Balancing of the game

Fleuri - Sanctuary

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

If sins had some hidden flaws/weakness during 1v1 pvp and pve, it would have been found out by now. There really is none, beside sins being dead meat if they're found by a higher lvl assassin outside of sz.

Actually, they do have other weaknesses, in some contexts (like TW).

Ruxal - Harshlands

After lvl 90 balance goes through the window. 3.33 aps anything and sins officially own PWI. I'm playing a dead/dying class. Also if youre a wiz u get accustomed to getting kicked in favor of aps players. Thaks PWI you excel at making wizards irrelevant. Yippee for seekers whose AOE makes db irrelevat as well.

Seriously just delete wizzies from server since you hate us so bad. And no I don't want to play any other class cause I like wizzies.

Quilue - Sanctuary

^

This man has not discovered Jone's Blessing R8. You're not even lvl 100, what sort of instances are you getting kicked from? FCC? TT 2-x? BH79?

Do you not know that anyone with serious -int gears are probably lvl 99 or above? Complaining at lvl 90 really?

Ruxal - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

^

This man has not discovered Jone's Blessing R8

Have Jones and 200k + rep, as you see I'm only level 90. Also I know in PvP we are good. Right now I do pretty well in PvP with just tt90 wep and rank armor. What I'm saying is that PvE wise I get kicked in favor of sins or anything that screams 3.33 aps or higher. Even amongst the players there is a clearly defined class bias.

Anyone with a brain knows the game is severely imbalanced.

AbdulK - Lost City

Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »

Now I will give one last idea in balancing the Assassin class specifically, and for the record I was discussing this with one of the top 3 sins on Lost City server (hint: he is 104) and he agreed completely that his class NEEDS to be nerfed. Now here is the idea..

imo i think that nerfing aps on sins would game it more inbalanced coz once the sins r nerfd most would go for r9 weapon or nv daggers 2nd cast with zerk or something crazy + if aps get nerfed then fishies will turn sage.

and talking from experience sage sins hurt more then demon sins.

r9+10 sage sin( who knows what skills to use) is scarier then a 5aps sin.

but thats just what i think


( **** my spelling)

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

AbdulK - Lost City wrote: »

imo i think that nerfing aps on sins would game it more inbalanced coz once the sins r nerfd most would go for r9 weapon or nv daggers 2nd cast with zerk or something crazy + if aps get nerfed then fishies will turn sage.

and talking from experience sage sins hurt more then demon sins.

r9+10 sage sin( who knows what skills to use) is scarier then a 5aps sin.

but thats just what i think


( **** my spelling)

Did Susamajii say nerf aps ? b:bye

Vongola_X - Lost City

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

After lvl 90 balance goes through the window. 3.33 aps anything and sins officially own PWI. I'm playing a dead/dying class. Also if youre a wiz u get accustomed to getting kicked in favor of aps players. Thaks PWI you excel at making wizards irrelevant. Yippee for seekers whose AOE makes db irrelevat as well.

Seriously just delete wizzies from server since you hate us so bad. And no I don't want to play any other class cause I like wizzies.

My thoughts exactly, the only reason i chose wiz when i made my acc 1 year ago was because they became the best DD 90+ but after sin came wizes are just getting fked over. We're squishy and weak early game and ***** by sins late game now aswell as they are better DDs. PWI realy loves to **** us wiz's over b:angry

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Way to keep living in the past, seriously go look at a calendar its 2011 and Tideborn expansion was in 2009 <_<

Um Tideborn came out in like Early 2010 (maybe late 2009) o.o;

But yeah I agree with the rest of your post.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

I'll tell you what's really broken. The company.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'll tell you what's really broken. The company.

