Small change to 5.0
Comments
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Why are you people acting like 5 APS alone is enough to solo end game instance? I don't care if you're 10APS if you go into TT3-3 with +2 claws and +3 armor with flawless shards you're NOT soloing that. 5APS makes soloing a lot easier but it's not 5APS alone that allows people to solo, it's having high refines and shards. If you REALLY wanted people not to solo then you'd want dragon orbs, packs, and refine aids taken out of the cash shop.
It takes a lot of hard work to get to the point where you can truly solo certain end game instances, and even then it's a challenge. You're stuck farming with squads for those instances unless you're a hardcore cash shopper or merchant, so maybe you should all quit griping about APS because you CAN NOT solo certain things just by having it. Want proof? Look at most Archers in Nirvana. They're 5APS and die horribly, hell that's the main reason I stopped taking them. The key to soloing is 5APS and high refines with good shards. Without the refines and shards 5APS alone won't do much good, you know.. since you'll be dead and all.0 -
i got aps build too, but only cos its needed.
if we wont gain chi attacking sparked fist/claws, it wont be nessecary as no1 rly will be aps.
personally i'll be happy, can go back to full dex.
and yes fists+ making bm and its gear has been wasted then, but heck.. i kinda never log bm.. and i prefer use bow lol.I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender
102 - Archer - Heartz0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why are you people acting like 5 APS alone is enough to solo end game instance? I don't care if you're 10APS if you go into TT3-3 with +2 claws and +3 armor with flawless shards you're NOT soloing that. 5APS makes soloing a lot easier but it's not 5APS alone that allows people to solo, it's having high refines and shards. If you REALLY wanted people not to solo then you'd want dragon orbs, packs, and refine aids taken out of the cash shop.
It takes a lot of hard work to get to the point where you can truly solo certain end game instances, and even then it's a challenge. You're stuck farming with squads for those instances unless you're a hardcore cash shopper or merchant, so maybe you should all quit griping about APS because you CAN NOT solo certain things just by having it. Want proof? Look at most Archers in Nirvana. They're 5APS and die horribly, hell that's the main reason I stopped taking them. The key to soloing is 5APS and high refines with good shards. Without the refines and shards 5APS alone won't do much good, you know.. since you'll be dead and all.
One point of interest : one of the first (maybe really the first?), and well know for it's youtube vids, hardcore soloers was.... an archer.
From what I saw, it's mainly the 5 aps that CAN'T solo that are against the nerf. They got the uber best advantage of all this aps-mania, that draws everything out of proportions : They are seen like gods and don't have to do shiit for it. The population (mainly wc) likes to think 5 aps = super dps and can solo everything. There are many players living on this myth, mainly with easy vana invites.
In general, the ones with characters that can actually solo 3-3, seem to agree the permaspark ability is broken (it's not aps that is really broken imo). Most even won't care to loose their soloing abilities, if that would bring some more balance back to game... Besides, even if this kind of fix would make ppl rage quit, it may also bring back players that quit because of the "aps-rule".0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »One point of interest : one of the first (maybe really the first?), and well know for it's youtube vids, hardcore soloers was.... an archer.
From what I saw, it's mainly the 5 aps that CAN'T solo that are against the nerf. They got the uber best advantage of all this aps-mania, that draws everything out of proportions : They are seen like gods and don't have to do shiit for it. The population (mainly wc) likes to think 5 aps = super dps and can solo everything. There are many players living on this myth, mainly with easy vana invites.
In general, the ones with characters that can actually solo 3-3, seem to agree the permaspark ability is broken (it's not aps that is really broken imo). Most even won't care to loose their soloing abilities, if that would bring some more balance back to game... Besides, even if this kind of fix would make ppl rage quit, it may also bring back players that quit because of the "aps-rule".
There are a few people that are exceptions to the rule, however those people have insane gear, which is why I said most. It also goes to farther prove my point that it's not APS alone that lets people solo, but it's the gear. I don't mind a nerf to APS as long as it doesn't royally **** melee classes.0 -
I know I may be a little late, but just gotta post this. For the people who don't already know, the nerf of chi being gained when sparking affects both sage/demon spark, and all classes. This is another reason for axe build Barbs to hate how much they have been neglected as an important class in the game.
