Another KS scenario?

Granrey - Sanctuary

Based on OP logic, the people that were there first have to level up to gain the right to kill a boss or hope people like you will not show up while they are killing the boss.

b:bye


Anyways, I don't blame you neither the other players, since this is the culture encouraged in the mechanics of this game.

While in other modern games, its encouraged players to play toguether to gain more rewards. On this game is encouraged the opposite. The less people participating the better.


The way, it should be is that the boss should drop more items, the more people participate and dificulty should increase too (without needing to squad). Making the task more epic, more rewards and more player friendly.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Azzazzin, I see you just opened a bag of Oreo cookies there...

I doubt you can eat them as fast as I can, in fact I think I'll just take your cookies and eat them faster than you to show you how it's done.

Don't like it? QQ me a river.

How is this preposterous example similar to your story?
How is it dissimilar?
Can you connect the dots?

This I can answer. Lets go with your example, and I'll point out in a number of ways exactly why your example is inadequate.

1) My cookies, I bought them with my own IRL money. My 'property'. World boss? Nobody owns that. Which leads to an interesting line of thought about 'ks'; if mobs are not owned, can there be theft of them? Well that is another line of discussion altogether.
2) There is no reward for eating cookies faster. World boss? Most cookies eaten = right to 100% of the loot that drops.
3) We are both capable of consuming cookies at a reasonable speed. In my scenario, its more like a few baby mice nibbling on one cookie, while I'm consuming an entire cookie with each bite.
4) You are right. This is a preposterous example.

Edit: And my name is Azzazin, not Azzazzin.


Azzazin

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Based on OP logic, the people that were there first have to level up to gain the right to kill a boss or hope people like you will not show up while they are killing the boss.

b:bye


Anyways, I don't blame you neither the other players, since this is the culture encouraged in the mechanics of this game.

While in other modern games, its encouraged players to play toguether to gain more rewards. On this game is encouraged the opposite. The less people participating the better.


The way, it should be is that the boss should drop more items, the more people participate and dificulty should increase too (without needing to squad). Making the task more epic, more rewards and more player friendly.

This is a true statement.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

what's next, if i hit first the boss in the tiger event i have the right to kill it myself?

WB, tiger events, archo assault, harpy, nien event, the upcoming rabbit event, dragon temple:
all occur rarely, have stuff that people really want and it's meant for people to fight for them.

KS is for mobs, bosses that respawn after 10-20min

CoA is another issue...if i can just go and kill the next boss there is no need to KS.


challenge? what challenge? ist that the boss that doesnt even hit back? they could just go to tt and hit the eye... besides, azz just speed up the process. now if they want to stay 6h hitting a boss they can go kill the ancient sea dragon...

giving them a bit of loot might be good though; some oht mats, 1/6 (since u said that they will need 6h, u helped killing it in ~40min)


on the faction thingy, in the end leader can set any rules... like wearing only pink fash xd

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what's next, if i hit first the boss in the tiger event i have the right to kill it myself?

WB, tiger events, archo assault, harpy, nien event, the upcoming rabbit event, dragon temple:
all occur rarely, have stuff that people really want and it's meant for people to fight for them.

KS is for mobs, bosses that respawn after 10-20min

CoA is another issue...if i can just go and kill the next boss there is no need to KS.


challenge? what challenge? ist that the boss that doesnt even hit back? they could just go to tt and hit the eye... besides, azz just speed up the proccess. now if they want to stay 6h hitting a boss they can go kill the ancient sea dragon...

giving them a bit of loot might be good though; some oht mats, 1/6 (since u said that they will need 6h, u helped kill it in ~40min)


on the faction thingy, in the end leader can set any rules... like wearing only pink fash xd

Lol! This I can agree with, every bit. Even the loot bit, if something similar happens at some point, I'll remember this.

Incidentally, this boss doesn't hit back *if you are not in melee range*. If the person with aggro is in melee range, you most certainly get whacked.

Pink fashion... I like purple more

Azzazin

Olbaze - Sanctuary

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

He was bigger, stronger and could kill the boss in a reasonable amount of time. Why should he wait for them to stop playing with it? And when they grow more, hell - they can do same.

