Another KS scenario?
Comments
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Reashe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Killing anything that someone has already started to kill, is Kill Stealing, no matter how much anyone wants to paint it.
Saying that unfortunately in this game, it is allowed, though considered not a nice thing to do by decent people.........., but it is allowed.
They should have a first hit claims system, like you would find in FFXI, then you wouldnt have this issue.
b:victory b:victory b:victorywikipedia wrote:In online games and especially first-person shooter games and MMORPGs, kill stealing is the practice of arranging to get credit for killing an enemy, when it should have clearly been another player's kill. An example is when a player in a first-person shooter whittles an enemy's health down and is about to kill them, when another player comes along and shoots that enemy once. The second player gets credit for the kill despite having done almost none of the work of killing that enemywikipedia wrote:Many newer MMORPGs implement game designs that distributes the reward more fairly to those who fought a creature. Rewards can be distributed based on how much the player contributed to defeating the creature. A player that does 30% of the damage gains 30% of the money and experience points rewarded for defeating the creature (as it is in City of Heroes). A game might have a more sophisticated way to measure a player's contribution to the fight as well. A character whose primary task is healing other characters might be judged based on how much he healed combatants during the fight.wikipedia wrote:Flyff has a system where if one player has targeted a monster, no other player can attack that monster unless they are in the first player's party.wikipedia wrote:In Perfect World International experience is distributed according to one's contribution so that a player who merely runs in and lands only the killing blow gets relatively little EXP, as opposed to if they had taken on the target all by themselves and won.
countering KS is tricky; ur suggestion (i get the credit if i first hit the mob) leads to power leveling. i think that the pwi system is the best: reward by DD0 -
I read pretty much every single post from page 1 to 5, and some of the posts I agree with, others I don't, mainly I agree with those who said this was in fact a "stealing of the kill." Also agree that the original poster never truly asked to help, he just took over.
That being said.... let me ask and answer a few questions about this whole ordeal.
1. Was it wrong of him to come up and steal a kill from people?
Yes it was.
2. Were they there first?
Yes.
3. Did they handle it right by requesting that azz's leader do something about the KS?
Yes.
4. Is there anything else they can do about the situation?
No, not really.
5. Should they be upset that someone came in after they were there whether it be for a minute, or 5 hours?
In my opinion, yes they should.
6. Would it have been nice of azzazin to let them kill it for hours on in?
Yes.
7. Did he HAVE to let them try for hours?
No.
....
In short I don't condone what he did, but other then asking the leader of the person's faction to step in, there isn't much they can do to get the fun they lost... back, which was ruined by one person from a specific faction.
As for it not being a challenge... to some it IS a challenge, whacking off that much exp for an x amount of hours is a challenge to the players patience, and seeing how well they prepared for said fight.
Just remember that the players behind the characters are real, and for all you know they were really looking forward to being able to kill something after a long hard day at work, but that was taking away by someone else.
One more thing I would like to point out is that more people seem to be sympathizing with the level 60-80's that got the kill stolen from them instead of the OP.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »countering KS is tricky; ur suggestion (i get the credit if i first hit the mob) leads to power leveling. i think that the pwi system is the best: reward by DD
misleading words, i come from a mmorpg that had a system where first hit it was yours
it was also impossable to power lv since the exp return was always based off the lowest party member
this system worked so well that this game had a 12 year run before it finely closed due to its age for the most part0 -
Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »Anyways. Here are the facts:
1)As I recall, the 3-4 lvl 70ish ppl who were there were not of the same faction
2)They had *just* started attacking the boss when I arrived
3)Left to their own devices, they'd have easily been there 6+hours at the rate they were going
4)I clearly stated that I was going to be killing the boss, & that those there shouldn't waste their time
1. Perhaps they were friends in squad. It seems you didn't even consider this at all....
2. They were still there first and you will find most pwi players do go by this "custom"
3. Doesn't matter. They were there first. I had a lvl87 veno friend long ago that spent 4 hours killing it but often got good drops equaling about 14mil each time. He sometimes wouldn't get any drops but he was willing to spend 4 hours any time he could to kill it.
4. In other words "hey guys I'm gonna ks you because I'm a high lvl and I can."
I have heard of many factions that do not tolerate this from members. I am a leader of my own faction and I do take action against ksers. Should they ignore a couple warnings, I would kick them as well as not help them in the future. Most any other faction member that leaves I do try hard to help them out because they HAVE been in the faction in the past.
