You cant un-scramble an egg

135

Comments

  • Kinir - Lost City
    Kinir - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Not everyone get sarcasm on the internet so I thought I'd clarify. It's like people who think there's emotion in texting.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you want to fix something that's fundamentally broken, you need to return to the fundamentals of it. The APS cap remaining at 5 is the heart of the problem, and the issue will not go away until it is lowered. All other suggestions I've seen would cause further issues and not fix the problem itself.

    i think we can be more specific than that. the fundamental problem is that -interval has exponential pay-off as you add more of it; your proposed solution is straightforwardly to chop the top end off the exponential growth curve at some point deemed sufficiently low.

    this might well work, provided the cut-off point was appropriately chosen. (my own suggestion: make it low enough that perma-sparking becomes impossible for anyone, ever. i see no reason why the spark buff should be possible to make a permanent, fight-long status change as opposed to a temporary bonus. of course, this could alternatively be achieved by lengthening the spark skill's cooldown to twice the skill's duration or so... but i'm unsure if that would be sufficient to rebalance the game, so i won't suggest it.)

    it's certainly less intrusive than the "correct" fix, which would be to flatten the curve from exponential to linear somehow. THAT would require mucking with game mechanics on a very low level, and i wouldn't trust the company to do that without fundamentally **** big stuff up.
    If nothing else, they should fix it as a "may as well" strategy, because this game as a business is not sustainable as-is.

    with respect, i doubt that. the sustainability of this game currently rests on exploiting gambling addicts, a strategy that has only ever become unviable through legislative action as far as i know.

    well, unless the business management and marketing sides of PWE manage somehow to spend more money than the gambling side can rake in, and go broke that way. which would be a quite remarkable failure to pull off, but the business world has seen worse...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • ValFera - Heavens Tear
    ValFera - Heavens Tear Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited April 2011

    Now as a player that has stuggled to get some of the -int gear in the game, (i.e. i didn't get it all from opening packs, I had to work and save up for it). I can say that i do like farming DQ and coin on my toon now that i am at 2.86 (3.33 under demon). But at the same time I know how to control my aps when doing other things.

    Now what i don't like about 5.0 is that when in squads with other people all they do is spark and attack, it is like they forgot they have any other skills at all. Here is the problem i have found with several of the 5.0 people i have run across lately on our server they are power leveled toons that don't have a clue how to play the class but have been givien all the -int gear thier mains have gathered and all they do is permaspark. Thank goodness the new seeker/mystics classes can't use fists/claws might make those playing them learn thier classes that much better who knows.

    Now in several the nirvana runs i have done outside of friends where there was several -int people involved they did go much faster, and thus we could complete say 3-4 in the time another group of friends with only 1 -int person did 1. And i must say it was nice, but when forming a nirvana run i am not going to discount someone for not being -int or a magic class as they do bring alot to the game as well, esp if they know how to play thier class.

    Now as for BH 3-3 i have had the same success rate in completing them with 4 or 5 -int people in squand and a full "rainbow" for lack of a better word sqaud. They can be completed it just takes time and skill, which i am sorry is lacking alot in the new players as of late. (too much power leveling going on --- but that is a whole different discussion).

    So with that said any non-aps player that wants to do nirvana on my server hit me up if we can find enough like minded people on-line at that time we will get 'er done! b:laugh
    Leader - Hikari LVL3 PVE Faction {Heavens Tear}

    Hikari is the Light.
    RESPECT is part of the Light so when you show others respect you show them the light.
    TRUTH is part of the Light, so if you find deception put light on it for all to see.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vristion
    vristion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The only way to fix it, is to let it purge it's self out. Create more engame gear that does not offer the insane amounts of intervals.. eventually over due time, it will be a trade of... Have High aps, and be super squishy, and more less die to anything that farts on you... Or go with the flow of engame gear, and survive along with the rest.
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Even a slot machine will throw you a bone some times. The drop rates on the packs are pathetic at best. Most already already Have the stuff in the packs, or realize the financial obligation is to great for them. It is time to find another way to generate revenue. perhaps a way where my 20 bucks here and there get me some thing. Until then I just put my wallet away. as have many others.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    R9 BM and sin gear IJS

    I believe PWI's solution to it was the Seeker debuffs that lets casters deal massively increased damage against monsters.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But just a food for thought, If they lower the aps cap, would they also lower the channeling cap too? Asking this because with a cleric or wiz have high channeling and their rank 8 weapon, they would be stealing aggro all the time and could casuse them to die a lot where it might result in a squad wipe.

