is there any class that can't beat us

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Maybe you don't know what "show me" means. It means "put up or shut up". You would rather accuse me of some wrong doing than correct it yourself. I submit it is because I made you look foolish and speaking out of both sides of your mouth and to make an unsupported smear was the only thing you COULD do. So if I'm wrong, SHOW ME. If not, b:shutup

And I don't think of myself as "some great" anything. And call me pompous if you like, but again that is just more name calling.

And as for "unique" ideas, I am not sure there is very much here that is "unique". This game is well enough aged that, aside perhaps from the pointless threads about "new mage skills" (what a colossal waste of time), tell me what "unique" posts there are in the last several months, let alone those posted by you, or what proportion they are in comparison to all of the posts here.

Do THAT, and I am sooooo sure we will see that these forums are only here for contribution of "unique ideas" by you and those you deem worthy.

And you say I come across as pompous . . . .

I've tried "showing you", I've concluded its just a waste of my time. You rarely acknowledge any logic and just pick at the minor points instead of the main idea. Now I just point out when you are wrong for my own enjoyment and so that any new wizard reading your posts know that what you said was not generally accepted by others. I don't recall feeling foolish in any of my arguments with you, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

There are always unique ideas in a game like this. Things change, and people understand things better as time goes on. IMO, you are still in this catch up phase because you are relatively new to the wizard forums.. you share some of the same common misconceptions that new wizards have (go LA for the survivability was the first post I saw of yours.. lol). There is a ton of information available on the wizard forums, and everyone needs time to "catch up" on the hundreds and hundreds of threads that led to the viewpoints that the community shares today.

Just for shucks I found a post I really liked by Amour about psychics. It really got me thinking about them, which is really all a post is supposed to do. There will always be unique ideas being that the game is always changing, but you really don't know what is unique because you haven't seen all there is out there. It'll come with time I'm sure, but you act like you are an authority when it comes to wizards, and I just don't see you that way.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I've tried "showing you", I've concluded its just a waste of my time. You rarely acknowledge any logic and just pick at the minor points instead of the main idea. Now I just point out when you are wrong for my own enjoyment and so that any new wizard reading your posts know that what you said was not generally accepted by others. I don't recall feeling foolish in any of my arguments with you, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

There are always unique ideas in a game like this. Things change, and people understand things better as time goes on. IMO, you are still in this catch up phase because you are relatively new to the wizard forums.. you share some of the same common misconceptions that new wizards have (go LA for the survivability was the first post I saw of yours.. lol). There is a ton of information available on the wizard forums, and everyone needs time to "catch up" on the hundreds and hundreds of threads that led to the viewpoints that the community shares today.

Just for shucks I found a post I really liked by Amour about psychics. It really got me thinking about them, which is really all a post is supposed to do. There will always be unique ideas being that the game is always changing, but you really don't know what is unique because you haven't seen all there is out there. It'll come with time I'm sure, but you act like you are an authority when it comes to wizards, and I just don't see you that way.

I've learned a ton of stuff in here, which is why I come. And, I don't wanna hear about how crappy our class is. The truth is the truth, but we are not crappy. Every class has got something to complain about. No class is bullet proof. That's the beauty of the game. I wanna hear about success, and different successful methods.

And, here's mine for the noobs: I have cheap middle class gear (none of that diamond of tiger sharding warsong gear for me), but I can blow through Frost like **** thru a goose with friends that trust. I only have 2 things that are notable: a whole lot of magic points, and a really good weapon. Bottomline, you don't have to be Mitsubishi's uber rich grandson to make a high level Wiz. Just use the inspiration that lies between your ears and keep your edges sharp.

God, I love Wizards. Crazy, flaky, emotional, nutty, wise, intelligent, lovable Wizards!

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I've tried "showing you".

Can someone show me where he did anything to describe how my quote was out of context and how the context gave a different meaning from what I said it did? I'll reread this thread, but if it ain't there I'll be very mad . . . .

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

you are wrong, you are illogical, blah blah blah

Again, no basis, just words. Seems to be your specialty, but I'm not impressed.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

go LA for the survivability was the first post I saw of yours.. lol

Our LA vs AA thread stands on its own. LOL if you wish, because I LOL that you managed to nerf magic attack even more in your vit build than was in my LA build (before including my increased crit rate), they had virtually the same survivability, and yours was based on fantasy gear that you claimed was readily available in the AH on LC but I and another player on LC confirmed you were flat out wrong.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I don't recall feeling foolish in any of my arguments with you, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Hm, you should. You sure did look foolish. A couple of times.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There are always unique ideas in a game like this.

Again, sometimes. But the vast majority (99%) of the posts at THIS point in time (not 1-2 years ago) - nothing is unique.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Just for shucks I found a post I really liked by Amour about psychics.

