Balancing of the game

Constrnation - Dreamweaver

force stealth should be taken off or at least it should work against mobs only, and not for PKing
it's annoying... for example:
i was about LVL 90 w/ my BM and i was fighting against a LVL 100 sin
i was about to kill him, i was casting Drake's Ray.. then he stealthed and appeared using demon spark, that's rly unfair <->
it's also annoying that u're unable to see a sin that is 10LVLs lower than u

and bramble should work on PvP.. or SoV shouldn't either work

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »

Headhunt - 2 Spark for 6 seconds stun 30 second cooldown v.s Bm aoe stun for 6 second 35 Chi with 15 seconds cool down

Powerdash - 2 spark for 40% increase in crit for 8 second

Subsea strike- 2 spark aoe debuff for 30% for 8 seconds 30 second cool down

Throatcut - 1 spark silence for 4 second 8 second cool down

Maze Step - 1 spark immunity against stun ,pause and sleep for 10 second 100% running speed 90 second cool down

Shadow Teleport - 1 spark 3 second stun 180 seconds cool down

Shadow Jump - 30 chi teleport to nearest target within 30 meter

Deepsting - 50 chi to sleep for 5 second 15 second cool down

lets do this math for u guys
2+2+2+1+1+1+.3+.5 = almost 10 spark

4 Moves gives us chi 2 spark + 1 spark + 150 chi + 50 chi

We still have to use your sparks if we are triple spark + skills so we use more than any other class we just gain back quickly but almost all our good skills need sparks.

And what's your point? Everyone's "good" skills require chi.

Here let me help you:

3 Wizard aoes: 2 sparks each

Dragon's Breath: 1 spark

Wellspring Quaff: 1 spark 30 minute buff

Shields: 30 chi 15 minute buff

Total sparks 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + .3 = 8.3 sparks

Our chi skills give us.... oh that's right... we don't have any.

I know exactly what you'll say:

"But you're not suppose to use all your skills at once"

Well maybe you shouldn't expect to be able to use all your's at once either

P.S. Headhunt can't be compared to BM's stun, last time I checked Headhunt did some serious damage where as Roar = 0 damage.

Adroit - Lost City

LOL at all these sins trying to say they are even somewhat balanced.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

anyone heard of absolute domain?

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

anyone heard of absolute domain?

Ever heard of cooldown?

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ever heard of cooldown?

ever heard of blinding sand or apo pots




Edit:trolling

SilentGodai - Lost City

I am sorry not everyone to my eyes are 5.0 rich sins with +12 weapon cause thats what you guys are QQ about. Maybe if you play your own sin you will understand our pain and suffering.

Also almost all the thing you said are aoe how many aoes do sin have . 2!! Why are you people arguing so much when we cant kill people in group fight. Sins = 1 vs 1 the other person dies no question asked. To kill a sin gang him and stun lock him

Cheze - Lost City

it should be implemented so that the closer you are to someone while in stealth the less lvl advantage you need to see the sin. for example if a sin is right on top of you, you should gain detection level bonus on that sin.

or just take away stealth for the lulz

TigerLily - Lost City

SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »

Headhunt - 2 Spark for 6 seconds stun 30 second cooldown v.s Bm aoe stun for 6 second 35 Chi with 15 seconds cool down

Powerdash - 2 spark for 40% increase in crit for 8 second

Subsea strike- 2 spark aoe debuff for 30% for 8 seconds 30 second cool down

Throatcut - 1 spark silence for 4 second 8 second cool down

Maze Step - 1 spark immunity against stun ,pause and sleep for 10 second 100% running speed 90 second cool down

Shadow Teleport - 1 spark 3 second stun 180 seconds cool down

Shadow Jump - 30 chi teleport to nearest target within 30 meter

Deepsting - 50 chi to sleep for 5 second 15 second cool down

lets do this math for u guys
2+2+2+1+1+1+.3+.5 = almost 10 spark

4 Moves gives us chi 2 spark + 1 spark + 150 chi + 50 chi

We still have to use your sparks if we are triple spark + skills so we use more than any other class we just gain back quickly but almost all our good skills need sparks.