    -chan is already effectively capped, because it doesn't affect casting time. (if this were not true, high-chan wizards should be as desirable in fast nirv squads as high-aps melee DDs. are they?)

    clerics and wizzes stealing aggro is more a problem of the cleric and wiz not adequately controlling their damage output, which is a basic skill all DD classes damn well need to learn; getting the rightful blame for a few squad wipes is good inducement for those wizzes to learn how to stop their gush-pyro macros once in a while and let that aggro cool off before restarting their nuking. archers face a similar problem, as do still-squishy sins; it's not remarkable.

    ...says he, who proudly refers to his wiz alt as his "die-zard" in guild and squad chat, knowing he needs a res or release at least thrice every gaming session on that alt due to getting aggro he can't handle... but i never claimed to be anything better than a sucky-*** wiz, either. b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    vristion wrote: »
    The only way to fix it, is to let it purge it's self out. Create more engame gear that does not offer the insane amounts of intervals.. eventually over due time, it will be a trade of... Have High aps, and be super squishy, and more less die to anything that farts on you... Or go with the flow of engame gear, and survive along with the rest.

    Creat more gear and raise the level cap. Higher gear and less -int on them and less -channeling. Higher level means less quickness but more tankness. Solution solved b:victory
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I say we take everything except NPC gear out of the game for 3 months, and we will see if both player quality and the economy don't improve

    b:laughb:dirtyb:laugh
  • Wenomus - Dreamweaver
    Wenomus - Dreamweaver Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    LMFAO, you rly think devs litsen to players? they doubled their income with aps
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    And there about to loose 3/4. Not to good at math I guess.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Oh look, this thread again. What does it take for you to understand that what you write here on this forum will not affect the development of this game?
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    Lets start a thread with realistic alternatives to nurfing aps. PWI had no forsight when they made the class but now that pandoras box is open what do we do.

    To many people have invested in there aps. pwi is stuck. <there own fault imo>

    Problem A:
    If it remains the same ALOT of people will quit.

    Problem B:
    If they nurf aps ALOT of people will quit.

    So with out to much QQ'ing how do you guys we suggest we fix pwe's tremendous blunder?

    We Have drifted off some.
  • Jenovadeath - Lost City
    Jenovadeath - Lost City Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Wenomus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    LMFAO, you rly think devs litsen to players? they doubled their income with aps

    actually in 2010 their stocks dropped for less than their financial gain in 2009 at the end of the year as opposed to rising each year prior to that and being more profitable the year before it as well.

    Every year up to 2010 they had a higher profit margin than the year before it 2010 was the first year when the company as a whole made less money than the year before they claimed this was due to not having as many new releases and working on expanding their existing games. This says to me forget about more expansions they make more money releasing new titles its already been said that there will be no new instances in this expansion for us. The only new thing we realy got was 2 classes and some fail guild bases that aren't worth the money/effort to get them.
  • _Aphrael_ - Sanctuary
    _Aphrael_ - Sanctuary Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    IMO they sholud change -int so it functions in a similar way to -channeling as % increase to base attack speed.If -0.1 int was converted to +15% base attack speed the limited available pieces of equipment would max it at around +100% doubling base attack speed. this would reduce the dmg caused by fists and daggers while marginally increasing that of swords/axes and bows which would increase the likely hood of people using them.

    This way someone who has 6 pieces of int gear would still attack faster than someone with 3 unlike if they left int as it is and maxed aps at 3.0

    Skills that currently increase attack speed would simply add to what ever your base speed is so someone with +100% attack speed ofmr int gear using demon spark would have 120% increased attack speed

    i havent fully run the numbers for this but if melee classes stilll massivly out dmg arcane then magic implement could simply have their stats increased so the potential dps is similar for all classes.


    PWE would still get there income form poeple trying for max int as it would stil lbe very powerful but all classes wouls deal similar dmg and have the smae chances of getting into instance sqauds.

    And for those that complain it would make nirvana take to long suck it up the instance is designed for people to farm there gear not for you just make money
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    What I want to know is this:


    What's the huge deal?

