RE: The recent General Summer's Sale

Olbaze - Sanctuary

shinato187 wrote: »

So...... who's responsible for the gold prices going up hmm?, GM's?,PWE staff? ..... maybe I am just a noob but i thought those auction prices where set by the players not PWE employees.

Now here's something for you:
Badges can be gotten with Tokens
Tokens have a minimum price set in-game for 9,990

This means that Badges have a concrete minimum value in-game, at 79,920.

For Gold, you can get 100 badges for 0.9 Gold. This means that for 1 Gold, you can get on average 111.11 Badges.

Now, since the Badges have a minimum value of 9,990, for the Badges in Boutique to be equal in price to the ones you can get with with Tokens, Gold would have to be at 8,880,000 coins each. However, since it's less than 2,000,000, this means that the Gold sound in AH right now, coupled with the Reputation in Boutique, is relatively extremely cheap, if you have a use for Reputation, such as Rank 4 armor, Sages Weapons, Rank 8 or Rank 9.

So what they did was not directly affect the price, but they changed what you can get with it in-game. This is something only PWE can do via Boutique sales. And since most Gold is spent in the Boutique, sales in the Boutique are a one-step indirect way of manipulating Gold. However, this way, they can always play dumb and go "Oh well, it's the people, we're not forcing them to pay that much, we're only giving them this awesome deal".

Or they could just make it so u can sell your gold for lets say 200k each and people can buy for 200k each or you can put it up for sale at 200k each but not guaranteed that some1 will buy your gold. The limit thing would be somethign like 1-500k or 1-400k

The thing is, until recently, there was such as cap at 1,000,000 coins per Gold. But as you can see, it's gone up in smoke.

And any Gold price cap in the AH is flawed since the Boutique items are tradeable, people would just WC stuff such as "Selling 10G for 50,000,000, PM me" and then they'd make an arrangement where the seller buys the stuff from the Boutique and the other guy pays the price in a regular trade. And this is the future, it has happened in other games, so nothing would stop it from happening here.

ONE lv 70 person with rank 4 gear equiped

Yeah, well the Rank 4 chest requires a minimum of level 60 and 5,000 reputation. Unless you stop leveling to farm reputation or buy reputation from the boutique, it's practically impossible to get 5,000 reputation by Level 70, the reputation rewards from the quests just aren't even nearly enough.

As for the other pieces: The only common rank armor pieces are Rank 4 armor, Rank 6 armor, Sages Weapon and Rank 8 weapon and armor. Out of those, Rank 4 armor is decently common, you can see it around on many people, especially Assassins. Rank 6 armor is most common spotted with a Sages weapon, which in turn is often on a Cleric, Archer or Assassin. Rank 8 armor and weaponry were extremely rare, with only a few of them on every server. Now Rank 8 is pretty much everywhere.

Rank 8 has changed from being something that got your name known to being pretty much an expected endgame choice, especially for Archers and Sins for the -0.1 armor.

Oh and for people who were unable to read this guy's post due to no paragraphs:
What I did was I copy-pasted it into Word and put Enters in random places, basically making "fake" paragraph just to make is legible.

Dmgirl - Harshlands

shinato187 wrote: »

Um ok I havn't read most of the posts but from the ones I did read I saw lots of complaints about the gold prices...

Not gonna quote your entire post cause its kinda long, but gold price is really only a small factor of what's wrong in this picture.

What's really wrong I find here, and as most posts I see, is regarding how PWE treats people's effort like trash with excuses like "Well, on Chinese server people get to lvl 105 in 3 months"
-- regarding to this I'd like to point out, not sure about PWCN but most chinese web based RPG game I tried out of boredom goes through the same cycle: I got to lvl 30 in 20minutes (1st time playing too and don't know what the heck is going on). Got to lvl 50 in 2 hours (finally getting some hang of the game and concepts). People reach end game in 10 days, 15 tops. After 20 days of game a new server of this same game open up and all players hop server to start all over again (and yes, cashshop all over again, dono why but they do) leaving this server empty and dead.