And nothing against Amour, but there is nothing "unique" in that post. Well explained? Sure. And I agree to a certain extent that is unique on these forums, lol. But in terms of unique ideas? WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! From the very DAY psychics came out, people called them OP, better than wizards, "THE new magic class", etc, etc, etc. Probably before the expansion was released, in fact, but certainly prior to November 4, 2010. Do you need me to post the dozens of links I can no doubt find saying the same thing? Didn't think so.

And note in that post that he basically says that psychics > wiz for anything but TW, which you have flamed me on more than one occasion for making similar statements. You really do have MPD, don't you?

Once again, you either don't give support for your statement, or the support you give basically proves my point better than your own, lol. Feeling foolish, indeed.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

It really got me thinking about them, which is really all a post is supposed to do.

Thanks for telling us all what posts SHOULD do. We will all make sure to ask you for permission before posting in the future, I'm sure.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

but you really don't know what is unique because you haven't seen all there is out there. It'll come with time I'm sure, but you act like you are an authority when it comes to wizards, and I just don't see you that way.

I don't "act like an authority". You do.

I have an opinion, I express it, and I don't let go of it just because some LC wiz says so. Prove my opinions wrong or b:shutup. So far, your track record in that regard isn't that good, ijs . . . .

Galox - Heavens Tear

Hehe, imo Adroit has the right to BE an authority :P Adroit does speak the truth a lot of the time but wait...

What are you two even arguing about, anyway?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hehe, imo Adroit has the right to BE an authority :P Adroit does speak the truth a lot of the time but wait...

What are you two even arguing about, anyway?

Well, in usual fashion, Adroit makes the argument about me, so I'm not surprised you are confused. And he does it intentionally. He is better known, more experienced, certainly more well liked, so if the discussion is him vs me, of course he wins. It's when it gets to facts that he gets himself into trouble . . . .

And I didn't say HE didn't have a right to an opinion. Hell, I've learned quite a few things from him (ok, maybe just 2 now that I think about it, but still worthwhile . . . .)

The one opinion he has that I don't agree with is that noone else is entitled to have an opinion different than him, and any difference of opinion, rather than be resolved by objective, factual discussion, turns into an "I'm Adroit, you don't know what you are talking about" diversion. Which wouldn't be so bad, except that he has so many jock-sniffers that proof and consequently true learning get lost in the process.

My purpose here is not to mimic. It is not to get better by copying someone better. It is to UNDERSTAND the class, why things work better one way than another. Admittedly, players that just want to "do what Adroit does" should not read my posts.

If they change this forum to "opinions by Adroit" I'll b:shutup. But as long as its the WIZARD DISCUSSION FORUM, I will continue. To discuss.

Galox - Heavens Tear

tehee, I've just noticed how..slow I've levelled
From Dec/09 I've managed..lv 75...xD

Anyways, In relation to this thread:

@ Any class can beat any class really. I think gear IS a major factor, but that introduces a new argument..

Would you rather have, in your squad:
@ A very experienced Wiz with a +5 TT wep, who knows what to do in ANY situation, knows all their skills inside out or..
@ A wiz who has a +8 Nirvana wep, who has no idea what his skills do, how or when to use the correct ones, and is generally inexperienced in his/her class.

The same argument could be made about Venos. I know, Hercs are NEEDED for some instances, but I've been in way too many squads where Herc Veno's think there totally invincible. Not saying ALL are like it, it's just I've noted veno's in my level range who use a WALKER generally cause less aggravation than those who use a HERC.

I really can't make my mind up: Skill or Gear?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tehee, I've just noticed how..slow I've levelled
From Dec/09 I've managed..lv 75...xD

Anyways, In relation to this thread:

@ Any class can beat any class really. I think gear IS a major factor, but that introduces a new argument..

Would you rather have, in your squad:
@ A very experienced Wiz with a +5 TT wep, who knows what to do in ANY situation, knows all their skills inside out or..
@ A wiz who has a +8 Nirvana wep, who has no idea what his skills do, how or when to use the correct ones, and is generally inexperienced in his/her class.

The same argument could be made about Venos. I know, Hercs are NEEDED for some instances, but I've been in way too many squads where Herc Veno's think there totally invincible. Not saying ALL are like it, it's just I've noted veno's in my level range who use a WALKER generally cause less aggravation than those who use a HERC.

I really can't make my mind up: Skill or Gear?

Don't worry about leveling. If you are doing it without oracles or hypers like I did on my wizard on sanctuary (and only 1 bh per day back then), it takes that long unless maybe you live in cube and delta.

For PvE, its much more important to know what you are doing, but then again in PvE there is little to know. Get a macro for the boss, watch for places you can heal, maybe try to interrupt a boss when you can, control you aggro/aoe, use opposing element skills where it makes sense, etc.

For TW its a harder choice, and I am much closer to saying go for the nirvana gear wiz. My $0 cash wizard on sanctuary is dead meat to most people in TW. I have to really work to live AND kill. Its easy to kill and then promptly die. And its easy to hit someone 1 time and run and live.

