pure magic or some vit?

truekossy

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Take two shots, everyone!

Now I'm out of orange juice again.

... If I used alcohol, I'd already be dead.

Eoria - Harshlands

truekossy wrote: »

Now I'm out of orange juice again.

... If I used alcohol, I'd already be dead.

I'm already dead. Forums drinking games aren't good for anyone. b:flower

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

*takes 2 shots* *dies*

Dawnx_ - Harshlands

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Take two shots, everyone!

Can I take 2 shots of coffee? b:avoid

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Dawnx_ - Harshlands wrote: »

Can I take 2 shots of coffee? b:avoid

No take 2 shots of weak heals, i play cleric this weekend. ♥ b:chuckle

Xainou - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

No take 2 shots of weak heals, i play cleric this weekend. ♥ b:chuckle

Bahaha xD *revives everyone*

spootenhiemer

Random thread necro here. Just spent the last half an hour reading this delightful tapestry of clerical love.

At 9x I did a complete stat change from 20 vit to full vit. min magic. I'm lvl 100 now and just went through my TT 3-X culti for fourth map. I tell ya, without all that vit, I would've been one-shotted so many times in that culti.

In a world today where bp heals 10 times more then ANY strength of heals that a cleric can put out (with endgame gear, which from this conversation we're not talking about 8x bh runs) the only thing that clerics are used for nowadays is BB. I honestly wouldn't prefer this, but as someone said up before, dds are sacrificing survivability to get more dps out. If I have to be the BB slave just so they all can survive with their aps gear? Worth it in the end. I'm a support class, and 500 hp of a heal is not going to change the oneshots.

Only things that are tanking nowadays are sins anyways. Let your ePeen shine and tank with some BB. Lets me fap while I watch the bosses hp drop.

A dead cleric heals nothing.

Mor_Toran - Sanctuary

spootenhiemer wrote: »

Random thread necro here. Just spent the last half an hour reading this delightful tapestry of clerical love.

At 9x I did a complete stat change from 20 vit to full vit. min magic. I'm lvl 100 now and just went through my TT 3-X culti for fourth map. I tell ya, without all that vit, I would've been one-shotted so many times in that culti.

In a world today where bp heals 10 times more then ANY strength of heals that a cleric can put out (with endgame gear, which from this conversation we're not talking about 8x bh runs) the only thing that clerics are used for nowadays is BB. I honestly wouldn't prefer this, but as someone said up before, dds are sacrificing survivability to get more dps out. If I have to be the BB slave just so they all can survive with their aps gear? Worth it in the end. I'm a support class, and 500 hp of a heal is not going to change the oneshots.

Only things that are tanking nowadays are sins anyways. Let your ePeen shine and tank with some BB. Lets me fap while I watch the bosses hp drop.

A dead cleric heals nothing.

I was just browsing around and found this. I smell a troll.

Lets do some math...
We'll take a L100 Cleric build with Plain Jane R8. No refines, no shards, no other gear. Just to get a base value here.

20 VIT
HP 2545
MP 9340
Pdef 419
Mdef 5229
MAtt 7062-10010
BB Heal = 2007hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 23437

Pure VIT (156VIT 300 MAG)
HP 3855
MP 7506
Pdef 491
Mdef 5076
MAtt 5371-7613
BB Heal = 1598hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 19349

Pure MAG (3VIT 453MAG)
HP 2325
MP 9648
Pdef 406
Mdef 5255
MAtt 7346-10413
BB Heal = 2075hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 24124

That's a pretty significant nerf to your healing, and to your ability to fight mobs.
So basically, you're alive, but you heal like a wet noodle, and if you need to fight, you might as well be a rock.

Personally, I think there are much easier and better ways of getting 1500 hp than nerfing your toon.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

*Pray that someone close this thread*

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Mor_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was just browsing around and found this. I smell a troll.

Lets do some math...
We'll take a L100 Cleric build with Plain Jane R8. No refines, no shards, no other gear. Just to get a base value here.