LMAO, all classes needs chi for the good stuff. But you dont see wizards going oh noes my class needs 8 sparks so we can Essential Sutra + Mountain's Seize + Blade Tempest + Ice Dragon on people without channeling for 6 sec.

Best skills needs loads of chi, but that doesn't mean only 1 class should have an endless supply of sparks so they can use everything they want.

Sins get like 5 sparks from Inner harmony, Rising Dragon, Shadow Escape and Tackling, its to much. The interval itself gives even more chi. Sins never ending supply of chi gives them the freedom to kinda randomly pick a "creative" pvp-combo without having to think much about details lol. Its stupid.

Riyunoa - Sanctuary

Just to clarify that Soulforce skills are not as OP as some may think.

In PvE they're great, but the thing is that in PvP they're not so good, Soul of Vengeance doesn't reflect full dmg, having 13k (or around that) of Soulforce means that your Soul of Vengeance should reflect about 1.3-1.4k, but when you're atacked by a player in will reflect only about 100 to 60 dmg, no kidding, i've been in TW and that's what it reflects when archers attack me.

Soulburn should do dmg equal to the your Soulforce, if that was the case in TW/PvP/Duels everyone who atacks you would get one shoted, using again 13k of Soulforce, when you cast Soulburn in someone it'll deal about 1k to 1.2k when they atack, if it's an Archer/Cleric/Veno/Wiz, you won't do a lot of dmg because their skills take some time to be casted or the channel is long; if it's a 4.0/5.0 Aps of course they'll take a lot of dmg, but what character with 4.0/5.0 aps is stupid enough to atack while having Soulburn?
And Soulburn is not instant, when it hits the target a lot of pink skulls appear...and what i mean, it's clear when someone does have the skill.

So the ones who say, why isn't Soul of vengeace nerfed in PvP?, because even if it's a reflective skill the amount of dmg is a fixed amount based on Soulforce, and not a percentage like Bramble, which reflects 60% of Physical dmg.
Also Soul of vengeance is not a free buff, it takes mana (Unless it's sage) per hit, and can be casted only in 1 player until the buff disappears; meanwhile Bramble can be casted whenever you want in anyone you want.

Psychics are for sure powerful, Black voodoo gives us more dmg, but at the same time it weakens our defense, magical and physical. White voodoo makes us more resistant, but our dmg suck then.

The only way to make Soulforce OP, is with refines. How do you get high refines?, with Cash of course; and let me tell you, every class is OP with cash!. If you have cash and you still suck, it's your fault by not knowing how to play your class.

TL:DR .- Soulforce is not as OP as some say, everyone is OP with Cash.

SilentGodai - Lost City

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

LMAO, all classes needs chi for the good stuff. But you dont see wizards going oh noes my class needs 8 sparks so we can Essential Sutra + Mountain's Seize + Blade Tempest + Ice Dragon on people without channeling for 6 sec.

Best skills needs loads of chi, but that doesn't mean only 1 class should have an endless supply of sparks so they can use everything they want.

Sins get like 5 sparks from Inner harmony, Rising Dragon, Shadow Escape and Tackling, its to much. The interval itself gives even more chi. Sins never ending supply of chi gives them the freedom to kinda randomly pick a "creative" pvp-combo without having to think much about details lol. Its stupid.

I am sorry if its too hard for you to understand. Almost all our frigging skill needs chi not you guys. Let see Rising Dragon, Tackling Slash, Ribstrike ,Slipstream Strike and ,Knife throw , All with more than 15 seconds cool down except ribstrike and slipstream at 6 to 8. Your telling me to use our damn skill when we dont have one other things that cost chi and very long skill.

So when you see cash shoppers get + 12 5.0 you call us OP.