Back on topic, R8, or even R6 with 35k rep, was something that people looked up to. Before, when we see an R8 archer, we admire their gear, we stay away from them outside of safezone if they're red name, and we dream that one day we would be able to get the same gear as them if ever possible before we have enough of this game and quit. In tw, R8 mages and archers are huge advantages to teams who have them. A waterdragon basically nukes the whole field, or easily take out the Catabarb / Catacleric. Versing them the general response would likely be "Gank the R8 before we're all dead"

Aside from the R8s, people had fun farming their gear. I can't tell you how happy I felt when I got my nirvana top 1st recast, or able to buy a neon purgatory +7. Same goes for others, when they got their 1st recast weapon, armor, or full TT99 set, or even for some their TT90 its a big accomplishment.

But all that is gone now with this update. Anything lower than R8 are like joke now. If I make an estimated guess at least 80% of mage, cleric psychics have general badge and R8 weapon. R8 is not a goal or accomplishment anymore, but merely turned into somewhat an minimum requirement for people to be considered descent. Now on world chat you can see things like "Fast GV squad 2nd wave looking for ... only R8s pm me. "
Any people who missed the chance or like me stand up for what we worked for and refuse to get R8 are turned into the drop-outs of this game.

Above that, people are worried about what other dreams and goals they have and want to work for that would son be trashed by PWE with some other sale. R9 fine, its a new goal, but who can guarantee that PWE won't make the chips 2 silver for 25packs cause "There aren't enough R9s in game" and then release R10 cause "The game have to constantly involve". Warsoul, who can guarantee PWE won't put that on boutique for a knockoff price cause "Only 2 people from all servers have it though warsoul was released very early in game, while people on CN server get it in a month since server release"

So yeah, people aren't really complaining about gold price (some are) but the main point is that PWE trash things people worked for or want to work for just for come quick surge in money making

XXManasa - Dreamweaver

All I see is a bunch of high lvl people QQing about other players that couldnt normally get good gear getting it now. Let me remind you all its not the gear that makes the player good. I've seen alot of higher lvl players (I'll use venos as an example) that can't tell the difference of something simple like pulling mobs to tanking everything and dieing. It always makes me snicker when they do this cause alot of us have the sense to do things right and take our time instead of our ego getting in the way. So for those of you that are crying about it all...just go back to doing what you do best and proving youre a better player.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now here's something for you:
Badges can be gotten with Tokens
Tokens have a minimum price set in-game for 9,990

This means that Badges have a concrete minimum value in-game, at 79,920.

...

If I understand your logic, flawless citrines have a concrete minumum value in-game of 915840 coins, since that is how much they cost buying shabbies from merchants and combining them. (But personally, I do not think that "minumum" is the right word to use.)

Meanwhile, from my point of view, the cost of rank 8 weapon, using in-game coins, right now, is way less than the cost of a nirvana weapon. On sanctuary, it was less than the in game cost of a lunar weapon.

Anyways, I am amazed at the levels of incoherent rage I have been seeing.

I think I understand the things people are trying to assert (that the advantage they built up over the last couple years was mostly wasted, and that they feel that their time was wasted because of that).

But... on the other hand... this is a game. By definition, all time spent on a game is wasted, except for the memories and the fun. But, still... the game...

So, anyways, my impression, lately, has been that they have been getting their money from people wanting to level new characters quickly. People buy games for $30..$60, so dropping that much on a character here and playing for a few dozen hours matches a major demographic. So they are almost obligated to cater to that crowd.

But, also, this is an MMO and having a long term supply of faithful players can add some good things to the atmosphere, even if they are not huge money makers (and over time, people with the $30 for a few dozen hours of fun mentality will also pull in a lot of dollars if they have some of those in their long term players).

So... anyways... I believe they have announced that the new expansion will have some major new end game content. Personally, I am curious to see if I actually enjoy that content.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I understand your logic, flawless citrines have a concrete minumum value in-game of 915840 coins, since that is how much they cost buying shabbies from merchants and combining them. (But personally, I do not think that "minumum" is the right word to use.)