The company is Over Powered ? Not Blizzard or NcSoft ? Or Bluehole . . or squareenix . . ?
Maybe nexon, DACN, Gravity, IMC, Webzen, Disney, Jagex, YNK, Koei ?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Can people please stop referring to tideborns as new classes. Sins + psys have been out for way over 1 year already. If i have to read 1 more post about "assassin is a new class and you just need to find the right strategy to beat them" i will probably puke. Way to keep living in the past, seriously go look at a calendar its 2011 and Tideborn expansion was in 2009 <_<

If sins had some hidden flaws/weakness during 1v1 pvp and pve, it would have been found out by now. There really is none, beside sins being dead meat if they're found by a higher lvl assassin outside of sz.

Earthguard is the new race with new classes btw if anyone actually missed that.

So true.

Naivety - Harshlands

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The company is Over Powered ? Not Blizzard or NcSoft ? Or Bluehole . . or squareenix . . ?
Maybe nexon, DACN, Gravity, IMC, Webzen, Disney, Jagex, YNK, Koei ?

Google now has your post tied to SO MANY COMPANY NAME SEARCHES. b:chuckle

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

Google now has your post tied to SO MANY COMPANY NAME SEARCHES. b:chuckle

Ha ha . . so true . . b:surrender b:shocked

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Um Tideborn came out in like Early 2010 (maybe late 2009) o.o;

But yeah I agree with the rest of your post.

Early December 2009 actually. (I think it was December 6 or 9 or something like that.)

Naivety - Harshlands

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ha ha . . so true . . b:surrender b:shocked

I genuinely thought it was a spambot at first xD

---Ontopic. Sins arnt OP, 4/5APS is. (srsly, take the 4APS off the sin and they can only do what youd expect, **** robes, deal with LA and struggle with HA that isnt really stupid).

Gavroche - Lost City

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

I genuinely thought it was a spambot at first xD

---Ontopic. Sins arnt OP, 4/5APS is. (srsly, take the 4APS off the sin and they can only do what youd expect, **** robes, deal with LA and struggle with HA that isnt really stupid).

All I have to say is Stealth + headhunt vs arcanes = dead squishy on the ground...
Sins are op just like psy (I play a psy) and I know some of the skills I use are truely op (ie soulburn vs a 4/5 aps player.) However, it would seem unlike you im not in denial.

Regenbogen - Lost City

Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »

Well tbh I haven't read any of the threads on this forum in many months, but seeing as I am completely bored at the moment, I figured no harm in making a thread before i log off. Now this might be the wrong area to post the thread but who cares really? These ideas may also have already been stated elsewhere but as I stated, I don't read these forums anymore.

Now what most people at least on my server are sick of besides pretty much everything in the game, is the imbalance between APS and everything else, moreover just an imbalance between sins and.. everything else.

Now you can't really do what is needed which would be completely removing tideborns from existence, seeing as Assassins are probably your single greatest money making abomination next to packs. So let me throw out an idea or two that might help in balancing them out with the rest of the game.

1. Make reflect skills work in PVP. (IE: Bramble, Bramble Hood, Demon Roar, Alpha Male, Reflective Aura, etc.) What does this do? Well for starters let's see a sin triple spark on a BM and try to kill him when he is brambled. 90% of these sins will drop over dead before they even bypass the charm. Or let's see them try to kill a veno through bramble hood (yes they can do this, and easily) they would die in 2 seconds trying this **** which they shouldn't be able to do in the first place.

2. Make KNOCKBACK skills work in pvp. Now I use to play a game that I won't mention the name of but in that game knockback was possibly the most OP annoying BS ever but that was because it was implemented on every attack of the archer class due to the bow they used. Now just using knockback skills (IE: mage phoenix, archer knockback arrow/knockback aoe, barb slam, etc) these skills have a cool-down so this will not be as broken as the example i gave. What would this do? Well sins are a melee class knocking them back means they can't hit you at least for a short period of time.

((**EDIT**: This would also require a change in the definition of anti-stun to make it resistant to knockback as well as other movement impairments))

These are just two ideas I thought of about balancing the game in general. Now I will give one last idea in balancing the Assassin class specifically, and for the record I was discussing this with one of the top 3 sins on Lost City server (hint: he is 104) and he agreed completely that his class NEEDS to be nerfed. Now here is the idea..