Honestly, I can easily see why you were scolded for this.Leader of EdensStar0 -
SmackaSmurf - Heavens Tear wrote: »misleading words, i come from a mmorpg that had a system where first hit it was yours
it was also impossable to power lv since the exp return was always based off the lowest party member
this system worked so well that this game had a 12 year run before it finely closed due to its age for the most part
first hit = yours: you mean that other players cant attack the mob? yes that would prevent poweleveling. however it will make impossible for more than one squad cooperate fro one boss (isnt that what happened for WB a while ago?)
if other people can still hit the mob, they just stay out of squad and kill the mobs -> player gets exp.
of course you could add diminishing returns for exp if the mob is much higher than ur level.
so yeah, i think it's not that simple. and i dont think that that game lived for 12y just because of that system (but i can be mistaken)0 -
I wonder what kind of responses I would get if I started a Thread with:
omg I was joining the Nien Event, I saw the Boss 1st, nobody was there, and then these bunch of 8x and 9x peeps starts attacking too!!
That is just ho-ho-horrible!! I wanted to kill the Boss, soloing it with my Bunny Pet and this Weapon I got from FB19 reward! That is my goal, one of my accomplishment!!
They should not KS me, and PWI should make it so if I hit the Boss with my shiny Blue Weapon from Fb19 first, I will get all the EXP and drop!!
you all agree dontcha?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't think people that complain about ksing deserve the oxygen they breathe, but you did technically ks them.
No one cares though.
Besides, it got your cleric out of a noob fac. Seems good thing happen when you ks b:cute0 -
Reashe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Killing anything that someone has already started to kill, is Kill Stealing, no matter how much anyone wants to paint it.
Saying that unfortunately in this game, it is allowed, though considered not a nice thing to do by decent people.........., but it is allowed.
They should have a first hit claims system, like you would find in FFXI, then you wouldnt have this issue.
b:victory b:victory b:victory
Key, on next tiger event I`ll just take some boss as my own and QQ if anybody else comes to hit it. I can kill those efficiently alone and I wouldnt need any help for it, thanks for buffs I got on my own alts. By your logic I`d have right for it by being there first.
Simply, WBs, spawn so rarely that anybody being there first and "owning" the boss is plain rude towards others. Would OP had come with 2 squads and had there been lonely veno soloing it? People should follow some childish "I saw it first" rule? Would that veno been farmer, farming WBs for drops just to sell em? Would OP come there with those squads to help some faction mate get chrono pages for his skills? Oh well, making "genaral rules" into oneliners, wonder they are simply stupid?
Ps. Why ppl have to make things black and white and shoot so stupid comments about everything?Trolling Sid since So Hot
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first let me exsplain first hit its your meaning no one out side or your squad cold even hit it
also it did keep thing even by requireing same lv partys none of this drag a person thru a FB BH by a higher lv player you had to play your own skills and leard to get better
there was no free lunch
and yes this game was F2P with no cash shop everyone was on equle footing you had to know your race class it lived on players that loved it enuff to support it
the game went down due to a change in managment that tried to be greedy and the fact it used a game engine that had become obsoleat
even now theres a core of players trying to make a new update one even if its slow going i do beleive that one day it will happen
matter of fact if you would like and have the skills in game building and such pm me ill sent you a link on how to get involded just tell thhem Knave sent ya0 -
That aint Ks-ing that's showing how it's done. <.<
I learned that the hard way too and i learned well.
Want something ? work for it, fight for it.
I learned that on exactly the same WB.
I spied Soulhunter and wanted to attack it KNOWING full well i was on my own and could lose out on even a squad consisting of 2 people or like OP to ONE person being a lvl higher than me.
suprisingly i was in my 70's as well. Half a faction shows up 5 minutes after i had started attacking it and did NOT let me into their squads no matter how much i pleaded and begged and told them i had attacked it first. so it was mine.
WRONGO. they outnumbered me, outdd-ed me by FAR.. i lost. period.
It's like base principal of aggro, You lost it, you aint getting it back unless you try when your better prepared.
I probably would have let it slide and tried another time on my own BUT they called me a noob, weakling and all sort of other profanity for even TRYING on my own and threatened to KS every mob me and my faction mates were killing if i didn't leave or stopped begging to get into their squad.
Did i show them wrong when i returned a week later, well prepared with ONE squad of my friends against 2 of theirs and fought for the kill. and whaddya know... we got it.
when they had demon archers, barbs, clerics and veno's sparking it like mad against one single small squad of different factions.
one thing i'll never forget is their smileys and exclamations of WTF!?