10 x tokens = 1 ine = 1 triumph money = 99,999

14x tokens = 1x flawless citrine = 140k

8xtokens = rep badge = 80k

Don't quite get your logic b:sad

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I understand your logic, flawless citrines have a concrete minumum value in-game of 915840 coins, since that is how much they cost buying shabbies from merchants and combining them. (But personally, I do not think that "minumum" is the right word to use.)

Yes, that was pre-Tokens. With Tokens, the minimum is 139,860. Which explains exactly why flawless and immaculate shards jumped in popularity when Tokens were introduced: it, too was insanely cheaper than the previous options.

And yes, I suppose "minimum" is a bit of a strange choice, as people can still sell them at a lower price. I suppose "base value" would be better, which is from there altered depending on buyer and seller: some want to get rid of them faster, so they sell lower, some want to buy them faster, so they pay more.

So, anyways, my impression, lately, has been that they have been getting their money from people wanting to level new characters quickly. People buy games for $30..$60, so dropping that much on a character here and playing for a few dozen hours matches a major demographic. So they are almost obligated to cater to that crowd.

Of course. The most common logic behind justifying WoW costs is that it costs 15$ a month which is about 1-2 movie tickets. Movies last at most 3 hours, so that's 3-6 hours of entertainment, whereas you can play WoW a lot more than 3 hours in a month.

But, also, this is an MMO and having a long term supply of faithful players can add some good things to the atmosphere, even if they are not huge money makers (and over time, people with the $30 for a few dozen hours of fun mentality will also pull in a lot of dollars if they have some of those in their long term players).

Well, that'd be true if the game was the only source of income. However, it's not, as they have multiple games, so one doing bad is balanced by the others, unless they all do worse than expected.

And due to the nature of the game, they can just kill the game and restart it after some months. For example, they could completely shut down the PWI servers and take down the forums for a year. After a year, they could put them back up and put an effective gag on anyone who'd speak about the previous incarnation of the game. That'd basically guarantee a clean slate of customers, which would mean they could repeat the same cycle, just with slightly less profits, as a 100% fool-proof gagging is impossible.

So... anyways... I believe they have announced that the new expansion will have some major new end game content. Personally, I am curious to see if I actually enjoy that content.

Um, didn't they say the same about the Tideborn expansion? And the only thing we got was one instance that was a bit different from the others. And really, it didn't change anything, pre-TB people would farm the highest TTs for profits.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, that was pre-Tokens. With Tokens, the minimum is 139,860. Which explains exactly why flawless and immaculate shards jumped in popularity when Tokens were introduced: it, too was insanely cheaper than the previous options.

And yes, I suppose "minimum" is a bit of a strange choice, as people can still sell them at a lower price.

Yes, exactly, and when I last looked, gold had a 4 million coin cap on its price, so on any server where gold can be bought, wraith's officer badges cost 36k- (yesterday, on sanctuary, they were about 7.7k).

Anyways, from my point of view, they had a problem where too many coins in the game were not hitting their coin sinks, and they finally realized that they could instead rebalance the game, and turn a profit doing so.

The net effect of rank 8, on the long-term (level 100+) population, looks roughly like buying a boxed expansion -- the price is maybe a bit higher, but it's a voluntary thing: people that want to wait for the free version have every right to do so, and people with in-game resources can trade some of them to the paying population, for the usual sort of quasi-economic win-win situation. (And, if they are rebalancing the game, there does not seem to be much use in holding onto your current hoard -- and, yes, I am one of those hoarders, and I have been struggling with how I want to deal with this issue, a lot. I still have not decided if or how I want to deal, but this current situation just seems like a logical extension of the previous situation.)

Khroy - Dreamweaver

Skinnard - Lost City wrote: »

what does saving money via being thrifty to get rank 8 have to do with spending on a spouse? sure shes more important but that doesn't mean you have to cry on forums instead of saving a bit and getting rank 8 for yourself. no loss anywhere.

was just makeing a point because someone said that people should save money by not doing things with a spouse and spend it on a game

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

frankieraye wrote: »

Hey guys,


I know a lot of you are shocked about the recent General Summer's Sale items and their pricing. PWI has been out for 2+ years now, and even finding someone in full Rank 8 is still very rare, let alone Rank 9. Under the original conditions, even one player on a server obtaining a rank 9 ring would have been next to impossible, considering the amount of rep, chips, and Medals of Glory necessary. Remember, these original conditions were created by developers from a different country and different gaming culture--one where it is commonplace and even expected to play for eight hours a day, every day--a place where level 105 was achieved within three months of its release.

