You cant un-scramble an egg

Lord_Mot - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd rather they first nerf permaspark.
Give demon / sage spark a 60 second cooldown. Spamming it every 15 seconds is pretty dumb and noone uses any other skill.

Alternatively they can make permaspark available to other classes, at least in PVE. My idea was to give clerics a level 100 skill that is a zhen which gives surrounding squad members enough chi to spark every 15 seconds. Give it like 8 second channeling and I don't think PVP will be impacted much.

Astrella, you're a genius!

Cheze - Lost City

I unscrambled your egg...

...last night

SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands

Auto-attack is out. Fun, challenging games are in.

Seriously, why are all of you that hate aps so much still even playing this game? Current day PWI offers the worst squad dynamics of any MMORPG out there. If that is something that is important to you, find a new game to play that actually provides it.

If you want more than auto-attack for endgame instances, PWI is not for you.


b:bye

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary

Restrict all fist and claw weapons to blademasters only.
Maximum attack speed: 2.5
Change sparks so that using them will not increase attack speed.

Kinir - Lost City

PWI has TW which draws a lot of people here. The solution isn't a mass exodus so only sin's are on the servers and nothing else hate to tell you.

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

Lord_Mot - Harshlands wrote: »

I may be oversimplifying, buy if demon/sage spark had a cooldown of say, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or even 90 seconds, would that not stop the permaspark monster in its tracks?

demons more so.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I would love to see aps cap lowered to 3.33 just to see the arcane people QQ.


As it is, I don't have a problem taking an arcane or two to an instance. If I'm running nirvana and it's a cleric, a 5 aps sin, a 5 aps BM, and myself, a 5 aps barb, then I don't mind taking a mage or psy to fill up the last two slots because I know that the 4 of us have enough damage output to complete the instance reasonably fast.


But if aps was lowered? Then kiss your chances of going to instances with me goodbye, because now I need all the 3.33 aps DDs I can get.


Same for removing perm spark, even without it, me hitting at 3.33 aps is going to outdamage any arcane. Put a 60 second cooldown on triple spark? Ok fine, now I'm going to go with a 5 aps BM, cleric, veno, 5 aps sin, and another 5 aps sin. Because now I need to kill bosses in 15 seconds, and yes, THAT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Even now with my lame +5 lunar claws in a squad with other people who have similar weapons, we all triple spark, BM uses triple spark, could eruption, HF, tangling mire, clerics level 11 pdef debuff, extreme poison, and veno amp on the boss we can take off about 60% off the bosses HP in 15 seconds.



And you people complaining? It will just make things harder for you. You remove aps from the game? Fine. TT3-3 is now impossible so GL getting your gears. They changed TT3-3 back? Ok great. TT3-3 squad LF more DDs, must have at least +10 rank 8 bow.

Cheze - Lost City

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I would love to see aps cap lowered to 3.33 just to see the arcane people QQ.


As it is, I don't have a problem taking an arcane or two to an instance. If I'm running nirvana and it's a cleric, a 5 aps sin, a 5 aps BM, and myself, a 5 aps barb, then I don't mind taking a mage or psy to fill up the last two slots because I know that the 4 of us have enough damage output to complete the instance reasonably fast.


But if aps was lowered? Then kiss your chances of going to instances with me goodbye, because now I need all the 3.33 aps DDs I can get.


Same for removing perm spark, even without it, me hitting at 3.33 aps is going to outdamage any arcane. Put a 60 second cooldown on triple spark? Ok fine, now I'm going to go with a 5 aps BM, cleric, veno, 5 aps sin, and another 5 aps sin. Because now I need to kill bosses in 15 seconds, and yes, THAT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Even now with my lame +5 lunar claws in a squad with other people who have similar weapons, we all triple spark, BM uses triple spark, could eruption, HF, tangling mire, clerics level 11 pdef debuff, extreme poison, and veno amp on the boss we can take off about 60% off the bosses HP in 15 seconds.



And you people complaining? It will just make things harder for you. You remove aps from the game? Fine. TT3-3 is now impossible so GL getting your gears. They changed TT3-3 back? Ok great. TT3-3 squad LF more DDs, must have at least +10 rank 8 bow.

i hit at 2.86 anyways.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Restrict all fist and claw weapons to blademasters only.
Maximum attack speed: 2.5
Change sparks so that using them will not increase attack speed.

If you did THIS, then the other two would be unnecessary. Also, removing the aps increase from sparks would remove the only reason people use demon spark in the first place. But the spark isn't the problem, it's only how it stacks with int gear. As someone with a non-aps demon sin, I can tell you firsthand that demon spark as it was designed to work is not OP.