For PK? Especially on PK servers I would imagine, it really has to be both. We had a new bm show up on our server the other day. Never saw him before. Killed him quicker than any BM I've fought in a looong time, so I check his gear/lvl etc. He was 100, highly refined tt99 gear, event ornaments, gems sharded, etc, etc, etc. My first thought: "how can there be a bm on this server with this gear that I've never heard of?" But either way, it shows in large part that gear alone isn't enough. Its necessary, but not usually sufficient. Well, except for archers vs robes. Range + godly bow = robe dead in 5 secondsb:surrender

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Well, in usual fashion, Adroit makes the argument about me, so I'm not surprised you are confused. And he does it intentionally. He is better known, more experienced, certainly more well liked, so if the discussion is him vs me, of course he wins. It's when it gets to facts that he gets himself into trouble . . . .

And I didn't say HE didn't have a right to an opinion. Hell, I've learned quite a few things from him (ok, maybe just 2 now that I think about it, but still worthwhile . . . .)

The one opinion he has that I don't agree with is that noone else is entitled to have an opinion different than him, and any difference of opinion, rather than be resolved by objective, factual discussion, turns into an "I'm Adroit, you don't know what you are talking about" diversion. Which wouldn't be so bad, except that he has so many jock-sniffers that proof and consequently true learning get lost in the process.

My purpose here is not to mimic. It is not to get better by copying someone better. It is to UNDERSTAND the class, why things work better one way than another. Admittedly, players that just want to "do what Adroit does" should not read my posts.

If they change this forum to "opinions by Adroit" I'll b:shutup. But as long as its the WIZARD DISCUSSION FORUM, I will continue. To discuss.

Well, the only thing that bothers me about you is when you either misunderstand what has been said (then rush to cover it up), or intentionally misquote somebody. Other than that, I tend to read what you write. We can talk about understanding the class if something of substance comes out of it. You write all the time, but of what? Usually a spat with another poster, or giving conclusions that Wizards are crappie as a class. We don't want to hear that. We want to hear about HOW. For instance, HOW can you pick off a Sin's ambush? HOW can you increase your DPS? HOW can you increase -channelling without diminishing your DPH? HOW can you highly refine a good gear without spending hundreds of dollars? HOW can you defeat a well played BM on the ground?

IF Adroit is one of the few end game Wizards that tries her best to answer those kind of questions, then it's not "jock sniffing" if we listen to Adroit, (not to mention her credentials in the PVP world at least, are excellent).

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Well, the only thing that bothers me about you is when you either misunderstand what has been said (then rush to cover it up), or intentionally misquote somebody.

Again, rather than accept my invitation to PROVE where I've done these things, you simply restate them. Its annoying.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

You write all the time, but of what? Usually a spat with another poster

If its a "spat", I am not sure how its my fault. If someone make unsupported accusations against me, I will respond, sir. Call it a spat if you will. But it takes 2 to tango, and you have spent as much time dancing with me as I with you so your criticism of me for it is, well, at best unpersuasive.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

or giving conclusions that Wizards are crappie as a class. We don't want to hear that.

Then DONT ASK IT. Look at the title of this thread before you tell me that I shouldn't be posting my opinion about wizards as a class vs other classes. Honestly! I fell like I am dealing with people in a nut house sometimes.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

We want to hear about HOW. For instance, HOW can you pick off a Sin's ambush? HOW can you increase your DPS? HOW can you increase -channelling without diminishing your DPH? HOW can you highly refine a good gear without spending hundreds of dollars? HOW can you defeat a well played BM on the ground?

First of all, all of these questions are answered elsewhere on these forums. But since you've asked them here:

HOW can you pick off a Sin's ambush?

For the most part you can't. Detection pots have a short duration and long cool down time. Best bet? Don't have anyone "targeted" so that when the sin hits you he is your target. Use expel (or domain, but the long duration of expel works better imo) immediately. Then pk as normal until the sin disappears. Rinse and repeat.


HOW can you increase your DPS?

You can't really. -channeling helps, on a boss sutra helps, using high dps skills (gush, pyro, gush, pyro, yawn). But when people say our DPS sucks, they mean it sucks EVEN doing all that. So there is no way to make our DPS not suck.

HOW can you increase -channelling without diminishing your DPH?

You can't. In alot of instances its a trade off, channel for crit. And most opt for no channel because we NEED to use pdef ornaments. So most just look for 18-30 channel and 10-15% crit.

Oh, and going demon will increase DPS slightly as well, but I'm a chi addict so I'm sage.

HOW can you highly refine a good gear without spending hundreds of dollars?

You can't. Use tienkang and tisha stones. There is no guaranty but you can usually get to at least +4/+5 fairly cheap that way. "Highly" refined costs $$$$$$$$$$$$, either rl cash of hours and hours of farming.

HOW can you defeat a well played BM on the ground?