It's no secret that obtaining this gear has been next to impossible for the vast majority of PWI players, and a lot of our work in the past month has involved bringing it within reach, both through the Dragon Points system and through this month's sales.

We realize that some of the players who are the most upset are those who have spent countless hours farming their TT and Nirvana gear, only to see this Rank gear that is more powerful now take less effort to obtain. I understand the frustration that is felt from this, but the nature of the MMO is to constantly be evolving over time, where more powerful gear is constantly made available, rendering older gear less powerful by comparison. Many of these players have decided to take action, adapting by selling their old gear for millions of coins to buy gold and start making their way toward Rank 8.

PWI is evolving. We realize that one of the major complaints about the Rising Tide expansion was that we were too focused on creating the new races and classes, and didn't create enough new content for the existing high level players. Let me assure you that this has been taken into account with the upcoming Genesis expansion. We are bringing in tons of new content which includes new end-game features that involve more guild and TW related mechanisms, along with a ton of other stuff.

In the past few weeks we've been spending a lot of time pooling and putting together lots of new information about this huge expansion, and we'll be releasing it to you in a very fun way next week.

There is a lot of exciting content on the horizon, and we hope that you'll continue to stick with us to enjoy everything that we have to offer.


Thanks all.

tl;dr

F U, pay me.

Faynalia - Sanctuary

The new Nirvana upgrade to G16 with added Bonuses look amazing! Just thought I would point that out for those freaking about Rank 8 b:laughb:bye

azurluen

frankieraye wrote: »

It's no secret that obtaining this gear has been next to impossible for the vast majority of PWI players, and a lot of our work in the past month has involved bringing it within reach, both through the Dragon Points system and through this month's sales.


Thanks all.

But, you forgot to cut the price of the Rep things from DQ Rewards! If you really want us to get it, why not put it at only 10 Dragon Points or so?

(''\('^ '=)/'')

Identical - Lost City

Please don't throw up please don't throw up. DAMN IT HE THREW UP!

Selth - Dreamweaver

I'm kinda peeved that this is going on. I barley ply these things, modtly cause it's hard to lvl.

Siiobhan - Archosaur

azurluen wrote: »

But, you forgot to cut the price of the Rep things from DQ Rewards! If you really want us to get it, why not put it at only 10 Dragon Points or so?

(''\('^ '=)/'')

+1 to this

Lycanthar - Sanctuary

Faynalia - Sanctuary wrote: »

The new Nirvana upgrade to G16 with added Bonuses look amazing! Just thought I would point that out for those freaking about Rank 8 b:laughb:bye

troll harder

Andres - Dreamweaver

I just have one request after you already screwed us over. again.

Make nirvana TT gear tradeable (lose the bound status after the first cast), or give us the option to decompose it into something better than whatever mirages you get from it right now. like a % of the crystals we spent on the gear, so we can sell them in the market for something better than merchant value.

There's no reason for Nirvana TT gear not to be tradeable, it uses the same amount of canny/rapture crystals than lunar nirvana gear, it undergoes the same process that the lunar gold gear goes during it's making. It's even more expensive to get nirvana version of certain gear pieces than it is for lunar.

Nirvana gear has lower defenses than lunar, an add (+4% elemental/phys defense) that only evens out defenses when you make a full TT nirvana set, cost exactly the same to make (100-150 cannies, 100-150 raptures). The only reason behind the bound status is the computer logic that an item cannot lose it's bound status once equipped. This shouldn't be a reason for anyone to lose millions of coins, when, as frankie said on his original post, the "aim" is to have us "evolve" gear-wise.

I see my friends selling their lunar weapons, their lunar gear. I have nirvana TT sets. I can't sell, if I can't sell, I can't salvage any earning, without them, I can't make progress, frankie's logic is once again. faulty.