Barb's can't compete w/ aggro end-game w/ out being -int build
Barb's can't wear head fash
Barb's have very little customizations
Barb's serve no purpose in caster Nirvana
Barb's get chi (after this nerf), the slowest of all classes
Beside's pulling catapults in TW, and buffing... What good is a Barb after this nerf? I'll be lucky if I get to send one or two debuffs in Nirvana per boss (devour), because it require's 35 chi (demon), per 15 seconds debuff.0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »There are a few people that are exceptions to the rule, however those people have insane gear, which is why I said most. It also goes to farther prove my point that it's not APS alone that lets people solo, but it's the gear. I don't mind a nerf to APS as long as it doesn't royally **** melee classes.
Indeed, what makes a vana fast (as example), is not the "aps" itself, it's more the +10 or higher refines combined with good timing/use of well designed genies and lvl11 amp/debuff skills. My fastest vana's till now, didn't include any 5 aps actually.
On this topic, however, it's mostly bms complaining on how they will be overrun (even more) by sins etc. A little copy-paste of something I said on sin-forums :Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Not going to say sin will be "less nerfed" then other classes on the permaspark thing, however, you can't say it will barely affect sins. It's an easy conclusion, but not the most objective.
Regarding the 3 main points where sins excel at, and comparing a little to bm (which seems to be the class that finds itself most retro-graded, especially when taking the cancel cast thing into account as well) :
- As best single target dps class : Yes, sin will have the easiest time regaining their chi. That gave sins a big advantage on using their 2 sparks (powerdash and subsea) while still using their genie for extra dps. Where before a sin could easily spark + powerdash + enrage + extreme poison/tangling mire, when having to use a genie for chi, that is over. Simply look at bms. Taking that into account, you could even go to saying that sins damage potential would go back more then that of a bm. The fact sin will still stay "the best", would that mean they have no right complaining or "that they just agree because this nerf affects them less then others".
- For vana : The above pretty much applies, but I think it's interesting too look at why a class gets invited. There are roughly 4 classes that are wanted in vana, not counting cleric : veno (amp+purge), fist/claw barb (buffs+debuff+dps), bm (hf+dps) and sin (dps). Bms still have enough chi gain to hf, which is imo the main thing to even bring a bm. If it weren't for buffs/debuffs/amps, vana would be best and fastest as sin only. Veno would actually become more essential here, with the ability to pass sparks. Besides, bms also have a "chi skill", in the form of an aps increase from cyclone heal.
- For soloing : What makes a sin capable of soloing, is the permaspark and the ability to keep hitting which results in heals. Using the chi skills during a demon spark would hurt. RDS is 2 sec to channel+cast, and, especially as demon, it would waste 2 sec of your main healing power. On the long run, the different cd won't allow you to permaspark, and even using the skills during spark would actually waste your spark more then it helps you. Unless I'm a total nub about demons, I'd say the main reason to spark as demon sin is to up your aps and thus heal faster (which won't affect your skills). If you use pots for chi, you waste those to heal yourself, up defences, or immune yourself. Over all, I think about 90% of the sins soloing TT, won't be able to do so after. Ofc, those with epic gear with a lot of def lvls and refines, will still be able too cause they can survive easily without being sparked. I saw mentioned more then once, that even at 4 aps base, staying sparked is a problem for many sins when soloing minister/emperor. Now, would a bm who can solo 3-3 also get nerfed this much on their soloing ability? I'm not sure, but don't think so. A bm is probably though enough to survive being unsparked for 10 to 15 sec.
In the end, I'm not so sure if sins would be "less fvcked up then the other melee classes". Ofc, nobody even knows if this even will be implemented...
I'm not so sure if the gap between sin and other classes will become bigger then it is now. A static look at just chi gain and permaspark, then say "it will barely affect sins" without looking how it actually is now (which may not be your opinion, but it's the main opinion found in this thread), is just a bit to easy. Ofc, ppl with ubergear will always be able to do more then others. But that's a whole other discussion then specific classes (melees), being able to do way way way more then others (casters) with similar gear.0 -
This will favor Sins, for sure.
But... On the other hand...
If you aren't sparked, can you still pull enough HP off of Bloodpaint to actually tank? You aren't a HA class.
Personally, I don't think this patch will make it to the live servers (it's only on the test servers so far, as far as I've been told by someone who has been reading the Wanmei forums), and if it does, do you REALLY think it will come here?
1) This patch is aimed at PW-CN, where they farm everything. PWI cash shops everything
2) They are liable to lose a large number of players here, depending on how bad it gets, it will encourage people to stop spending and start farming again, is that really what they want?
