haha yes!

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I disagree with the blaming. This is a game. If the game allows you to do something which isn't clearly a bug and the GMs haven't said it's bannable, then there's nothing wrong with doing it.

That said, what you're talking about is a problem with this game. In general, devs should never change games to become harder over time. If you do that, you end up in a situation where the first achievers had an easier time getting to where they are than everyone else, in many cases permanently cementing in their advantage over other players. If the devs feel they goofed and introduced something which is that unbalancing, then the item/change needs to be completely pulled from the game or nerfed across the board and (where applicable) money refunded.

The better solution is to slowly and constantly raise the bar. e.g. Year 1, having +50 vit from equipment at level 100 is the norm. Year 2, having +100 vit from equipment is the norm, and new instances and bosses are introduced with a higher difficulty level matching the increased hp. Year 3, +150 vit is the norm, with new matching instances and bosses. etc. That way nobody feels like they were disadvantaged by starting to play the game later. And imbalanced items slowly lose their unbalancing advantage over the game's history.

THIS. I agree completely.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Grats for exploiting an obvious glitch hope you're proud of it. Instances weren't meant to be saved end of story, that's why they fixed, although it took ages like most of their fixes take. But I guess hypocrites will always need to use glitches to farm faster and then tell others to "stop being lazy".

Please find me a GM post or support base answer that says holding an instance was against the rules or was even a punishable offense. It wasn't a glitch. No special trick was needed to perform the bosses respawning. This was part of the mechanics and design of the game.

You might as well say that a sin who uses stealth, a BM that uses stun or a cleric who uses sleep every time cooldown is over, effectively spamming a skill you find annoying is glitching as well.

(you = plural, including Michael, Rose and all other hypocrites like them who took advantage and loved 2x drops but now hate them to come back)

I've been against them ever since the 3 weeks of 2x drops, I believe that was the 2nd or 3rd time it happened.

Of course I will take advantage of 2x drops any time it is implemented. I would be stupid not to. Next time 2x drops comes around, I will farm like crazy as well. I'm still against it happening for 3 weeks at a time, or back to back only a week or two in between. That's just stupid and it wrecks the economy.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, my math was right, I was just drunk and said days when the calculation was in weeks, turdboy. Otherwise, 7 days would have been over 100m per day. b:chuckle

And making half that per day during double drops was possible. At 40m per day, that's less than 3 weeks to farm rank 8.

She said with ONE other person. Not a farming squad. Obviously your reading skills are beneath you. I farmed nirvanas and TT's, duo, with my girlfriend (3-3's before the change as they were more plausible for a duo squad). I stated this numerous times. If mister tweezer e-peen was actually paying attention he would have seen posts saying I was a braggart when in fact they, I'm sure, meant to be reading your posts instead. The difference was, I didn't need to exaggerate.

Yes, a farming squad. My farming squads were usually 3 people.... but vaired from 2-4 people. Many people I know have at least two computers. I can run a BM on my gaming system and an EP on work laptop. I have friends who have anywhere from 3-10 machines running at a time, a number of them don't even play mmos. Having more than one computer is pretty common if you're not an adolescent playing on your birthday or xmas present.

Anyhow, I have gone in 3-3, 3-2, nirvana, lunar, and so on with a full 5 APS squad, countless times, and when it was declared she had rank 8 farmed fist/claws weren't nearly as popular, with her "partner". Even the best players admit when they got Rank 8 that early they put some real cash into it. It's nothing to be ashamed of, exaggerating is. Or, in your case, being a dunce and having both terrible math skills and comprehension skills, and whatever personality disorder causes you to rage so bad. b:bye

X has a +10 HS 6 months before packs even came out. He farmed it. He farmed LOTS. He was duoing 3-3 for cash more than a year ago. A lot of people who played this game before packs were USED to playing the game a lot. Fiery Devil/Kitamura is probably the biggest farmer. He has leveled at least 5 characters from 1-100+ and they all have insane gear without cash shopping. He probably has enough money saved up in coins and mats to get Rank8 3 or 4 times over with just what he's saved up. What does he do? Farm.

Who cares if someone farms or decides to play for half the day and night. Who cares. I've cash shopped several thousand. Did I cash shop for G13 Nirvana which would have cost $500 if I had? No. Did I cash shop roughly that much for interval tome? No. Did I cash shop 99 wrists, chest or Nirvana pants? No. Did I cash shop my +10 on my GX? Yes. Did I cash shop the +1-+11 on my claws? No. Did I cash shop any of my 9x gear? Did I cash shop any other refines or shards? No. What business is it of yours? None.

