Do sins make this game more fun?

Longknife - Harshlands

Wolfixxxx - Lost City wrote: »

to your 2nd quote, any class that can heal themselves are weaked by disturbed soul and diminised vigor. making there healing skills not nearly as effective. also if there busy healing themselves then id assume they are not atking u. and if there not atking u then u obviously have the upper hand. not only that but psys also have sage bubble. so honestly i dont see how clerics are much of a threat to a psy given what a psy has at there disposal.

wizzies on the other hand i can understand. but you can pretty much disturbed soul and land slide most wizzards atks...

You're kidding, right?

Clerics can purify disturb soul, and have you seen the channeling time on Mystics? I'd never bother wasting Disturb soul on them.

And Diminished vigor is for crippling the opponent's charm. The crippled heal ability is a nice addition, but it's not enough to stop a cleric from healing themselves to full with ironheart spam.


Seriously though, have you ever played a Psy? Or a Cleric for that matter? They sleep us, triple spark and do physical damage spells. We're squishy as balls, we can't tank that. Meanwhile we only have magic attacks to fight them back with, which they can easily outheal. The moment you Soulburn, that's the moment they sleep you again and wait for it to run out.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Sins ruin pve for me not to fussed about them pvp there kinda squishy.. But having all that power often goes to there heads and they want to be the tank the dd and the cleric all rolled in to one with little to no effort put in to there class at all.

I hate sins.

Haden - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am probably one of the last people that should be giving advice about the pvp aspect of this game.

However aren't there certain apothecary items that will make you immune to damage for an X amount of time, better yet a apo that greatly reduces the damage you take, or even an apo that reduces the attack speed? (I do know there is a genie skill that will do that) I know that does little good when you may not know a sin is coming after you, but if you do know pop the apo as soon as you see a spark/sin come your way, and then hope like hell that you can turn around and stun lock him, or her.

Though obviously that is no easy task, and that only bms might even have a chance at pulling something like this off. Contrary to what popular belief seems to be... they are not invincible especially in a mass pvp setting. They are just extremely hard to counter effectively all the time. Which obviously does indeed suck really badly. Perhaps there is a way for every class to counter them... half-assedly... it's just that no one either thought of it... or just finds it to be ridiculously expensive to do. Though obviously I can be wrong, sins are very powerful, pve, and pvp. Especially 1 on 1 fights.

perhaps I am just overly... optimistic about their being a way to stop the pwnage of a sin... so they too wont get nerfed badly. =x

Pve + pvp 1vs1... aps > pretty much anything else.

Mass pvp it just levels the playing field a small bit. (at least imo)

When stating that Apothecary items are the best way to confront another class, thats not really a counter. There should be a direct counter class to each, but there isnt.

Ninja_Dagger - Dreamweaver

yup we killed pvp and were epicly OP b:shutup

Katzyn - Sanctuary

Just gonna respond to the first post -

While yes, they are still OP, I do believe that as long as you take things like that (being pounced upon like that) with a good sense of humour, it does make it more fun. Nothing more fun than minding your own business, getting pounced on, AD'ing and getting the hell out of dodge, imo. Had a ton of fun doing that in our TW last night - I'm so glad I chose demon veno; gave 'em a good run-around, lol.

Wolfixxxx - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

You're kidding, right?

Clerics can purify disturb soul, and have you seen the channeling time on Mystics? I'd never bother wasting Disturb soul on them.

And Diminished vigor is for crippling the opponent's charm. The crippled heal ability is a nice addition, but it's not enough to stop a cleric from healing themselves to full with ironheart spam.


Seriously though, have you ever played a Psy? Or a Cleric for that matter? They sleep us, triple spark and do physical damage spells. We're squishy as balls, we can't tank that. Meanwhile we only have magic attacks to fight them back with, which they can easily outheal. The moment you Soulburn, that's the moment they sleep you again and wait for it to run out.

i have not played a cleric, but i have played a mystic. and i am telling you this now, no mystic in there right frame of mind is gonna sit there and burn there mana by spam healing. i dont think you know how much mana just healing ourselves burn. not to mention all the other mana burning skills we have. and falling petals burns even more mana then break in the clouds.

we would be better off just casting vital/healing herb and just atking rather then using those other 2 skills.