3) This isn't stuff from packs, so do you really think PWE wants it? They won't make a ****ing penny off it, and once everyone is 5.0 fully sharded and refined, there's nowhere else to go, nothing else to gain.
I personally hope it never makes it live, or if it does, never to the PWI servers. I'd MUCH rather roll Nirvana gear instead of R8/R9, and having god damn 2.5 APS bow archers running around sounds like 12 kinds of ****. 3.33 APS axes? Hell no. 4.0 Swords? Stuff it in your ear. 5.0 daggers, fists, and claws base? Well, we put up with that already, but 5.0 R9 GoF daggers sounds like a complete *****, to be honest.
There are people who said 'High APS was never intended for in this game', well, it looks like they changed their minds about that. >_>101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Spark is what keeps sins alive and again depends against who and your weapon refinement as well as if you are 3,33 or 4.0 unsparked.Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »This will favor Sins, for sure.
But... On the other hand...
If you aren't sparked, can you still pull enough HP off of Bloodpaint to actually tank? You aren't a HA class.
Now that every1 has spent several hundred or even k dollars or HARD WORK to get 5 aps, they need another cash income, either it was r9 and now since people won`t be able to solo as much they will be forced to charge zen if their fail at merching.
IF they implement it here and if I was a cser I wouldn`t give a damn cent to this greedy company nor play any other game made by them, they are **** the game more and more, for every "fix" they do they do more harm than good. I`m not mad becouse sins will be nerfed a bit but that it will cause a far greater imbalance between classes, mostly BM`s.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy
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Whoa, sorry, completely the wrong thread.
So, uh, about those 5.0, eh? Crazy.0 -
If you consider that the price of rapture an uncanny crystal are already so high that its nearly cheaper to go rank 9-nerfing the guys running it is just gonna not accomplish anything positive. Without the option of creating a high aps high dmg toon then the only option for uber end game gear farming is gonna the the credit card an merchanting.
Same really if you consider that tt greens have finally gotten cheap an golds are best bought from the chip guy. Do you really want to have greens that cost as much or more than the golds? Thats how it used to be...
I can't think of one way aps has negatively affected the game. nerf or not caster classes are never going to get an invite into tt 3x unless we are friends. You have your very own nirvana now so... another thing is sins are going to kill you without mercy in open world pvp same as before as the high aps has nothing to do with how they kill you in pvp. Barbs are still not going to hold aggro from +10-+12 weapons of anykind .So what was we fixing with this nerf?0 -
More expensive green TT mats would make it worth to run with non aps squad.0
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Gave up reading this after page 8. I'm a 5.0 sin and this doesn't even bother me. Inner Harmony, Cloud Eruption, Spark Pot's, Forced Stealth, Rising Dragon Strike, Tackling Slash. I have so many spark's from just that. At least 6 If i counted properly. Most pro NV squad's i go in can easily take down a boss within two. Most of the boss's don't even take a full spark. This hit's BM's the hardest. Also making the tideborn class more broken and OP'd. So good game pwi (****ty game).Ahira is a spyb:cryb:cryb:cry0
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They should just nerf the mobs/bosses so that they all die in 1 hit. That way, everyone is equal. No more complaining about aps this caster that.
Or make it more cash shop oriented, +12 kills any pve thing in 1 hit, +11 in 2 hits +5, in 7 hits, and +1 in 12 hits. Make bosses be berserk always, so they're forced to squad or get 5 aps +12. b:pleased[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Indeed, what makes a vana fast (as example), is not the "aps" itself, it's more the +10 or higher refines combined with good timing/use of well designed genies and lvl11 amp/debuff skills. My fastest vana's till now, didn't include any 5 aps actually.
On this topic, however, it's mostly bms complaining on how they will be overrun (even more) by sins etc. A little copy-paste of something I said on sin-forums :
I'm not so sure if the gap between sin and other classes will become bigger then it is now. A static look at just chi gain and permaspark, then say "it will barely affect sins" without looking how it actually is now (which may not be your opinion, but it's the main opinion found in this thread), is just a bit to easy. Ofc, ppl with ubergear will always be able to do more then others. But that's a whole other discussion then specific classes (melees), being able to do way way way more then others (casters) with similar gear.