Sorry truth hurts real non op sin doesnt hurt but its your cash shopped ones so is you have a problem with that take it with cash shoppers not the actual class.

tidustheswordwarrior

speaking of knockback skills, what bout the two bm skills tht have knockback to em. not to mention the psys only knockback skill too. i also think that the wizard needs to have two other buffs tht they can give to other players such as (flame,pyro,torch,) blade, (stone, earth) blade and any other fire/earth names that would make two other buffs, giving either additional fire or earth dmg to a players weapon. It would be also interesting for a bm and archer to have another buff to give in a squad that would increase their performance. plus what bout the sins raving slash skill that is like totally useless. try redoing tht dmg skill tht will give a different affect such as the following ideas (increased atk rate, crit rate, threat lvl, and or decrease a targets phys atk, mag atk, hp, evasion, and etc. i also think tht the sins deaden nerves skill should be redone too cause all it does each time it gets lvled up is an increase in mp usage. not to mention keeping it at 20% recovery when near death. seems to me that this skill is useless in pve and mostly used in pvp when probably not to many sins are goin to enter into pvp less they get talked into doin it or wanna do it for the fun of it. idk if this post should be here but im just adding other skills tht have the knockback affect, plus the wizard class tht has only one buff that can be given to other players. most of it is my own thinking so comment on any part of it

Quilue - Sanctuary

SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »

I am sorry if its too hard for you to understand. Almost all our frigging skill needs chi not you guys. Let see Rising Dragon, Tackling Slash, Ribstrike ,Slipstream Strike and ,Knife throw , All with more than 15 seconds cool down except ribstrike and slipstream at 6 to 8. Your telling me to use our damn skill when we dont have one other things that cost chi and very long skill.

So when you see cash shoppers get + 12 5.0 you call us OP.

Sorry truth hurts real non op sin doesnt hurt but its your cash shopped ones so is you have a problem with that take it with cash shoppers not the actual class.

How many non-chi skills do BMs, archers, actually use to kill people with?

Maybe a couple useful ones like Farstrike, Axe AOEs, Shadowless Kick, probably cast cancel Cyclone Heal. For archers, Stun, Take Aim, STA, and 2 metal skills...The rest are all chi skills and both classes use physical attacks primarily anyway. Why are you asserting that you are somehow different? Why do you need to spam skills when you have higher base damage and could have the same attack speed as a fist BM?

Sorry you can't reach fast attack speeds or hurt opponents even with lol8 sale and Jone's Bless. Maybe you hypered too fast and is using TT60s

SilentGodai - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

How many non-chi skills do BMs, archers, actually use to kill people with?

Maybe a couple useful ones like Farstrike, Axe AOEs, Shadowless Kick, probably cast cancel Cyclone Heal. For archers, Stun, Take Aim, STA, and 2 metal skills...The rest are all chi skills and both classes use physical attacks primarily anyway. Why are you asserting that you are somehow different? Why do you need to spam skills when you have higher base damage and could have the same attack speed as a fist BM?

Sorry you can't reach fast attack speeds or hurt opponents even with lol8 sale and Jone's Bless. Maybe you hypered too fast and is using TT60s

I swear its like you people are blind or something. I am only stating the fact that sins skills arent OP because we are just like everybody like you said yourself. Its certain skills that makes us abusive with our high attack speed.

Which means the problem is high attack rate per second not skill themselves. I can destroy any LA class to AA but i cannot kill HA fast enough which is what a normal sin cant do unless he/she is OverPowered.

So i am just stating to what Opening Poster said that its not really the sin that is op it the attack speed interval ****. We might a slight benefit to spark more using chi skill.

Instead of pulling the trigger fast towards read what i been saying for the past few pages.

I agree a sin is not suppose to destroy a barb but that same thing goes to any class with + 12 5.0 weapon whether it be a bm or archer or barb 5.0 + 12. Not just sin that is all i am saying .

