Main Discussion about NW pricing and effect on game

Accalica - Heavens Tear

Honestly, I'll laugh at the s3 nirvana when they get facerolled by the transfered +12 fully sharded and refined s3r9s. Why? Because you people act as if farming ONE r8 is even comparable to farming your own r9 set with belonging refines and shards.

As Empu stated, refs and shards are what makes the difference..and with every little
'I got my shiet for free' that is popping out of the ground, the refines and shards will surely rise in price. Where do those 'i got this for free, now what?' people go to farm for their equalness? BH/mirages/81 dq? Ya, make me laugh some more, please.

I got my shiet covered, I can get s3r9 with these prices and I got funds enough to
polish it up aswell - questions is, do all the nirvana s3's? Judging by the ones trying to argue that getting free stuff is good, they barely have time to play the game. So have fun getting one shot like before, and hey...have fun doing you 2min instances too! I guess you can 'play' the game now eh? No more time needed for anything! xD

Zanir - Lothranis

Channman - Lost City wrote: »

well true on that, any news on those btw like i said i remember some GMS were planing on taking to the devs about it and seeing if we can't get it back. Hopefully its just an error or mistake

Hopefully the whole thing is a mistake (Supply Token rewards included) and they actually do something to fix it.

I can't believe anyone from PWE (being a business and all) couldn't see the negative implications of making everyone clones by injecting so many (previously somewhat rare) items into the game. People continue to play games to achieve goals, when things become too easy people slowly lose interest and will leave. So while some might be elated to finally get that "OP" gear, they're going to lose interest fairly quickly once there's nothing else to aim for.

princece

go go go farm herbs!

AliceAdams - Lost City

I actually think gold prices will double or triple.

Why?

I just made 23mil off of 68 supply tokens. 68. Fiance got over 100, and I'm sure when he gets home from work he'll make nearly twice what I just made.

They effectively just flooded the market with coins. As coins become MORE available, and gold availability either decreases or stays the same, gold will become more expensive. Also, with expensive items becoming cheaper, people won't have to spend as much coin, and will be more willing to buy gold with it for fun.

I think PWI just ran themselves into the ground.b:sad

Empu - Sanctuary

Zanir - Lothranis wrote: »

I can't believe anyone from PWE (being a business and all) couldn't see the negative implications of making everyone clones by injecting so many (previously somewhat rare) items into the game. People continue to play games to achieve goals, when things become too easy people slowly lose interest and will leave. So while some might be elated to finally get that "OP" gear, they're going to lose interest fairly quickly once there's nothing else to aim for.

Not to mention all pve content already being massively under the level of the former average gear (r8/tt99 +5 with immacs).

Zanir - Lothranis

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

I actually think gold prices will double or triple.

Why?

I just made 23mil off of 68 supply tokens. 68. Fiance got over 100, and I'm sure when he gets home from work he'll make nearly twice what I just made.

They effectively just flooded the market with coins. As coins become MORE available, and gold availability either decreases or stays the same, gold will become more expensive. Also, with expensive items becoming cheaper, people won't have to spend as much coin, and will be more willing to buy gold with it for fun.

I think PWI just ran themselves into the ground.b:sad

You're not the only one, it's only a matter of time before the kiddies who are excited for their free goodie bags get bored with the game due to it being on "easy mode".

Prices for orbs and shards will double or triple (at best) due to the extremely high demand, people won't be able to (or won't want to) farm or CS enough to cover the costs and they'll slowly leave for other avenues of entertainment.

Channman - Lost City

Zanir - Lothranis wrote: »

You're not the only one, it's only a matter of time before the kiddies who are excited for their free goodie bags get bored with the game due to it being on "easy mode".

Prices for orbs and shards will double or triple (at best) due to the extremely high demand, people won't be able to (or won't want to) farm or CS enough to cover the costs and they'll slowly leave for other avenues of entertainment.

zZzZzZzZzZ game lasted thur morai, sins, r9 and other things people were unhappy about and people cried it will kill the game.

Zanir - Lothranis

Channman - Lost City wrote: »

zZzZzZzZzZ game lasted thur morai, sins, r9 and other things people were unhappy about and people cried it will kill the game.

And none of those things force fed drops that were only available from certain aspects of the game to players in massive quantities. Nation Wars is and it was a poorly thought out reward system.