Shout: "BEHIND YOU!!! HARPY WRAITH!!!!" and when he looks, pound him.

The answer is: "You can't". You can't because you can't kite a bm on the ground. They run as fast as you (faster, in fact) and can stun you every which way but loose. A wiz that can't kite is a dead wizard. Well played BM? get in the air.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

IF Adroit is one of the few end game Wizards that tries her best to answer those kind of questions, then it's not "jock sniffing" if we listen to Adroit, (not to mention her credentials in the PVP world at least, are excellent).

IF indeed. But the premise is false. And to say "not to mention her credentials blah blah blah" is jock sniffing, sorry. It has nothing to do with the objective merit of what he is saying. It is only adopting it as gospel based on those "credentials".

And to say "not to mention" is laughable. Its the only thing people DO mention. Again, if that's all your looking for, don't read my posts. They won't appeal to you.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Again, rather than accept my invitation to PROVE where I've done these things, you simply restate them. Its annoying.



If its a "spat", I am not sure how its my fault. If someone make unsupported accusations against me, I will respond, sir. Call it a spat if you will. But it takes 2 to tango, and you have spent as much time dancing with me as I with you so your criticism of me for it is, well, at best unpersuasive.



Then DONT ASK IT. Look at the title of this thread before you tell me that I shouldn't be posting my opinion about wizards as a class vs other classes. Honestly! I fell like I am dealing with people in a nut house sometimes.



First of all, all of these questions are answered elsewhere on these forums. But since you've asked them here:

HOW can you pick off a Sin's ambush?

For the most part you can't. Detection pots have a short duration and long cool down time. Best bet? Don't have anyone "targeted" so that when the sin hits you he is your target. Use expel (or domain, but the long duration of expel works better imo) immediately. Then pk as normal until the sin disappears. Rinse and repeat.


HOW can you increase your DPS?

You can't really. -channeling helps, on a boss sutra helps, using high dps skills (gush, pyro, gush, pyro, yawn). But when people say our DPS sucks, they mean it sucks EVEN doing all that. So there is no way to make our DPS not suck.

HOW can you increase -channelling without diminishing your DPH?

You can't. In alot of instances its a trade off, channel for crit. And most opt for no channel because we NEED to use pdef ornaments. So most just look for 18-30 channel and 10-15% crit.

Oh, and going demon will increase DPS slightly as well, but I'm a chi addict so I'm sage.

HOW can you highly refine a good gear without spending hundreds of dollars?

You can't. Use tienkang and tisha stones. There is no guaranty but you can usually get to at least +4/+5 fairly cheap that way. "Highly" refined costs $$$$$$$$$$$$, either rl cash of hours and hours of farming.

HOW can you defeat a well played BM on the ground?

Shout: "BEHIND YOU!!! HARPY WRAITH!!!!" and when he looks, pound him.

The answer is: "You can't". You can't because you can't kite a bm on the ground. They run as fast as you (faster, in fact) and can stun you every which way but loose. A wiz that can't kite is a dead wizard. Well played BM? get in the air.



IF indeed. But the premise is false. And to say "not to mention her credentials blah blah blah" is jock sniffing, sorry. It has nothing to do with the objective merit of what he is saying. It is only adopting it as gospel based on those "credentials".

And to say "not to mention" is laughable. Its the only thing people DO mention. Again, if that's all your looking for, don't read my posts. They won't appeal to you.

Thank you.

Oh, but I refined my R.12 wep to +6 for less than 20 US using only mirages to +3, Orb to +4, then chienking stones and mirages up to +6. But, I started with a load of mirages that I had stored (about 100) and that cost is not figured into it. Ima little tentative about pushing any further refining on it without orbs or chienkings and that looks pretty expensive. And, difficult to finds +7, +8 Orbs on sale for reasonable price.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

+6 is very lucky without orbs, but I've heard of it being done. But I've heard of someone getting +7 with 1 mirage and 1 of those "nirvana" stones (chikung or something like that), but the odds of that are crazy remote.

A good rule of thumb is +4/+5 without orbs if you want to try, but after +5, best to use orbs.

Oh, and ALWAYS get 1* orbs on sale. Never buy, for example, the 5* orb from the boutique for 18 gold or whatever. Its always cheaper to use 1* orbs up until +8. Then +9/+10 use the 10* orb on sale if your going to do it.

OH, and the CHEAPEST WAY? Buy a second hand weapon. I got a +6 aquadash on sanctuary for less than the price of just a +6 orb . . . .

Now if I can just figure a way out to get my veno friend who "quit" to give me his +10 aquadash b:victory

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

+6 is very lucky without orbs, but I've heard of it being done. But I've heard of someone getting +7 with 1 mirage and 1 of those "nirvana" stones (chikung or something like that), but the odds of that are crazy remote.

A good rule of thumb is +4/+5 without orbs if you want to try, but after +5, best to use orbs.