20 VIT
HP 2545
MP 9340
Pdef 419
Mdef 5229
MAtt 7062-10010
BB Heal = 2007hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 23437

Pure VIT (156VIT 300 MAG)
HP 3855
MP 7506
Pdef 491
Mdef 5076
MAtt 5371-7613
BB Heal = 1598hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 19349

Pure MAG (3VIT 453MAG)
HP 2325
MP 9648
Pdef 406
Mdef 5255
MAtt 7346-10413
BB Heal = 2075hp every 5 seconds
WT damage = 24124

That's a pretty significant nerf to your healing, and to your ability to fight mobs.
So basically, you're alive, but you heal like a wet noodle, and if you need to fight, you might as well be a rock.

Personally, I think there are much easier and better ways of getting 1500 hp than nerfing your toon.

Nobody who suggests vit would ever suggest pure vit. At least I have never seen anyone suggest that much of it. I have no clue why you would make the lame comparison. The 20 vit comparison was that person's build. It let them survive the aoes and was only giving 68 points of heal less than the pure cleric. 68 hp isn't enough of a difference to recommend restatting to that person.

Decus - Dreamweaver

The only reason I ever need BB on a tanking character is for the damage reduction. BP does the rest

Oliiander - Lost City

I've got alright gear, with decent refines and mostly garnet shards.

I'm pure mag to the extreme, with a base of 5 dex, 3 vit and 49 str. (Terrible, I know.)
I'm almost at 3k hp, depending on gear, I vary from 2.8k hp to 2.99k.

Considering FC boss AoE nearly brings me to my knees without plume shell, I'm saving up for a reset note to restat for a more reliable build. Say, 40-50 vit?

If you're that hung up about your mag, why not get a tome?b:shutup

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

Oliiander - Lost City wrote: »

I've got alright gear, with decent refines and mostly garnet shards.

I'm pure mag to the extreme, with a base of 5 dex, 3 vit and 49 str. (Terrible, I know.)
I'm almost at 3k hp, depending on gear, I vary from 2.8k hp to 2.99k.

Considering FC boss AoE nearly brings me to my knees without plume shell, I'm saving up for a reset note to restat for a more reliable build. Say, 40-50 vit?

If you're that hung up about your mag, why not get a tome?b:shutup

And whats wrong with being hung up with mag? If being pure build is so bad for you then maybe you should 1. Refine more or 2. Restat to vit cause you obviously cant afford pure magic.

I said in this thread before, Pure magic is more expensive than vit, you need high-ish refines on all your gear except your weapon. Vit only needs refines on weapon. Its your preference.

http://pwcalc.com/695c1b6ec3e9dcc8 this is my build, oh look i actually have more survival than most clerics no matter what the build. But guess what, it cost **** loads of coin to get this gear.

Mor_Toran - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nobody who suggests vit would ever suggest pure vit. At least I have never seen anyone suggest that much of it. I have no clue why you would make the lame comparison. The 20 vit comparison was that person's build. It let them survive the aoes and was only giving 68 points of heal less than the pure cleric. 68 hp isn't enough of a difference to recommend restatting to that person.

The below quote was why I had made that rather odd comparison.

spootenhiemer wrote: »

At 9x I did a complete stat change from 20 vit to full vit. min magic. I'm lvl 100 now and just went through my TT 3-X culti for fourth map. I tell ya, without all that vit, I would've been one-shotted so many times in that culti.
...

I fully approve of 20 or 30 points to VIT for survivability if that's your choice. (Although my personal opinion is that it's cheaper/easier to get it through other means with the small amount of hp that clerics get per VIT point.) This guy, however, has gone to an extreme. for the sake of getting an extra 1500hp, he's really nerfed the playability of the class for mere survival.
The things that would have to be done to compensate for it would cost almost double of what it would be to have a pure or hybrid build with decently sharded/refined gear with the same amount of hp/defense as a result. (Personally, you can get better defense with the same hp fairly easily.)

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Mor_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »

The below quote was why I had made that rather odd comparison.

I fully approve of 20 or 30 points to VIT for survivability if that's your choice. (Although my personal opinion is that it's cheaper/easier to get it through other means with the small amount of hp that clerics get per VIT point.) This guy, however, has gone to an extreme. for the sake of getting an extra 1500hp, he's really nerfed the playability of the class for mere survival.
The things that would have to be done to compensate for it would cost almost double of what it would be to have a pure or hybrid build with decently sharded/refined gear with the same amount of hp/defense as a result. (Personally, you can get better defense with the same hp fairly easily.)