Accalica - Heavens Tear

It starts at 80 with upgraded warsouls...come on? That should open your eyes enough. Anyone who can't see the irony in this upgrade must need...idk...do u even play? Do you think anything will be fun with those kind of weapons everywhere in these already easy instances?b:surrender

Sure you're happy now in your new shiny s3...but newsflash, everyones got it. It's like starter gear.
Goals? Ha, yea...soon we'll get the basic warsong necky/belts for free too so no need to start
even thinking about farming it as a goal, and the basic def of the new gears alone will sustain any PVE player and more. Goals and pwi nolonger match in the same sentence.

AliceAdams - Lost City

Actually I can see a LOT of prices going up. There are still too many variables, and this is still too new for me to have an accurate theory. But....

Assume that Uncanny Crystals continue at 100k each.
And Raptures at 350k each.

If these prices stay like this, then:

Gold will be approximately 3mil each.
Skill book prices will double or triple, because
Token prices will double or triple.

So, figuring a skill book takes 450 tokens for pages @12,500 each, one book was 5.6mil.
If tokens go up to 25,000 then books will go up to 11mil.

If gold prices double, everything doubles.

fak2000

And how can someone become good caster? Selling herbs for 500 coins and DQ items for 1 coin?

Valirah - Sanctuary

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

I actually think gold prices will double or triple.

Why?

I just made 23mil off of 68 supply tokens. 68. Fiance got over 100, and I'm sure when he gets home from work he'll make nearly twice what I just made.

They effectively just flooded the market with coins. As coins become MORE available, and gold availability either decreases or stays the same, gold will become more expensive. Also, with expensive items becoming cheaper, people won't have to spend as much coin, and will be more willing to buy gold with it for fun.

-.-

NO NEW COINS WERE MADE FROM NATION WARS.

That 23m you made came from other players, the total coin in circulation did not change. Gold prices will have very little effect from NW.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

People should just learn to adapt. Drastic changes have happened in the past, and so far everyone that still plays has adapted already.

RoseWater_ - Sanctuary

Accalica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Honestly, I'll laugh at the s3 nirvana when they get facerolled by the transfered +12 fully sharded and refined s3r9s. Why? Because you people act as if farming ONE r8 is even comparable to farming your own r9 set with belonging refines and shards.

As Empu stated, refs and shards are what makes the difference..and with every little
'I got my shiet for free' that is popping out of the ground, the refines and shards will surely rise in price. Where do those 'i got this for free, now what?' people go to farm for their equalness? BH/mirages/81 dq? Ya, make me laugh some more, please.

I got my shiet covered, I can get s3r9 with these prices and I got funds enough to
polish it up aswell - questions is, do all the nirvana s3's? Judging by the ones trying to argue that getting free stuff is good, they barely have time to play the game. So have fun getting one shot like before, and hey...have fun doing you 2min instances too! I guess you can 'play' the game now eh? No more time needed for anything! xD

Its not about the free stuff, Its not about being lazy, its about getting a decent chance like everyone else who doesnt cash shop (not saying you do or anything) or have time to farm endlessly all day every day and its not free /o/ I had to face countless r9 folk trying and succeeding mostly in whooping my in my little nubby r8/nirvana bum in NW to get what tokens I got, might only be two hrs a week but I still personally have my work cut out for me

Accalica - Heavens Tear

I give up. Have fun playing in FF with upgraded warsoul weps.
Anyone who can't notice that sentence belongs to a private server, needs to replay the game imo. My friends have quit, my spouse is about to, once he does I am too. It was a good run PWI, thanks for giving me some fun in the early days b:surrender Inb4 dont let the door kick ya on the way out, I believe the game was empty on players before..now? It'll be even worse for those staying as many are chosing to leave it behind. I genuinly feel for those losing a good chunck out of their factions players and friends.

akosireann

it's things like this that make me happy not plunking RL cash in a game

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Zanir - Lothranis wrote: »

While it's similar to what happened with R8, at that point they didn't completely remove an instance from the game. They also made you buy it (one way or another) still, where as with Nation Wars you can basically go in on a lvl 60 alt with **** gear and STILL get tokens and thus Nirvana drops/recast mats for free essentially.

So there is quite a bit of a difference here...

