Twilight Temple Discussion

Kitamura - Lost City · August 2010

Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »

FOR Everyone Talking About How Easy It Is: Try It With An 8x/low 9x Character Squad Like It Is Supposed To Be Then We Can Talk. Until Then, PLEASE LEAVE.

At sea there's plenty of fish and we all can go near the water and get our **** wet easily, but only the guys with big boats and big nets catch the big fishes...

KuiXing - Harshlands · August 2010

X_X - Harshlands wrote: »

I gotta admit I found this thread to be a very entertaining read. Basically the argument was the different views of how this game is played. I just feel like pointing out stuff... so here are my thoughts.

Quick About Me: As of this post I am a level 85 blademaster playing mainly on Lost City. An extremely pqqr non-cash shopper. Nobody wants to do frost or TT with me. I'm such a loner (Hey! Easy! This personally describes me. xD). =(
Quick Overview

Those that argue in against of the change like RedsRose. It's mainly TT3-1 that's being argued about. Essentially they're arguing that TT90 gears should be attainable. This is more for enjoyment factor. There isn't really any argument of TT3-2 or TT3-3. So then it leads to the frustration of getting TT90 -> TT99 -> Nirvana (slightly posing a catch-22).

But wait! What about the us pro players with "end game gear" not being able to beat it? There is something wrong here!

[Insert here if applicable "I hope"] It's bugged.

Those that argue in favor of the change like Kitamura. These guys like either the monopoly, the challenging aspect, and/or staving off "unskilled n00bs". Not a lot of detail. Kitamura claims to have beaten it with "end game chars".

And then there are other random side arguments on how drops should be and how greedy the company is.

It's kinda funny that neither side have actually detailed what they did.
Bulleted Summary

It seems to me that:

Against:
"Lower levels shouldn't depend heavily on players with TT99 or Nirvana gears to farm TT90."

"Higher levels are unable to beat the bosses! (insert above reason if applicable)"

"The new challenge sucks."

"Need OMG gears"

"It's bugged."

In Favor:
"Yeah, I beat it and got drops so you should go buy the drops." Skillz > Gearz

"You guys need to find better ways. Remember the old days of using lesser gears and lack of guides?"

"Hyper/oracle n00bs should learn their class."

"The challenge is great."

In both:
"This is squad based game."/"Should be solo-able (with x, y, and z like with 9x veno w/ herc, 5 aps, etc.)"

"TT3-x is the money maker!"

"Lower levels are screwed."

"Skillz?"

So maybe you guys should make videos of strategies/proof?

And as for the GMs? I have no clue. There are very scarce posts for me to examine... the GMs are probably thinking "Meh, whatever. I'll just throw in some ideas for the developers. I got a good paycheck. n_n"
Ironically, they (or is it just frankie? If the GMs have their own roles I wonder who talks to the developers. GMs! Define yourselves!) got the developers to agree on removing the Twilight Temple time limits in which was made to originally to prevent people exploiting a cheap way to get drops.
Though, I think frankieray does the communication aspect of the company. Possibly public relations?

Final thoughts:
So you guys have valid arguments. What's more important here? Money? Skills? End game gear? Enjoyment?

Other thoughts:
OFF-TOPIC: I think there is a conflict on "end game gear". What is "end game gear"? I saw one definition of it being "TT99 and Nirvana" (notice the absence of "Lunar Glade") while another post dictates it is "80 - Nirvana".

damn girl u have to much time on ur hands b:shocked

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

Hey guys,

Please discuss Twilight Temple changes from the most recent patch here.

Thanks!

---

Update

We've spoken with the devs and they've agreed to remove the 4 hour time limit from TT.

---

Update 2 (8-20-2010)

in regards to RedsRose post

We'll test this, and if it turns out to work the way you've described (meaning that the boss acts the same way regardless of kill count), we'll submit this to the devs and see what's going on.

Here's my question for you. Forget the kill count, there is no reason to care about that if we can't kill the boss for GBAs with out an epic gear squad.

So how about fixing that first?