Do not get me wrong, I am a nice person. But, honestly... this is what gaming is about. I go to oracles and see the tiny ones struggling to kill and I wait... and wait and fricking wait. They die, I take their spot, they run back - demand their spot back. NO....

Ever heard of challenging yourself? Some people like to impose challenges on themselves, such as, in this case, beating a WB while being vastly underleveled. For example, if you go to any console RPG forum, you'll most likely find people who are doing such challenges. For example, completing the game with only one character, or leveling the character to maximum level using only the weakest monsters or not upgrading your gear.

Sometimes people need to stop wasting OTHER people's time and stick to mobs/bosses their own level so others can get in there, kill it and move on.

So you're saying that other people cannot have fun? That's quite a selfish claim right there. There are still people who play the game casually, enjoying the little or bigger challenges that come along the way. Stuff like trying to solo a WB or a miniboss or whatever. Just because you think that the game needs to be about profit and getting to the top and being the best, doesn't mean that it has to be that for others.

And of course, you can say that others stealing a boss off you doesn't matter. After all, if you're a 5 aps assassin, who's going to do the stealing, if not a better geared 5 aps assassin, or a squad of multiple such characters?

Can it really be that hard to understand that there are people who play the game for fun? That there are people who don't mind spending crazy amounts of time if it means they achieve something that they can feel good about afterwards? That there are people who are not driven by material profits?

Siiobhan - Archosaur

To the OP:

Regardless of the politics of WB, each faction has rules for the members to abide by. When you join a faction you agree to abide by those rules. Clearly your faction had a "no-ksing" rule and you broke it. Your reward was getting kicked out of the faction. YOU made the decision to break the factions rules, YOU suffer the consequences.

Lady_Seolfor - Dreamweaver

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well guys, here's a little situation I ran into recently, and I'm curious to see what others have to say about it.

Yesterday in the wee hours of the morning, immediately after maintenance was done, I logged on, and went to check on a world boss... in this case, 'Soul Hunter'. Yet fast as I logged on, a few people were faster still; a very small group of ~lvl 70s had gathered by Soul Hunter and were using ranged magic attacks. I don't think they were from the same faction. Don't ask me how, but despite the fact that they had only taken about 100k hp off, Soul Hunter was already doing his aoe stun/hp debuff every 6s (typically Soul Hunter starts this action only after he has lost 1/2 hp). Left to their own devices, they would have had to spend 6 hours+ to kill the boss, easily.

Well I thought to myself, this is ridiculous. They'll be here forever and a day; I'm going to go kill the boss. And I told the people there so, I said 'Heh guys, I'm going to kill this boss and get the loot, you probably shouldn't waste your time staying here'. Naturally, they didn't listen to me, and so off I went, and as I had said, I killed the boss. Took... maybe 40 minutes? Having the aoe stun right from the-get go made it a bit slower than normal. **** drops. Anyways, this is all besides the point.

Later on, I get a pm from the faction leader of my alt cleric 'So I heard you were KSing a boss'. Here my memory is a bit vague as to the particular wording (at this time I was busy with a friend killing another world boss), but basically, I was told that this reflected 'badly on the faction' and that I'd 'be booted if I did this again'. I thought that was an absurd threat, and removed my cleric from that faction.

Anyways. Here are the facts:

1)As I recall, the 3-4 lvl 70ish ppl who were there were not of the same faction
2)They had *just* started attacking the boss when I arrived
3)Left to their own devices, they'd have easily been there 6+hours at the rate they were going
4)I clearly stated that I was going to be killing the boss, & that those there shouldn't waste their time

So do tell, (a) does this even constitute KSing? and (b) how exactly does this reflect 'badly' on a faction? Heck I can possibly understand, say, 10 ppl from my cleric's faction showing up & taking the kill from another large group of ppl who had already arrived there & who were actually capable of killing the boss in a decent amount of time, as reflecting 'badly' on a faction. Instead, I arrived with my cleric, to see a small group of ppl who were not really capable of killing the boss in a decent amount of time, and I arrived pretty much right after they did. Maybe 2 minutes outside, tops.