This is a different argument, as it no longer is about effort or loss of item value but that EVERYONE can get it. And apparently you'd rather have most of the population locked out of endgame PvE content because they can't link a weapon or out of PvP entirely because apparently it's only fun if you have an overwhelming advantage. Seriously, this is what you're ranting against, not that you were hurt by this (whatever losses many may have endured, their endgame goals all became easier to accomplish in return) but that others benefitted. And rather than welcome the opportunity of a playing field with more and better geared allies and rivals you bemoan that you no longer get to take advantage of others, whether its PvP, selling instances, profitting from mats you don't actually need, etc. But hey, you want MOAR, right? One of every toon in fully +10'd covered in JOSD while your average player struggles for R8 or G13...

Zanir - Lothranis

Accalica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It starts at 80 with upgraded warsouls...come on? That should open your eyes enough. Anyone who can't see the irony in this upgrade must need...idk...do u even play? Do you think anything will be fun with those kind of weapons everywhere in these already easy instances?b:surrender

Sure you're happy now in your new shiny s3...but newsflash, everyones got it. It's like starter gear.
Goals? Ha, yea...soon we'll get the basic warsong necky/belts for free too so no need to start
even thinking about farming it as a goal, and the basic def of the new gears alone will sustain any PVE player and more. Goals and pwi nolonger match in the same sentence.

I'm starting to think that it's a losing battle, there are so many people who see so much free stuff and seem to not even care about the consequences that it's like spitting into the wind trying to explain ourselves to them.

I logged on to Loth this morning hoping that our resident CM (who is rather active I might add) was on and chatting but no luck. While there I see yet more people linking their new gear and bragging like it's some huge accomplishment now, others were making a big fuss over "Finally being able to do XXX content" as if a jump from 4.0 to 5.0 APS makes such a huge difference.

Valiance, can we please get a Rollback? lol Nobody wanted to do it for the Goonz, let's at least save what's left of the game. Levels were given away with no regard and lame excuses were thrown around as to why that couldn't be fixed. Please don't do the same thing with this issue as well. People might feel it's a good change because they didn't want to put in all the work to get the gear, but that's how it's supposed to be. If you want it you need to work for it (regardless of if it's spending time sitting at your computer or working a real job and charging zen).

PvE content is too easy as it is even with the revisions to some bosses. Not everyone wants to PvP.

For those that don't want to farm Nirvana let them do Nation Wars. But that can only be effective and fair to the community if you do a rollback, remove the surplus of drops that were just injected into the game (and more coming Sunday) and re-work the way the Token conversion system works. Increase the number of tokens needed, raise the manufacturing fee or do both. But it needs to be comparable to the PvE farming equivalent, some actual effort needs to be put in.

We don't need anymore gear upgrades, what we really need is new, challenging content. Adding in G16 Nirvana gear and the advanced bosses was great, it got people running new instances that were previously almost untouched except for a select few players. We need that again, but we don't need things made easier (especially not this easy).

You want to keep making money then give us more to do, keep us interested, no more re-used instances with paltry rewards that make people not want to run it due to lack of profit. Make a sought after reward that doesn't just hand out stuff that people have already put in tremendous work for.

The addition of a luck crystal with lvl 100+ CS was great, it spiced that up a little. The Nation Wars themselves were great, it's a great alternative to TW. We need more stuff like that, but less childish hand holding. Things are already TOO easy, don't make it even more so.

AliceAdams - Lost City

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

-.-

NO NEW COINS WERE MADE FROM NATION WARS.

That 23m you made came from other players, the total coin in circulation did not change. Gold prices will have very little effect from NW.

Though you are absolutely right that I made MY coins from another player, you're forgetting one important thing.

The NPC value of supply tokens is 9,999. Weren't there people that got 1000 tokens? That's almost 20 mil a week of new coin that can be generated.

Now figure when the "new" wears off and people have their gear, they will just want money to buy gold to buy packs and fashion for fun.

We had 60,000 tokens available for rewards last night. That's almost 600mil npc value for ONE day and this is twice a week. Now there's 1.2bil and everyone wants gold.

Again, this is still too new, and it will take a while for the economy to balance out again.

augustfinknottle

I liked it. It didn't benefit me much (my one R9 toon is already +10/+11 and jaded, so R9 third cast will be expensive for me anyway). But It'll be fun fo have small factions getting competitive with G16/R9 third cast toons.