Longknife - Harshlands

Wolfixxxx - Lost City wrote: »

i have not played a cleric, but i have played a mystic. and i am telling you this now, no mystic in there right frame of mind is gonna sit there and burn there mana by spam healing. i dont think you know how much mana just healing ourselves burn. not to mention all the other mana burning skills we have. and falling petals burns even more mana then break in the clouds.

we would be better off just casting vital/healing herb and just atking rather then using those other 2 skills.

...What does it matter? The point is ANY healing at all is gonna get to us. And this isn't about what you feel comfortable doing, it's about what you're capable of doing. I mean, you're crying about spending 240 MP per second. Dude I use 560 every 3 seconds; you'll be fine.

Wolfixxxx - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

...What does it matter? The point is ANY healing at all is gonna get to us. And this isn't about what you feel comfortable doing, it's about what you're capable of doing. I mean, you're crying about spending 240 MP per second. Dude I use 560 every 3 seconds; you'll be fine.

240 mp per second? no not even close. try looking at other skills for mystics. 3.4ki+sh MP just to cast our revive skill (ecatomb is wrong, the revive skill atually cost alot higher MP then that at max)

then after thats cast burn another 1k MP just by summing our main pet, another 500 MP to cast our plants, 1k MP to cast thicket OR 1.8k to cast cragglord, then burn w/e mana we have left casting natures vengence/bramble. oh and lets not forget transference to give our pets our own MP so they can use there skills.

no class in this entire game burns mana like a mystic does. a psy does not even come close. we do not have the time to waste mana on healing unless you want to destroy your charm.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

A mystic normal-casting is worse than a Wiz in DB, an Archer in Barrage, or a Cleric in BB/RB. It's that bad. When one skill NUKES half your MP in one shot, and two more take the rest of it, that's not 100 mp/sec (which is what the above AOE's do), it's like 8k/2sec.

So I dunno. Mystic... Needs to be fixed... Or each Mystic will need a Demon IH Cleric following them everywhere, so they can essentially have two MP charms at once. b:surrender

Wolfixxxx - Lost City

exactly. just casting revive ticks your MP charm. your MP charm is even more ****ed if you die right after casting it since u have to re cast it once u do revive urself.

in 2-3 days on my mystic i used up my entire plat MP charm just from normal skilling. that is pretty damn bad...

bobsnude

The fact is clear, it's not a rumor, it's just reality, this sin class got too much stuff to be invincible. As long as they keep it like this, the game won't be interesting for any other class. Of course, we can kill a sin (and a sin dead is a very noob player). The fact is gm must change the sin skills. I don't know, like to get stealth mode you need mirages (like the seeker skills). Get off those purify, sleep, stun, freeze, instant chi gain,reduce critical strike rate, attack rate, get off the no-death skill, the 1 damage skill, silence, increase damage by 30%, etc... So sure you can keep all this stuff in a single class. Of course when a class equals a gm, i think more stupid would be to keep it like this. So much abilities for a single class is just unsane. When wil the gm leave everlasting sleep ? Or maybe they don't like merit, fun, pvp since a sin is not playing. Did you ever see a gm have fun ingame ? None, no one can have fun when playing an invincible class or maybe they're just not able to play a real class, with standard skills, bonuses and maluses ... sin robots, glass puppets

sellables

Sins do not make this game more fun. People don't realize that sins are OP without stealth.. and to be able to walk around and always get the first hit (with no warning whatsoever) and carry around their own personal safezone (force stealth) is just icing on the cake. Thank god 99.9999999% of the sins out there are braindead and couldn't pvp to save their life. The few good ones out there make me wanna find a new game though tbh.

Risingson - Lost City

Sins are close to useless in TW.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

no, not really. it seems that most assassins plunge headlong into "Leeroy Jenkens' boss encounters, and wind up road kill. they all seem to be played by either teenagers or adults who act like teens...teens who are a few tacos short of a combo plate. i know one or two who are saner than most, but overall, they make me very nervous, since they overall dont seem to be team players.b:surrender

Phraze - Harshlands wrote: »

So I logged on today for the first time in about 5 months. And wow. I went out for a bit of pvp, and every time I went out, I was killed in around 3-4 seconds by a sin. I barely had any time to react. This is on a vit cleric with around 8k hp, and using absolute domain. Granted my phy. def is subpar. I also noticed that there was 0 white names outside besides me. Everyone else was blue name. 0 action. I guess I know why now >.>.

