My concerns, Frankie.

chaoticrampage
chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
edited October 2010 in General Discussion
So let me get this straight: When threads in violation of the forum rules are closed and moved quickly, people cry foul and that the mods are too strict/don't know what they're doing/are communist/don't understand the forums

Then when violation threads stay up for longer, you say that we're not doing our job. Can you see the disconnect here?

Technically a lot of threads are in violation of forum rules. The rules as of right now are so unclear that nearly anything we post can be in violation of some rule, but that isn't what I'm here to argue.

When threads are in violation of the rules and are dealt with swiftly I believe it's good, but only if they really do need to be moved or locked. Some of the threads the new mods moved did indeed need it, but others were fine where they were. My main concern is that they can't distinguish what does and does not need moving/closing.

Threads that were nowhere near as bad as the "Unmentionable thread" were closed or moved within an hour of being created. The "Unmentionable thread" remained open for four hours with people actively posting on it while we had Moderators online. If they weren't on then I could understand that. I'm not saying I'd approve, because when the thread was made it was at a decent time in the U.S and if the Mods were in the same timezone as majority of your players the thread would have been closed anyway.

If Mods were online during the time the thread why was it not closed sooner? I'd also like to know just why Shelly responded to me with "Maybe we have a reason for not closing it sooner?" What would that reason be? If there's a reason for not closing a thread like that immediately I'd love to know what it is.

Also, Shelly posted on the thread that you closed twice and took no action against it. If the thread was worth of being locked and your Mod didn't do it when they could have, do you think they're really doing their job?

(I mean none of this in offense, Frankie, I just want some honest answers from you. Since you locked my thread I'm creating this thread to ask those questions.)
Post edited by chaoticrampage on
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Comments

  • ragenight
    ragenight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    And why is it, frankie, that someone can call PWE staff "egotistical pricks" and get banned, but another person can say "F you," call every name under the sky, post pornography and insinuate that you're a ***** and not get banned?

    A little consistency would be nice.
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Write a book on "How to be a forum mod" already. b:byeb:surrender
    or just read http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/guide-life-parts-1-2 xD
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    Current Goals: none.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    chaoticrampage wrote: »
    If Mods were online during the time the thread why was it not closed sooner? I'd also like to know just why Shelly responded to me with "Maybe we have a reason for not closing it sooner?" What would that reason be? If there's a reason for not closing a thread like that immediately I'd love to know what it is.

    This is one of my biggest concerns. An unmentionable thread that went out of it's way to break multiple rules has no reason to be left up for six pages, never mind one hundred and six pages.

    If you were trying to prove a point to your player base, you failed miserably and you need to be slapped around the ****ing face for thinking your player base would learn anything by letting such a vulgar thread remain. That thread overstayed it's welcome to every possible degree and there is no excuse for leaving it open to hit one hundred or more pages. Nothing.

    The only thing you have taught people on these forums is that you pick incompetent moderators who can't properly distinguish a thread that needs a lock from a thread that needs a warning, and that you are seriously out of your head if you think a thread like the one we won't name needed to stay up. All that was proven was that you have let utter stupidity take over these forums, when you ignored the civil and honest questions posed to you.

    That's it.

    You've taught the forum users that you don't listen to the civil posts while jumping on the negative, and then just giving up completely when everybody stops being civil because you didn't listen. You've taught them how shot and how dead these forums are.

    GG.

    I really can't understand it. You claimed in a thread we were demanding mods with in game experience. Let me make it clear what the people who you banned and a couple of those who outright left for the negligence wanted:

    We wanted moderators with experience. Moderators who had been here long enough to be known to be competent at their job because these were moderators we could respect to half a degree and trust to the same measure to do their jobs. Instead we got newbie mods who have locked and moved threads that they never needed to touch, while letting other threads that did need to be dealt with sit and rot openly.

    Get what we were asking for yet, Frankie?

    Better yet, do you understand why we asked?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Feel free to merge this thread with this one. I started writing this before that had been posted. xP
    frankierae wrote: »
    So let me get this straight: When threads in violation of the forum rules are closed and moved quickly, people cry foul and that the mods are too strict/don't know what they're doing/are communist/don't understand the forums

    Then when violation threads stay up for longer, you say that we're not doing our job. Can you see the disconnect here?
    frankieraye wrote: »
    After the severe backlash to the mods, I asked them to leave threads in general discussion alone, lest they incite more riots.

    /facepalm

    Wow... after all this time, apparently you don't even have a clue. Way to wrap it up in sarcasm, ignorance and top it off with insult and *pat pat* good GM. *sigh* Nice of you to mock the users for being upset at moderators not doing a job you told them not to do. lol I don't even know where to go with that.

    People are sick and tired of a half-arsed moderation team who are stretched out way too thin with far too much of a work load to be of any value and are tired of the typical 'put it in a sticky, let it brew, move everything there, lock and lower depth and summarily ignore' any valid concern that is on the collective mind of the player base has to express.

    That's not directly your fault, but that of your company. The real issue includes the neglect and apparently deceptive reassurance that anything that happens here actually matters. Well, after nearly 2 years, many of these long time players, some of which have been very loyal and helpful members here on the forums just can't take it anymore.

