Who would win in a single-class TW?

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

umm assassins can stealth no other class can touch them while they are stealthed since there are no sins on the other team how exactly could any other team do it?

Aoe any moving Cata b:chuckle

Sins would be hard to beat .. but I think they would also struggle to actually take down the opponents crystal

Lenore - Harshlands

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

umm assassins can stealth no other class can touch them while they are stealthed since there are no sins on the other team how exactly could any other team do it?

Wrong. AoEs can hit them and if there are detection pots then they can be revealed. Also because their escaping skills have a huge cooldown, they'd either be dropping like flies or not killing fast enough compared to ranged DD like archers and wizards...and venomancers.

Range and zone control are SO important to TW, that's why I picked Archers or Wizards. DB and Barrage are crucial. However I'd give barrage the edge over DB even though DB does more damage because Barrage can be used from farther away.

In a TW a couple things are important...

-You need to take down enemy units QUICKLY in order to gain ground
-You need to pull catapults into the enemy base and survive long enough for it to take down stuff, which means....
-You need zone control over grounds you already gained.

What helps the above three is: Mobility, good buffs, range.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

you mentioned aoes you can only hit aoes if you can target them and bringing apoc into it makes the whole thing unpredictable cause you could use ig come outta stealth and just own everything.

Lenore - Harshlands

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you mentioned aoes you can only hit aoes if you can target them and bringing apoc into it makes the whole thing unpredictable cause you could use ig come outta stealth and just own everything.

If you set up a few DBs on the path, and the assassin walks over it to reach enemy base = ?

You set up barrage on a tower/catapult/crystal = ?

You get a BM to take an educated guess and roar = ?

Also if all 80 assassins are in stealth, then no one on the other side is dying eh?

And if you come out of stealth to kill someone, there's another target to drop AoEs on eh?

Assassins are solo wonders. In TW they are a joke.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you mentioned aoes you can only hit aoes if you can target them and bringing apoc into it makes the whole thing unpredictable cause you could use ig come outta stealth and just own everything.

Well you would target the cata and set aoe's on that .. without using Cata's they are not going to win. So aslong as you can stop the Sin's Cata reaching the crystal you are not going to lose.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

If you set up a few DBs on the path, and the assassin walks over it to reach enemy base = sin uses stun jump = no damage

You set up barrage on a tower/catapult/crystal = sin uses stun jump = no damage

You get a BM to take an educated guess and roar = need a target

Also if all 80 assassins are in stealth, then no one on the other side is dying eh?

And if you come out of stealth to kill someone, there's another target to drop AoEs on eh?

Assassins are solo wonders. In TW they are a joke.

and to conavar simple solution the other sins that are stealthed you have them target players and take them out before they can get to anyone.

Lenore - Harshlands

Lol you make it sound like no one's TWed with sin pullers before. It was a joke, invisible or not. As soon as they had to stop to let the catapult hit anything they were dead.

kanel321

Team Cleric

Assuming the cleric group maintained a phalanx formation with each line healing the line in front

Rez + Aoe heal +buffs +ability to purge +bb from the middle support line if they are stationary = dead to everyone else

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol you make it sound like no one's TWed with sin pullers before. It was a joke, invisible or not. As soon as they had to stop to let the catapult hit anything they were dead.

and your assuming that its a normal tw but its not your archers clerics wizards venos and psy will all get 1 shot.

Lenore - Harshlands

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and your assuming that its a normal tw but its not your archers clerics wizards venos and psy will all get 1 shot.

=> assassin out of stealth => target => AoEs. And you think if an assassin pops outta stealth for the kill no one else will hit him? Mmhmm.

Qlngfu - Archosaur

and if the class that fought sins had a finger to tab? a sin out of stealth would be instantly targetted by the entire lane, can you telll me whats going to happen to a sin that gets hit by 40 cyclones/gush/aoe/normal attack/whatever in less than 2 secs?b:chuckle

MagicChu - Sanctuary

It comes down to which class is fighting against which. I can see Sin being OP for many of the other classes. An idea for Wiz team is to have 2 ppl duel each other and set up DB zhen while the other 6 stand in the Zhen. Any sin that comes in 12 meter range will be killed. If they knife throw they will be sealed/slept instantly by the wizards who are standing around. b:chuckle

DrDrakken - Lost City

MagicChu - Sanctuary wrote: »

It comes down to which class is fighting against which. I can see Sin being OP for many of the other classes. An idea for Wiz team is to have 2 ppl duel each other and set up DB zhen while the other 6 stand in the Zhen. Any sin that comes in 12 meter range will be killed. If they knife throw they will be sealed/slept instantly by the wizards who are standing around. b:chuckle

Stealth->maze steps->wolf emblem->triple spark->bow-> focus fireb:scorn

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

Cash shopper class wins this contest.