Kitamura - Lost City · August 2010

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here's my question for you. Forget the kill count, there is no reason to care about that if we can't kill the boss for GBAs with out an epic gear squad.

So how about fixing that first?

My brother party is killing 3-1 Colluseast (GBA boss) and Steelation (green Dude) with a 87 cleric in HH80Gold set.

Something wrong with those Epic gear ppl out there...

Bogatir - Heavens Tear · August 2010

just got out of 3-3. the squad was lvl 94-101 with average gear tt90. i think the highest refine was +6 with mostly immacs and a few perfects. wasn't bad till got to beast boss. he is much harder definitely much harder than b4. had a cpl of deaths but got him done. got to steelation who other than freezing u up and being aggravating has nvr been that much of a problem. but now OMG. nvr had a full wipe but he killed everybody in the party multiple times. took out a 101 barb 1shot twice. we finally gave up. we'll be back to try again but at this point as it stands i don't know if we'll ever get our 99 gear. 2 of us are on disability and 1 is retired. fixed income precludes us from buying our gear and we would like to earn it anyway. in the past we've gone in and had some glitches that were crazy but could reset the instance and go do the run. i love the game but this is probably going to make it impossible for us to get decent end game gear so what are we to do?

RedsRose - Lost City · August 2010

MagicChu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I suspect the recent patch has a Mob Kill glitch making the bosses near impossible to kill. Recently I was called in to help DD in a 3-1 because the lvl 100 clerics were being 1 shot aoed by collosus. I noticed the mob kill was only at 19. I suggested that before redoing the boss, that everyone kill at least 1 more mob to reach 20. Once we did that, besides the 2 deaths from his random aggro, we were able to complete the 3-1...with mirages dropping.

Tried it and it flipped out with a kill count of 38 b:chuckle

Did the same crack attacks b:surrender

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Bogatir - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just got out of 3-3. the squad was lvl 94-101 with average gear tt90. i think the highest refine was +6 with mostly immacs and a few perfects. wasn't bad till got to beast boss. he is much harder definitely much harder than b4. had a cpl of deaths but got him done. got to steelation who other than freezing u up and being aggravating has nvr been that much of a problem. but now OMG. nvr had a full wipe but he killed everybody in the party multiple times. took out a 101 barb 1shot twice. we finally gave up. we'll be back to try again but at this point as it stands i don't know if we'll ever get our 99 gear. 2 of us are on disability and 1 is retired. fixed income precludes us from buying our gear and we would like to earn it anyway. in the past we've gone in and had some glitches that were crazy but could reset the instance and go do the run. i love the game but this is probably going to make it impossible for us to get decent end game gear so what are we to do?

I been doing TT3-3s with me a cleric and a BM. I was Lv. 90 when I started to run, never had a problem. Now I wont last 2-3 shots. That's with invoke and ToP. My gear is 2-3socket and flawless, +2. I have 15,999 HP.

I also don't use charms I learned my character and learned how to maximize survival on it, but this is just ridiculously hard.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver · August 2010

squab wrote: »

AIKA AIKA AIKA **** **** **** WORLD OF ******** RAPPELZ LEAGUE OF LEGENDS CITY OF HEROES STAR WARS ONLINE STARCRAFT HALO 3 HALO REACH MODERN WARFARE 2 MONOPOLY
that is all

Is ******** censored?

oh shiiz it is. War-Craft >:O!!

KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Fail..... Guild Wars 2 b:thanks

Inb4Ban4freedomofspeech

Umm... FF?

Meiko - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For everyone talking about how easy it is: Try it with an 8x/low 9x character squad like it is supposed to be, then we can talk. Until then, PLEASE LEAVE.

Agrees 100%

Magic_Seeker - Sanctuary · August 2010

- I can solo that instance with my GM gear on.. very easily .. np b:cute

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Magic_Seeker - Sanctuary wrote: »

- I can solo that instance with my GM gear on.. very easily .. np b:cute

Can I haz? b:cry

KilledDream - Sanctuary · August 2010

those devs as u said, they dont respect us ... they why they dont come here and speak with us?