Thoughts?

Azzazin

You could have just left them to do the killing , and done that WB the next day. Even though you CAN steal their kill, doesn't mean you have to do it.

You reap what you sow.

grimreaperhc

To be honest, I must agree with Olbaze's post about having fun.

Many of the people in-game have forgotten what having fun is and now they are only aiming to be the best in the end of the day. Many people have forgotten how a bunch of 70s were doing FB69 and not because they wanted to have fun, but because they were no higher levels on the server. Many people are forgetting that and by trying to accomplish their goals are ruining the fun of the rest.

I must also agree about setting a challenge to yourself. For example on 73 I said that I`ll solo Quingzi no matter what. First time a friend who was in squad with me decided to come and keep my back in case I die. I failed, but after I got some cleric buffs I went in and killed the damn bug. You all know what's the feeling to do something like that. In such moment you are realizing for what you are playing.

Azz, I think that you should have just left the guys trying.

Meh, never mind.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

@ Oblaze: It is all well and good to imagine that these lvl 70s had noble aspirations in killing this boss, but isn't that also somewhat of a large assumption? First of all, *most* people kill bosses or mobs with the hopes of getting some reward, whether that be coins or xp. In the case of bosses, FC aside, that becomes money only. Now if boss A is easy and drops X amount of loot, and boss B is more difficult, and also drops X amount of loot, which would I choose? If I'm 100% money oriented, the logical choice would be to pick boss A every time. But you know what? Sometimes I would pick boss B. I do like a challenge now and then, agreed.

But.

If these lvl 70s were *not* after coin, what were they after. A challenge? As Thanos said, this boss isn't so much a challenge, as a test of endurance. It will not hit back; it will however, do nasty things to your channeling speed, as well as do an aoe stun every 6s. Oh, also reduces attack speed, and does an aoe hp debuff. Not so much challenging as *annoying as hell*.

Furthermore, the fact that these players got there so fast would indicate to me that they were seeking to kill the boss for a monetary gain. They obviously knew enough about this boss to know exactly where to find it, and that it would not hit back. So... they knew this, but they were really only *doing boss for a challenge* right?... hmmm.

You make another assumption that I can't ignore: you seem to think that I am not also enjoying the attempt at this world boss. Fun? I have fun every moment I play this game. With my gear, devising strategies to kill any world bosses, period, is an achievement.

Incidentally, on another note: I do TTs frequently. I mentioned I have an alt cleric right? I did some number crunching, and given the % chance of finding goodies from world bosses, TT will win out almost every time, for me. Why then am I even bothering to kill a world boss? Why? Aha! The answer: a change of pace---a challenge---drops chrono pages needed for my lvl 100 skills (recently finished culti). Again, if I were solely money-oriented as you mistakenly seem to think, I wouldn't have been there in the first place.

Azzazin

cuz I sign what I write.

Granrey - Sanctuary

For those telling the OP to leave the "wanna be boss killers" kill the boss, yeah I would have left them kill the boss too (thats how I am).

but wait, do we all have the time to return another time to the boss?

do we have limited game play?

what about if when I return there is another group killing the bosss?

I remember back in the day (2009? maybe) with the spider king and pirate sales?

low levels were making lines to kill the single spider king while the high level players did not make line and just went ahead and kill the mob many times (since they bought many of those quests) and everybody was complaining.

OP did what he had to do.

TigerLily - Lost City

HealingBliss - Lost City wrote: »

Well i'm just glad there aren't many jerks like you on lost city. I think it's nice some level 70's wanted to try a world boss. But you are a sin so i guess that explains everything xP

On Lost City someone would have killed all the 70's in 1 aoe instead lol. Than steal the boss and talk trash about it ^_^

Seriously tho if you wanna kill a World Boss and cant defend it from ks/pvp w/e than you better lure it far far away from its original spawn place or you're pretty dumb. Not like its hard to pull Soul Hunter to a safer location. If it wasn't the sin "stealing" the boss, someone else would have killed it before the 70's where done. There is no way you can DD a popular World Boss like that for hours without other players interrupting.