Why is it so important for you to call someone out because you may or may not believe they cash shopped or farmed something? You're just an idiot. People used to have long term goals in this game, just because you weren't able to complete yours in any timely matter, if you even had any shouldn't be fuel to criticize others when you say things like that shouldn't even matter to you, obviously it strikes a nerve somewhere or you wouldn't even be involved in this discussion.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That said, what you're talking about is a problem with this game. In general, devs should never change games to become harder over time. If you do that, you end up in a situation where the first achievers had an easier time getting to where they are than everyone else, in many cases permanently cementing in their advantage over other players. If the devs feel they goofed and introduced something which is that unbalancing, then the item/change needs to be completely pulled from the game or nerfed across the board and (where applicable) money refunded.

I'm fine with the new difficulty of Nirvana or 3-3. I don't really farm anymore, don't have the need or the desire really, but this is what I disagree about them. It's also why I was playing Devil's Advocate in the 'Class Action Lawsuit' thread.

Changes should always be done to maintain consistency or continuity of gameplay. Instead of reworking or making the instances legitimately more difficult, they completely and thoughtlessly threw the book at it and increased the difficulty exponentially.

If you look at the recent 3-3 speed run thread, you'll see it doesn't really affect a super-farming party that can easily be put together these days. All it did was make it so that people couldn't solo or duo it and in return, knocked out 95%+ of the casual gamers from even being able to touch it.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Just another post from someone who is so pissed off at the game because they have yet to accomplish anything? The negative Nancy that you generate on just about every post you make, is one reason people take nothing you say seriously. And people CAN DO THESE THINGS...but it DOES take effort...A concept lost on more then a few it seems.

Oh and there have been some Wizzies who have FARMED their Rank 8 using HH as well. And I know of 4 people on LC FARMING HH for their Rank 8's and most are about 50% of the way there if not even closer. *shrugs* b:chuckle

Reds can you comprehend logic? Why did you totally skipped my main point?

WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR FREAKING FARMED TOKENS CAME FROM?

Not from YOU. A "couple" wizards getting rank 8 -- I don't give a **** about "a couple". When you say "an average number of wizards", then you have more valid points. Until then, nobody cares about "a couple" say, because it's not realistic for average number of people.

You said it takes effort -- who defines this effort? What about farming rep before packs? Is it the same effort? No? Where do packs come from? From effort? Or from cash shopping them? What happens if there's not enough cash shoppers? Will effort get harder and harder? Will everyone (by that I mean EVERYONE, not "a couple") get rank8 GUARANTEED by farming the same? Or will token prices skyrocket due to demand making ONLY A COUPLE able to afford it?

Jesus Christ use some logic.



Hint: there's not enough resources in the game (tokens, in this case) to accomodate it for everyone. End of story. I don't care how you twist this in your way about effort. it's always only THE TOP people who get it. I.e the top 5 farmers. It's not a question of "farm effort" or "farm points", it's a question "are you amongst the top 5 farmers on the server?"

Frankly, as long as this is based on other players and their amount of effort, your advices are meaningless.

Mendolin - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Reds can you comprehend logic? Why did you totally skipped my main point?

WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR FREAKING FARMED TOKENS CAME FROM?

Not from YOU. A "couple" wizards getting rank 8 -- I don't give a **** about "a couple". When you say "an average number of wizards", then you have more valid points. Until then, nobody cares about "a couple" say, because it's not realistic for average number of people.

You said it takes effort -- who defines this effort? What about farming rep before packs? Is it the same effort? No? Where do packs come from? From effort? Or from cash shopping them? What happens if there's not enough cash shoppers? Will effort get harder and harder? Will everyone (by that I mean EVERYONE, not "a couple") get rank8 GUARANTEED by farming the same? Or will token prices skyrocket due to demand making ONLY A COUPLE able to afford it?

Jesus Christ use some logic.



Hint: there's not enough resources in the game (tokens, in this case) to accomodate it for everyone. End of story. I don't care how you twist this in your way about effort. it's always only THE TOP people who get it. I.e the top 5 farmers. It's not a question of "farm effort" or "farm points", it's a question "are you amongst the top 5 farmers on the server?"

Frankly, as long as this is based on other players and their amount of effort, your advices are meaningless.

wait wait... you are mad at rose for PWI putting packs in the boutique and then players buying these packs and getting tokens 97% of the time?? you are mad at rose for people spending their time/money on packs while rose spent her time and money farming TT, earning coin and then buying these tokens???

money spent is money spent- everyone has a choice....

b:shocked where the **** is your logic?!?