I wish we would stop entertaining the "restrict them to BMs only" idea. Clawchers/clawbarians/clawsins are pathetic to watch, yeah, but you'll still have the problem of aps BMs... and BMs are naturally better-built for aps anyway due to their skills (primarily fist mastery). So you will have solved a tangential problem without solving the real problem, and in the process you remove fist functionality for other classes that might use them for non-aps purposes (archers can do this).

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I would love to see aps cap lowered to 3.33 just to see the arcane people QQ.


As it is, I don't have a problem taking an arcane or two to an instance. If I'm running nirvana and it's a cleric, a 5 aps sin, a 5 aps BM, and myself, a 5 aps barb, then I don't mind taking a mage or psy to fill up the last two slots because I know that the 4 of us have enough damage output to complete the instance reasonably fast.


But if aps was lowered? Then kiss your chances of going to instances with me goodbye, because now I need all the 3.33 aps DDs I can get.


Same for removing perm spark, even without it, me hitting at 3.33 aps is going to outdamage any arcane. Put a 60 second cooldown on triple spark? Ok fine, now I'm going to go with a 5 aps BM, cleric, veno, 5 aps sin, and another 5 aps sin. Because now I need to kill bosses in 15 seconds, and yes, THAT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Even now with my lame +5 lunar claws in a squad with other people who have similar weapons, we all triple spark, BM uses triple spark, could eruption, HF, tangling mire, clerics level 11 pdef debuff, extreme poison, and veno amp on the boss we can take off about 60% off the bosses HP in 15 seconds.



And you people complaining? It will just make things harder for you. You remove aps from the game? Fine. TT3-3 is now impossible so GL getting your gears. They changed TT3-3 back? Ok great. TT3-3 squad LF more DDs, must have at least +10 rank 8 bow.

You seem to think that everyone wants to run with randoms with the attention span of a squirrel. I doubt many people will raqequit if they can't take down Nirvana in 5mins. Likewise for a fixed TT3... +10 r8 is just overkill. Seriously, are we that spoiled in this game?

EDIT: Ugh, sorry for double posting, I was assuming someone would post since my last one and make an edit ignorable. XD

amandisha74

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I would love to see aps cap lowered to 3.33 just to see the arcane people QQ.


As it is, I don't have a problem taking an arcane or two to an instance. If I'm running nirvana and it's a cleric, a 5 aps sin, a 5 aps BM, and myself, a 5 aps barb, then I don't mind taking a mage or psy to fill up the last two slots because I know that the 4 of us have enough damage output to complete the instance reasonably fast.


But if aps was lowered? Then kiss your chances of going to instances with me goodbye, because now I need all the 3.33 aps DDs I can get.


Same for removing perm spark, even without it, me hitting at 3.33 aps is going to outdamage any arcane. Put a 60 second cooldown on triple spark? Ok fine, now I'm going to go with a 5 aps BM, cleric, veno, 5 aps sin, and another 5 aps sin. Because now I need to kill bosses in 15 seconds, and yes, THAT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Even now with my lame +5 lunar claws in a squad with other people who have similar weapons, we all triple spark, BM uses triple spark, could eruption, HF, tangling mire, clerics level 11 pdef debuff, extreme poison, and veno amp on the boss we can take off about 60% off the bosses HP in 15 seconds.



And you people complaining? It will just make things harder for you. You remove aps from the game? Fine. TT3-3 is now impossible so GL getting your gears. They changed TT3-3 back? Ok great. TT3-3 squad LF more DDs, must have at least +10 rank 8 bow.

You are beyond a doubt the Most Arogant and ignortant simple minded noob I have met. What a putz

Sereneai - Dreamweaver

Astrelle's idea is actually pretty cool, if maybe a bit op itself.

it would allow build other than 4/5aps to be effective DDS, meaning rainbow squads might start to form again for the cool stuff having an array of classes offers.....without taking away the ability of a 4/5 APS melee squad to take on whatever the heck they want.

on the other hand it would mean anyone with them would automatically become OP without having to farm/buy gear, so you would have to offset that somehow...as well as a way of keeping that nifty veno spark skill useful. hmm, maybe make it burn the cleric's chi, in order to give the others chi

>.> it would also mean you would need a second healer, to make up for the cleric being stuck in aoe....

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Same for removing perm spark, even without it, me hitting at 3.33 aps is going to outdamage any arcane. Put a 60 second cooldown on triple spark? Ok fine, now I'm going to go with a 5 aps BM, cleric, veno, 5 aps sin, and another 5 aps sin. Because now I need to kill bosses in 15 seconds, and yes, THAT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Even now with my lame +5 lunar claws in a squad with other people who have similar weapons, we all triple spark, BM uses triple spark, could eruption, HF, tangling mire, clerics level 11 pdef debuff, extreme poison, and veno amp on the boss we can take off about 60% off the bosses HP in 15 seconds.

