamweaver

Improve the nirvana drops...

Selak - Dreamweaver

sndrzzz wrote: »

What Accalica (Heavens Tear) said. No need to fill the entire page with the long story.
I lost bills the second after first Nation War ended, and not cash shopped bills, but bills farmed in months while playing constantly. GMs arent giving me those bills and my wasted time (as it seems it was) back. Gms preffered to give free money and gears to low levelled / poor geared players. Soon i will fit among r9 and 3rd recasts ppl "killing me/being more OP" then me with 10% work while i am average geared with 90% work.
I agree, there are players that couldnt afford yet all that OP/pro gears, but ive seen many that in time made it to 3rd recast even if their MAIN was cleric (or another char that doesnt farm as much as some would want to) because caster was a great option. I mostly saw sins QQing, rather then caster players, and why? Because most of them were lazy to hit BP and do at least some TTs, but they were bright red when time to kill someone came.
Time to quit, rather then seeing myself losing more with every Nation War at the door.
These chinese GMs should ask the opinion of a psychologist if they didnt do it before. That modest poll from above explains why.
Oh, and btw, i wonder if C$ing will still supply their wages.

Once again I agree with everything said here, but after trying to save this game from becoming Just Another Arcade Shooter and seeing how the real greedy lazy players have reacted,
I suggest you guys do what I am going to do, which is give up on trying to make the children understand, until it slaps them in the face with threads about how dead the game is,(once again)
PvP is dead boring in this game,(once again)
the world is empty we need to merge servers,(once again)
At least this debate has put that on hold for about 1-2 months until the returned current bunch of short term memory, highly excitable, easily bored players leave,(once again)

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

^yup this update its more aimed to short-term aim players.

And since I don't see tons of new players joining I guess this gonna be a problem when most short-term ppls will get what they want.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Why not just put everything in the cash shop. Problem solved. Everyone is happy. Players can put in time for grinding DQ for gold. Players can buy gold of cash shop players and vice versa.

Problem solved. Then we can have a fixed price on everything.

Just like its common sense: 1 Perfect Token of Luck = 5 Million coins b:laugh

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Once again I agree with everything said here, but after trying to save this game from becoming Just Another Arcade Shooter and seeing how the real greedy lazy players have reacted,
I suggest you guys do what I am going to do, which is give up on trying to make the children understand, until it slaps them in the face with threads about how dead the game is,(once again)
PvP is dead boring in this game,(once again)
the world is empty we need to merge servers,(once again)
At least this debate has put that on hold for about 1-2 months until the returned current bunch of short term memory, highly excitable, easily bored players leave,(once again)

Said it once. Say it again.

Perfect Tokens of Luck is a 'given'. Everyone knows they are 5 million -- everything in the cash shop. Problem solved.

SpiritDivine - Sanctuary

That is not how it works. Perfect Tokens of Luck are worth 5 million cause you can trade two of them for a 10 mil NPC item. That is why they are worth that amount.

Lots of items in cash shop are solved much much more expensive in the cash shop then by players. Mats like coal and wood are a good example of this. Since their NPC value is much lower then what they are sold for in the cash shop it proves that your system doesnt make any sense.

Accalica - Heavens Tear

Doubt there would be enough gold in motion to cover that suggestion..

What PWI could do however is to just redo and overlook the amount of tokens it takes to make these rewards, thereby making the 2 systems work side by side. It would make the nirvana mats lower their value by a little, and not decrease like 3x their original value, aswell as make other mats easier to obtain for people who cannot attend nirvana/trials. Now THAT imo, would have been a great implement in an expansion..compared to this that leaves many upset/cut out of the market as they cant attend this timezone based instance and therefor will fall behind by alot as these rewards are in such big sums no other farming instance atm can keep u up to par.