Borsuc - Raging Tide

???

I'm simply saying that she has no clue what farming actually means, and that she isn't farming here, just trading. Trading is based on what the other player offers and market conditions. With the case at hand:

She is saying everyone can farm, yet at least the same number of people have to cashshop and sell tokens. This is where I was pointing the error. I'm "mad" because she keeps repeating this nonsense over and over the forum.

I have no problem with cash shoppers. I actually have more problems with free players. Cash shoppers don't deny that cash shopping has to exist for free to play players to get their stuff (I do NOT mean running servers and paying staff, I simply mean in-game resources). I have a problem with f2p players who say that everyone can do X without cash-shopping when that thing REQUIRES a cashshopper to sell it to you in the first place. Who's gonna sell that to everybody then?

As a sidenote, you can farm rep in FBs and one-man armies and such -- I don't believe those are influenced about market conditions or the cashshopping people.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Basically, before packs you had to "farm" R8 by getting the rep itself through buying dogtags or doing rep quests/fbs/blahblah.

After packs an easier way to get rep was established. Tokens---->rep. Comes from the Cs. Depends on the amount of people buying and opening packs.

So before it wouldn't be possible to "farm" R8, people calculated it, it would've taken years, all that jazz. After packs, it becomes possible to do it without CSing. Except it still depends on the amount of people CSing.

Because if everyone farmed for their money and used it to get R8, the demand of tokens would go up, due to fixed number of tokens and more and more people wanting them for rank. Well, this could make more people buy packs, to stabilise the pack/token price, or just drive up the token price. Either way, it involves more CSing, or "harder and harder" work [more farming for same amt of tokens/rep].

So it works when a small number of people do it which is totally fine and great. And I believe it's possible without cash shop. not hard to believe at all. But it's not possible for everyone because once everyone TRIES things change. So we have a group who says, you can do it like us! But the precise action of many people doing it that method would ruin the system for all.

That is what I think [?] people are saying. I think. Now I'll duck out again before I get caught up in an argument completely irrelevant to me.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So we have a group who says, you can do it like us! But the precise action of many people doing it that method would ruin the system for all.

That was my whole point, thank you. b:pleased

It's like Rose's group saying, everyone can farm TT mats to sell to make coins. Which is obviously stupid. If everyone farmed mats, no one would buy them. Who would you sell it to?


EDIT: I'm a f2p player btw b:surrender (by this I mean 100%, not "I charged a couple but farmed 99%")

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Reds can you comprehend logic? Why did you totally skipped my main point?

WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR FREAKING FARMED TOKENS CAME FROM?

Not from YOU. A "couple" wizards getting rank 8 -- I don't give a **** about "a couple". When you say "an average number of wizards", then you have more valid points. Until then, nobody cares about "a couple" say, because it's not realistic for average number of people.

You said it takes effort -- who defines this effort? What about farming rep before packs? Is it the same effort? No? Where do packs come from? From effort? Or from cash shopping them? What happens if there's not enough cash shoppers? Will effort get harder and harder? Will everyone (by that I mean EVERYONE, not "a couple") get rank8 GUARANTEED by farming the same? Or will token prices skyrocket due to demand making ONLY A COUPLE able to afford it?

Jesus Christ use some logic.



Hint: there's not enough resources in the game (tokens, in this case) to accomodate it for everyone. End of story. I don't care how you twist this in your way about effort. it's always only THE TOP people who get it. I.e the top 5 farmers. It's not a question of "farm effort" or "farm points", it's a question "are you amongst the top 5 farmers on the server?"

Frankly, as long as this is based on other players and their amount of effort, your advices are meaningless.

Wow, your logic is horrible.

1) Obviously farmed tokens came from people who cash shopped. You can get tokens without having to cash shop. You can merchant stuff to get them. Grind coin and DQ and get them. You can also farm high level instances for big money to sell so you can buy them. Or, in your case you can whine and complain how you can't get any because you're just horrible at this game.

2) Personal effort isn't something you judge based off another person. Personal effort is what YOU decide to put into it. Just because you're unwilling, stupid or unable to do the same does not mean it's not possible. You could win the Special Olympics, with a little effort. Maybe.

3) Yes, several wizards HAVE farmed Rank 8 or are in the process of it. Maybe if you had spent some time in this game like many of the people who actually have friends and take time to put together regular farming parties, you would have a little more perspective to be so subjective about things you cannot possibly do yourself. If you spent as much time farming as you did hyper-frosting, you'll realize that it's easy to make money in game.