    Yeah, it's not your fault that your company doesn't give a rat's **** what you suggest to them, that much has become glaringly apparent over the long haul. Or perhaps instead it's just the fact you guys are laughing as you tell us what you think we want to hear then whispering how we're freaking idiots for believing anything you have to say. Which one of those do you like better?

    Sure, there are idiots that are just here complaining and trolling... don't be one of them and try to actually realize what's going on... not that it matters, you still get paid if you give a **** or don't.

    I'd actually like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing a post like this it's really hard to. GG to you either way.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I didn't read your post, but the quote made me laugh.
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    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ragenight wrote: »
    And why is it, frankie, that someone can call PWE staff "egotistical pricks" and get banned, but another person can say "F you," call every name under the sky, post pornography and insinuate that you're a ***** and not get banned?

    A little consistency would be nice.

    Honestly I'm a little curious about this as well, I'm amazed that I haven't been banned yet. I honestly thought that after that thread I made I'd have been banned within two hours.

    Anyway... still waiting on Frankie to answer me, I know he's on the forums at the moment. Frankie if you're reading this, an answer would be much appreciated.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    deja vu
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »
    I didn't read your post, but the quote made me laugh.

    Same, it's basically the same story over and over again. : \
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    Current Goals: none.
  • ragenight
    ragenight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    frankie doesn't know what the terms "consistency" and "happy medium" are.
  • SerenityMare - Dreamweaver
    SerenityMare - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ragenight wrote: »
    And why is it, frankie, that someone can call PWE staff "egotistical pricks" and get banned, but another person can say "F you," call every name under the sky, post pornography and insinuate that you're a ***** and not get banned?

    A little consistency would be nice.

    I hope they don't think they're Gods. >w>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    chaoticrampage wrote: »
    Also, Shelly posted on the thread that you closed twice and took no action against it. If the thread was worth of being locked and your Mod didn't do it when they could have, do you think they're really doing their job?
    One thing I've learned as an employer is that if you expect perfection from your employees and don't tolerate any less, soon you will have no employees. Real people are not perfect. They make mistakes. You have to lower your expectations to a more realistic level in order to create a functional work environment. In particular, I'm willing to cut new employees a lot of slack as they learn.

    Tolerance and understanding goes both ways. If you do not tolerate mistakes by others, don't be surprised when you find yourself being judged by the same standard.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Guys, if it's the same old story over again, instead of sighing about it as if it's a bad thing, consider the fact multiple users are saying the same thing in honest opinions. (I won't say civil. It got past that point when the morons on the staff team let that unspeakable thread live.)

    Frankie, I know you're online. I know you're locking threads that are exactly like this one because you don't have the ****ing balls to stand up and answer the questions we're asking you.

    Go ahead. Be sarcastic like in that quote, and act like an ignoramus. See how your player base takes it when they've tried the honest approach again after your huge failures as a CM last night.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    One thing I've learned as an employer is that if you expect perfection from your employees and don't tolerate any less, soon you will have no employees. Real people are not perfect. They make mistakes. You have to lower your expectations to a more realistic level in order to create a functional work environment. In particular, I'm willing to cut new employees a lot of slack as they learn.

    Tolerance and understanding goes both ways. If you do not tolerate mistakes by others, don't be surprised when you find yourself being judged by the same standard.
    Agreed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    To be or not to be.
    Current Goals: none.
  • ragenight
    ragenight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    One thing I've learned as an employer is that if you expect perfection from your employees and don't tolerate any less, soon you will have no employees. Real people are not perfect. They make mistakes. You have to lower your expectations to a more realistic level in order to create a functional work environment. In particular, I'm willing to cut new employees a lot of slack as they learn.

    Tolerance and understanding goes both ways. If you do not tolerate mistakes by others, don't be surprised when you find yourself being judged by the same standard.

    Perfection and competency are very, very far apart.
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    One thing I've learned as an employer is that if you expect perfection from your employees and don't tolerate any less, soon you will have no employees. Real people are not perfect. They make mistakes. You have to lower your expectations to a more realistic level in order to create a functional work environment. In particular, I'm willing to cut new employees a lot of slack as they learn.

    Tolerance and understanding goes both ways. If you do not tolerate mistakes by others, don't be surprised when you find yourself being judged by the same standard.

    It's not that I can't tolerate mistakes, I've tolerate everything that's been thrown our way up until now. My problem is that Shelly, the one who locked or moved a majority of threads on the Heaven's Tear forums without much of a good reason, posted on that thread twice without locking it when Frankie himself deemed it worthy of a lock. That shows poor judgement on Shelly's part. That's what I'm concerned with.
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    After the severe backlash to the mods, I asked them to leave threads in general discussion alone, lest they incite more riots. I told them I'd handle them personally, which is why some threads were left open longer than they should have been, as I can't be online and patrolling at every moment.

    This is what shelly was referring to
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  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I agree with Frankie. You are all a bunch of raving lunatics. The community in the forums just plain sucks.