But i do agree that morally, its pretty low not to let a few 70's have their fun. Just because u can take over a boss, doesn't mean you have to.

NiaJade - Harshlands

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

But i do agree that morally, its pretty low not to let a few 70's have their fun. Just because u can take over a boss, doesn't mean you have to.

And at any time they could of allowed him to join their party, vice ignoring his request....

Two seconds to say, "no we would like to try this ourselves"...

And you see how very quickly they went and tattled to his Leader to try to get him into hot water, which they did.

So then the question is, they snub him when he also needed the bosses drops -- and expect him to take the high road?

I would of taken their ignoring me as a slight and taught them a lesson or two about respect. And after they went QQ'ing to my Leader, same...

I think they need a game that has Rainbows and Sunshine... its two doors down to the right.

Lalius - Lost City

Good for you, you are on a PvE server. Yes you did KS. No, only because you can, does not mean it's right to do so. That's the problem of PvE-Servers. You can do whatever you like and no one can do anything about it. As some people pointed out, on a PvP server you would have got kill spammed for it, if they had people who could take you (You being a sin able to tank a WB, you prolly have great gear. Therefore you somehow think it belongs to you more than to those lvl 70s).

Anyway, stop beating around the bush. You did what you did because you could, you were greedy and out for drops and did not care that others were there first, or that they might have needed the coin more than a pimped up 5 aps sin. That's ok and good for you, especially since you do not have to face consequences being a self righteous blue name. But stop acting all surprised and try to justify it ("They did take so long!", "Drops were bad anyway!", "They were all in different factions!").

NiaJade - Harshlands

Lalius - Lost City wrote: »

Good for you, you are on a PvE server. Yes you did KS. No, only because you can, does not mean it's right to do so. That's the problem of PvE-Servers. You can do whatever you like and no one can do anything about it. As some people pointed out, on a PvP server you would have got kill spammed for it, if they had people who could take you (You being a sin able to tank a WB, you prolly have great gear. Therefore you somehow think it belongs to you more than to those lvl 70s).

Anyway, stop beating around the bush. You did what you did because you could, you were greedy and out for drops and did not care that others were there first, or that they might have needed the coin more than a pimped up 5 aps sin. That's ok and good for you, especially since you do not have to face consequences being a self righteous blue name. But stop acting all surprised and try to justify it ("They did take so long!", "Drops were bad anyway!", "They were all in different factions!").

Yes the OP did what they did, because he could. So tell me, what is so wrong with that?
He offered to help, they ignored. This was an important opportunity.

Does the OP stand around, waiting for them to maybe eventually kill it? Wait for someone else to come in an snag it from them?

Look here is the thing - wrong and right is not black and white, it is shades of gray. In the end, this OP needed this boss, and would be more than able to kill it. The ones killing it, not so much.

They will have their day in the sun, maybe they should of let the person have it that needed it, vice **** up his chance? There is no guantee they would of been able to kill it, and he asked to join in.

His choices were clear, wait around.. for them to stop poking at it, or take it.

And honestly Kill Steal hints to the fact that they -would- of gotten the drops (from the kill - aka the boss) -- and he stole them.. there was no guantee of this.

I have an issue with them running to his Leader to whine... I find that type of childish behavior fairly sad.

Skulla - Dreamweaver

OK, I tried to make it so ridiculous even an idiot could connect the dots, apparently I needed to account for bullheaded stubbornness and myopia as well.

If YOU have/discover/find/obtain ANYTHING before ME and I want what YOU have is it OK for ME to just come and take it from YOU just because I am capable of doing so?

That's what this whole thing boils down to.

You CANNOT fail to connect that.

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto You.

It's called the Golden Rule for a reason boys and girls...

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes the OP did what they did, because he could. So tell me, what is so wrong with that?
He offered to help, they ignored. This was an important opportunity.