I totally missed that, sorry. b:surrender

@Pure vit person.

At some point Vitality stops being a helpful boost to get you past AOEs and starts being a hinderance to well, everyone. As someone who has a bit of vit myself, I can definitely understand why you would want it. But I think you have crossed the line from "a dead cleric heals no one," to "hell, maybe we should just find a different cleric," because that's way too much. You do need to heal and shouldn't solely rely on the damage reduction from BB to make up for it. As a general rule of thumb I usually don't advise anyone to go with more than 30-50 vit because that can easily be made up with weapon refines and by which weapon you take. I'm not one to discourage vit usually but....I think maybe the problem was that your gear just wasn't good enough and maybe you should have worked on that first.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I'm not against vit, but pure vit and minimum magic is a bit heavy, i don't think it's needed at that point.

Ahira - Lost City

Gosh- this thread is still going?

More magic or more vit- you can compensate either way by refining armor/weapon so I hope people dont get the wrong impression that its very restrictive.

End game though I would be full vit because your play moves on to mostly buff/purify/rez/bb duties. The difference in heal strength between full mag and full vit also become more negligible when you're healing char's with very high HP.

Eoria - Harshlands

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

End game though I would be full vit because your play moves on to mostly buff/purify/rez/bb duties. The difference in heal strength between full mag and full vit also become more negligible when you're healing char's with very high HP.

Careful, man. You're touching on PVP when most people in this thread think solely of PVE.

tweakz

Oliiander - Lost City wrote: »

I've got alright gear, with decent refines and mostly garnet shards.

I'm pure mag to the extreme, with a base of 5 dex, 3 vit and 49 str. (Terrible, I know.)
I'm almost at 3k hp, depending on gear, I vary from 2.8k hp to 2.99k.

Nice troll! b:laugh I have alright gear, decent refines and over 6k hp as pure mag to the extreme and no HP shards (pure DoT).

People are suggesting 20 vit is ok? that gets you what? ~220HP? Refine a single G15 from +8 to +10 and you'll have way more than that!

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The only reason I ever need BB on a tanking character is for the damage reduction. BP does the rest

Oh yes! Every cleric has someone like you or better in their squad, and mages never tank! I'm sure you out aoe aggro that wiz with sage DB. As a cleric you never run into a barb tank or the overly common assassin with HP shards decent HP and stupidly low defense.

Decus - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Oh yes! Every cleric has someone like you or better in their squad, and mages never tank! I'm sure you out aoe aggro that wiz with sage DB. As a cleric you never run into a barb tank or the overly common assassin with HP shards decent HP and stupidly low defense.

Lol, what? I think you missed the point of my post. Darn, you didn't say 'mooch' though, so no one took a shot b:sad

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

pure magic FTW,gonna drop some kinda garnet gems in my tt99gold,prob be standard immac for now since im gonna decompose it to make nirv when the time comes.

Christona - Raging Tide

I use to have 63 vit in my cleric at 100. I got rank 8 and refined it a bit and i restated away 50 vit. Not til i went to my first fc after that to get to 101, i didnt realize how much lower my physical def was, when a random mob got on me, or i wanted to kill one for fun .. Vit is never a bad choice.. I loved my vit when i had it. Since then i have only 3 vit now. I only went down to 3 vit because i could affoard to do so. I have around 5k hp depending on the gear i am using, i got a few different rings and orins i use depending on the situation i am in. Clerics really should just as much vit as they see fit on THEIR toon. Its not anyone else's toon. Do what you need to do to survive on your toon. Pure magic is awesome at higher levels and higher refines. I had 63 vit til 100, i rarely have anyone complain about my heals not being good enough (only low hp sins, or bad aggro controling wizzies or psys have complained) I have never had any barb complain my heals.. Ih stack or bb.... a few popints in vit will not hurt in the long run.. Just know u might have to put an extra ih on the tank during a boss fight.. Use ur class right... Be smart with heals, and just have fun Admittedly, dont go crazy and put in 200 vit, and not expect noone to notice. I look at every cleric in any squad i get with, same goes with any mystic if they are main healer, and look at their mana pool AND hp. I notice, i dont say anything but i do notice.. I like to know how they are set up, and be aware if i need to have a few pots on hand incase i get aggro and they need a few seconds to get heals on me. I dont mind potting. Every cleric is set up ddifferently and play differently. play to your style and set ur class accordingly. IF you feel the need for vit, as did i, in lower levels put in vit, leave it there or restate it out, point is.. Know how to play cleric, and know how much u (generally) neeed to heal a class. Oh, and just enjoy the game.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