Haven't you seen those screenshots of wizards criting 1M+ on highly debuffed mobs? If you are aiming for a 15 second kill, well-geared arcane classes can do an impressive amount of burst damage. Noone likes them though for their low amount of sustained damage relative to permaspark.

Chickpea - Lost City

Even if you nerf aps to 3.33 or something barbs wont be able to hold aggro. But i agree that Flesh Ream definitely needs to generate more aggression if you want barbs to still have a tanking function in this game.

Anyone that played barb for a while knows that you already had massive problems holding aggro before the interval gear came out 2-3 years ago. At least now you wont be asked to tank in the first place.

Unless a barbs has a strength/dex build and some silly g15/16 zerk weapon they cant hold aggro against casters and bow-users on same level for more than a few minutes either. Your average Rank8 DD will have aggro in a few shots inside any FBs for example.

I'm not sure if i think making barbs skills so powerful that they can hold aggro over 4.0/5.0s is a good idea though. You could have 4 super squishy sins stacked with attack gems, perma sparked going full out dmg not worrying about deaths since the 40k hp tank wont loose aggro. Thats to easy-mode.

It would also most definitely result in new problems/glitches. I doubt developers will be able to amp barbs without ruining something else. Flesh ream would problably start ticking AA users in pvp for 10k dmg and they would never fix it <.<

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Sure but those were regular mobs and how many +12 R9 mages are there? And the few there are, don't really run nirvana a lot. A 5 aps BM/Sin/Barb can output more damage over 15 seconds than a well geared arcane any day. Good damage? Sure, but over 15 seconds a 5 aps DD is going to do way more damage than a mage.

You seem to think that everyone wants to run with randoms with the attention span of a squirrel. I doubt many people will raqequit if they can't take down Nirvana in 5mins. Likewise for a fixed TT3... +10 r8 is just overkill. Seriously, are we that spoiled in this game?

Nirvana isn't even worth it if you can't run it quickly. TT is KIND of worth it, but it's still a very long instance if you don't have very high DPS.

You think you would be able to do nirvana and make decent profit with a +4 TT99 weapon? With a squad of DDs having that with no high APS DDs, you are looking at around 45 minutes for the run, if everything goes well. You know how much money you're looking at for a nirvana run, with normal drops? About 300k, MAYBE. So if everything goes well you're looking at a 45 minute run for 300k coins, you could easily make twice as much simply farming herbs.

Even if you nerf aps to 3.33 or something barbs wont be able to hold aggro. But i agree that Flesh Ream definitely needs to generate more aggression if you want barbs to still have a tanking function in this game.

Anyone that played barb for a while knows that you already had massive problems holding aggro before the interval gear came out 2-3 years ago. At least now you wont be asked to tank in the first place.

Unless a barbs has a strength/dex build and some silly g15/16 zerk weapon they cant hold aggro against casters and bow-users on same level for more than a few minutes either. Your average Rank8 DD will have aggro in a few shots inside any FBs for example.

I'm not sure if i think making barbs skills so powerful that they can hold aggro over 4.0/5.0s is a good idea though. You could have 4 super squishy sins stacked with attack gems, perma sparked going full out dmg not worrying about deaths since the 40k hp tank wont loose aggro. Thats to easy-mode.

It would also most definitely result in new problems/glitches. I doubt developers will be able to amp barbs without ruining something else. Flesh ream would problably start ticking AA users in pvp for 10k dmg and they would never fix it <.<

At endgame there is rarely an assigned tank anymore, since practically every boss random aggros nonstop.

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

My base is 3.33 and i still steal aggro from a barb when its tanking. And when i am saying steal aggro, I mean keeping my aps at 3.33 without the use of cyclone heel. So It wouldn't matter if they lower the cap.

But just a food for thought, If they lower the aps cap, would they also lower the channeling cap too? Asking this because with a cleric or wiz have high channeling and their rank 8 weapon, they would be stealing aggro all the time and could casuse them to die a lot where it might result in a squad wipe.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My base is 3.33 and i still steal aggro from a barb when its tanking. And when i am saying steal aggro, I mean keeping my aps at 3.33 without the use of cyclone heel. So It wouldn't matter if they lower the cap.

But just a food for thought, If they lower the aps cap, would they also lower the channeling cap too? Asking this because with a cleric or wiz have high channeling and their rank 8 weapon, they would be stealing aggro all the time and could casuse them to die a lot where it might result in a squad wipe.

I have 2 aps on my sin and he usually always steals aggro from barbs, and yeah...wizzes with channeling..no aps...equal..QQ.