4) There are plenty of people willing to cash shop for items for the whole server. Are you too stupid or too blind to realize this by now? You think that what Rose or others do farming are done by far more people who don't talk about it on forums? Wow... your logic is just amazing.


You're just upset cause it's not handed to you. You don't want to work hard. You want to do a simple quest or two and have it given to you. Again, for the nth time, this is an MMO, it's designed to have long-term goals that you can't simply achieve by picking up a quest, activating hyper and reaping immediate gratification.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's like Rose's group saying, anyone can farm TT mats to sell to make coins. Which is obviously stupid. If everyone farmed mats, no one would buy them. Who would you sell it to?

You are a certifiable idiot. And I fixed it for you. Indeed, ANYONE can do it.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

There's only a cashshopper on the sever. You buy tokens from him by farming mats and selling to him (or they call this trading? doesn't matter).

You, as a moron, tell others "you can do this too". They start to farm mats, but this cashshopper's resources are limited. So he starts to charge more for his limited tokens compared to the bigger supply of mats.

Now everyone is stuck with farming "number of ppl" times as much because there's same amount of tokens but more people willing to follow your crappy advices that won't work.

What part of LIMITED RESOURCES do you not understand?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you realize that by you saying this- you are just encouraging your statement right? It is because of people with your attitude that make it possible for people like Red to farm rank 8 right?

So keep spewing your "logic" of it not being possible b:chuckle maybe I will get my rank 8 next because of it.

Sadly yes. I dunno why some think Rank 8 should have been available to everyone or an average player. That kinda defeats the purpose of even having any goals. I have yet to see someone who invested in Rank 8 be a fail player.

However, while I agree with Solandri and he makes a sound point about not making instances tougher, the quoted post in his own post makes a valid point too about QQers. I remember when the anni pack kept coming out last year and I saw so many cash shoppers who already had their scroll of tome and elite cash shop gear complaining for PWE to stop releasing the packs? Why? Because most either had gear they wanted to, hypocritically, keep exclusive, and not allow anyone else to have, or they invested so much into buying and re-selling packs they got their profit scroo'd when packs got released again, and this QQ'd.

And michael_dork:

Why is it so important for you to call someone out because you may or may not believe they cash shopped or farmed something? You're just an idiot.

Because I like calling out both hypocrites (see: you) and people who exaggerate claims to try and impress people.

Then we can get to the I'm-Better-Than-Everyone-Else attitude. I'm indeed a student, and working, and my laptop broke. I'm using a desktop and replacing my laptop (for school, not this game) when I can afford it, which is likely in a month. Strangely, I built my own PC with parts I bought with my own money, but I suppose since I'm now down to 1 PC that it must have been given to me by someone else for my birthday or christmas. b:chuckle

I completed my "goals" in as timely of a manner as it took me, hence the "retired" part. I farmed on the elite squads you profess to have, with players who have 5 APS like me, who had +10 - +12 claws or fists, with 3-3s in under an hour, and that wasn't even with saved instances. Hilariously, people can disagree with you without being idiots and tards, but then again maybe you have some extreme version of autism or Aspergers or whatnot and don't see past things beyond yourself, which is why I limit myself in insulting you as I'm still not sure whether or not to make fun of you further or feel bad.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Reds can you comprehend logic? Why did you totally skipped my main point?

WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR FREAKING FARMED TOKENS CAME FROM?

Not from YOU. A "couple" wizards getting rank 8 -- I don't give a **** about "a couple". When you say "an average number of wizards", then you have more valid points. Until then, nobody cares about "a couple" say, because it's not realistic for average number of people.

You said it takes effort -- who defines this effort? What about farming rep before packs? Is it the same effort? No? Where do packs come from? From effort? Or from cash shopping them? What happens if there's not enough cash shoppers? Will effort get harder and harder? Will everyone (by that I mean EVERYONE, not "a couple") get rank8 GUARANTEED by farming the same? Or will token prices skyrocket due to demand making ONLY A COUPLE able to afford it?

Jesus Christ use some logic.



Hint: there's not enough resources in the game (tokens, in this case) to accomodate it for everyone. End of story. I don't care how you twist this in your way about effort. it's always only THE TOP people who get it. I.e the top 5 farmers. It's not a question of "farm effort" or "farm points", it's a question "are you amongst the top 5 farmers on the server?"

Frankly, as long as this is based on other players and their amount of effort, your advices are meaningless.