ON THE OTHER hand, I figured out that because of sins, you can finish a Nirvana run in like 10 minutes. The boring pve content has been made trivial, if you can't beat something then add more APS sins and it will become easy. This means farming good gear became a bit easier, and cheaper.


So overall do you guys feel that the addition of sins has made the game more fun and dynamic? Or has it killed any meaningful pvp and made the game less fun?

I really thought about shelling out for some better updates to my gear, but now I'm not so sure anymore. The game seems to be dead, with only sins playing >.>.

Kinnacat - Lost City

Yay, one more thread for me to speak my mind about the shushis! b:laugh

Sins almost made me rage quit. I hate them; I shoot one when ever I see one. Most sins are 100+ with NV and rank gear, and those are the ones who attack me, of course. I recently learned that they have some type of skill that makes a 9x unable to see them, even if they're 7x. What they do : Stealth jump you > stun lock you *NUUUH AD DOESN'T WORK! POT EITHER! b:shocked * > laugh at you and call you fail once you're dead. I know you can kill them, I manage 50% of the time, when I'm able to use AD and sage spark. If not, well then, they turned me into road kill. >.<

[example] = just some word games... b:chuckle

Eden - Raging Tide

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

Sins are close to useless in TW.

they r good for wiz and psy revenge for pvp and cube xD

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Endgame the only class with even a chance against a sin is a psychic due to very high DEF lvl from white voodoo, psychich will, and empowered vigor, and soul of silence.


The rest are just sin food. When a barb with 30k hp buffed with full JoSD (full R9 barb) gets taken down in 8 seconds charmed, something is wrong.

Azura - Lost City

There is one way to kill sins. Wait in safe zone. If you see a sin attacking somone go quickly to attack it. While he is still bafling "lol you suck, I am the best, bla,bla" which 95% do, that is your time to attack. After killing it, go to safe zone again, and repeat.

Lama tactics for a lame class.

Chickpea - Lost City

I find it funny when people say sins are so OP and in the next sentence they go "but i manage to kill them 60% of the times" or some other random high percentage. Its rather confusing actually b:shocked Like they're suppose to win 100% of the times 1v1 because they're so pro players.

On topic: Sins are stronger than any other class 1v1 endgame, thats why majority of active pkers on both pvp-servers re-rolled sin ages ago. Pretty much everyone that played for a while have their own assassin by now. So its a bit of both i guess. Sad that you had to ditch your main to be able to pvp/pve on fair terms, but fun that you can log your sin and run around and shiet on all other classes with minimum effort and kill bosses in 30 seconds.

Sins suck in TW and they're pretty useless in mass pvp unless they're like 104+ with R9. I guess thats still something to consider until the maps are back to 1 color again. Pretty sure they will suck in 40v40 guild wars to, if that ever gets implemented.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

On topic: Sins are stronger than any other class 1v1 endgame, thats why majority of active pkers on both pvp-servers re-rolled sin ages ago. Pretty much everyone that played for a while have their own assassin by now. So its a bit of both i guess. Sad that you had to ditch your main to be able to pvp/pve on fair terms, but fun that you can log your sin and run around and shiet on all other classes with minimum effort and kill bosses in 30 seconds.

Actually a LOT of PKers don't have sins.

For the same reason you don't play that video game with the difficulty turned all the way down.

Risingson - Lost City

Psychics do beat Sins endgame, because Soul of Silence is basically an anti-aps skill. On the other hand, Psychics are NOWHERE near as good as Sins in PvE. They said from the beginning Tideborns were going to be PvP oriented. Well, ok, but..

I seriously don't mind that Sins are so good in PvP, but the problem is they're even better in PvE. While Psychics are good in PvP, very good even, but they SUCK at PvE. BIG TIME. Farming as a Psychic freaking sucks.

While Sins have it easy, for real. I'm considering making a farming Sin at this point...

Burnout - Harshlands

I feel like PWI has dug themselves into a hole here. PWI has actually BUFFED multiple endgame instances to be harder so that sins can't just chew through the material in 10 minutes flat. This just made it even more impossible for "non" aps classes and excluded them further. Once you nerf APS, you *** over pve worse than it was before the aps craze, because you buffed these instances to compensate.