< It's you ! how'd you get the kill !? that cant be possible.
it can be, if you want it to be.
that dear OP was NOT KSing.
Just remember, that squad can come back better prepared, better geared and bring alot of friends next time it spawns and your there.
and then, it wont be KSing either.All you need is something to believe in. -Solar_one. <--
mah snoockums, mah hubby, mah eberyfing. 
Lag; You think yours is bad ? It took Jesus 3 days to Respawn !
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Current games aren't -games- anymore, just light shows operated by win buttons, lol."
"ah sh*t, were gonna die!.... but it's still cool!" -INTMDATOR0 -
SmackaSmurf - Heavens Tear wrote: »first let me exsplain first hit its your meaning no one out side or your squad cold even hit it
also it did keep thing even by requireing same lv partys none of this drag a person thru a FB BH by a higher lv player you had to play your own skills and leard to get better
there was no free lunch
and yes this game was F2P with no cash shop everyone was on equle footing you had to know your race class it lived on players that loved it enuff to support it
the game went down due to a change in managment that tried to be greedy and the fact it used a game engine that had become obsoleat
even now theres a core of players trying to make a new update one even if its slow going i do beleive that one day it will happen
matter of fact if you would like and have the skills in game building and such pm me ill sent you a link on how to get involded just tell thhem Knave sent ya
oh, i see. yeah that doesnt look exploitable.
still, i'm not sure if players should "lock" a WB by being there first or they should fight for it.WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »Key, on next tiger event I`ll just take some boss as my own and QQ if anybody else comes to hit it. I can kill those efficiently alone and I wouldnt need any help for it, thanks for buffs I got on my own alts. By your logic I`d have right for it by being there first.
Simply, WBs, spawn so rarely that anybody being there first and "owning" the boss is plain rude towards others. Would OP had come with 2 squads and had there been lonely veno soloing it? People should follow some childish "I saw it first" rule? Would that veno been farmer, farming WBs for drops just to sell em? Would OP come there with those squads to help some faction mate get chrono pages for his skills? Oh well, making "genaral rules" into oneliners, wonder they are simply stupid?
Ps. Why ppl have to make things black and white and shoot so stupid comments about everything?
your post has too many common points with mine; i even said "childish rule 'isaw it first it's mine' "b:chuckle *QQs about copyright* b:avoidb:laugh0 -
- So what's the big deal about killing this boss? what does it drop Gold or what0
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More of an embarrassment than a KS .. Stop being a wuss on Soul Hunter and kill a good WB b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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tidesuxbadly wrote: »- So what's the big deal about killing this boss? what does it drop Gold or what
chrono pages (~2mil)
perfect shards (~3mil/1mil/100k depending on the shard)
some worthless oht mats
note that there is a chance to drop that; a lot of times the boss dropped just oht maps0 -
ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think you need to read more closely, OP told them
That's in no way an offering to help being ignored.
No one here needed the boss, so he could have stayed or left at his pleasure.
Again, he didn't ask to join.
Again, he didn't need to even kill the boss
I'm not following you here.
I actually think it was mature. If they had complained to him personally everyone would have just called it "QQing"
They said he ws KSing them - which means KILL STEALING.
But this implies they are some time this century, going to KILL it.
To me he is obviously killing something they might ... or might not kill.
Honestly has anyone even considered that after a certain amount of time of them wacking on it, it might uh.. u know.. - reset -.
I will say one thing - regardless of right or wrong.. no one likes a whiney-QQing-tattletale that runs to the Leader.
Long ago when i was Leader, I pked anyone that wasted MY time with trivial complaints, from another Legion. Why would I even care about them... (Not in my Legion and got a complaint.. suck it up *smack in head*)
Eventually, I received none. The Leader should look out for HIS people, not some brats from various other legions that should be out leveling vice poking a boss.
This is the difference between people that fight a rough hard core TW or cry on the sidelines because they broke a nail pulling the cata or run from an attack because they are sure to die...
Yes I am a girl :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MyuMyu - Harshlands wrote: »I wonder what kind of responses I would get if I started a Thread with:
omg I was joining the Nien Event, I saw the Boss 1st, nobody was there, and then these bunch of 8x and 9x peeps starts attacking too!!
That is just ho-ho-horrible!! I wanted to kill the Boss, soloing it with my Bunny Pet and this Weapon I got from FB19 reward! That is my goal, one of my accomplishment!!
They should not KS me, and PWI should make it so if I hit the Boss with my shiny Blue Weapon from Fb19 first, I will get all the EXP and drop!!
you all agree dontcha?