Judging from the amounts of tokens being injected to the economy, if 500 people per server wanted to have Rank 8 in the next three months it would be very much possible right now. I know some people go through thousands of tokens per month and that's just one merchant. Also, right now, if a player who's reading this thread wants to get something by farming TTs and selling the mats for coins he would be able to get it. If everyone was doing that it wouldn't work, but we all know that won't happen.

Also, you are missing the main point here: Reds said "I didn't cashshop for my Rank 8" which I believe to be true. Yes, someone did cashshop to get that gold which was then converted to packs which contained tokens. But that's completely not the point of farming mats for coin. Currently, if you farm mats from TT/Nirvana you can sell those mats for coins which then can be exchanged for cash shop goods. You don't have to be the top farmer of your server. At least not yet.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Kupuntu, think of a broader picture. Instead of "top 5" replace '5' with a different number. It's the same principle. Obviously atm the cash shopped resources are large. But still only available for X amount of people. Since I do not have access to the log and data, I cannot calculate this 'X', but it should be easy (take the average).

I'm talking about principle here, not whether me, you, Reds, or Michael, or someone else, can do it.

I didn't say Reds didn't "farm" (quotes) her rank8 without cash shopping. I'm merely saying that is not a good definition of farming. Farming should be constant effort based on in-game rewards and goals (such as FBs and one-man armies) not based on OTHER PLAYERS.

So if a person like me complains that farming that way (not via player trade) is insane, why do they get defensive and tell me I want everything handled on a silver platter? They didn't do it themselves so it means either they were stupid enough to not do it, or they just want to act all-mighty because they done it a different way -- a way which is dependent on cash shopped resources. So please kindly I tell them to **** about me wanting it on a silver platter, it's people like them who ruin games and make all game-rewards suck to the point it's not possible to play without touching cash shopped resources (which should be OPTIONAL in the first place) by any SANE means.

Mendolin - Sanctuary

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Basically, before packs you had to "farm" R8 by getting the rep itself through buying dogtags or doing rep quests/fbs/blahblah.

After packs an easier way to get rep was established. Tokens---->rep. Comes from the Cs. Depends on the amount of people buying and opening packs.

So before it wouldn't be possible to "farm" R8, people calculated it, it would've taken years, all that jazz. After packs, it becomes possible to do it without CSing. Except it still depends on the amount of people CSing.

Because if everyone farmed for their money and used it to get R8, the demand of tokens would go up, due to fixed number of tokens and more and more people wanting them for rank. Well, this could make more people buy packs, to stabilise the pack/token price, or just drive up the token price. Either way, it involves more CSing, or "harder and harder" work [more farming for same amt of tokens/rep].

So it works when a small number of people do it which is totally fine and great. And I believe it's possible without cash shop. not hard to believe at all. But it's not possible for everyone because once everyone TRIES things change. So we have a group who says, you can do it like us! But the precise action of many people doing it that method would ruin the system for all.

That is what I think [?] people are saying. I think. Now I'll duck out again before I get caught up in an argument completely irrelevant to me.

the point is.... that people DONT do it... you can say all you want that people CAN do things or that IF the majority of the people did it, tokens would go up blah blah blah... but the fact of the matter is... is that people DONT because they WHAT-IF/CANT all their life.. Red went out there and she DID it... why put her down because of it?

you can do anything in this game through the cash shop- it is hard to find something that you CANT do by in some way using the cash shop...

b:angry damn you rose.... you used tokens to get mp event food to "farm" these said instances!! THAT MEANS YOU DIDNT FARM THEM AT ALL- YOU USED THE CASH SHOP!!
/sarcasm

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Judging from the amounts of tokens being injected to the economy, if 500 people per server wanted to have Rank 8 in the next three months it would be very much possible right now. I know some people go through thousands of tokens per month and that's just one merchant. Also, right now, if a player who's reading this thread wants to get something by farming TTs and selling the mats for coins he would be able to get it. If everyone was doing that it wouldn't work, but we all know that won't happen.

Also, you are missing the main point here: Reds said "I didn't cashshop for my Rank 8" which I believe to be true. Yes, someone did cashshop to get that gold which was then converted to packs which contained tokens. But that's completely not the point of farming mats for coin. Currently, if you farm mats from TT/Nirvana you can sell those mats for coins which then can be exchanged for cash shop goods. You don't have to be the top farmer of your server. At least not yet.