Zerhee - Lost City

I don't really know but 13 squads of hell barbs spamming cycles of hell perdition on everything that moves is something I'd like to see before I die.

Amencat - Sanctuary

hmm love this question:

sin team: weakness, they preferable 1vs.1 players, so no use if they all stay in stealth mode, as soon as one pop up he would be killed immediatly, so they would have to fight completly openly, but if they hp would go low, they would go in stealth = soon all sins are in stealth = they lost. If noone of them go in stealth the result would be:

sins vs. archers = 0:1
sins vs. clerics = 0:1

sins vs. wizards = 1:0
sins vs. bms = 1:0

sins vs. venos = 0:1
sins vs. barbs = 1:0

sins vs. psys = 0:1

veno team: weakness, too view of them use fox formes, too many of them are pure mag, pets only as assisting attacers would loose they function as tankers, better in 1 vs 1 fights, so they could concentrade more they damage, vs more players the pet would just run useless from one place to the other and get hit. They would need to use pets with a high damage and self play in fox form and debuff everything!

venos vs. archers = 1:0
venos vs. clerics = 1:0

venos vs. wizzards = 0:1
venos vs. bms = 0:1

venos vs. barbs = 1:0

venos vs. psys = 1:0


archer team: weakness, pretty low hp, pretty low defense in mag. and phys. Have to react fast, do aoe or switch to single damage depending on situation, but a lot of them working together would have nice chances.

archers vs. clerics = 0:1

archers vs. wizzards = 1:0
archers vs. bms = 1:0

archers vs. barbs = 1:0

archer vs. psys = 0:1


cleric team: weakness, physical defense. would have to heal and buff each other, as well attac. (what is about rez? O.o)

cleric vs. wizzards = 1:0
cleric vs. bms = 0:1
cleric vs. barbs = 0:1
cleric vs. psys = 1:0

wizard team: weakness REALLY SLOW casting time X_X. would have to gather in one single place and use the red aoe kill against melee classes, dont think they would have even a chance against other ranged DDs.

wizard vs. bms = 1:0
wizard vs. barbs = 1:0
wizard vs. psys = 0:1

bm team: weakness they are melee attacers, would have to run a lot and been killed before they reach they opponnents, have to devide in groups for fists, pole and axes and stun what they can.

bm vs. barbs = 1:0
bm vs. psys = 1:0

barb team: weakness low damage and melee, without a cleric they are just like a pet without a veno. have just to try they best

barb vs. psys = 1:0

psy team: attac faster, can heal each other, but low hp, low physical defense. they need to do what they just usually do lol


So every class below:
sins wins= 3, losts= 4
archers wins= 4, losts= 3
clerics wins= 4, losts= 3
wizards wins= 3, losts= 4
bms wins= 4, losts= 3
venos wins= 5, losts= 2
barbs wins= 2, losts= 5
psys wins= 3, losts= 4

so without a doubt veno team would win lol

Zerhee - Lost City

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

archers vs. wizzards = 1:0
archers vs. bms = 1:0

archers vs. barbs = 1:0

areyoubeingserious.jpg

Amencat - Sanctuary

Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »

areyoubeingserious.jpg

jes i am! couse you think only in one sided way,
as bm you used to stay in one place and duel against one player, try to hold him with a stun and force him down with brude strenght...

in such TW with THOSE rules, archers who beeing chased by melee bms, would just run away and dont fight, so bms couldnt even reach them, while other archers would attac the bms who chasing other archers, dont forget the poison and all those other stat-effects they do with they skills
even if bm use speed increase, the archer can increase for this short period of time the defense/ damage immune buff!!!

and barbs are just like normal mobs, high hp/defense low attac, low hit rate

wizard are slooow, with the critical hit rate of a high lvl archer they cant compare, who hit a squishy wiz 100 times before they end they casting!