I use to have 63 vit in my cleric at 100. I got rank 8 and refined it a bit and i restated away 50 vit. Not til i went to my first fc after that to get to 101, i didnt realize how much lower my physical def was, when a random mob got on me, or i wanted to kill one for fun .. Vit is never a bad choice.. I loved my vit when i had it. Since then i have only 3 vit now. I only went down to 3 vit because i could affoard to do so. I have around 5k hp depending on the gear i am using, i got a few different rings and orins i use depending on the situation i am in. Clerics really should just as much vit as they see fit on THEIR toon. Its not anyone else's toon. Do what you need to do to survive on your toon. Pure magic is awesome at higher levels and higher refines. I had 63 vit til 100, i rarely have anyone complain about my heals not being good enough (only low hp sins, or bad aggro controling wizzies or psys have complained) I have never had any barb complain my heals.. Ih stack or bb.... a few popints in vit will not hurt in the long run.. Just know u might have to put an extra ih on the tank during a boss fight.. Use ur class right... Be smart with heals, and just have fun Admittedly, dont go crazy and put in 200 vit, and not expect noone to notice. I look at every cleric in any squad i get with, same goes with any mystic if they are main healer, and look at their mana pool AND hp. I notice, i dont say anything but i do notice.. I like to know how they are set up, and be aware if i need to have a few pots on hand incase i get aggro and they need a few seconds to get heals on me. I dont mind potting. Every cleric is set up ddifferently and play differently. play to your style and set ur class accordingly. IF you feel the need for vit, as did i, in lower levels put in vit, leave it there or restate it out, point is.. Know how to play cleric, and know how much u (generally) neeed to heal a class. Oh, and just enjoy the game.

I agree with this post. Once you learn to play a certain way, changing it usually lowers your survivability. Christona removed vit and noticed a loss of phys def and survivability and it took her a bit to adjust to that. If I added vit I'd notice a loss of survivability too, since I use stronger heals, more mdef, and a larger mp pool for plume shell to boost my survivability. Different techniquese for different builds, both work. Even on my bm, I learned to play with 3 vit (3 str/2dex) and when I added 74 vit for pvping my survivability went wayyyy down because I wasn't used to it. Later, when I restatted to pure again and lost the vit my survivability went wayyyyy down again. Since the endgame build goal for almost all clerics is pure it's not a bad idea to be pure and learn to play using shields seals, and proactive heals rather than vit stats that arguably don't even help.

And "I've never had anyone complain" =/= "no one notices". I keep hearing that but cleric's are treated with kid gloves because they're the most infamous class for rage quiting or some passive aggressive b.s. like not healing at a crucial time because they didn't agree with you earlier. I've kept the worst cleric's in squad without saying a word entire runs because I wanted their bb at the end and their buffs at the beginning. They buffed, so they could squad heal spam, afk, heal the person not tanking.... all they want because they 'paid' their admission by buffing and I am too lazy to look for another bb **** for the boss at the end. This is why some cleric are simply replaced by paint. Still, no one is gonna say anything to them about weak heals, bad technique, or improper gear because they don't want to look for another cleric.

I still hold that there is no reason for a decent cleric to stat vit for pve other than personal comfort. My in-game wife and I had similar gear and she was a very decent cleric, I was pure but she had 70 vit just because she felt more comfortable with it. I usually tanked and she usually died more. That is play style, not build. If you aren't very good, stat a little vit. If you feel more comfortable with vit, stat a little. If you plan on TWing, stat vit. If you are PvE then you won't need it, and if you 1v1 and have decent refines you won't want it.

ovenusarmanio

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still hold that there is no reason for a decent cleric to stat vit for pve other than personal comfort. My in-game wife and I had similar gear and she was a very decent cleric, I was pure but she had 70 vit just because she felt more comfortable with it. I usually tanked and she usually died more. That is play style, not build. If you aren't very good, stat a little vit. If you feel more comfortable with vit, stat a little. If you plan on TWing, stat vit. If you are PvE then you won't need it, and if you 1v1 and have decent refines you won't want it.