"Currently" yes, but the prevalence of claw/fist farmers was far less back when the signature was up, which means it was well before that when it started. If people are thinking at this moment that she did it, of course it's damn possible. I can farm 20m coins per day if I wanted to, easily, doing nothing but 3-3 and nirvana. However, actually read the context of what was said as far as "farming" it and you'll realize it's a grandiose statement made to impress people. And therein lies why I bothered mentioning it.. I like pointing out hypocrisy and exaggeration for the sake of impressing a crowd. It's likely the same reason why michael_aspergers_dork likes to suggest that people with only one PC must have gotten it as a christmas present.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

AnusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And michael_dork:

Because I like calling out both hypocrites (see: you) and people who exaggerate claims to try and impress people.

Then we can get to the I'm-Better-Than-Everyone-Else attitude. I'm indeed a student, and working, and my laptop broke. I'm using a desktop and replacing my laptop (for school, not this game) when I can afford it, which is likely in a month. Strangely, I built my own PC with parts I bought with my own money, but I suppose since I'm now down to 1 PC that it must have been given to me by someone else for my birthday or christmas. b:chuckle

I completed my "goals" in as timely of a manner as it took me, hence the "retired" part. I farmed on the elite squads you profess to have, with players who have 5 APS like me, who had +10 - +12 claws or fists, with 3-3s in under an hour, and that wasn't even with saved instances. Hilariously, people can disagree with you without being idiots and tards, but then again maybe you have some extreme version of autism or Aspergers or whatnot and don't see past things beyond yourself, which is why I limit myself in insulting you as I'm still not sure whether or not to make fun of you further or feel bad.

Blah blah.

Yes, you completed your goals... were any of them significant? Full set of Nirvana... Nirvana weapon, Rank8, farming Past boots/helm? Or how about even completely farming a single Lunar item or piece of armor?

You aren't very bright if you think what I'm stating is much to really boast about. One barb on my server has farmed a full 2nd cast set of Nirvana armor and rerolled their Nirvana axes at least enought to make two more G15 weapons just trying to get God of Frenzy. My meager accomplishment pales... or Fiery Devil getting his ALT sin Kitamura Rank 8, +12 Nirvana daggers, etc... His alt is better geared than MOST of the mains on our server, just by farming. Gusss what, he has at least 4 other self-leveled 10x mains with better gear than yours I'm sure. Definitely better than mine.

Before you have another lapse in cognitive aptitude, you might actually try to consider what my actual point was. Certainly none of my accomplishments are worth bragging about and if you think I am, your in-game goals must have been pretty petty, to say the least.

b:bye

RedsRose - Lost City

*face rolling keyboard*

Borsuc, you do realize that you seem to have this same QQ mentality in EVERY post that you do.

Once again, I beg of you to research or look up the definition of "farming." It might surprise you. o.o

Additionally, you CAN farm anything in this game!! ANYTHING...wait...ANYTHING!!

Now, having said the above, some just can do it 10+ times more efficiently in a shorter span of game play, while others have to put in a little more EFFORT. Effort to which you seem to not have or not want to give.


@ Mendy --> The resources are limited I had to do it...don't hate me b:cryb:cry

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"Currently" yes, but the prevalence of claw/fist farmers was far less back when the signature was up, which means it was well before that when it started. If people are thinking at this moment that she did it, of course it's damn possible. I can farm 20m coins per day if I wanted to, easily, doing nothing but 3-3 and nirvana. However, actually read the context of what was said as far as "farming" it and you'll realize it's a grandiose statement made to impress people. And therein lies why I bothered mentioning it.. I like pointing out hypocrisy and exaggeration for the sake of impressing a crowd. It's likely the same reason why michael_aspergers_dork likes to suggest that people with only one PC must have gotten it as a christmas present.

I received my Rank 8 on May 1st...As I mentioned before, you DID NOT and still DO NOT need a 5.0 APS squad to farm b:sweat

I was proud of what I did, it was not to impress people but to be proud of an achievement. Trust me in that I knew the potential backlash of me putting it in my siggy, but at that point it was an amazing acomplishment and a PERSONAL GOAL achieved.

I would do it again too...the fact is I try to impress no one...I set a goal and I go for it, conviction and motivation and being proud of something hardly makes it false, nor does it make any of my statements an exaggeration...

Mendolin - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

@ Mendy --> The resources are limited I had to do it...don't hate me b:cryb:cry

b:kiss you can make up for it later

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Now, having said the above, some just can do it 10+ times more efficiently in a shorter span of game play, while others have to put in a little more EFFORT. Effort to which you seem to not have or not want to give.

I put effort to farming and I'll just say it failed horribly.

Borsuc: I always thought the original meaning of farming was "growing crops on your lawn and selling those for profit" but I guess that's just me.

RedsRose - Lost City

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:kiss you can make up for it later

Awww Mendy b:cuteb:kiss

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I put effort to farming and I'll just say it failed horribly.