All this hate is only due to reason we have stealth i guaranteed you if sins did not have stealth to begin with no one would be having this stupid conversation


Edit:

To save you all the trouble , just get stealth detection pot and if your same level as the sin pop it you can see him drop him or her otherwise gang them

Rice_hero - Lost City

Any Class is OP w/ no life farming/ cash shopping. <-- everyone understands this right?

Sins will 97% of the time win in a one vs one situation (they are called Assassins for a reason), maybe even 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 but think about it, Group pvp/ TW? One attack will bring you out of stealth, <--- when a sin is most vulnerable (Sin's are 1-3 shots),(still will be easy to kill for a 3.33 base aps dd in a matter of seconds whether you're full+10 or not) or (guaranteed dead if you're stunned/ganked). If anyone in your squad looked after you, they should be able to kill him before he escapes even if he did kill you. If he lived, maybe you need more practice?, it's not impossible. Don't forget sins can only do one super attack one at a time (stealth cool down) If they've already used their shadow escape, they'll run for the regular non-combat stealth skill (which takes quite a bit of time to go out of combat mode), there's your chance to get em good? this makes them have to wait for the next move while Wizzies/Psychics/Archers can relentlessly spam aoe skill that when combined takes out a crowd easily. A lot of the time, a sin's main priority is to take out a super dd/ep from the opposing side. An Easy defense against a sin is to spread out so that he can't aoe, but stay close enough to where you'll be able to attack/stun him, another sin from your team can easily stun/take him out (30-35meter shadow jump, shadow teleport + Occult Ice/HeadHunt/w/e stun. Always keep apot. pots & genie skills ready for a sin. <--If you like to pvp so much? why not be prepared? But, all these unbalanced b.s. is mainly looking towards the truly end game sins with +10~12 NV 1st,2nd cast zerk, Rank 9 daggers. Of course someone who has way better gears/refines who has that kind of money to waste in a game is going to be by far superior, but the game isn't unbalanced enough to be where it'll be impossible to kill them.

5.0 Sin's were nearly impossible to most of the people who played the game until PW had a rank 8/9 sale which gave a bunch of no name sins & alt sins come out of nowhere w/ rank 8 top w/ their main's already farmed nv dagger = instant 5.0 w/out a 200m+ tome. Which also gave cs/farmers the ability to become a r.8 or even r.9 character. Rank 9 > 5.00 Sin in terms of overall gameplay except the sin would have a better time farming *BUT* if you got your "insert any other class here" to it's op status today, that probably means you're an awesome merchant, grinding machine, or maybe you had an alt that farms all that $ for you already. With all that money you have, you could also easily build up a decent farming/pvp sin. For anyone whose been playing this game for a long time now, especially those who can farm gold hh matts should know that 5.0 isn't that hard to get, It just takes dedication & time.

& Ofcourse Sin's skills can allow some amazing DPH but seriously, how many sins do you think there are in your server that can really 1 shot a whole crowd through a charm? From Lost City, I can only think of 2 that does it in pvp( probably more though), 5~8 that can pull it off, but for the majority (probably 90% of sins) everyone else prefers to rely on DPS in pvp). Look at all them demon assassins!. Heck! a lot of them probably doesn't even care/ bother about combining useful skills to make good dph. Although, its useful in some situations, how many 3.33/4.0 based sins do you see running around w/ chill of deep up?

Btw, Seekers Looks like an anti-sin class while, mystic looks like anti-psychic?. Maybe you'll soon see a thread made by sins QQ~ing about how imbalanced the Earthgaurd classes are after everyone rerolls a sin? b:laugh

Also, The new instances probably won't be mainly boss based & probably involves new somewhat better gear, yeah, that's right, now anyone can farm here w/out the endless world chats of "LF more 5.0 DD's" Even if so, whether 5.0 or not, good guildies & friend's will take their friends/guildies on decent runs atleast once in a while.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Must - Lost City wrote: »

Why dont want to flame but is you dont like you why are you still here???