The max you should be able to gain in an event like this should be something of maximizing raps at maybe 15-25 (making it somewhat what an 'average' farmer makes per week - don't speak about the people who run this for 8 hours a day...PWI shouldnt make that the norm..) and cannies at somewhere around 3x the amount of raps at best. This should make it able for more people with time issues to gain their gears in some time..without farming and also a complement to people who do but then may feel like they don't have to rush things as much or do it all the time in the same instance.
It shouldnt have to be exchange rates of 3000 cannies or 600 raps as currently some have gained in one war to keep the 'slow' playerbase happy...

If theyre aiming to make s3r9 more available then do so by implementing items that in their turn can create summerwind tokens..

darknessofmy

Next nation war, all rap and canny price going drop. After few week, going worth nothing.

Starr - Harshlands

my friends list is empty. they all quit.... b:cry
</3 update

f31

sndrzzz wrote: »

What Accalica (Heavens Tear) said. No need to fill the entire page with the long story.
I lost bills the second after first Nation War ended, and not cash shopped bills, but bills farmed in months while playing constantly. GMs arent giving me those bills and my wasted time (as it seems it was) back. Gms preffered to give free money and gears to low levelled / poor geared players. Soon i will fit among r9 and 3rd recasts ppl "killing me/being more OP" then me with 10% work while i am average geared with 90% work.
I agree, there are players that couldnt afford yet all that OP/pro gears, but ive seen many that in time made it to 3rd recast even if their MAIN was cleric (or another char that doesnt farm as much as some would want to) because caster was a great option. I mostly saw sins QQing, rather then caster players, and why? Because most of them were lazy to hit BP and do at least some TTs, but they were bright red when time to kill someone came.
Time to quit, rather then seeing myself losing more with every Nation War at the door.
These chinese GMs should ask the opinion of a psychologist if they didnt do it before. That modest poll from above explains why.
Oh, and btw, i wonder if C$ing will still supply their wages.

then u sir own me 2 year of losing money from nv as i am not 5aps wish mean cant farm effectivly or a caster wish mean lie halv a year of incomst.
tho i am g16 +10 str barb.

and if why some miracles the devs see ur ways they should remove caster nv and lower hp of bosses so any class can make profit out of them easy without op gear or aps.

non of these idea suits you huh then do as you 5aps used since you monopolised nv reroll or gtfo.

you can check it out its there somewhere.

its how aps treated us and caster once they hade there gold mine for themself.

mangomanau1

So NW ruins nirv? Thats alright my barb only has 650+ keys like anyone cares about barbs unless its for their benefit....

condo2009

What I see here is almost every comment being made by a level 100+. Lets stop and think about how any one starting this game from scratch today will EVER get to level 100 without a previous character to feed it money for skills other than a credit card. Without new players coming in, this game cannot survive. Maybe for every 3 that quit, 2 might join, 1 will never stay. Player base is shrinking at such a high level (see 3rd quarter results and 4th quarter estimates). A player who quits PWI will NOT play another pwrd game for the reason they quit here. So cash is gone permanently. Chinese version base has lost 50% over the past 2 years and this IS a Chinese game, not pwi international. When China pulls the plug because they have no player base there, this game is pulled at the same time. So in a few weeks 80% of us will be r9r3. Next update will be rank 10. Get your credit cards out now because once rank 10 hits and you spend your money it's dead.

X_Skye_X - Raging Tide

condo2009 wrote: »

What I see here is almost every comment being made by a level 100+. Lets stop and think about how any one starting this game from scratch today will EVER get to level 100 without a previous character to feed it money for skills other than a credit card. Without new players coming in, this game cannot survive. Maybe for every 3 that quit, 2 might join, 1 will never stay. Player base is shrinking at such a high level (see 3rd quarter results and 4th quarter estimates). A player who quits PWI will NOT play another pwrd game for the reason they quit here. So cash is gone permanently. Chinese version base has lost 50% over the past 2 years and this IS a Chinese game, not pwi international. When China pulls the plug because they have no player base there, this game is pulled at the same time. So in a few weeks 80% of us will be r9r3. Next update will be rank 10. Get your credit cards out now because once rank 10 hits and you spend your money it's dead.

So true ....... b:cry agreed with you completely !