"Every rule has it's exception"
In that case in a widespread event where numerous people are competing for the same prize it would be extremely futile to QQ to anyone about it.
....
Not really at the person I quoted, but... hypothetically speaking IF pwi HAD a boss that has a chance to drop a scroll of tome, and you spend 6 hours at the boss safely ranging it at a safe distance and you have it down to 70%, taking 2 hours to chop of 10% of it's hp, and then when you have it at 70% a team of people came in, and were able to knock of 65% of it's health in less then two hours (the other 5% thanks to your dd) and then said boss happened to drop a scroll of tome, would you not be pissed at that team for coming in and taking away all your hard work?
(EDIT: Yes this would be assuming you have ∞ amount of time to kill the boss before it resets)
That is a worst case scenario, and it is again a HYPOTHETICAL situation, but I can see many people being ticked off if that happened to them, perhaps including the original poster.
As I said above every rule has it's exception, so yea in some cases it would be asinine to think that complaining about others attacking the same monster as you would get you anywhere.
Either way what is done... is done, obviously some people would think/call you an *** for your actions, I am sure you will continue to play the game however you see fit.
Also for the record even if this was a pvp server I don't think I would waste my time hunting someone over something as... trivial as this, as others have pointed out, we all often have better things to do then sit around waiting for something to be accomplished/someone to come out of safe zone to kill them. =x
EDIT:They said he ws KSing them - which means KILL STEALING.
But this implies they are some time this century, going to KILL it.
To me he is obviously killing something they might ... or might not kill.
Honestly has anyone even considered that after a certain amount of time of them wacking on it, it might uh.. u know.. - reset -.
I will say one thing - regardless of right or wrong.. no one likes a whiney-QQing-tattletale that runs to the Leader.
Long ago when i was Leader, I pked anyone that wasted MY time with trivial complaints, from another Legion. Why would I even care about them... (Not in my Legion and got a complaint.. suck it up *smack in head*)
Eventually, I received none. The Leader should look out for HIS people, not some brats from various other legions that should be out leveling vice poking a boss.
This is the difference between people that fight a rough hard core TW or cry on the sidelines because they broke a nail pulling the cata or run from an attack because they are sure to die...
Yes I am a girl :P
While it is true every leader has his or her own way of doing things, in my opinion a good leader listens to the complaints of others, unless they want a mutiny on their hands from their own 'mates.'
You never know what reaction people might have when they see how little you care for others. =xAh, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »Not really at the person I quoted, but... hypothetically speaking IF pwi HAD a boss that has a chance to drop a scroll of tome, and you spend 6 hours at the boss safely ranging it at a safe distance and you have it down to 70%, taking 2 hours to chop of 10% of it's hp, and then when you have it at 70% a team of people came in, and were able to knock of 65% of it's health in less then two hours (the other 5% thanks to your dd) and then said boss happened to drop a scroll of tome, would you not be pissed at that team for coming in and taking away all your hard work?
the thing is, when OP arrived boss have lost 100k. that's less that 0.5% of his hp, it's 0,42% (~24mil hp).
since the boss used stun (which happens after 20min of fight) the were there for more than 20min and if they were left alone they would have to keep DDing for over 80h to kill it.0 -
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TesterLife - Archosaur wrote: »
I giggled at the Archosaur tag after reading the post.
Come to Harshlands, we be nice people b:sin0 -
Honestly, it sounds like someone has an inferiority complex.
There are other WB's so why not try another first or do something else?
Yeah, it's far too much effort to travel to another or to think of anything else to do.
Besides that, as an argument, some people comparing a WB to an event... b:chuckle
Another funny thing, if it were the group that attacked first telling the tale on this forum, all hell would have broken out about the QQ. While it's the KS'er narrating about his hardship, there is far less... b:shocked b:chuckle
The clearest issue here, in my view, is the way the OP approached this, essentially telling the group to eff off, otherwise they will be Ks'd. The lack of manners bit back and so he comes on here to feel good again...
How's the complex? b:shutup0 -
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ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »events and WB are 1 time every week usually.
looks like a pretty valid comparison to me. what's ur point?
How many world bosses are out there? Kind of suggests otherwise.
Fulfilling the premise of an on topic reply, this stuff happens all the time. Nothing new. There are more fun things to do in game, surely?0 -
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I remember a year or 2 ago when a GM came over and pked a bunch of people because they were kill stealing or something.