KilledDream - Sanctuary · August 2010

wow its revoltb:victory

Ashivas - Dreamweaver · August 2010

squab wrote: »

Guild wars 2, Aika, ****, World of ********, Halo 3, Halo Reach, NHL 11, NFL 11
BAN ME **** SAKES

What about FF?

And madden makes me too mad to play.

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I agree with most of what you've said, so far I haven't actually complained about the difficulty, just noted it. However, it is just too tough. Sure your sqaud or mine can end up finishing it. Figuring that it can take anywhere between 1-15 or more runs just to get an specific mat to drop, and considering if a full squad needs to farm all their gear, they'll end up doing more runs for everyone to get a piece of 99 gear (as well as spend 3-5 times more in-game time) to actually get a piece.

Please figure out your total expenditure for doing a run. My usual costs before the patch were about 125-175k. I haven't actually figured out my costs now because I haven't done more than a run to test it out. I've pretty much lost the desire to farm anymore and it wasn't because of this patch, this started weeks ago.

My little farming squad of 4 people all farmed our own full 90 green sets and had them ready, sharded and refined before we even hit 90. We also farmed our Lunar gold gear in old lunar.

I welcome an increase to the difficulty of things, however PW is not far from having any kind of consistency. Nerf frost, done. Nerf lunar, done. The increase in difficulty in 3-x wasn't just moving it up a notch or two, it was like going from beginner mode, past intermediate, past expert, and into nightmare mode. That's fine for some, including me, but not everyone can be expected to jump from easy mode gaming to the most difficult setting without getting highly upset.

It's funny though, how they've removed the 'Asian-MMO difficulty' out of the first 90 levels of the game and then only put it in for the last 10 levels. This is what I mean about consistency.

On the flip side, this could be the nail in the coffin for those thinking that they'll raise the level cap. End-game armor is now amazingly difficult to obtain, except for the most truly OP geared players in the game... and those players who farms 24/7, they'll get amazingly rich, as if they weren't making enough money before. lol

1. I'm a cheap **** sage cleric w/ a cloud eruption genie and lots of mp regen gear so my costs for doing instances are minimal w/ cheap mp pots and I'm almost always not hp charmed and keep my exp @ 0.

2. Yah I get what you are saying about possibly being too hard....but call me a ****; I like having SOMETHING in the game hard. Gimme old FF, Lunar, something...

3. How many ppl have tried being fully prepared w/ competent ppl and failed then come here and qqed nonstop?

Elronia - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Tried a 3-1 last night
Other bosses went smooth
Party was myself 100 sage wizard an 100 Sage barb with 18600 hp's an about 20k phys def no we not packing TT99 gear. Level 93 sage cleric with maxed out skills an alot of em are sage.
Lvl 91 assasin. Level 89 sage Cleric, an a level 87 Veno without a herc.
This was an attempt too simulate an figure out how the hell an at level party can kill this sucker.
Ok 1st problem the range of the aoe's is extreme, with the boss pulled into the main hall an DD/clerics at max range he's killing us. BB dont work, it one shots the cleric when they at MAX range.
It was one hitting me with 6.5k hit points No level 88 wizard will have the range on skills afforded by sage or demon skills. Remember this was an attempt to simulate an at level run.

When we figure out how to do ill be jumping on my level 86 barb an trying too do it with an at level party.
But so far its not looking good for anybody wanting too make tt 90 gear.

Aquagirl - Raging Tide · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

When increasing the difficulty in a game dungeon, it's not a huge surprise to hear players claiming that "it's too hard/ it's impossible/ it's broken". Keep in mind that several players also posted about how they were able to complete the dungeon.

Basically:

"It's too hard" - not really a bug we can test.

"Boss is behaving the same way regardless of kill count" - is definitely a bug we can test.

seriously?
wow.
wow....

Now look, I know what I usually say is mean, but ... this is not even a confirmation of what I say being true. This way beyond stupid...way beyond.
This just brings the "eff you , I took your money you GTFO" to a new level.
I really, really hope karma will eff you up for this. I really do. And I hope when it does, someone just by mistake will remind you of PWI player base.