All I hear from this post is, QQ I don't have aps so like we should nerf it, like every other ap thread. Lets be for real, if you did even come up with a "solution" why would the devs in china even consider to take your idea b:puzzled...yeah

/thread

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh wrote:

Nirvana isn't even worth it if you can't run it quickly. TT is KIND of worth it, but it's still a very long instance if you don't have very high DPS.

You think you would be able to do nirvana and make decent profit with a +4 TT99 weapon? With a squad of DDs having that with no high APS DDs, you are looking at around 45 minutes for the run, if everything goes well. You know how much money you're looking at for a nirvana run, with normal drops? About 300k, MAYBE. So if everything goes well you're looking at a 45 minute run for 300k coins, you could easily make twice as much simply farming herbs.

Who says I'm running it for profit? The notion of farming one's own gear isn't entirely dead, you know. Of course, this assumes I'm going to enter Nirvana at all... and if I do, it'd only be to embark on what's likely to be a very long set of projects. I haven't decided yet if I want to stick around long enough to accomplish such a thing. :P

And this also assumes that PWI hasn't been done in by bad decisions by that point. XD

Kinir - Lost City

Channeling used to be capped at 33%. I don't know if that came over to this version, but in early days they had no cap on it and a Mage wound up able to 100% -channel and they capped it. Again, don't know if they changed that here. Also no they wouldn't steal aggro they still have the cast time the channel time just goes away.

Ankiel - Raging Tide

i just dont believe you can make a change to one class, and have it fix everything

i suspect it would be near impossible to balance all the classes, and you will always have classes that are more op then others, and people will just go to that class.

if aps gets nerfed, and bm's or seekers, ect will ow become the most op class, people will just go there

the answer is to give me things in game that certain classes are more equipped then others to handle, instead of the current "Just DD as fast as possible" formula

TOtOty - Heavens Tear

just make every1 OP

example:
-500 channeling "or should i call it instant channeling" FTW X>

Jenovadeath - Lost City

b:laugh I say put an Add on every boss in every instance that spawns at specific hp points in the bosses Named Yulk and its tailored to kill 5 aps only and has a one shot skill for bms and sins and barbs and each and every class called BM-SMASH and ASSASSIN-SMASH.

lol even make it a Sin to boot make him unstealth one shot random person and forcestealth again throughout the fight. :P then ppl may actually have to pay attention to whats going on instead of full 5 aps squads with a cleric that is if they even need one.b:chuckle

Dess - Heavens Tear

Jenovadeath - Lost City wrote: »

b:laugh I say put an Add on every boss in every instance that spawns at specific hp points in the bosses Named Yulk and its tailored to kill 5 aps only and has a one shot skill for bms and sins and barbs and each and every class called BM-SMASH and ASSASSIN-SMASH.

lol even make it a Sin to boot make him unstealth one shot random person and forcestealth again throughout the fight. :P then ppl may actually have to pay attention to whats going on instead of full 5 aps squads with a cleric that is if they even need one.b:chuckle

Just one little addition to your idea: make it a Nirvana only thing.

Otherwise, your idea is AWESOME! b:laughb:laughb:laugh

SeverusSnape - Raging Tide

Just add random bramble buff on all TT, nirvana bosses.
Will make every squad get a veno to purge and cleric to rez.

amandisha74

The Real Issue is that his game is forcing everybody into the same class to be financialy viable. With exeptionaly bad grinding in this game you are forced into instances you don't wanna run on a class you don't wanna play.

THATS the part that needs to be fixed

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

amandisha74 wrote: »

The Real Issue is that his game is forcing everybody into the same class to be financialy viable. With exeptionaly bad grinding in this game you are forced into instances you don't wanna run on a class you don't wanna play.

THATS the part that needs to be fixed

Yep. Two friends were doing some grinding last night for DQ. They did some massive AOE on 200 mobs and got 1 DQ drop out of all 200 mobs.

That's an AWESOME drop rate right there.

And DQ rates on Mothrans are down. I used to be able to make 2 mil a day grinding on them, I can make 350k on them now. I made 6 mil grinding on them during double drops. Character is the same level now as before. Same grinding spot. So... I'm starting to keep track of coin income for DQ drops, and it's dropping.

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver

TOtOty - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just make every1 OP

example:
-500 channeling "or should i call it instant channeling" FTW X>

That only works with no cool downs, as auto attack permaspark has no cd.

vristion

Is a shame tho, P-servers ran by snot nosed fresh out of high school kids, can figure out better class balance then a full coperate ran company.

Kinir - Lost City

It's not about figuring it out it's about profit margins. They are publicly traded after all.

vristion

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

It's not about figuring it out it's about profit margins. They are publicly traded after all.

There was a hint of sarcasm in my prior post...


come to earth.