Chezedude - Dreamweaver (youtube is called chezedude)
Was leaps and bounds beyond anyone when it came to that stuff, still is on lost city from what I hear :PBladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Only over a year too late? Way to go devs :PPacks World International0
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/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »Only over a year too late? Way to go devs :P
b:chuckleb:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thank you so much ForsakenX for the sig b:cute0 -
It would just be easier to put a cool down on spark >.>
And what about when they bring in the -Int Stones to shard gears with lol major fail...0 -
Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »If my ability to attack 5 times per second or my abilty to stay permanetly spark is altered it will be the end of me playing this game an I will never give any game made by this company another dollar for as long as I or any of my children live.
b-o-o-h-o-o"And as for bragging, I don't need to brag. I am famous, yo. My accomplishments are legendary. I am BLOODMYSTIC, speaker of truth, bane of the Barbarians of Impulse, slayer of the **** of Narla, liberator of all the free peoples of the Archosaur server, former master propagandist for our leader in freedom, Proski, and Archtroll of the PWI Forums. And now? Amiable pve wizard, beloved by all, aka BLUEMYSTIC. Pleased to make your acquaintance."0 -
Well...better late than never. Even though I'm claw, I look forward to the reactions..........and QQ of this.b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower
-Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
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-Master of Coffee-0 -
Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well yeah what ever, fact is if you ruin chi ability like that it gonna suck. I played this game back when it took 20 mins to kill a tt boss an believe me it sucked.
A whole 20 minutes, huh?
sins: boring class for boring people"And as for bragging, I don't need to brag. I am famous, yo. My accomplishments are legendary. I am BLOODMYSTIC, speaker of truth, bane of the Barbarians of Impulse, slayer of the **** of Narla, liberator of all the free peoples of the Archosaur server, former master propagandist for our leader in freedom, Proski, and Archtroll of the PWI Forums. And now? Amiable pve wizard, beloved by all, aka BLUEMYSTIC. Pleased to make your acquaintance."0 -
Lol if they implement this nerf in the servers,
It'll take about 10x more time to farm TT 3-2 and TT 3-3 since they're now really hard to do...
Imagine a non aps barb trying to solo minister in TT 3-2 n 3-3..imma fall asleep lol0 -
Monsieur - Lothranis wrote: »Lol if they implement this nerf in the servers,
It'll take about 10x more time to farm TT 3-2 and TT 3-3 since they're now really hard to do...
Imagine a non aps barb trying to solo minister in TT 3-2 n 3-3..imma fall asleep lol
Maybe they are not supposed to be soloed...0 -
I'll be pretty upset once my Barb gets another downfall w/ axes.0
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Yin - Momaganon wrote: »Maybe they are not supposed to be soloed...
They are not indeed.
But what if barb is the last man standing ?
This happens often when squad cant kill boss fast enough. And after 50% HP bosses became even more hard.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
5 aps should have never came, same goes for tideborn.0
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CessiI - Dreamweaver wrote: »5 aps should have never came, same goes for tideborn.
But it and they did, so now all classes must be nerfed. Sucks *** doesn't it?0 -
5.0 is still achievable this is their way of trying to stop the ability to perma spark. This is not a troll it is true I have heard this from reliable source from PWE and also the head of PWE told our team when they were in China about this upcoming nerf.
If you use skills after spark I believe you still get chi but just normal attacks do not give you chi until the spark duration has ended. Sure a 4.0 BASE char won't be hindered too much but it is at least a start to trying to contain the monster that is APS/perma spark.Push me,
And then just touch me.
Tilll I get my,
Satisfaction.0 -
Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »5.0 is still achievable this is their way of trying to stop the ability to perma spark. This is not a troll it is true I have heard this from reliable source from PWE and also the head of PWE told our team when they were in China about this upcoming nerf.
If you use skills after spark I believe you still get chi but just normal attacks do not give you chi until the spark duration has ended. Sure a 4.0 BASE char won't be hindered too much but it is at least a start to trying to contain the monster that is APS/perma spark.
Yep, you are correct. Also, players can reforge their R8 gear to get up to three -0.05 -int PER piece. So, 5aps base will be possible w/ out the tome or Nirvana leggings.0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »They are not indeed.
But what if barb is the last man standing ?
This happens often when squad cant kill boss fast enough. And after 50% HP bosses became even more hard.
Man, when barb is the last man standing and everyone is scrambling to get their **** together while he charm tanks it, this game gets exciting.
Power to the tanky barbs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I never really demon spark in pk anyways
and for the arcanes out there
ill still be 4.0 based
then again..there's no way in hell im taking down a 48k hp barb in a 1v1 .__.0
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