I think you need to read more closely, OP told them

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I told the people there so, I said 'Heh guys, I'm going to kill this boss and get the loot, you probably shouldn't waste your time staying here'.

That's in no way an offering to help being ignored.

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

Does the OP stand around, waiting for them to maybe eventually kill it? Wait for someone else to come in an snag it from them?

Look here is the thing - wrong and right is not black and white, it is shades of gray. In the end, this OP needed this boss, and would be more than able to kill it. The ones killing it, not so much.

They will have their day in the sun, maybe they should of let the person have it that needed it, vice **** up his chance? There is no guantee they would of been able to kill it, and he asked to join in.

No one here needed the boss, so he could have stayed or left at his pleasure.

Again, he didn't ask to join.

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

His choices were clear, wait around.. for them to stop poking at it, or take it.

Again, he didn't need to even kill the boss

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

And honestly Kill Steal hints to the fact that they -would- of gotten the drops (from the kill - aka the boss) -- and he stole them.. there was no guarantee of this.

I'm not following you here.

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

I have an issue with them running to his Leader to whine... I find that type of childish behavior fairly sad.

I actually think it was mature. If they had complained to him personally everyone would have just called it "QQing"

Devinettie - Heavens Tear

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes the OP did what they did, because he could. So tell me, what is so wrong with that?
He offered to help, they ignored. This was an important opportunity.

Does the OP stand around, waiting for them to maybe eventually kill it? Wait for someone else to come in an snag it from them?

Look here is the thing - wrong and right is not black and white, it is shades of gray. In the end, this OP needed this boss, and would be more than able to kill it. The ones killing it, not so much.

They will have their day in the sun, maybe they should of let the person have it that needed it, vice **** up his chance? There is no guantee they would of been able to kill it, and he asked to join in.

His choices were clear, wait around.. for them to stop poking at it, or take it.

And honestly Kill Steal hints to the fact that they -would- of gotten the drops (from the kill - aka the boss) -- and he stole them.. there was no guantee of this.

I have an issue with them running to his Leader to whine... I find that type of childish behavior fairly sad.

Where in this whole thing did he say that? He walked up said I'm going to Kill this boss and did.. He NEVER said he asked to join He never said May I join you to kill faster, he said I"m going to Kill this Boss.. NO questions asked.. Just because they were Lower lvl than him. Which is rude and very morally wrong, Seen a group of random 60-80s Killing Soulhunter one day, lvl 100 came by.. ASKED to Join.. They talked it over and One left squad and let the 100 Join.. because it was Polite, Killed the boss.. and 100 Left without a thing, Didn't want none of the drops just wanted to help kill the boss because it was fun. Point.. It was a PVE server and that 100 could have easily taken the kill if she wanted, But she didn't she asked to join and said "If not thats okay.. I'll watch my dmg and deal from the outside to help if you want." What he did was Take the Boss from someone who was trying their hardest, Just because he was a higher lvl.

MyuMyu - Harshlands

Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OK, I tried to make it so ridiculous even an idiot could connect the dots, apparently I needed to account for bullheaded stubbornness and myopia as well.

If YOU have/discover/find/obtain ANYTHING before ME and I want what YOU have is it OK for ME to just come and take it from YOU just because I am capable of doing so?

That's what this whole thing boils down to.

You CANNOT fail to connect that.

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto You.

It's called the Golden Rule for a reason boys and girls...

Actually from your example, OP is right, if the Oreo, lets say, is mine, I bought it with my money, then you have no right to take it from me.

In this case, the WB, is just there standing, if you want to compare with Oreo, you're like in some party and the party holder put that Oreo in a plate for everybody, which means, if you can eat it faster than me, then by all means, finish it.


Also, by your logic, explain and elaborate this:

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what's next, if i hit first the boss in the tiger event i have the right to kill it myself?

WB, tiger events, archo assault, harpy, nien event, the upcoming rabbit event, dragon temple:
all occur rarely, have stuff that people really want and it's meant for people to fight for them.