Oh, and ALWAYS get 1* orbs on sale. Never buy, for example, the 5* orb from the boutique for 18 gold or whatever. Its always cheaper to use 1* orbs up until +8. Then +9/+10 use the 10* orb on sale if your going to do it.

OH, and the CHEAPEST WAY? Buy a second hand weapon. I got a +6 aquadash on sanctuary for less than the price of just a +6 orb . . . .

Well, going cheap on gear in the 90s is probably smart. But, if you have an end game wep, a little investment may be the way to go. Mine at +6 is already hitting over 1400 top side. I'd kinda like to keep it going cause, at least in the 90s, that's fairly monstrous (if I do say so myself).

But, I don't understand what you say about using 1* orbs up intil +8. You must be talking about combining loads of them to manufacture *7 *8 orbs. I must assume that is what you're talking about. And, yes I used the chienking stones you were referring to to get +5 and +6. They're approx one gold per depending. All they do is prevent refine loss if the mirages fail.

And, one last thing, not to further antagonize you, but I don't understand why you're so defensive about Adroit. It isn't jock sniffing to note that when she say's Calvin uses lawbreaker to break a Wizard's silencer, and this is what "I" do to counter this...that's decent info..and the vid's prove it. I'm not saying you don't have PVP credential, I'm just saying she quite obviously does.

Peace out and thanks for the advice recently given.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Can someone show me where he did anything to describe how my quote was out of context and how the context gave a different meaning from what I said it did? I'll reread this thread, but if it ain't there I'll be very mad . . . .



Again, no basis, just words. Seems to be your specialty, but I'm not impressed.



Our LA vs AA thread stands on its own. LOL if you wish, because I LOL that you managed to nerf magic attack even more in your vit build than was in my LA build (before including my increased crit rate), they had virtually the same survivability, and yours was based on fantasy gear that you claimed was readily available in the AH on LC but I and another player on LC confirmed you were flat out wrong.



Hm, you should. You sure did look foolish. A couple of times.



Again, sometimes. But the vast majority (99%) of the posts at THIS point in time (not 1-2 years ago) - nothing is unique.




And nothing against Amour, but there is nothing "unique" in that post. Well explained? Sure. And I agree to a certain extent that is unique on these forums, lol. But in terms of unique ideas? WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! From the very DAY psychics came out, people called them OP, better than wizards, "THE new magic class", etc, etc, etc. Probably before the expansion was released, in fact, but certainly prior to November 4, 2010. Do you need me to post the dozens of links I can no doubt find saying the same thing? Didn't think so.

And note in that post that he basically says that psychics > wiz for anything but TW, which you have flamed me on more than one occasion for making similar statements. You really do have MPD, don't you?

Once again, you either don't give support for your statement, or the support you give basically proves my point better than your own, lol. Feeling foolish, indeed.



Thanks for telling us all what posts SHOULD do. We will all make sure to ask you for permission before posting in the future, I'm sure.



I don't "act like an authority". You do.

I have an opinion, I express it, and I don't let go of it just because some LC wiz says so. Prove my opinions wrong or b:shutup. So far, your track record in that regard isn't that good, ijs . . . .

*rolls eyes*
The first part of your post is basically you saying that you want proof that you misquote.. which is somewhat funny being that your very next quote is a misquote.

Maybe your memory is fading a bit, but the build I posted in the LA vs arcane vit thread would not be what I would use. I used it as an example to show you that arcane vit higher potential survivability than LA. Your LA **** build had two pdef ornaments, with horrible mdef. Despite the fact that you completely neglected mdef, I was still able to have more hp/pdef AND significantly higher mdef on my arcane vit build than your equivalent LA build. The gear I used is readily available.. just the same as all of my OHT gear (two wrists, helm, boots) have 3 useful stats, finding gear with just 2 useful stats is not difficult. Especially if you are going to +4 and 4socket all of your 80 gear.. lol.

Unique posts are determined by the reader, and Amour's post was what finally convinced me that psychics are overpowered. There have always been people guessing what end game psychics were going to be like without any real basis. I can remember several posts I just dismissed because they were stressing the wrong issues (just having slightly higher dps wasn't a big issue to me for example). I don't know why I am even arguing this, the point is.. I've yet to read anything from you that hasn't been discussed over and over long before you showed up. There is still new material and ideas being added (everyone would have left a long time ago if nothing new came up), so you have an obvious flaw in logic right there.

I don't have any problem with you expressing your opinions, but I'll sure be here to dispute your "facts" and poke at your opinions. By definition, you cannot "PROVE" or "DISPROVE" an opinion, but your twisted "facts" are just too easy to pass up.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Well, going cheap on gear in the 90s is probably smart. But, if you have an end game wep, a little investment may be the way to go.

At 85 I got a sensoid, put 2 gems in it and refined to +6 and used that all the way to 99. I got A TON of mileage out of that. Big fan of the gold frost weapons (refine at grade 12, same as tt99) for that reason. No regrets.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

But, I don't understand what you say about using 1* orbs up intil +8. You must be talking about combining loads of them to manufacture *7 *8 orbs.