*Change the Forced Stealth skill to costing 1 spark to use instead of giving one spark when you use it.

Simple enough, no?

Well I really have nothing else to add atm. Flame on.

thanks susa b:thanks

i'd like to add some things about psychics which needs to be changed:

1. reflect buff can't be purged

2. soulburn can't be purified and also its activating when using defensive/genie skills


poll/discussion about knockback in pvp from 6month ago:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=909792 b:surrender

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

poll/discussion about knockback in pvp from 6month ago:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=909792 b:surrender

make me remember these post . . b:bye

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good job everyone, now we only need to make developer agree to these and start working on it. b:victory

Susamajii - Lost City

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Can people please stop referring to tideborns as new classes. Sins + psys have been out for way over 1 year already. If i have to read 1 more post about "assassin is a new class and you just need to find the right strategy to beat them" i will probably puke. Way to keep living in the past, seriously go look at a calendar its 2011 and Tideborn expansion was in 2009 <_<

If sins had some hidden flaws/weakness during 1v1 pvp and pve, it would have been found out by now. There really is none, beside sins being dead meat if they're found by a higher lvl assassin outside of sz.

Earthguard is the new race with new classes btw if anyone actually missed that.

I love you TigerLily. Miss you too b:cry

Naivety - Harshlands

Gavroche - Lost City wrote: »

All I have to say is Stealth + headhunt vs arcanes = dead squishy on the ground...
Sins are op just like psy (I play a psy) and I know some of the skills I use are truely op (ie soulburn vs a 4/5 aps player.) However, it would seem unlike you im not in denial.

So trying to cut the head off of someone in cloth armor shouldnt be a oneshot? Uh..... gtfo please. Im not denying anything. Sins themselves are not OP. Seriously. Try playing one, you might figre it out. Its the easy access to 5aps combined with stealth that is rigging OP.


---Anyone who doesnt thinks the mage archtype shouldnt be oneshottable by the rogue archtype has some issues with the idea of pros and cons.

You ever seen a strong wizard wipe 10+ people at once with 1/2 spells? Be thankful sins cant do that.

---The thing you should be complaining about is being able to take the Tank types out in a matter of moments, THAT is whats broken.

Added bonus. Unless you have a particularly strong set of daggers, few good mages are oneshots at 10x, where PvP gets interesting.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

So trying to cut the head off of someone in cloth armor shouldnt be a oneshot? Uh..... gtfo please. Im not denying anything. Sins themselves are not OP. Seriously. Try playing one, you might figre it out. Its the easy access to 5aps combined with stealth that is rigging OP.


---Anyone who doesnt thinks the mage archtype shouldnt be oneshottable by the rogue archtype has some issues with the idea of pros and cons.

You ever seen a strong wizard wipe 10+ people at once with 1/2 spells? Be thankful sins cant do that.

---The thing you should be complaining about is being able to take the Tank types out in a matter of moments, THAT is whats broken.

Added bonus. Unless you have a particularly strong set of daggers, few good mages are oneshots at 10x, where PvP gets interesting.

I think this sums in up

Naivety - Harshlands

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think this sums in up

Hahahaha b:chuckle

MageFizban - Lost City

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

You ever seen a strong wizard wipe 10+ people at once with 1/2 spells? Be thankful sins cant do that.

Sins CAN do that.

Masuna - Harshlands

Forget sins, aps, forced stealth, nix bleed and all the rest i want wings of grace to be free or cheaper ( it wipes out speed buff anyway, so its harder to kite). also i want to be able to use dags for pve. and also before i forget... FIX THE RUBBERBANDING IM TIRED OF IT kthxbai b:surrender

Frostcicle - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Sins CAN do that.

...your a psychic not a assassin, so how does your screenshot make any sense to what you just said?

Blade_aether - Lost City

Olbaze is a filthy zealot who definitely rerolled sin because he did his 'math' and saw that nothing else stood a chance.

OP? Sure, unkillable, nah.