    Frankie, uphold this, and I believe everything else will fall in place.


    You may not use the Perfect World International (PWI) Forums to:

    1. Transmit unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content. Profanity filter dodging and filtered words/statements with clear vulgar intent will also be considered outright violations.
  • ragenight
    ragenight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    After the severe backlash to the mods, I asked them to leave threads in general discussion alone, lest they incite more riots. I told them I'd handle them personally, which is why some threads were left open longer than they should have been, as I can't be online and patrolling at every moment.

    This is what shelly was referring to

    Any answer to my question?

    Ignoring the obvious hilarity in the above statement for the time being.
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    After the severe backlash to the mods, I asked them to leave threads in general discussion alone, lest they incite more riots. I told them I'd handle them personally, which is why some threads were left open longer than they should have been, as I can't be online and patrolling at every moment.

    This is what shelly was referring to


    Thanks for answering one of my questions, now would you mind answering the rest?
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    chaoticrampage wrote: »
    Thanks for answering one of my questions, now would you mind answering the rest?

    Is it a test to see how humane he is or something?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    To be or not to be.
    Current Goals: none.
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I agree with Frankie. You are all a bunch of raving lunatics. The community in the forums just plain sucks.


    Frankie, uphold this, and I believe everything else will fall in place.


    You may not use the Perfect World International (PWI) Forums to:

    1. Transmit unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content. Profanity filter dodging and filtered words/statements with clear vulgar intent will also be considered outright violations.

    Yeah, great job he's doing upholding that. A lot of people that broke that very rule multiple times still haven't been banned.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    After the severe backlash to the mods, I asked them to leave threads in general discussion alone, lest they incite more riots. I told them I'd handle them personally, which is why some threads were left open longer than they should have been, as I can't be online and patrolling at every moment.

    This is what shelly was referring to

    Which, for all it's good intentions, was a complete failure of a move, Frankie.

    Just ****ing admit it, you failed absolutely epically in picking moderators with any real kind of experience, particularly on these forums which are already so volatile because of their neglect. Something I know you've heard before but maybe refuse to accept.

    Telling the mods to leave threads in General Discussion alone was a stupid move and only helped to make everybody look ridiculously incompetent, including you.

    Come on Frankie. Read it.

    We asked for competent moderators who had experience on these forums. People who we knew at least a little, so that we could be relatively sure they would do a good job after Aryanna left. People who we could trust to some extent from the get-go so we avoided all of this bull****.

    Stop pretending we asked for moderators who knew the game and start realising we asked for moderators who knew these forums. These forums are not FW forums FFS Frankie, nor is General Discussion in particular a place where all the leet spammers like Grim ever hung out.

    You failed. Badly.

    It would be nice if you could just accept the fact you screwed up, misinterpreted what was asked of you in picking mods, and if you accepted the fact people are angry at you for good ****ing reasons rather then this nit picky bull**** you're trying to pretend we spew.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Cun - Lost City wrote: »
    Is it a test to see how humane he is or something?

    No, I just want to know why Frankie can only answer one question out of the many I have.
  • ragenight
    ragenight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ok, I couldn't resist.

    Maybe if you have to tell your moderators to not police certain forums, you need to hire moderators that can.

    But still, looking for an answer to my question on page 1.
    ragenight wrote: »
    And why is it, frankie, that someone can call PWE staff "egotistical pricks" and get banned, but another person can say "F you," call every name under the sky, post pornography and insinuate that you're a ***** and not get banned?

    A little consistency would be nice.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You are all a bunch of raving lunatics. The community in the forums just plain sucks.

    Takes one to know one, Aubree.

    The forums doesn't just suck because of people like us, sweety.

    <3
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • chaoticrampage
    chaoticrampage Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Originally posted by ChaoticShelly
    If anyone has any concerns in regards to the moderation team, they are more than welcome to PM either FrankieRaye or one of us - we will appreciate it. Posting on the forum will solve nothing, especially not like this.

    When people try to PM Frankie it mainly just gets ignored. It takes ages to even get a response, let alone have anything done about the issue. The only thing people really can do is post their concerns on the forums, granted Ambition was just trolling there my point remains valid because you Mods have proven yourselves to be too inexperienced to actually be of use to the people that would be sending the PMs.
  • haybails
    haybails Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    There are many theories about this. It's a question of syphoning through them all for the most plausible theories.


    We wouldn't want to spoil anything either, would we now?
  • Sabatier - Raging Tide
    Sabatier - Raging Tide Posts: 212 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    perhaps if your pm is free of expletives and explosive rhetoric you get a faster response?

    just a thought.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gross1255
    gross1255 Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    There you go, I have no pm'd both frankie and chaoticshelly my views and concerns on the situation with no expletives whatsoever. We will no compare response time to a pm with more expletivesb:victory
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Sabatier - Raging Tide wrote: »
    perhaps if your pm is free of expletives and explosive rhetoric you get a faster response?

    just a thought.

    Oh look, it's the 3x noob who's clearly never actually tried to PM Frankie anything, be it polite, civil, nice or absolutely raging.

    Perhaps if your post is free of stupid, more people listen?

    IJS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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