Yup.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not saying you don't have PVP credential, I'm just saying she quite obviously does.

I'm not saying that either. In fact, I've said the opposite. Outside of being top wiz (which doesn't say much, considering there are so few of us) on my very, very young server, I have no pvp credentials.

What I am saying is don't listen to people because of alleged pvp credentials. Listen to what they say. Try it yourself. Watch them do it on a video and see if it worked the way they said, or because the other guy screwed up, or was uncharmed, or had low hp, etc. etc. etc.

Going off of "credentials" will work 80% of the time, you will get fooled 20% of the time. But 100% of the time you will learn nothing but how to be a parrot, a mimic, a shadow, none of which allows for an individual to achieve their own full potential.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

*rolls eyes*
The first part of your post is basically you saying that you want proof that you misquote.. which is somewhat funny being that your very next quote is a misquote.

No it didn't. Your another one. I'm rubber and your glue . . . .

yawn

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

*rolls eyes*
Maybe your memory is fading a bit, rehash the old post, blah blah blah.

Covered all this before in that post, no need to put it here again.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Unique posts are determined by the reader, and Amour's post was what finally convinced me that psychics are overpowered.

Well, I'm glad you finally caught up with the rest of us. People have pointed not just to their dps, if that were the case people would take venos over wizards for crying out loud.

For forever it has always been about the voodoos, the buffs/debuffs, their party skills, their "cheaper" aoe skills, their better "stun" skills. They had all of these incredibly useful and unique skills that wizards just didn't have. And as for "at end game", again, where have you been? There have been end game psychics for a long time now.

Now, if the fact that it took his post to convince you because you didn't give credit to anyone else when they said it because of who they were (or who they weren't), well, that's your problem and the one that I am trying to warn Pearl about. For everything you say about me, I could have told you everything in that post 10 months ago b:surrender

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There is still new material and ideas being added (everyone would have left a long time ago if nothing new came up), so you have an obvious flaw in logic right there.

Again, SHOW ME. So far, your 10 months (at least) behind the curve and 0-1 in terms of backing up your "there's tons of unique stuff here" claim.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

+6 is very lucky without orbs, but I've heard of it being done. But I've heard of someone getting +7 with 1 mirage and 1 of those "nirvana" stones (chikung or something like that), but the odds of that are crazy remote.

A good rule of thumb is +4/+5 without orbs if you want to try, but after +5, best to use orbs.

Oh, and ALWAYS get 1* orbs on sale. Never buy, for example, the 5* orb from the boutique for 18 gold or whatever. Its always cheaper to use 1* orbs up until +8. Then +9/+10 use the 10* orb on sale if your going to do it.

OH, and the CHEAPEST WAY? Buy a second hand weapon. I got a +6 aquadash on sanctuary for less than the price of just a +6 orb . . . .

Now if I can just figure a way out to get my veno friend who "quit" to give me his +10 aquadash b:victory

This is just too easy. I +8'd my weapon with tishas because I found a chart showing that orbs became worth it at +9 (using a 10star orb thats on sale). I had previously +7'd my weapon with tishas.. cost me about 30 mirages and 3 gold (yes I got extremely lucky).. and then when I wanted to +10 my weapon I tried to tisha it to 8 and then use my two orbs. I started with like 8 fails in a row, went down to +0.. wasted about 700 mirages not able to get it to +3.. and then randomly it went from +0 to +8 with no fails in between. To go from +7 to +8 it cost me ~700 mirages and 10 gold. Moral of the story, you can go farther than +5 before using orbs.

I'll try to find that chart again when I get home if anyone is interested.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Moral of the story, you can go farther than +5 before using orbs.

Gosh, you make is sound as though I said "you can't go farther than +5 without using orbs". Pearl, you starting to get why I seem to get involved in "spats" or whatever you called them?

Yes, you can always get lucky. Of course. Which is why I said its a rule of thumb. Just because you can have a 1% chance (or less) of getting to +7 on 30 orbs or whatever doesn't mean everyone should do it. But I invite them to try.b:chuckle My experience has been getting 3 or 4 consecutive successful attempts with anything less than 100 trys is very, very rare. But dowhatchalike and best of luck to you.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I'll try to find that chart again when I get home if anyone is interested.

The chart your looking for is something like "refining guide" or "refining for cheap". I can probably find it.

Edit: Yup, "refining for cheap" http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=541751

Sure, you CAN try that, but the fact is it doesn't usually work, and if you get to +6, the prospect of going back down to +1 should convince you not to try. Or after it happens 3 or 4 or 20 times, it will.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Gosh, you make is sound as though I said "you can't go farther than +5 without using orbs". Pearl, you starting to get why I seem to get involved in "spats" or whatever you called them?