In English please. b:surrender

Susamajii - Lost City

Okay there was way too much to quote of these idiot sins posting so I'm just gonna add this.

Sins get these ridiculous buffs that can't be purged, which makes no sense at all. I will say maybe the psychic buff not being purged makes sense because it's cooldown is 10 minutes and it doesn't go away even if you log off.

Tidal Protection: The most BS skill I have ever even heard of. 66% chance to resist all debuffs (if they are sage). That means a skill like demon roar of the pride which is 100% successful unless they are anti-stunned will miss 66% of the time and believe me, this happens quite alot. Okay so the sin pops up you see they are not anti stunned, you use your demon roar of the pride that should get them! Oh wait, this *** buff resisted it ok you are now paralyzed you leep back from them. They blink to you, you're like oh shet ok I will just use smack to seal them. WTF is this? I see them take 2k dmg but they are not sealed god damn this stupid *** buff. Oh look headhunt I are dead now.

Focused Mind: Not nearly as *** as the previously stated buff but nonetheless, stupid as hell. 33% chance to take 1 damage from ANY attack (if they are sage). Hello I am a mage I see a sin attacking my squad mate, sins are squishy and weak to me I will roflpwn him. Ok gush hit him for 7k crit look no more deaden nerves. *Channels BIDS* WTF I HIT HIM FOR 1? Sin noticed the dragon, tele stun and wtfpwn the mage...*forces stealth*. /trollface.

also @whoever the idiot was that said leveling deaden nerves does nothing. Leveling it lowers the cooldown time, imbecile.

Adroit - Lost City

Sins have by far the highest dps in game, high DPH (w/ and w/o zerk), best stun lock of any class, by far the best chi building of any class, anti one shot buff, buff to make damage do 1 or resist effects.. unkitable (not 1, but two instant teleports), and to top it off they have stealth which ensures they always get the first hit and carry around their own personal safezone everywhere they go. Ya sins are perfectly balanced with the other classes. I don't even want to mention pve.. as sins rule that as well

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Rice_hero - Lost City wrote: »

wallotext

I understand bias, I can't understand stupid.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I understand bias, I can't understand stupid.

Rice_hero rolled Sin because every moron can play sin and has guarantee kill other player without effort. That's why they will defend their class, because without OP skill they would need to know how to play class. Not just click on OP spells.

Lalius - Lost City

Ok, I gotta say this here and now, since I read too much sin QQ in this thread. All sins out there: You have absolutely no right to complain, not the slightest. It has a reason that the only players that say sins are balanced are sins.

The moment I first realized the full imbalance was when I was able to kill a cleric friend of mine with far far better gear than me. He was lvl 100, I was lvl 90 using H&T Daggers +4... He used apoth, domain, all his defensive skills and I only had to throw in an Occult Ice here and there. He couldn't do anything. And he usually does fine against other classes, also against better geared players. And no that's not because I am pro, stunlocking as a sin takes absolutely NO skill, far less than on a bm for sure. Oh and I wasn't even using shadow escape out of personal disguest.

Now I am at 5 aps and I do not even PVP anymore, cause it's just easy mode. You walk around, no one can see you, you pick your target, attack and kill. If it does not work for some reason you just escape. Only thing you have to fear is gank and higher level sins lol. Or far better geared players... Usually the fact that you even NEED shadow escape in a one on one shows that you do something wrong.. I mean, if the other player domains your initial attack you just made him waste his full genie stamina. Some wizards use a two spark aoe + sleep with 2 min cooldown just to force someone to domain. You can do it with a simple stun from stealth.

Frankly I only use this char for farming/PVE now and rerolled a wizard for PVP because I feel cheap every single time I attack someone from stealth.