    What is so broken about high aps DDs?


    PvP wise you cannot honestly sit here and complain about an aps DD in PvP, because claw/fist built players are up against +12 rank 9 bows and magic swords and soul spheres or w/e they're called.



    PvE wise WHY DO YOU CARE? They farm fast? Big deal, how does it really affect you? If you're a mage or a psychic or w/e then yes, you aren't as useful in PvE, the trade off? By being ridiculously powerful in PvP, ESPECIALLY in TW. A rank 9 psychic with high refines, JoSD sharded in white vodoo is near indestructible. I've seen a fist BM try to take down a full +10 R9 psy with a +12 wep, the BM got all of 3 attacks off before he was sealed and this was multiple times. Hit, hit hit, seal. Hit, hit, hit seal. A mage can easily one shot an entire group of people from range. Heaven forbid that the BMs and barbs are able to farm a little bit and still not be as useful as you in a TW.


    This is just a bunch of crybabies complaining because they completely dominate one aspect of the game but not another, that or people who can't afford -interval gears because they aren't trying.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Weither they read it or not this is a place for players to get together and discuss currant issues.

    Wither they choose to address the issue or not... as players there may be some things we can collectivly do.

    This thread was to discuss hypothetical idea's. That is why I said WE not PWE.

    IT was propaganda that made them popular to begin with, so could be the propaganda to make them less valid.

    whether PWE likes it or not.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    Weither they read it or not this is a place for players to get together and discuss currant issues.

    Wither they choose to address the issue or not... as players there may be some things we can collectivly do.

    This thread was to discuss hypothetical idea's. That is why I said WE not PWE.

    IT was propaganda that made them popular to begin with, so could be the propaganda to make them less valid.

    whether PWE likes it or not.

    But nothing will come out of our pointless discussion. Why bother waste time QQing to each other or QQ about people QQing then have more people QQing about people QQing about all the QQs?
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    What I want to know is this:


    What's the huge deal?

    What is so broken about high aps DDs?

    .

    They have a complete and total grip over high lvl instances. Therefore choking the development of any other class without serious financial investment.

    IN part because player ignorance, and lazyness.

    but also because of inbalance and a whole lotta loud mouth int dd telling them how hard these said instances are without them. it's BS complete and Total BS
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    They have a complete and total grip over high lvl instances. Therefore choking the development of any other class without serious financial investment.

    IN part because player ignorance, and lazyness.

    but also because of inbalance and a whole lotta loud mouth int dd telling them how hard these said instances are without them. it's BS complete and Total BS

    Total grip? Did the appearance of 5 APS stopped any other classes from going into those instances?

    Oh why do I even bother. Have fun with your pointless discussion.
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Total grip? Did the appearance of 5 APS stopped any other classes from going into those instances?

    Yes!! yes it did.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    Yes!! yes it did.

    So because of the appearance of 5APS, wiz, veno, psy are now banned from Nirvana? That's a shocker. Just because other people bought newer and faster car, it doesn't stop your mini van from point A to point B.
  • Jenovadeath - Lost City
    Jenovadeath - Lost City Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    no its the fact that if you want to be even remotely competitive in this game you have to go aps anymore its turning into another mmo which shalt not be mentioned especially the community here anymore and its attitude.

    Everyone that calls the ppl saying aps needs a nerf anything is only someone that will be affected by it and doesn't want to be one on the recieving side of the nerf. Everyone keeps saying its broken with only a very few saying it isn't this discussion about aps being broken has been going on for over a year now.

    Obviously somethings wrong ppl constantly say well doing this wouldn't be possible without aps like 3-3 tell me how it was players were doing it then before aps was even available through gear then? Players have been doing every instance there was before NV ever came into pwi the only difference is they actually knew the mechanics of the fight and knew how to deal with certain aspects of it. Now its all just get an aps crew and tank and spank with aps ppl don't even need clerics anymore with bloodpaint they can heal themselves faster than a boss can damage them.