Yes, you can always get lucky. Of course. Which is why I said its a rule of thumb. Just because you can have a 2% chance (or less) of getting to +7 on 30 orbs or whatever doesn't mean everyone should do it. But I invite them to try.b:chuckle My experience has been getting 3 or 4 consecutive successful attempts with anything less than 100 trys is very, very rare. But dowhatchalike and best of luck to you.




The chart your looking for is something like "refining guide" or "refining for cheap". I can probably find it.

Edit: Yup, "refining for cheap" http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=541751

Sure, you CAN try that, but the fact is it doesn't usually work, and if you get to +6, the prospect of going back down to +1 should convince you not to try. Or after it happens 3 or 4 or 20 times, it will.

Well, if I can get this wep up to +10, I'll be cracking by anybody's standards (don't mention warsoul because we don't even talk about warsoul on a real wizard's forum).

Off topic here, but on topic on the other thread, about Vit bld v LA bld. Isn't that argument somewhat stale after 90? I think it is. Im totally magic with virtually no vit pts except what adds I get from gear, and only have a tiny bit of dex pts to add to the gear dex adds just to round up my crit rate...which is only 8%. I don't plan to change either. Sage BIDS will give me all the crit I want, unless I can come across some huge crit rings for cheap or it just comes as a matter of fact as a gear add-on. Fact is, I hit hard without having to rely on crit. Crit is just frosting on the cake. I much enjoy the certain power given by Frenzy and combine that with sutra powder if total destruction fails and they come in during the de-buff.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Hey look! I can misquote too!
I, BLOODMYSTIC, am a moron.

lol this is rich.
I'm glad you had a crystal ball 10 months ago to find out what the demon/sage skills were going to be like for tideborn.. and how your paper scenarios really showed how they would work in game.

I must have really hit a nerve because your arguments are getting worse and worse as time goes on. It feels like you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything to dispute with me with, just for that off chance that you'd actually be right about something. Was fun playing, I'm getting back to my homework now b:victory

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Isn't that argument somewhat stale after 90?

Yes. I now of no wizard 90+ that is LA

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

unless I can come across some huge crit rings for cheap .

get the perfect attendance rings from the school teacher of you don't get lunar rings.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lol this is rich.

THAT's WHAT YOU CALL MISQUOTING? roflmao

Unlike you, I was at least somewhat paraphrasing what you were saying, admittedly in a hyper simplistic manner. I don't think anyone thought you LITERALLY wrote what was in the quote in my posts. I do that so people have an idea of what I am responding to without filling up the entire post with a repeat of a long, drawn out quote that people in all likelihood have already read. I take this as an admission by you that I was not in fact misquoting you in an effort to mislead anyone or change one bit what you actually said. If someone comes to you believing you actually said "blah blah blah" in your original post based on my quote, be sure to send them my way and I promise I will set them straight, with my apologies. I won't be holding my breath, however.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lol this is rich.
I'm glad you had a crystal ball 10 months ago to find out what the demon/sage skills were going to be like for tideborn.. and how your paper scenarios really showed how they would work in game.
. . . . just for that off chance that you'd actually be right about something . . . .

What I am right about was people were saying the same things about psychics months and months ago that you claimed were "original ideas" on 11/4/2010. Funny that some of us didn't need to wait for the demon sage skills to come out to come to that conclusion. Or did you see in your crystal ball that those skills would somehow nerf the class vis a vis wizards? If so, interesting fantasy, but noone else thought that was likely.

I hope one of the classes you have homework in is critical thinking or formal logic. Study up. Please.

Rule - Heavens Tear

LA wizzies 100+
Ararat and WildRiver - HT server.

I personally did LA from 60-100 and found it MOST FUN.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

THAT's WHAT YOU CALL MISQUOTING? roflmao

Unlike you, I was at least somewhat paraphrasing what you were saying, admittedly in a hyper simplistic manner. I don't think anyone thought you LITERALLY wrote what was in the quote in my posts. I do that so people have an idea of what I am responding to without filling up the entire post with a repeat of a long, drawn out quote that people in all likelihood have already read. I take this as an admission by you that I was not in fact misquoting you in an effort to mislead anyone or change one bit what you actually said. If someone comes to you believing you actually said "blah blah blah" in your original post based on my quote, be sure to send them my way and I promise I will set them straight, with my apologies. I won't be holding my breath, however.



What I am right about was people were saying the same things about psychics months and months ago that you claimed were "original ideas" on 11/4/2010. Funny that some of us didn't need to wait for the demon sage skills to come out to come to that conclusion. Or did you see in your crystal ball that those skills would somehow nerf the class vis a vis wizards? If so, interesting fantasy, but noone else thought that was likely.

I hope one of the classes you have homework in is critical thinking or formal logic. Study up. Please.

Yes I call that misquoting. There are many ways of misquoting, I just figured what I used there would be the easiest to demonstrate my point. There was no "admission by you that I was not in fact misquoting you" of any kind in my post, nor a mere suggestion of one. Nice try though.