Today I Solid Sheild'd and Invoked against SolidSnake, and he LITERALLY killed me through invoke in roughly 3-5 seconds. It was 1v1.

Now I suppose if you spend thousands of dollars, you should be reaping your own benefits, but perhaps that is that dire cause.

Maybe if PWE took time to correct the old and outdated rather than flash us with the new and shiny...

What about mana upkeep?

Make stealth a super high upkeep, like BB, so they need a charm just to stay in stealth momentarily, it prevents them from staying in stealth, and if they are low on mana when the pop force stealth, the upkeep will pop them back out.

This should also make it harder to triple spark and force stealth, just to pop out and use head hunt after inner harmony.

Treat is as more of a negative incentive? So that using stealth is a less favorable resort? Perhaps 600-700 mana a second?

Also, literally halving their damage would make me happy, but that would not be fair.

-int gear should have a linear basis, not one where the more you have = The better it gets.

I say keep 5.0, for PVE and farming, makes it useful, effective, quick, efficient...

For PVP, TW, Tournie etc, how about 3 APS? (Haven't thought of the repercussions.)

WHAT IS INNER HARMONY? MASTER LI'S ON STEROIDS? Literally, give every class the skill, or remove it entirely. I apologize for the strong reaction, but the Archer 100 skill has a 15 minute cooldown, and takes 20 chrono pages. Why should this be any different? That and getting chi on a demon archer is not easy at best.

Seriously though.

Before sins get their big ol' nerf, PWE... Fix the old and broken.

Don't bury us with new content before we even have a chance to figure out how the old is broken.

Skill descriptions, server lag in frosts, random rubber banding when jumping, my brain... They all need a second look, and a fix.


Blade_Aether
Nostalgic for when Susa would cuddle.

Obly - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

What would also happen with this is that all of the close range classes would be pretty much useless in group PvP: just bramble all of your party and anyone who attacks you from close range dies, unless they purify you. Not to mention that there would be people who would level venomancer alts just to bramble their mains, which would cause even more problems.

Hmm, when bramble still worked, BM;s had no Problem with Bramble or bramblehood, hood is basically like invoke, just kite. Bramble is only deadly when you use fists against them, and the damage reflection is something that can be surpassed quite fast if you use hard hitting single attack skills. So from what you said, i recon you haven;t gotten much expirience with bramble do you, or using skills in that matter

Again, this is not really a good idea. A max range Archer would be practically untouchable with knockback arrow and Wingspan. Especially since Demon Wingspan casts Winged Shell on the Archer.

Again, you do not seem 2 have much expirience here either. its a lvl 5 shield for one, meaning 1 hit, not much of a troublesome feature. Secondly...euhm ever heard of teleport stun? I can KB maybe, ok, but if you tele 2 me, and learn 2 use your stunlocking skills, like BM's USED 2, then this would also be not a problem at all.


And that would pretty much make it useless in PvP. Not to mention that its function as a final safety guard in PvE would also be taken away. So it'd effectively be useless as anything but a tool to reset mobs that accidentally aggroed you.

How so? You can go invisable at the cost of 1 spark, and wait for things to finish CD, then re-engage. That's the point of the entire skill, its not supposed 2 be a chi machine, although that;s what it's used for now. Sins pop up from stealth, kill go back into stealth, single target assasins! Ya'll suck in TW type of PvP situations, secondly, if you wouldn't be able 2 stealth kill people, you wouldn;t last half as much as you do now. the stealth is basically like going into the Safe zone, and waiting for things 2 cool down, while recharging sparks. Seems to me, that it costing 1 spark makes more then perfect sense.

All in all, stop QQ-ing about losing the main OP spot and embrace the idea of giving you a more challenging fight, instead of popping out of stealth, auto attacking and thinking you got skills.