KS is for mobs, bosses that respawn after 10-20min

CoA is another issue...if i can just go and kill the next boss there is no need to KS.


challenge? what challenge? ist that the boss that doesnt even hit back? they could just go to tt and hit the eye... besides, azz just speed up the process. now if they want to stay 6h hitting a boss they can go kill the ancient sea dragon...

giving them a bit of loot might be good though; some oht mats, 1/6 (since u said that they will need 6h, u helped killing it in ~40min)


on the faction thingy, in the end leader can set any rules... like wearing only pink fash xd

other thought: I admit OP's line of defense here with word sux. bad.
if I dont have same kind of thinking with him, it would be easy to counter attack every of his word. ijs.

SmackaSmurf - Heavens Tear

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

And at any time they could of allowed him to join their party, vice ignoring his request....

Two seconds to say, "no we would like to try this ourselves"...

And you see how very quickly they went and tattled to his Leader to try to get him into hot water, which they did.

So then the question is, they snub him when he also needed the bosses drops -- and expect him to take the high road?

I would of taken their ignoring me as a slight and taught them a lesson or two about respect. And after they went QQ'ing to my Leader, same...

I think they need a game that has Rainbows and Sunshine... its two doors down to the right.

respect is earned not taught one day ppl will remember this

Skulla - Dreamweaver

No, this whole scenario would be if the Oreo cookies were on the plate, you beat me to the last cookie fair and square, I took the cookie from you and ate it in front of you then I went and bragged about it and SOME people were taking MY side and not yours.

That's the whole scenario here.

If people don't understand why what the OP did is wrong there is something wrong with them. And this comes as no surprise to me. It's all just a matter of scale.


I'm honestly done talking about this now...

Kudos to SmackaSmurf for this line: "respect is earned not taught one day ppl will remember this"

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If these lvl 70s were *not* after coin, what were they after. A challenge? As Thanos said, this boss isn't so much a challenge, as a test of endurance. It will not hit back; it will however, do nasty things to your channeling speed, as well as do an aoe stun every 6s. Oh, also reduces attack speed, and does an aoe hp debuff. Not so much challenging as *annoying as hell*.

Well maybe that's the reason they picked that WB? Because if you know you're weak and have no real idea of the strength of your opponent, obviously you'd want to pick one that you know is weaker.

Furthermore, the fact that these players got there so fast would indicate to me that they were seeking to kill the boss for a monetary gain. They obviously knew enough about this boss to know exactly where to find it, and that it would not hit back. So... they knew this, but they were really only *doing boss for a challenge* right?... hmmm.

Challenge, or fun. The faction I was in is a known TW faction that holds multiple lands, and they still do WBs. And they do the WBs as a massive faction event with like 20-30 people there. That doesn't really give any profit to most of the people participating, especially since all of the drops went to faction bank. And they still went there is such large numbers, even though they knew they could beat the boss with smaller numbers. No profit to be made there, yet they also had the expertise to know exactly where to find and how to survive it.

They could've been doing it because it was for fun. And besides, you don't know, maybe they were playing before maintenance, and planned the Soul Hunter kill during the maintenance downtime. That way, they could easily get there on time and know to survive.

Incidentally, on another note: I do TTs frequently. I mentioned I have an alt cleric right? I did some number crunching, and given the % chance of finding goodies from world bosses, TT will win out almost every time, for me. Why then am I even bothering to kill a world boss? Why? Aha! The answer: a change of pace---a challenge---drops chrono pages needed for my lvl 100 skills (recently finished culti). Again, if I were solely money-oriented as you mistakenly seem to think, I wouldn't have been there in the first place.

Well, in that case, what exactly gives you the right to any single boss, even if you can kill them faster? If you went by the amount of time it takes to kill a WB, then only the strongest faction on any server could kill WBs. You have no right whatsoever to rob others of their fun just because you want the profits.

For example, I can solo all of PQ with my sin. When I started killing the final boss solo, another assassin came to the spot. I could've easily used Shadow Escape to force the boss to attack the other sin, and that would've killed him off pretty easily as he was only level 60'ish. However, instead, I sacrificed some of my profit, e.g. my contribution and just didn't give a damn. In the end, I still came #1 on PQ, just with less of a lead. I could've gotten #2 as well. Also on PQs, you meet highly refined archers, who stand far away and constantly steal aggro from others. They then proceed to fly, which often resets the boss. I've had it happen quite a few times but I've never said anything about. Because it's not really that important.