TT fix and DQ nerf was going to fix the excessive amounts of coins in the game economy. That still doesn't happen.
TW pay fix was going to stop fake bidding, was going to stabilize the prices of gold and the dominant factions. And since the TW pay fix 2 factions painted 2 different servers, and other servers are starting to show dominance too.

How many more times you have to be proven wrong until you take actions for your customers?

Iulius - Heavens Tear

soon TT99 gold will be just fail even +10 so awsome PWI cut down the players that dont pay to play. to bad this game was awsome at some point and so meny good ppl fell inlove but now they puke at this

Nyxsa - Heavens Tear

b:surrenderI'm not even going to deny that I've thought about quitting PWI because of all these special additives. I'm not saying ppl dont have a right to purchase things, it is purely their choice but it does make it harder for those who try to keep the positive on obtaining things others can so easily get with a nice charge to zen.

I think the idea of someone able to reach the end-game status so easily is both good and bad -- clearly bad for those who took the effort to reaching it on their own without the help of any sale, and good because it gives others a shot at it.

However, within these few weeks it seems harder and harder to enjoy this game simply because the economy itself has taken a turn for the worse. Really almost 1mil for a single gold? I'm sure it is higher on other servers so it means to avoid Gold Trading at all costs now. Now, sadly and probably a bit late for me to have realized now the TT mats I farm are no longer selling which was one way I was making my coin. So all I have left is to farm the normal, stressful way, yet even that has its downside as it feels like PWI has slimmed down the drop rate since the DQ point system. It is hard to make the coin now, hard to deal with the expenses people request for these items therefore ruining the idea of f2p. I've decided it is IMPOSSIBLE to raise coin for a herc/nix unless charging for whatever amount is needed for one, so I'm out on that loop. It is getting harder and harder to keep up with the rise of these sales and price people place on them. But, I've worked too hard to quit which makes it difficult to leave, but I swear I just wish for this economy rate to go down and return DQs to what they used to be.


Course, this is just a thought likely ignored like everyone else's here. Never hurts to try, eh? b:chuckle

Marche - Harshlands

you guys cry to much get over it and play the damn game or gtfo so sick of seeing people whine and complain cuz of the cash shop it wont change get the **** over it

be thank full if anything before you would cry cuz R8/event gear/nixs/Nirvana is to much and no one can get it except heavy cash shoppers who would then turn around roll your face and make u RQ the game

NOW you have a chance to be on the same LEVEL as those heavy cash shoppers who spent 1.6k to get r8 and your going to cry about it? like **** will anything make you people happy?

removing packs wont cuz then a big part of your income in game goes away

taking rep out wont cuz then the lower ppl that cant afford to sell gold for HH99 mats and nirvana gear will be face rolled

take out hypers people will ***** about how hard it is to lvl

nurf hell spark cuz you get faced rolled by a class that uses fists as a main wep and then your farming goes down to 1 or 2 nirvanas an hour instead of like 10 and then well the rest of ur coin is gone

really NOTHING PWI do will make you happy so suck it up grow some balls play the game or leave

franki dosnt need to be ******* out for something thats NOT his fault good lord


this game IS and will always be free to play and while CS sucks its THAT CS that makes this game free to play no one is holding a gun to your head and saying CASH SHOP r9 OR ELSE

-.- rant done im going to bed zzzz

oh btw i now have a r8 alt i farmed it all in 2 days all the coin so **** with the OMGZZZZ WTFZMANG I NEED TO CS TO GET R8 get off ur asses and go ****in farm

Nyxsa - Heavens Tear

Wow, first post I ever did and I got my throat torn open. Forums are so dangerous! b:chuckleI

TankedBeast - Lost City

it would be totally awesome if they put a unbinding charm in game if they are going to impliment new end game gear. Or i guess i could just forget about RL and get another char high enough to use my already bound gear...

NiteMareish - Sanctuary

hmmmmmm...