Must - Lost City

Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »

I don't see my point of knockback or bramble falling flat on anyone's reasons. That would almost immediately balance the game. Only an idiot is going to go full out APS on a person with bramble. The buff only last 10 minutes (unless sage version) so it's not like the other buffs that last 30+. I really don't understand why reflect doesn't work in pvp. The new Psychic reflect works why doesn't the old veno bramble? So it makes it difficult to kill someone but honestly should it be possible for a sin to drop a BM with 20k HP in pmarrow with full buffs roughly 26k pdef in about 8 seconds? If that's not unbalanced and you find this completely reasonable then by all means continue on in your land of face rolling on keyboards and being 1337 cuz your class is stupidly OP.

On you amazing changes answer me to this with reflect being a pvp skill how in the hell a barb will kill a heavy veno??

I have to agree with our sage/demon roar should work on pvp cause we actually have to cast the skill, besides the cost we had to get it in the first place...and then again our lack of seal stuns are defently *** agains other classes...

But a veno can buff with that and bacsicly dont do nothing jusrt being on fox form and wait till sin/bm barb archer to die from reflect dmg...

You are forgeting that most of the palyers dont have 10k/15k or 20k hp...


Now this scenario a average 6k archer hit a veno on 6k critical and dies from it... is that fair??

Not to even mention the nix...

this would result on ppl making venos just for the buff and cast on theyr mains to pvp...

Must - Lost City

Today I Solid Sheild'd and Invoked against SolidSnake, and he LITERALLY killed me through invoke in roughly 3-5 seconds. It was 1v1.

Oh please stop the QQing he has 12+ RANK9 DAGGERS do you think he survive a shot from a 12+ rank 9 barb also???

I too have a sin and yes they are OP on 1 VS 1 fights but i i also dye lots from heavy csers and dont QQ about it.

Susas bm for instance is always kiling me and you dont see me crying about it

Make stealth a super high upkeep, like BB, so they need a charm just to stay in stealth momentarily, it prevents them from staying in stealth, and if they are low on mana when the pop force stealth, the upkeep will pop them back out.

For PVP, TW, Tournie etc, how about 3 APS? (Haven't thought of the repercussions.)

Even with 3 aps you will fall like a papper and ppl spend thousand on int gear and keep spending, again thats not the way.


Most of sins have enough mana recover to be permantly on stealh(no to mention with cleric buffs) there also mp rec tomes crab meat and, well i always have mp charms on my sin.. thats not the way.

WHAT IS INNER HARMONY? MASTER LI'S ON STEROIDS? Literally, give every class the skill, or remove it entirely. I apologize for the strong reaction, but the Archer 100 skill has a 15 minute cooldown, and takes 20 chrono pages. Why should this be any different? That and getting chi on a demon archer is not easy at best.

There a genie skill that gives u 2 sparks also...... should i QQ about nixex now??

Obly - Dreamweaver

Must - Lost City wrote: »

On you amazing changes answer me to this with reflect being a pvp skill how in the hell a barb will kill a heavy veno?? You're not supposed 2 to start out with, Veno's are anti Barb...>.> that was their initial PvP orientation

I have to agree with our sage/demon roar should work on pvp cause we actually have to cast the skill, besides the cost we had to get it in the first place...and then again our lack of seal stuns are defently *** agains other classes... That;s why you get mass HP so you can TANK the damage and don;t need to stop their assault

But a veno can buff with that and bacsicly dont do nothing jusrt being on fox form and wait till sin/bm barb archer to die from reflect dmg... riiiiigghhttt.....like i posted before, single hit attacks won;t make you kill yourself >.<

You are forgeting that most of the palyers dont have 10k/15k or 20k hp... When your a barb, you should have that without breaking a sweat (12-13K standing up is ...low, 15K comes in good range)


Now this scenario a average 6k archer hit a veno on 6k critical and dies from it... is that fair?? Bramble doesn;t work on archers, so this statement is false. >.<

Not to even mention the nix... what about them? Its their PvP pet, its supposed 2 do good damage...simply means this, get the veno, and forget about the darn bird.

this would result on ppl making venos just for the buff and cast on theyr mains to pvp...Euhm...right...as to sins being made for?

Answers in green. Kthnxbai b:bye