Also, it's pretty normal that this change pisses a lot of people. Every change does that. When they first introduced the anni packs there was a person (think it was a cleric) in Dreamweaver who had just finished farming the 18k+ wraith spirits to make the OHT helm. She quit. Actually, lots of people quit when they introduced packs, since they made cube necklaces, warsong belts, G14 OHT gear, cloudcharger and high end shards easier.

The second great change, I'd guess, was the introduction of R8 sales, maybe. Lots of people who's paid 20k+ dollars for their R8 saw the gap being closed by people spending just over 100 dollars quit. Price of Illusion stone dropped as people could get a better chestpiece than TT99 along with their weapon better than lunar/TT weapons. People with high refines on their TT90/TT99 quit.

Then they released R9. That actually didn't make many people quit, because R9 wasn't really attainable without cheap chips and rare-as-hell medals of glory. Then they made R9 sales. People with +12 R8 weapons QQed. "They're killing the game", they said.

Now they make R9r/R9rr easily affordable. People QQ again. Because their current market went poof. they're forgetting that R8 sales made lunar weapon prices drop drastically, making many merchants (me included) lose coins on their lunar weapon tokens.

Now they release something that actually screws current markets big time. Well, guess what? Adapt. Or quit. Right now, things are uncertain, but it's likely that TT/Lunar mats will rise in price a bit, since many will be willing to gear their alts now that it's so easy. I also bet on some kind of rise in prices for the rotating cogs, since you can make cube necklace so easily now, people will go for the G16/G16 recast version, and they'll need 270 cogs for that. most people are too lazy to farm them, meaning it'll probably boom.

New wars are also FUN, so, instead of killing boss after boss in nirvana you can do an instance that actually requires a bit of strategy and that changes everytime because it's not against an AI, but against people.

I'm sad cause this was personally bad for me (lost millions worth on cannies/raptures as well), but at the same time I'm happy endgame gear will be more widespread, making for a more competitive TW and the very nation wars too. Maybe even pk will come back to life.

To sum it up: If you got something when it was expensive, you paid for the time you had the upper hand. Exclusivity doesn't last forever. Enjoy while you're still the top.

Laphroaig - Raging Tide

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is a different argument, as it no longer is about effort or loss of item value but that EVERYONE can get it. And apparently you'd rather have most of the population locked out of endgame PvE content because they can't link a weapon or out of PvP entirely because apparently it's only fun if you have an overwhelming advantage. Seriously, this is what you're ranting against, not that you were hurt by this (whatever losses many may have endured, their endgame goals all became easier to accomplish in return) but that others benefitted. And rather than welcome the opportunity of a playing field with more and better geared allies and rivals you bemoan that you no longer get to take advantage of others, whether its PvP, selling instances, profitting from mats you don't actually need, etc. But hey, you want MOAR, right? One of every toon in fully +10'd covered in JOSD while your average player struggles for R8 or G13...

that seems to be the underlying argument on all the QQ threads, though they would never admit it.

Terrastrike - Lost City

Well I give up. I spent months farming my g15 gear, and almost a year farming gear for my sin. That can now be done on a week. PVE is now ruined, every instance can be done in five seconds. PVP is now ruined, as everyone who had r9 will now have third cast. TW is ruined, and NV is rendered worthless. The economy will grind to a halt, because CSrs have no reason to sell their gold anymore. The game is now like a private server, people are buying uncannies in bulks of 3000 at a time. Raptures and Uncannies will replace coin in the economy. If PWI doesn't roll back the server, they've successfully screwed the game. There's no way of coming back from this, people will either leave now, or will leave in about 2 weeks when they're bored as hell. They can't even nerf the rate of tokens, because the people who already did last night's nation war will have an unfair advantage over the rest of the server.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Go ahead and ragequit already. For once PW reaches out to those of us who are neither no lifers nor heavy CSers and THIS (not any of the other stuff that has gone wrong) is what breaks the camel's back for you? I'm a paying customer too, and very regular at that, and I for one couldn't be happier with something that gives not just me, but casuals, f2ps and newbies, a fighting chance. Previous to this my endgame goal was G13 vana and nothing more, perhaps a G16 wep, as I could never afford to go any further in terms of time available to me and my refusal to P2Win.

And did any of you actually realized NW was actually very fun and enjoyable? And not in the sense of surviving running an instance with a random squad, which was as good as the game got for me and many others.

Edit; And LOL at an even playing field ruining PvP, it only sucks for the griefers hiding behind OP gear to gank others...