Andres - Dreamweaver

Marche - Harshlands wrote: »

you guys cry to much get over it and play the damn game or gtfo so sick of seeing people whine and complain cuz of the cash shop it wont change get the **** over it

be thank full if anything before you would cry cuz R8/event gear/nixs/Nirvana is to much and no one can get it except heavy cash shoppers who would then turn around roll your face and make u RQ the game

NOW you have a chance to be on the same LEVEL as those heavy cash shoppers who spent 1.6k to get r8 and your going to cry about it? like **** will anything make you people happy?

removing packs wont cuz then a big part of your income in game goes away

taking rep out wont cuz then the lower ppl that cant afford to sell gold for HH99 mats and nirvana gear will be face rolled

take out hypers people will ***** about how hard it is to lvl

nurf hell spark cuz you get faced rolled by a class that uses fists as a main wep and then your farming goes down to 1 or 2 nirvanas an hour instead of like 10 and then well the rest of ur coin is gone

really NOTHING PWI do will make you happy so suck it up grow some balls play the game or leave

franki dosnt need to be ******* out for something thats NOT his fault good lord


this game IS and will always be free to play and while CS sucks its THAT CS that makes this game free to play no one is holding a gun to your head and saying CASH SHOP r9 OR ELSE

-.- rant done im going to bed zzzz

oh btw i now have a r8 alt i farmed it all in 2 days all the coin so **** with the OMGZZZZ WTFZMANG I NEED TO CS TO GET R8 get off ur asses and go ****in farm

Sense. You're not making any.

Remove all your sand, then fix your response so we can understand your arguments.

All the latest posts are pretty much agreeing that whether their call or china's call, this won't change. But we're dabbling ideas as to how the time and effort put to gear that's no longer endgame won't go to waste, when frankie's own suggestion was, re-sell, upgrade.

Dont get your panties in a bunch b:chuckle QQing about QQers makes u look like a real troll

Born_Free - Harshlands

Marche - Harshlands wrote: »

Long Wall of Rage text

For the first time Marche, I have to strongly disagree with your logic.
You're biased on most of this information because you ARE a heavy CashShopper.
You ARE 5aps. You ARE demonsparked. You ARE Rank8.

I used to be the same way, and people would rage on my old cleric because I supported the updates and was so biased because I was a super CashShopper. So I rolled a Psychic F2P just to see what it felt like to be those people who raged at my support for the Cash Shop items.

I KNOW you've been here a long time Marche...you know it's not right that Endgame gear is being handed literally on a silver platter to nabs who don't even know how to use it. It's EXACTLY like when they stuck Warsoul in packs. To say otherwise is very foolish.

angellicdeity

frankieraye wrote: »

Hey guys,

Remember, these original conditions were created by developers from a different country and different gaming culture--one where it is commonplace and even expected to play for eight hours a day, every day--a place where level 105 was achieved within three months of its release.

Communism really works....



But really I dont mind this sale. It'll make things more interesting in terms of TW and all. It should give the smaller factions a fighting chance.

Notgood - Raging Tide

opps put in wrong spot :x

Heavy_arm - Harshlands

Well honstly not the best idea puting Rank8\9 in the boutique where does that leave people who cant afford it and plus making the heavy cser even stronger and leaving the people who are not decked out in gear to probably leave the game which i am planning to do, So if PWE wants to be the best you got to think in ways to entice people not make leave.......that is all

Marche - Harshlands

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

.
You're biased on most of this information because you ARE a heavy CashShopper.

only thing i wanna quote cuz LOLOLOLOLOLOL you think i cash shop LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOL mang i dont cash shop at all actually so u need to get ur facts straight best way to do that born player info me some time rofl have u seen my gear?

why is it when some one who works for the shet they have rolls some one else first thing that is said is they cash shop >:O

sorry hun but there is a difference between cash shopping where you roll ur face on the keys with a credit card like you have downsyndrome and actual skill because you know your class..... p.s its kinda insulting

NightRage - Raging Tide

angellicdeity wrote: »

But really I dont mind this sale. It'll make things more interesting in terms of TW and all. It should give the smaller factions a fighting chance.

You realize TW died about 4-5 months ago right?

Marche - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

You realize TW died about 4-5 months ago right?

they r redoing the full TW system apparently in the new expansion instance and all so TW may come back ( i miss it QQ