    Its definitly broken pvp as well theres no where near the amount of pvp on lc as there used to be its dropped by at least 3/4 what it was after the sins 79-99 skills came out.b:laughovbious broken mechanics is obviousb:laugh you can't see it? then I think ur just blind and don't wanna be the one being nerfed.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    So because of the appearance of 5APS, wiz, veno, psy are now banned from Nirvana? That's a shocker. Just because other people bought newer and faster car, it doesn't stop your mini van from point A to point B.
    They're aren't complaining about 5 aps DDs in instances, they're complaining because said 5 aps players don't run with them.

    no its the fact that if you want to be even remotely competitive in this game you have to go aps anymore its turning into another mmo which shalt not be mentioned especially the community here anymore and its attitude.

    Bull****.

    There are SEVERAL people in my guild who have managed to obtain good gears without "going aps"

    We have a mage with a +10 second cast nirvana sword with 2 icebourne gems.
    A full R9 cleric with +12 weapon and at least +10 gears


    And many, many, many players who have managed to get rank 8 or better with +10 or higher refines without going aps or cash shopping.

    Obviously somethings wrong ppl constantly say well doing this wouldn't be possible without aps like 3-3 tell me how it was players were doing it then before aps was even available through gear then? Players have been doing every instance there was before NV ever came into pwi the only difference is they actually knew the mechanics of the fight and knew how to deal with certain aspects of it. Now its all just get an aps crew and tank and spank with aps ppl don't even need clerics anymore with bloodpaint they can heal themselves faster than a boss can damage them.


    That's because TT3-x bosses were changed several months ago and made much more difficult. Steelation for example, went from mediocre single target damage with a small range AOE sleep and a weak AOE earth based DoT, To being able to AOE purge, stun, extended range on the sleep, buffs himself to 5 aps, etc.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Sin is broken and needs a nerf. But I'm addressing the point of people think just because 5APS DDs farm faster, they themselves are not allowed to farm. ALL THE OTHER CLASSES ARE STILL DD-ING AT THE SAME RATE AS BEFORE. Casters were never wanted in instances in the first place. Just because someone with a race car doesn't want to take road trip with you, it doesn't ban your old mini van from the road. You can still take road trips with other vans at the same speed as you did before.

    Farming itself already got a nerf with the rank sale. Who needs Nirvana these days? You casters spent 40-50 mil on an endgame weapon and 2 pieces of armor. My BM's endgame axes cost 500 mil to make from Nirvana. My fists cost 150 mil just for the gold mat. Guess what, that cheap R8 weapon still kills my BM if I'm not careful.
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I stole this from another location but it sums stuff up pretty good in my mind. If you people don't think this is them most idiotic thing you ever seen then hell with trying.

    Absurd

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CUMEb5lNIU

    Please watch it then head back to your toon and try to be proud of it.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    I stole this from another location but it sums stuff up pretty good in my mind. If you people don't think this is them most idiotic thing you ever seen then hell with trying.

    Absurd

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CUMEb5lNIU

    Please watch it then head back to your toon and try to be proud of it.

    And guess how much his gears are worth? Every piece of this gears is +11 or +12. It costs a few hundred mil just to get to 5 APS without the refines. I still haven't farmed back what my gears cost. You think every BM/Sin gets full interval gears handed to them at 100?

    Why shouldn't someone who spent more on their gears kill things faster than you? If you point out the casters that spent the same amount on their gears but can't DD as fast, they can one shot 5-6 people in TWs in one go. They got benefits from the money they put into the gears, just in a different area.
  • amandisha74
    amandisha74 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    And guess how much his gears are worth? Every piece of this gears is +11 or +12. It costs a few hundred mil just to get to 5 APS without the refines. I still haven't farmed back what my gears cost. You think every BM/Sin gets full interval gears handed to them at 100?

    Why shouldn't someone who spent more on their gears kill things faster than you? If you point out the casters that spent the same amount on their gears but can't DD as fast, they can one shot 5-6 people in TWs in one go. They got benefits from the money they put into the gears, just in a different area.

    The point is is Shouldn't even be possible. its not for any other class that I know of.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    A psychic can solo harpy wraith, I don't know if any have yet but I know several have come very close.



    And it shouldn't be possible for a character to be practically invincible and still be able to one shot a dozen people with one move.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    amandisha74 wrote: »
    The point is is Shouldn't even be possible. its not for any other class that I know of.

    Then you are talking about Sins, which I agree needs a nerf, not 5 APS.

Categories