It's just a game.

My point isn't exclusive to the game. It's a general principle in life. Just because you're better doesn't give you any right to ruin someone else's fun. That's like a professional soccer player going to a amateur game and scoring the winning goal just because he knew he could.

Eoria - Harshlands

Geez, people. Yeah, OP went and KSed a boss. Sure, it wasn't nice, but it's just a game and it happens all the time with world bosses..

I've done worse and had worse done to me. Hello having a rival guild wait to pk us at Sword Tamer until he was down to 5% HP and then subsequently take the boss for themselves.

MyuMyu - Harshlands

Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, this whole scenario would be if the Oreo cookies were on the plate, you beat me to the last cookie fair and square, I took the cookie from you and ate it in front of you then I went and bragged about it and SOME people were taking MY side and not yours.

That's the whole scenario here.

If people don't understand why what the OP did is wrong there is something wrong with them. And this comes as no surprise to me. It's all just a matter of scale.


I'm honestly done talking about this now...

you're done? I'm still waiting for your explanation based on your logic on this:

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what's next, if i hit first the boss in the tiger event i have the right to kill it myself?

WB, tiger events, archo assault, harpy, nien event, the upcoming rabbit event, dragon temple:
all occur rarely, have stuff that people really want and it's meant for people to fight for them.

KS is for mobs, bosses that respawn after 10-20min

CoA is another issue...if i can just go and kill the next boss there is no need to KS.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, this whole scenario would be if the Oreo cookies were on the plate, you beat me to the last cookie fair and square, I took the cookie from you and ate it in front of you then I went and bragged about it and SOME people were taking MY side and not yours.

That's the whole scenario here.

If people don't understand why what the OP did is wrong there is something wrong with them. And this comes as no surprise to me. It's all just a matter of scale.


I'm honestly done talking about this now...

the thing is, they didnt beat him to the last cookie aka kill the boss and then he poped, killed them and stole the drops. the boss was still there and kicking.

maybe if the drooling over cookies stopped you could try to explain what u mean betterb:cute
with reason and arguments, not metaphors that can be interpreted however u want.
before using one you should provide strong evidence about the linking.

anyway (less cookies, more pages):
the RULE of the WORLD is that the one that deals more damage to the boss gets the drops. if the GODS=DEVS of the world wanted to reward the one that first hit the boss with the drops they would make it so the first that hit it would get the drops.
or link the drops to the person that was nearest the boss when it spawned or to the one that waited the longer in the place.

what's ur point? the game clearly says: here is the boss, the one that deals the most damage to him gets the drops.

KSing has a sense when the are tons of mobs and killing the ones that someone else tries to kill has no point (besides irritating the one that is ks'ed).
plenty of mobs = no reason to fight for them

same applies to bosses with a short re-spawning time.

however that's not the case with a WB.
one boss, many players => they have to fight with it.
and personally, fighting who will DD the most is waaaay more fun than childish claims like "i saw it first it's mine" "i thought about killing it first it's mine"


all in all, I personally believe that there are a lot of ways to see this scenario.
i'm not going to say that if someone doesnt share my view there is something wrong him him (like u did)