Borsuc: I always thought the original meaning of farming was "growing crops on your lawn and selling those for profit" but I guess that's just me.

Some people are just not farmers and choose to merchant. Either way it is what works for you tbh. I happen to love farming and it worked and would still work for me if I was still farming.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:kiss you can make up for it later

Maybe if you aren't always AFK on Skype you could. b:chuckle I kept Rose up all night...

b:avoid

RedsRose - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Maybe if you aren't always AFK on Skype you could. b:chuckle I kept Rose up all night...

b:avoid

b:sweat

I am not even logged into Skype atm but am on msn

And yes you did...

Borsuc - Raging Tide

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Additionally, you CAN farm anything in this game!! ANYTHING...wait...ANYTHING!!

I can, but can everyone do? Or was "you" only addressed to me and not in general?

Can I farm 10* Dragon Orbs? Or will I have to have someone cash shop them first (or sell gold to me, whatever). Cause you see, I can have someone give them to me for free. It's still a trade, isn't it?


And when I'm QQing I'm only QQing about:

1) normal farming, the one that doesn't require player trading, being too insane to do (which is why no one bothers). e.g: one-man armies and such. I have a question, why would people like you or Michael even care about it beeing "boosted" in rewards, seeing as you don't even do it? Why tell me to QQmore then? If it was fine the way it is, no one doing it I mean, why didn't you do it?

2) cash-shop exclusive stuff. D.Orbs for example. There's no way you can obtain them as a free player without trading with a cash shopper somewhere down the line. Just because you think it's fine to obtain it from a cash shopper doesn't mean it's a great concept -- in fact this is one of the faults of many f2p games. Thankfully, more and more games (even this one with event gold, even tho it's extremely insane to get (only jungle ruins is for everyone, the other one is for "top x people") and no D.Orbs) start to see this problem.

I care about this "thinking outside the box" from a bigger perspective other than just ONE player's (but as a collective instead!) because it's one of the issues in MMO games (as a former designer myself). It's bad. A certain game's blog (something about guilds and wars and it being a sequel) addresses this SPECIFICALLY and you are telling me it's not a problem?

These stuff are game-mechanics btw, I'm not talking about fashion or the likes. lol.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Blah blah.

Yes, you completed your goals... were any of them significant? Full set of Nirvana... Nirvana weapon, Rank8, farming Past boots/helm? Or how about even completely farming a single Lunar item or piece of armor?

You aren't very bright if you think what I'm stating is much to really boast about. One barb on my server has farmed a full 2nd cast set of Nirvana armor and rerolled their Nirvana axes at least enought to make two more G15 weapons just trying to get God of Frenzy. My meager accomplishment pales... or Fiery Devil getting his ALT sin Kitamura Rank 8, +12 Nirvana daggers, etc... His alt is better geared than MOST of the mains on our server, just by farming. Gusss what, he has at least 4 other self-leveled 10x mains with better gear than yours I'm sure. Definitely better than mine.

Before you have another lapse in cognitive aptitude, you might actually try to consider what my actual point was. Certainly none of my accomplishments are worth bragging about and if you think I am, your in-game goals must have been pretty petty, to say the least.

b:bye

If my goal was to have everything Nirvana'd (I liked a TT99 set better, besides the legs, and a LU&D was the last thing I got) I'd likely not have made a crapload of characters, to make one hell of an e-peen character, but in fact, as iterated, my fun in the game was doing certain dungeons for the fun of dungeon runs/raids/whatever you wanna call it, playing different characters, not making +12 **** which in the end accomplishes nothing. Yes, if you bothered reading your own posts with an ounce of introspection you'd likely see the same thing everyone else that responds to your posts (or consequently gets to read a retort of yours thinks), and that is -- braggart, exaggerator, lack of social skills, all the things that make a person with a rather large pile of issues. Doubt michael_aspergers_dork will notice that, however, because it must be everyone else, which is a frequent argument. b:laughb:bye

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Borsuc: I always thought the original meaning of farming was "growing crops on your lawn and selling those for profit" but I guess that's just me.

Damn right! But I don't think anyone claimed "I farmed fifty bucks!" or "I farmed my car!" but rather "I farm crops" b:chuckle

Asheera - Raging Tide

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Oh and there have been some Wizzies who have FARMED their Rank 8 using HH as well. And I know of 4 people on LC FARMING HH for their Rank 8's and most are about 50% of the way there if not even closer. *shrugs* b:chuckle

Anyways..I said before, I will not get into another discussion on the definition of "farming" as it is a waste of my time. Although I would suggest you look up the definitions of farming...