Perhaps afnother HTer can refresh my memory ^^
I'd say there's close to 25 world bosses, most if not all of which, are on a 24 hour respawn timer. How long are your weeks? b:chuckle0 -
So, to make things simple:
OP ks'd a bunch of other low lvls of a world boss cause he can. Hes trying to claim he did it so to ease their burden of spending hours trying to kill it (LOL) .
Not saying hes wrong,game is suposed to have some competitivity, but coming to forums and trying to make it like he did a good thing is pathetic. Just admit u did it out of greed and cause u wanted the reward to yourself. Perfect gems are worth a good 3m + and chrono pages are worth 2m.0 -
MyuMyu - Harshlands wrote: »I wonder what kind of responses I would get if I started a Thread with:
omg I was joining the Nien Event, I saw the Boss 1st, nobody was there, and then these bunch of 8x and 9x peeps starts attacking too!!
That is just ho-ho-horrible!! I wanted to kill the Boss, soloing it with my Bunny Pet and this Weapon I got from FB19 reward! That is my goal, one of my accomplishment!!
They should not KS me, and PWI should make it so if I hit the Boss with my shiny Blue Weapon from Fb19 first, I will get all the EXP and drop!!
you all agree dontcha?
....I don't dont agree with your point of view at all. In nien event if u hit the boss you get points for it, and you get rewarded depending on the amount points gained in total. The event is meant for everyone to participate. Also the event has a time limit.
If you hit WB one time it will not give you anything. The WB does not have time limit. Therefore if they are there first and are trying to kill it, it is "counted" as theirs and is moral to let them continue. The OP did not offer any help, but simply said you people will take too long for it to die so i will go and kill it. This is called kill stealing. I'm pretty sure you would also be qqing if you were one of those people trying to kill WB but got rudely KSd by the OP.
b:bye0 -
Can't see anything wrong here... drops from mob kills, including world bosses, are coded to whoever dealt the most damage for 30-60 sec (never timed it but you can't pickup someone else's drops for some period of time). So there's no such thing as kill-stealing...
If you can pick it up it's because: 1) you dealt the most damage; 2) the other guy failed to pick it up for whatever the grace period is.
Anyone that uses the complaint "You're KSing me" is probably confused and actually means "You're harassing me by repeatedly and consistently disrupting my gameplay to prevent completion of a quest." If that's the case take multiple screen shots over time to document the evidence and submit a ticket as harassement of that nature is against the terms of service, but technically the game prevents kill-stealing so there's no such thing by definition.0 -
still a KS
and kinda a di.ck move b:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
when life gives you lemons
put them in a sack and beat your wife
with them b:victory0 -
I see WBs as a free-for-all, so I see no fault in killing the boss. If you were consistently killing MOBS that someone else was hitting at the time, then yes, that would be KSing.
-IF- those people were working together, I do kind of see it as mean to kill something that they were hoping to do themselves...but like I said, WB = free-for-all. -IF- it would have taken them ~6 hours or so to kill the boss, I'm sure they would have given up at some point or someone else would have swooped down to kill it instead.
Side note...I don't remember who it was exactly or what thread it was, but I swear I read a GM/higher-up state that WBs are free-for-all. I'm too lazy to seek out the post. If I find it when I get unlazy, I'll link it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Let me restate one thing: I am in no way 'justifying' my actions. Nor am I particularly upset that my I removed my alt from its previous faction as a result of this.
What I did want to see, and which many of you are doing, is discussing various points of view as to whether what I did was considering 'KSing' or not, as well as talking about what exactly constitutes KSing. Tell me how many forum posts you've seen recently where there was a healthy amount of debate over a topic?
My line of thought is by no means 'the one and only correct line of thought'. Different people in the same situation as I was in would undoubtedly react in many different ways. I was curious to see what the forum users here thought about my particular choice, including my reasoning for why I did what I did. Good reason or bad reason, I really don't do 'random' very much. Most things I do, I put some thought into. In this you have all been most obliging. I've been following this thread with great interest due to the variety of comments which have been posted here, for which I thank you all.
Incidentally, thanos, the others are right about the boss respawn: it is 24 hours. I do not, in fact, know of any bosses with a one week respawn (weekly events aside); Harpy Wraith, for instance, has a 1 month respawn. The reason we see her every week is due to maintenance. For world bosses, though, maintenance is key, because all of the world bosses come back to life. Its the only time you can reliably (as far as I know) know that a world boss will be there *for sure*.
Also, when my gear is ready for it, I will certainly attempt other world bosses
fear not.
Azzazin[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.0
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