Zerhee - Lost City

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

jes i am! couse you think only in one sided way,
as bm you used to stay in one place and duel against one player, try to hold him with a stun and force him down with brude strenght...

in such TW with THOSE rules, archers who beeing chased by melee bms, would just run away and dont fight, so bms couldnt even reach them, while other archers would attac the bms who chasing other archers, same by barb.

wizard are slooow, with the critical hit rate of a high lvl archer they cant compare, who hit a squishy wiz 100 times before they end they casting!

You might wanna actually reach endgame or see a TW before you say such things, cause you're wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

truekossy

Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »

You might wanna actually reach endgame or see a TW before you say such things, cause you're wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

I gotta agree with this. lol.

Lenore - Harshlands

Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »

areyoubeingserious.jpg

Actually that looks reasonable, but not for the reasons she described. In theory range would always have advantage over melee, and archers have magic damage (including a nifty debuff). Providing the archers are smart and don't stand in a cluster for you to AoE, while a BM is attacking an archer, several other archers would be far away focus firing with various nukes and CCs. Also, BMs lack zone control (i.e. BoA and DB).

Which leaves archers vs wizards. They both hit each other pretty hard. Barrage has a farther reach for DB's higher damage. But since we're talking range battles here, I'd give Barrage the edge in zone control. Now for damage....I actually think if everyone was well geared, wizards will definitely hit hard....per hit. This can be SLIGHTLY counterbalanced with magic defense charms. Archers hit a little weaker but faster, which makes the use of charms less effective. Now in self buffs....archer self-buff is useless against wizards, whereas Stone Barrier is immensely useful against archers. However, some archers have purge bows. That doesn't cancel out stone barrier, but it makes it bypassable if you get lucky, especially if the archers assist well. Archers also add sharpened tooth to the table, which is not only AoE but a crit booster for demons. This would be a pretty good battle, and to be honest, I think it would depend on luck and strategy/organization.


In the end though, such a battle is really a moot point. If you have pullers, you won't kill as fast, if you have DDs, you won't pull catas well. This can't really be judged well in a TW setting.

Lenore - Harshlands

Lol @ that person changing her result to venos. Nixes don't work that well at end game gear. They don't hit as hard as wizards and are squishy. You'd be silly to think a handful of archers can't kill a bunch of venos.

Magiere - Dreamweaver

My vote goes to cleric, and not only because iam one

But cleric seems to have the most options on surviving and killing.
We got physical aoes + single attack, we got magical aoes + magical attack.
We can sleep all 80 if we want and pass through with catas ^_^
We can seal & Paralyze away all 80 with our lvl 100 skill.
We can plume shell vs archers BoA,Sins etc.
Did anyone mention heals yet? :-p

I can't see how 80 skilled clerics can be beaten, since we are so versatile.

Zerhee - Lost City

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually that looks reasonable, but not for the reasons she described. In theory range would always have advantage over melee, and archers have magic damage (including a nifty debuff). Providing the archers are smart and don't stand in a cluster for you to AoE, while a BM is attacking an archer, several other archers would be far away focus firing with various nukes and CCs. Also, BMs lack zone control (i.e. BoA and DB).

Which leaves archers vs wizards. They both hit each other pretty hard. Barrage has a farther reach for DB's higher damage. But since we're talking range battles here, I'd give Barrage the edge in zone control. Now for damage....I actually think if everyone was well geared, wizards will definitely hit hard....per hit. This can be SLIGHTLY counterbalanced with magic defense charms. Archers hit a little weaker but faster, which makes the use of charms less effective. Now in self buffs....archer self-buff is useless against wizards, whereas Stone Barrier is immensely useful against archers. However, some archers have purge bows. That doesn't cancel out stone barrier, but it makes it bypassable if you get lucky, especially if the archers assist well. Archers also add sharpened tooth to the table, which is not only AoE but a crit booster for demons. This would be a pretty good battle, and to be honest, I think it would depend on luck and strategy/organization.


In the end though, such a battle is really a moot point. If you have pullers, you won't kill as fast, if you have DDs, you won't pull catas well. This can't really be judged well in a TW setting.

Good luck having an EA pull a cata through a group of coordinated WRs that can keep you perma stunned/sealed/amped and fist you to death in a quarter of a second. While on the other side I can see a WR party pull a cata through a defense made only by EAs.