Dang it...it has more then one definition b:shocked

Had to quote to correct this couldn't help myself b:chuckle

You can't farm rank 8 using TT (gosh damn it stop using stupid MY terms lol). Buying something is not farming it, even if you farm the coins.

You just bought your r8 which is same as cash shopping and selling the gold on AH. Only that you farmed these coins instead of cash shopping.

But you can't say that farming coins and then buying stuff is farming that stuff directly. Unless you farm rep yourself you can't say you "farmed" r8... cuz prices of tokens are set by cash shoppers which are players, not the game itself. If I get 56k tokens for free from a quitting friend does that mean I farmed rank 8 in a day?

Same could be said if you sold an Illusion Stone for 200 million to a fool, and bought tokens 1k each from another fool.

Just saying you can't say you farmed rank 8 using TT... it doesn't compute.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Please find me a GM post or support base answer that says holding an instance was against the rules or was even a punishable offense. It wasn't a glitch. No special trick was needed to perform the bosses respawning. This was part of the mechanics and design of the game.

You might as well say that a sin who uses stealth, a BM that uses stun or a cleric who uses sleep every time cooldown is over, effectively spamming a skill you find annoying is glitching as well.

I didn't say it's a bannable offense against the rules - but an abuse of a game glitch nonetheless.

If there's a glitch that an effect from a skill lasts for 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds and is thus OP (like in some other broken games) does it mean players won't abuse it? Ofc they will, and they won't get banned for it - I mean it's the dev's fault for this skill being broken until they fix it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

AnusHeals - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If my goal was to have everything Nirvana'd (I liked a TT99 set better, besides the legs, and a LU&D was the last thing I got) I'd likely not have made a crapload of characters, to make one hell of an e-peen character, but in fact, as iterated, my fun in the game was doing certain dungeons for the fun of dungeon runs/raids/whatever you wanna call it, playing different characters, not making +12 **** which in the end accomplishes nothing. Yes, if you bothered reading your own posts with an ounce of introspection you'd likely see the same thing everyone else that responds to your posts (or consequently gets to read a retort of yours thinks), and that is -- braggart, exaggerator, lack of social skills, all the things that make a person with a rather large pile of issues. Doubt michael_aspergers_dork will notice that, however, because it must be everyone else, which is a frequent argument. b:laughb:bye

E-peen? Hardly. I enjoyed playing on my main. I am in a TW faction. I regularly face people who have spent $15k, $20k, even one person who spent $50k on the game. To not die so quickly all the time and to be competitive within my guild, to better my character AND my guild, I improved my main. I didn't go run and hide on an alt when goals or achievements became more difficult, I decided to continue on. Sorry to hear you didn't have that much faith, devotion or desire to maintain or play your primary character.

So +12 on everything doesn't accomplish anything. Neither does creating a half dozen incompetent 10x characters and hiding when you can't find more sustainable long term goals. Must suck to be one of your characters.

b:pleased

RedsRose - Lost City

I knew this thread would turn into: My Definition of "Farming"

Therefore, as I stated before, your definition is yours and mine is mine. I refuse to get into lame discussion of, farming is this or farming is that.

I have been banging my head on my keyboard at this entire thing over the last few pages because of the mindlessness of people who want to believe what THEY want and nothing else is an option.

I will leave this here...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/farming

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Would you say in real life that you farmed a car, or heard anyone use such expression then? :P

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just saying you can't say you farmed rank 8 using TT... it doesn't compute.I didn't say it's a bannable offense against the rules - but an abuse of a game glitch nonetheless.

If there's a glitch that an effect from a skill lasts for 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds and is thus OP (like in some other broken games) does it mean players won't abuse it? Ofc they will, and they won't get banned for it - I mean it's the dev's fault for this skill being broken until they fix it.

Again, it wasn't a glitch. A glitch is performing an action to achieve another that cannot happen or was not intended to happen if the first action is not taken. Mobs respawning in what 4-6 hours, bosses respawning in 20 hours isn't a glitch, that is game mechanics... or rather, was.

Why don't you actually learn the difference between a bug, a glitch and an actual game mechanic (especially one that has not been called abuse by a GM) and come back here and make a comment, statement or ask a question with some actual intelligence and understanding behind it.

b:bye

RedsRose - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Would you say in real life that you farmed a car, or heard anyone use such expression then? :P

You are grasping here...

Would you rather me say: I earned my Rank 8 $$ like I earned my $$ for a car?