Now you can ban me for filter circumvention and pootalk to a GM.
Pootalk is needed when I talk to a poo, just to have a common language.
EFF PWI, EFF you GMs, you're no better than the rtards managing you.

bibbibi · August 2010

to the ones wanting a challenge:

1. take off the gear you probably CSed your **** off to get.
2. take normal TT gear
3. Go to nirvana 500 times for a piece of gear

TT isnt anywhere near to OP gear. Dont see why they needed to nerf it.
Also TT never sold for much =.=
So crappy reasons like getting rid of gold farmers doesnt work.

Stop forcing people to cs =.= and stop ruining it for the lower levels
i mean wth ~__~
was planning to cs buy me hypers, battle packs, and some event packs.then later sponsor my repairs and slowly refines with TT money(slow but oh well)
but seeing these changes like heck **** it -.-
not worth cashshoping for a game that you cant make money ingame,
or that you cant even farm your base 90 gear.

and at people that spent 10k+ on this game, i can only laugh at you. a p2p would be way cheaper+ with that money can get nicer stuff irl. like a car maybe?
only mentioning this cause i know people that are relatively poor and work just to sponsor pwi wtf?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · August 2010

@Rawthorne

do it without def charms.

imo instance s broken if require to depend on them so much

what annoy me is that aoes are so unavoidable. even if tank and 2nd tank cancel few (if they manage..), boss still do those combos for 3 or 4 .. and u will get those. .especially after some kind of stun.

so u have to pretty much abuse apo there

LeirtA - Lost City · August 2010

I just skimmed through PW CN's forum few hours ago and we're not alone. They're screwed and ignored too. No GM is replying to their posts and questions regarding the changes in TT. So yep, looks like they're trying to create a mass exodus for this game.

P/s I'm in the same time zone as Beijing so at the time of skimming their forum, it should have been working hours.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Beast boss in 3-1 killed me... but that frucker died shortly after. b:bye

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · August 2010

LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »

I just skimmed through PW CN's forum few hours ago and we're not alone. They're screwed and ignored too. No GM is replying to their posts and questions regarding the changes in TT. So yep, looks like they're trying to create a mass exodus for this game.

P/s I'm in the same time zone as Beijing so at the time of skimming their forum, it should have been working hours.

Any idea when this change happened there? Also, keep us informed if you find something new.

Tayalka - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Hm..back to basic: I guess new boss-behaviour could be very interesting and brings lots of fun...but NOT in this way.

Our guild tried killing the Beast in 3-1. Nearly the whole squad was 100+...and this for an instance/ drops, u need with 90, what means farming with 88 (when 3-1 can be opened).
Ok nice...u need a 100+ squad to farm ur TT90-gear. Ehm...I dooooont know but thats kind of weird and unlogical.

Moreover, another guild-squad tried killing the 3-3 BH boss....without success. If a 102 BM with full TT-99-Gold-Set, more than enough HP (before the update we did the complete 3-3 without barb but with this BM...) or a tanking barb cannot survive- eeeehm...HOW can we do this? oO...

Ppl qq'ing about easy instances? Hm ok...but u could place the bosses with THIS behaviour (HP-debuff, aoe, sleep etc) in another, new instance. Maybe another mode (Like Solo, Squad and Strong...?) for TT with better droprates but stronger bosses or a TT 4-1 oO...

Pls change it back or make it a lil bit easier and DOABLE for lower ppl ... it's unfair for the people trying to FARM and not to buy their TT90...

Kitamura - Lost City · August 2010

Tayalka - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hm..back to basic: I guess new boss-behaviour could be very interesting and brings lots of fun...but NOT in this way.

Our guild tried killing the Beast in 3-1. Nearly the whole squad was 100+...and this for an instance/ drops, u need with 90, what means farming with 88 (when 3-1 can be opened).
Ok nice...u need a 100+ squad to farm ur TT90-gear. Ehm...I dooooont know but thats kind of weird and unlogical.