On the other hand, sins are so impossibly overpowered in PVP that they have sucked a large majority of the fun out of the game. I did not ever feel the need to publicly QQ about my server's strongest players like Nurfed's +12 R8 nature talker, Iamkiller's +12 nirvana bow, etc. They were overpowered, yes, but fighting them was actually enjoyable because
I felt like there was a .001% chance that things would land in my favor and I'd win, or I'd be able to drag the battle out and put up a decent fight. Even though I hated when I got pk'ed by them, I would say that if they quit the game it would make PWI less fun overall.

I can't say the same for sins. I want them wiped off the face of the earth. If there is even one Sin outside of west arch I cannot go out. AT ALL. Any possible fun I could have from the game is gone in an instant. I can't call my guild and ask for help in pvp. Why should I? Even if I get 3-4 people to take out time to come help, no one can see the sin, and he won't attack if I have 3-4 people with me. There's no escalation of pvp. I can't stock up on pots and genies and work out a strategy to put up a fight. I can't even be like "HURR DURR credit card swipe HURR DURR" because it doesn't matter how much defense I have, i'll still die in under 5 seconds. My only option is simply to stop playing the game. WHERE THE *** IS THE FUN IN THAT?.

I used to enjoy running lower lvl or lesser - geared people through instances like FC and watching them enjoy how I can DB an entire wave of mobs in only a few seconds. Now it's just a joke. The goodwill is there, but why bring a +10 lunar wiz when some random APS sin is 3x faster than me?

Did I make my wiz only to become a TW bot? That is the only thing caster classes have in this game now.

Tynne - Lost City

Hi Im Tynne. I rolled a sin. Yes we are OP and are indeed in need of a serious nerf... k thanks bye...b:bye

Silchas_ruin - Dreamweaver

Do sins make this game more fun?
Not in any way.

Haza - Heavens Tear

Well sins have changed our aspect and how we play the game, the real problem is the lack of content, which only lasts roughly a week by then almost every has got it, (remember rank sale >.>)

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Haza - Heavens Tear wrote: »

which only lasts roughly a week by then almost every has got it, (remember rank sale >.>)

PWE : " We introduce the new rank 9 gears as new game content."
Player : " Wow, a new harder goal to reach !! "

PWE : " But not just that . . "
Player : " Hm . . . ?? "

PWE : " We also has sale for reputation badge, so don't miss it. "

Player : " (b:shocked) "

Great strategy, really great strategy. Just genius, bravo. (b:chuckle)

Longknife - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Endgame the only class with even a chance against a sin is a psychic due to very high DEF lvl from white voodoo, psychich will, and empowered vigor, and soul of silence.


The rest are just sin food. When a barb with 30k hp buffed with full JoSD (full R9 barb) gets taken down in 8 seconds charmed, something is wrong.

Which is odd, because it seems only logical that 1 class out of 9 being able to beat another class is just ridiculous. The good part is at least that a Psy can function as an anti-sin for an entire squad: stun if they forget maze steps, soulburn if they remember it.

The good news is that at least Seekers seem good at fighting sins. Mystics do too so far, but something tells me that won't last once sins get used to fighting them. Right now most of them get pushed back and attempt to run back to the Mystic manually, like the tards that they are.

Abstractive - Archosaur

So this 'sin walks into a bar. Bartender asks: "Why the long face ?"

"This is me smiling, jackass."

/joke

If this made you LOL, then yes, 'sins do make the game more fun. If it didn't...well that's too bad, because we just don't care.

sig1043a

I think PWI initially killed PvP by adding HP charms. Basically it forced the devs to allow players to be able to kill each other within 10 seconds, yay, fun. Being able to 1-shot other players (including the "tanks") is another sure way to make PvP pointless. Finally, any game with a cash shop that gives huge PvE/PvP equipment and player bonuses (rank gear, refines, excessive xp boosts, etc) is bound to have unfair PvP.

About the only cash shop games that allow for fair play are the ones where the cash shop is for game content (zones), non-game breaking items such as xp boosts that help but aren't going to make you level 12-14 times faster, and non(or minimal)-game affecting items (fashion and mounts).

When a game is pay to win, you can be sure that PvP is not going to be fun for most players.

HeavensRage - Raging Tide

sig1043a wrote: »

I think PWI initially killed PvP by adding HP charms. Basically it forced the devs to allow players to be able to kill each other within 10 seconds.

lolwut?