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

I'd like to say, mathematically the level 70s taking 12 hours to kill the boss would have been insane. Soul Hunter would of made it nearly impossible for them to kill the boss within one sitting time of gameplay. I'm 100% sure that if Azzazin didn't kill the boss another group of hunters would have come and taken the boss. Heck, some players on Dreamweaver can solo world bosses in 10-12 minutes. Everyone was there right after maintenance as well, which also leads me to ask, where even all of the lv. 70s in the same squad? I mean, even if they where all in the same squad why would they need to kill a World Boss. Where they there for the quest mobs and one of them aggroed it and figured out "hey this guy doesn't do any damage let's kill it." World Bosses drop perfect shards, chrono pages, and oht mats, which are more used by higher levels than lower levels. If the lower levels weren't there for drops then they wouldn't have falsely complained to the faction leader about it also. They would have set there DDing and bragged about being able to DD on a World Boss that died in under one hour, with all of the stuns, reduced attack speed and reduced channeling. Imagine if you had a level ten barbarian with Blue Ball, Red Ball, and a cleric healing them to do an insanely high level mobs. Would you let that level ten barbarian set there and kill that mob, if it's the only mob and would take 12 hours for him to do? I know respectively the golden rule is to do what's best for everyone. Why was it best for the level 70s? Because it saved them a great portion of time and allowed them to continue on their day, to continue on with their mobs. Why was it best for the level 101? Because he needed the items that the boss drops for his skills. My opinion about the faction leader threatening to kick them for KSing is not too great. I believe a leader should look at everything, at the pro and cons of the situation. To believe that this is KSing is wrong, to be false, and horrible leadership. "kill stealing is the practice of arranging to get credit for killing an enemy, when it should have clearly been another player's kill." The level 70s were not clearly going to kill the boss. The OP didn't follow the level 70s around and kill their quest mobs after the world boss died either, he left the region. Anyways, the boss died, they all got experience and spirit from the portion of the boss that was killed. The drops went to the OP who decided to kill the world boss in a timely manner.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Alrighty, so here's another way of looking at this. The definition of 'kill steal' would be to 'steal the kill' or in PWI terms, do more than 50% damage to a mob/boss after somebody else hit it before you. What if, though, the 'kill' is not necessarily a certain thing? Lets take this to the extreme: imagine a lvl 1 veno was attacking the world boss in question here. Veno's not gonna die, boss does no dmg range. So if I waltz along and kill the boss after the veno has been there, whether it be 2 minutes or 2 hours, does this count as a kill steal? I hardly think so! The hp regen on the boss would prevent a lvl 1 veno from ever killing the boss no longer how long they tried.

Back to the situation I described in my first post; this small group of lvl 70s would have had to stay there an enormous amount of time to kill this boss. I estimate that during the 40-45minutes I spent at the boss, their cumulative dmg did not exceed 2million. Or, from another perspective, left to themselves, they'd have been there... forget 6 hours, they'd have been there half a day. Do I call that a certain kill? Hell no!

Hence, 'kill-steal'... I really can't see it. Me telling them I was going to kill the boss was more of a courtesy; 'Look there's no way you getting this kill, go save yourself some time, it'll be wasted here'.

Azzazin


FYI: My edits are for fixing grammar and stuff, I'm nit-picky about that in my own writing.

not gonna read the 5 pages but this is my 2 cents. kill steal means killing something someone else obviously has the intention of and is effectively (though perhaps nto efficiently) killing.

yes u ksed the group of 7x because they would have eventually killed it (or the next maintenance would have hit b:chuckle).

the example of the 1x toon is not ksing because sould hunter would have regened faster then the 1x could do damage. therefore not being in the process of effectively killing it.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

Also take into Mind, Sharpen Tooth Arrow or if you hit boss with Deicides that the hp would illusion to look like it decreased more than someone would have damaged.

Reashe - Heavens Tear

Killing anything that someone has already started to kill, is Kill Stealing, no matter how much anyone wants to paint it.

Saying that unfortunately in this game, it is allowed, though considered not a nice thing to do by decent people.........., but it is allowed.

They should have a first hit claims system, like you would find in FFXI, then you wouldnt have this issue.


b:victory b:victory b:victory

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also take into Mind, Sharpen Tooth Arrow or if you hit boss with Deicides that the hp would illusion to look like it decreased more than someone would have damaged.

OP says that they have done 100k damage. the hp of the boss is a bit less than 24mil so that's a 0.4% hp reduction. even lvl1 STA is 2.5%, sage soul degen is 20%
not sure how much soul infect on deicide is (but that's a 95 weapon anyway).

soul hunter starts stunning after 20min of battle so
100k in 20min (or more!), 24mil in 80h = 3 days (or more)

rofl