In addition to not only did nobody complain about my heals, I was often told I was a good cleric. And had many, many, many friend requests to be people's healer. I had so many I often had to delete people. This was a long time ago when I still actually played it, and the game was more active. Nowadays...I'm a bit rusty now the handful of times I do log it in. And am largely unnoticeable. Not because my cleric suddenly sucks, but because my reflexes are not what they used to be. So I get in heals after they take damage rather than before. But I've kept people fully healed with lesser gear standards at the same boss. It's about gear, and it's about skill. There is no reason for a decent cleric not to stat vit either, if that is what they prefer and are comfortable with. And I'm sure many vit clerics can remember numerous instances when they tanked more than a pure. Or survived something that the pure with their shields could not. That really comes down to gear, reflexes, skill, and ping.

Just my 2 cents.

Christona - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

-
And "I've never had anyone complain" =/= "no one notices". I keep hearing that but cleric's are treated with kid gloves because they're the most infamous class for rage quiting or some passive aggressive b.s. like not healing at a crucial time because they didn't agree with you earlier. I've kept the worst cleric's in squad without saying a word entire runs because I wanted their bb at the end and their buffs at the beginning. They buffed, so they could squad heal spam, afk, heal the person not tanking.... all they want because they 'paid' their admission by buffing and I am too lazy to look for another bb **** for the boss at the end. This is why some cleric are simply replaced by paint. Still, no one is gonna say anything to them about weak heals, bad technique, or improper gear because they don't want to look for another cleric.
.

Agreeable. I have done the same thing on my alts. On my cleric, i do try to do whatever i need to being taught from "old school" (by "old school" i mean pre-bloodpaint) clerics. I went out of my way and asked a lot of questions to higher level clerics about healing, solo'ing, and so on. I'll be the first to say, i have my days were i just suck at healing. Im completely off my game, and i play completely NOOBY. I apoligize for my healing during and after the instance.
I seem to get more compliments than insults about my healing. Even when i consider my healing completely dreadful, (mind you, this is after an instance so they could bash me all they wanted to) I see more "better than most clerics i squad with." In todays game play, being a cleric has gotten easier with the addition of bloodpaint and mystics. The newer clerics just coming into the game, hasnt seen the squad where sins arent demanded. Not many people, even 100+, will do sinless runs on Fc or any other higher level instances. Because of that, clerics rely, well not rely but you know what i am saying (hopefully), on that additional healing on melee classes, and not just clerics rely on this. All melee classes have gotten use to it and even when they dont have it, they seem to act as if they do.
Any-a-days the game has gotten easier to heal, and the clerics usefullness in the higher levels, other than a bb whoar or buff ****, has gone down. Its just pure laziness to not to heal the person with aggro, or improper training as a cleric. Do people anymore use the side bar with all the people in squad and use that to heal? I tend to think most do not.

MasterPerian - Lost City

Go pure magic then upgrade your gear +10 everything. have all your ornaments be Pdef ones. Throw a Shet load of Citrine Gems into your gear and be op as ** with 16k hp buffed or more with a charm on those sins better be really good at pvp or u will just *** **** them.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Whoa - Never noticed this thread before.

I know what I'll be drinking to Thursday.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whoa - Never noticed this thread before.

I know what I'll be drinking to Thursday.

Oh it's ok as usual some people say vit build is **** and fail as other say it's good. If you are bored in the maintenance you can read it. xD

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

One of the few upsides of my odd work schedule when it relates to this game is that I am at work during maint b:cute

I've the night off of work Thursday due to Thanksgiving, and no plans to do anything. I figure if I follow Dec's drinking game, by the time I'm done with this thread I'll be happily in the bag b:victory

Decus - Dreamweaver

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

One of the few upsides of my odd work schedule when it relates to this game is that I am at work during maint b:cute

I've the night off of work Thursday due to Thanksgiving, and no plans to do anything. I figure if I follow Dec's drinking game, by the time I'm done with this thread I'll be happily in the bag b:victory

I'll join you, Ted. Point me in the direction of a bar.