As for EA vs MG, assuming they all have the same amount of brains and even gear, I really don't see the archers winning at all: ridiculous LA defenses opposed to one of the highest def classes, significantly lower damage, only a relatively short and not 100% stun opposed to 5 seconds of seal, puny aoes compared to BIDS(especially heaven), BT or hell MS (barrages would be sealed or blinked away from fairly quickly) etc.
And between blink and the possibility of being healed by multiple hell/heaven dews, I can even see them pulling catas.
That said, I'm not saying that MG>EA, I'm just saying that in a TW scenario, IMO, mages would probably have the upper hand.

Shevanel - Sanctuary

Totally Biased opinion here.
Wizards.
Their worst oponent would be archers or sins. Depending on how sins play it, it could be close.

With full endgame (+12 wep/armour, highest grade stones of atk, def or hp) Well built wizards can have some nice hp, amazing pdef and crit/-channelling. Though the HP would not match an archers, the Pdef will take damage down a fair bit. Though much slower, a Wizards crit will have a much better chance at 1shotting an archer, where as an Archer will still take 2 or more shots, and in which case, the Wizard has a charm to buffer that time if they're sniped.

Don't get me wrong, I've been killed a ton by archers, they hurt, but full end game would be interesting.

Skills - BoA > DB. Though Barrage can be out ran, and the archer has lost two sparks (Gained easy yes) Wizzies can silence the Barraging archer, knocking his barrage out. Anti seal pots are much less used than say Vacuities. Since seal is a one of a kind, it does not get resisted but WoB (BM) or the Archer skill that makes them immune to anti movement. Sage Force of Will has a little aoe which can come into play depending on how the Archers move together. Sage FoW would work better against multiple BM attacks. Wizzie ultis can still be thrown out instantly with Essential Sutra, which gives any class much less time to Abso, IG/Sutra, or interrupt.

Fortify works well against a stunning/freezing archer (Freezing works less well due to the fact a wizzie can still attack)

Wizzie instant cast sleep can work well on unsuspecting Archers, thus decreasing threat for a few seconds.

STA would rapeface on wizzies, AoE and cutting down their already precious HP. Sparking off then hitting a sutra/fortify+IG will puri STA and make you a nice threat toward Archers.

Archers assist attacking would work amazingly though. I could see it working against team Wizz if they tried the same thing, due to a number of wizzies channelling, the target is killed, the wizzies have wasted time and haven't killed anything. Could get messy.

I just thought I'd write up my thoughts of wizzies vs Archers particularly, but I see no real winner either way. Would be a masacre.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Since they're all self-buffed, mages would not have the highest defenses

It actually favors archers in that archers can take out self buffed chars fairly easily but have a lot of trouble against fully buffed chars (hence the popularity of Purge). Mages do have mobility and disables going for them, but IMO self-buffed only, mages will die as easily as unbuffed archers to mage.

Archer cat puller could probably receive Alacrities from other archers and be immune to stuns if coordinated right i guess. Most importantly, they wouldn't be running through a group of BMs, but rather archers would likely attempt to push the BMs back from range and slowly push to base. BMs will be the ones trying to run to groups of archers, not the other way around.

Range (not saying just archers) is actually pretty significant here for defense, especially with ranged chars shooting through the base walls and BM/Barbs having only gates to run through (Unless they want to face ranged in the air)

Loltank - Harshlands

Sins. They stay far enough ahead of cata in stealth to avoid any AoEs, then position the cata in the "sweet spot" of the base, only hitting the crystal. The sin then flies above the cata, and above the AoE range limit. Invinci-cata, GG.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Either Bm or Barb for me, in the end I voted for Barbs just because their HP and ability in pulling catas.

Desire - Dreamweaver

You can be the highest lvl in your server or you can have a decent lvl , you can be the most skilled char ever or not BUT i'm guessing this is a *how well you play your class* test , i wont vote cause its a big competition if you put the squads you metion in a TW since all classes have pro's and con's so we might get surprised if the class you espect less would win, cooperation and a good strategy can do miracles , i will just give the +1 to archers and a +1 to the clerics.

kenlee

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

umm assassins can stealth no other class can touch them while they are stealthed since there are no sins on the other team how exactly could any other team do it?

/facedesk
detection pots and there you go... you can see like tons of them. hit one with aoe and you get everyone of them near you plus they get kicked out of stealth