Please use your crystal ball and tell me all about the new classes coming out. By your logic, you already know everything about them.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Yes I call that misquoting. There are many ways of misquoting, I just figured what I used there would be the easiest to demonstrate my point. There was no "admission by you that I was not in fact misquoting you" of any kind in my post, nor a mere suggestion of one. Nice try though.

Please use your crystal ball and tell me all about the new classes coming out. By your logic, you already know everything about them.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I bet 20 mirage stones that seekers will be running around like madmen attacking sins. I bet another 20 mirage stones that sins will start to become a whole lot more friendly to wizards. This just a theory, but it's a fun theory.

Mystics, on the other hand............a complete mystery.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LA wizzies 100+
Ararat and WildRiver - HT server.

I personally did LA from 60-100 and found it MOST FUN.

Thanks. They still play? Tell them to come post their builds. I don't recommend it, but I imagine they po archers that don't know their build in advance b:chuckle

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Yes I call that misquoting.

No rational person would. But you and rationality don't often collide in the same sentence, I imagine.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There are many ways of misquoting, the fact that what I chose to point out proved nothing simply means ive been proven wrong again and don't know how else to respond, that all . . . . .

I agree!!



*see how much closer to "misquoting" THAT^ is?

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Please use your crystal ball and tell me all about the new classes coming out. By your logic, you already know everything about them.

As soon as we have all the detail on the skills, I will do just that.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I don't have a crystal ball, but I bet 20 mirage stones that seekers will be running around like madmen attacking sins. I bet another 20 mirage stones that sins will start to become a whole lot more friendly to wizards.

I'll take the first bet, but not the second! But I am willing to bet the wizzie population AND the veno population see a significant hit from the new mystic class.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I'll take the first bet, but not the second! But I am willing to bet the wizzie population AND the veno population see a significant hit from the new mystic class.

Whatever happens, it's gonna be fun. But, you do know that the seekers will be able to see sins in stealth. You do know that don't you? lol

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Whatever happens, it's gonna be fun. But, you do know that the seekers will be able to see sins in stealth. You do know that don't you? lol

Er, yea, I meant the opposite of what I said. Turn it around, put it in a blender, have a few drinks and you'll get my meaning.


Somehow.


Maybe.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Er, yea, I meant the opposite of what I said. Turn it around, put it in a blender, have a few drinks and you'll get my meaning.


Somehow.


Maybe.

KK lol The second bet is where the odds are. I know for a fact there are many players just waiting around for the Seekers to come out...and the Sins are gonna be running for their lives.

My second point just reveals the thought that Sins may come to a quick conclusion that they will now need friends, like the rest of us. Not that all Sins are bad or anything. I got alot of cool Sin friends. But, generally speaking...well just sayin..

But, I haven't found any substantial info on mystics. Does anybody know anything about what they may be about?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

But, I haven't found any substantial info on mystics. Does anybody know anything about what they may be about?

Not alot yet, but throw a psychic and a veno into a blender . . . .

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Thanks. They still play? Tell them to come post their builds. I don't recommend it, but I imagine they po archers that don't know their build in advance b:chuckle





No rational person would. But you and rationality don't often collide in the same sentence, I imagine.



I agree!!



*see how much closer to "misquoting" THAT^ is?



As soon as we have all the detail on the skills, I will do just that.



I'll take the first bet, but not the second! But I am willing to bet the wizzie population AND the veno population see a significant hit from the new mystic class.

So what you are saying is that you don't have a crystal ball and you're going to need to wait for more info. Hmmm that sounds familiar. The chances of you actually being right about anything before you've played them or played against them is very slim.

Oh, and that is no difference from what you were doing before. Misquoting is misquoting. If you really need to misquote people to sticky up your monitor, go ahead.. but you can stop denying the obvious whenever you're ready.

prof

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Thanks. They still play? Tell them to come post their builds. I don't recommend it, but I imagine they po archers that don't know their build in advance b:chuckle

I don't see the beneficial part of light armour. seems more viable for clerics than a mage..

let's compare mine to an equal-refine light mage:

me:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e7763229cf19cd0

them:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=90d07d568bbad0bd


gain 2% physical defense reduction
lose 8% magic defense reduction
gain 6% crit
lose 18% channeling
gain 2k hp
lose 4k+ matk on both spikes
gain .05% interval b:chuckle

b:sweat I bet their hiero gets bypassed by a thunder-crit from archers.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Misquoting is misquoting. The tideborn were a complete mystery until sage/demon skills came out

here, lemme take care of the next 20 posts.

nuh uh

yuh huh

nuh uh

yuh huh

nuh uh

There, im done repeating myself even if your not.

prof wrote: »

b:sweat I bet their hiero gets bypassed by a thunder-crit from archers.

You still here? ugh

Anywho, the point is that they will hit you with physical attacks, hence me saying "they don't know your build in advance"