Hhlolz - Harshlands

Many people on harshlands who never really succeeded at pvp on their mains rerolled to sin. funny thing is they became big baddies because they can ''pwn'' non-fish classes now with paralyze/stun/occult ice+auto attack, do have to agree that im getting so butthurt every day.. sins are just TOO OP.

and why the hell shouldnt we be able to purge psychic and assassins buffs? thats a ****** joke.

why do sins not pop out of spark when sparking? thats also a big joke, how about give all non-sins a +11 weap for free so we can permanently attack with 2 spark dmg as well.

delete inner harmony skill.

reduce the chance of getting seal when hitting psys, to me it looks like its 95% chance to seal and thats with the psy having just +7 r8.

make the shadow escape cost a spark instead of giving a spark.


why am i writing all this anyway, not like GMs/devs would read thiss... and they dont even care that fishes are OP

MageFizban - Lost City

Hhlolz - Harshlands wrote: »

reduce the chance of getting seal when hitting psys, to me it looks like its 95% chance to seal and thats with the psy having just +7 r8.

Equipment grade doesn't matter for seal %, just refines. And with a +7 wep at ~lvl 100 his seal should be near 10%. Your math is just bad. Or you're just unlucky. But most likely both.

Susamajii - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Equipment grade doesn't matter for seal %, just refines. And with a +7 wep at ~lvl 100 his seal should be near 10%. Your math is just bad. Or you're just unlucky. But most likely both.

Trying to kill LuuXun with claws = impossible unless you immune the seal lol. +12 rank 9 +10full rank 9 armor. Or just do what I did and one shot him with dragons. XD

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Rice_hero - Lost City wrote: »

Sins will 97% of the time win in a one vs one situation (they are called Assassins for a reason), maybe even 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 but think about it, Group pvp/ TW?

^ You know what this just said?

"Unless you have 3+ people on your side, odds are the sin will win"

Now think about for a moment...

Also, no, people aren't just complaining about CS'd sins, everyone understands "Yeah you're screwed if they're CS'd"

But one of the original complaints about sins was "They take less cashshopping than any other class to be effective in PvP." Am I the only one that remembers this?

I think a lot of sins think they need APS to kill people because that's all they hear about. The average sin I run across thinks Chill of the Deep is just a skill to not take agro. But it's really there to make that skill from stealth hit like a freaking brick.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

I am DaKillanator, and I approve of this thread

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

extra post, because I was at 666 posts and I felt uncomfortable b:avoid

oyamajio

LMFAO, so funny, I keep seeing the stuffs that I've posted and discussed months ago keep coming back and forth, like this one 6 months ago. Search my posts you'll find many relevant stuffs. Good luck.

Badburton - Lost City

Bump.

SilentGodai - Lost City

Again learn about the class before you QQ this is directly at the OP. Sins call be purged i dont know who you are fighting but sins can be purged only psychics cant be purged.

Also 66% of tidal protection is for sage and how many sage sin they are in the game close 5 or less . Demon get 50% tidal protection and 10% focus mind. Focus mind sage 33% chance to get 1dmg demon 25% chance same as regular skill. Its heads or tails it will miss or work. If we are using tidal protection than we cannot use focus mind vice versa.

Let see what barbs can do lets turtle in tiger form and switch to human form with anti stun. Now we take 90% less damage.

Bms got nothing that hurts but anti stun and marrows for everything. , cleric maybe plume shell and super long sleep, Veno has immunity from all damage for 5 to 6 seconds. Wizards got nothing special, archers have a super long range. Psychics are overpowered with their skills to immune physical damage and other skill nice skills.

I admit sins are breaking the game but stop being so biased we are not the only one with epic skills other classes has it too.

You guys are just making sin sound very broken than they are. If you cant kill a sin its primary reason is stealth alone. Otherwise if you cant kill a sin not in stealth you just need to quit the game period.

Also Occult ice this and that . Sorry to inform you not a sin skill but a genie so everyone can use it. If you are stunned there is a remove stun skill for genie also. Immunity pots so on and so forth.

When a sin triple sparks and tele stun you got exactly 3 second to re-act before you die or live.

I have nothing against bring back skill you guys suggest but saying sins are the only overpowered is a total bull ****