Nenor - Dreamweaver

I cant say NW affects me in a huge way from either side. I never could get a nirva run as a 5 aps base archer with only 94 str allotted, opening for free, dding for free just for the 99 key quest. I also dont pk/pvp so i will get no cannys/raps from the new nation wars either.

On the + side.. i can now npc the last 2000 keys in my bank and make room. I had npced 1000 last 2x and stopped picking them up long ago. I can also by the can/raps for cheaper than before.

On the - side.. it really burns my bacon that i have no access to the other things offered because i dont pk/pvp. (such as the morai wines that were removed from the npc and put in the forges.)

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Zanir - Lothranis wrote: »

Not everyone wants to PvP.

This is my problem, here. Before this expansion I was happily farming my sin's pants in Caster every day, and though it was work I enjoyed it as a fun PvE instance. Now Nation Wars roll in and who is going to bother with Nirvana anymore? It isn't profitable, and very few people are like me and run it for fun also.

So where are the people who don't PvP left? We are forced to pay. Sure, cannies may only be 80k here on HT now, but I would still much rather farm my pants and pay nothing than pay 20 mil (and be bored). And it isn't just the PvE players that this affects. There are a lot of people that just can't be online at that time of day, for two hours no less.

I get that PWCN is a PvP game, but if there is going to be an instance/event put in that basically gives out a pile of much desired mats for very little work, then they need to find a way to make it accessible to everyone.

Valirah - Sanctuary

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Though you are absolutely right that I made MY coins from another player, you're forgetting one important thing.

The NPC value of supply tokens is 9,999. Weren't there people that got 1000 tokens? That's almost 20 mil a week of new coin that can be generated.

Now figure when the "new" wears off and people have their gear, they will just want money to buy gold to buy packs and fashion for fun.

We had 60,000 tokens available for rewards last night. That's almost 600mil npc value for ONE day and this is twice a week. Now there's 1.2bil and everyone wants gold.

Again, this is still too new, and it will take a while for the economy to balance out again.

No one NPCed their Supply tokens. Anyone one who used them paid fees to do so, from 10k for a Rap to 400k+ for Warsoul mats and more. NW is a coin sink, not a coin generator.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On the - side.. it really burns my bacon that i have no access to the other things offered because i dont pk/pvp. (such as the morai wines that were removed from the npc and put in the forges.)

Just give it a try once man, no xp loss or dropped items, you may actually come to enjoy it. If there was ever something that could attract people who don't PK to PvP this is it.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm a paying customer too, and very regular at that, and I for one couldn't be happier with something that gives not just me, but casuals, f2ps and newbies, a fighting chance.

and how are you[casuals] going to make coins now?

Nenor - Dreamweaver

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just give it a try once man, no xp loss or dropped items, you may actually come to enjoy it. If there was ever something that could attract people who don't PK to PvP this is it.

The game i came from was a pure pvp game. I did enjoy it. I choose not to pvp here because of personal reasons, it just isnt feasible/reasonable for me to be able to do so anymore.

Terrastrike - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Go ahead and ragequit already. For once PW reaches out to those of us who are neither no lifers nor heavy CSers and THIS (not any of the other stuff that has gone wrong) is what breaks the camel's back for you? I'm a paying customer too, and very regular at that, and I for one couldn't be happier with something that gives not just me, but casuals, f2ps and newbies, a fighting chance. Previous to this my endgame goal was G13 vana and nothing more, perhaps a G16 wep, as I could never afford to go any further in terms of time available to me and my refusal to P2Win.

And did any of you actually realized NW was actually very fun and enjoyable? And not in the sense of surviving running an instance with a random squad, which was as good as the game got for me and many others.

Edit; And LOL at an even playing field ruining PvP, it only sucks for the griefers hiding behind OP gear to gank others...

Wait... you think that because you have NV gear you'll be a factor now? All this update does is make PVE extremely easy for everyone, whist still maintaining the ridiculous advantage that CSrs had previously in PVP. R9 players will upgrade to third cast R9. They'll still be able to one shot you, and you won't be able to put a dent on them, especially when you take sharding and refining into account. I also love it when people like you refer to other MMORPG players as 'no lifers', because they have put more effort into the game than you. If you view people who worked to get their endgame gear as no lifers, what gives you the right to have access to that gear now?