Moreover, another guild-squad tried killing the 3-3 BH boss....without success. If a 102 BM with full TT-99-Gold-Set, more than enough HP (before the update we did the complete 3-3 without barb but with this BM...) or a tanking barb cannot survive- eeeehm...HOW can we do this? oO...

Ppl qq'ing about easy instances? Hm ok...but u could place the bosses with THIS behaviour (HP-debuff, aoe, sleep etc) in another, new instance. Maybe another mode (Like Solo, Squad and Strong...?) for TT with better droprates but stronger bosses or a TT 4-1 oO...

Pls change it back or make it a lil bit easier and DOABLE for lower ppl ... it's unfair for the people trying to FARM and not to buy their TT90...

Something wrong with your guild, in my guild almost every1 did BH yesterday in 3-3 and today (same BH) ppl are doing it without problems

Segomo - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Seriously guys...Frankie said they're gonna check it out. Give them at least a DAY to do it before raising the pitch forks and torches. In all honesty, those in the crowd that have any programming knowledge should know...things CAN get messed up when new content is added.

To the people saying everyone complaining should stop, and that there's nothing wrong...honestly, it's not helping the conversation at all that you are indirectly (or directly in some cases) throwing your higher levels or higher gears in their faces. The fact is unless you're willing to either sell your drops as a much lower rate, or help the lower level people actually beat the bosses they need to get the drops...you're only spouting words.

Lvl100+: "Need your TT90 gear sir/ma'am?"
Lvl90-: "Why yes...yes I do..."
Lvl100+: "Than buy the mats I'm selling to you for 1m+ coin"
Lvl90-: "That's a bit steep isn't it?"
Lvl100+: "Than...go farm them yourself!"
Lvl90-: "But...you're the only level group that can currently farm in there..."
Lvl100+: "... ...Need your TT90 gear sir/ma'am?"

Humor intended of course...

Autumn_Hope - Archosaur · August 2010

Be realistic. Almost every change to the game recently has been to decrease your ability to make coins and increase the need to cash shop.

It isnt about stopping the Gold Farming on the chinese servers, if it was, they would implement changes like Traz stated, but instead they continue to make it harder and harder to get anywhere in this game unless you have a wad of cash.

These are not stupid people, there is a motive behind all this madness.

PooRitan - Sanctuary · August 2010

so far i killed only the 3-3 Dark Colluseast.
that 3 times.

first time 2 wipes, killed in the third attempt, every try felt easier. 2 clerics.

second time. killed without a wipe. 2 clerics and one of the clerics said he was solo healing. a few deaths by squishies.

third time. only one cleric. no deaths because the people knew how to survive a hit when it comes to it.
(ok half true, a fist archer wanted to try if he can tank it *g*, a purge finally killed him)

yeah it is harder, yeah oh my god a barb needs to know for what invoke is good for, for what you can use apo pots, genie skills, def charms...oh nos those exist?
oh nos sparking to get damage imunity for a second.
oh my god you have to know how to play the game and your class.

yes you need for this boss a good squad now and you know what? i love it.
it forces player to use all the things they can use to not get killed. to use tricks, to think about how a boss works.
it is again fun and not boring dd'ing and tanking for a few minutes to grab the drops and move on like a braindead zombi.

i can't say much about the other bosses yet. but when the difficulty is comparable then keep the changes!
when people who are just bad players quit or rethink if it was a good i idea to skip 90% of the game content up to end game with hypers and bh's because they fail in those 3-x instances then it would be great.

and no i am not a cash shopper. my gear starts to get pretty much outdated, i am not an blah awesome pro player. i havn't used a charm since i left my old tw faction what is now months ago. so far i could see majority of the squad members during the kills was uncharmed too
but i play the game since 2008 and rolled my barb the hard way.
finally something challenging.

thumbs · August 2010

PooRitan - Sanctuary wrote: »

so far i killed only the 3-3 Dark Colluseast.
that 3 times.

first time 2 wipes, killed in the third attempt, every try felt easier. 2 clerics.

second time. killed without a wipe. 2 clerics and one of the clerics said he was solo healing. a few deaths by squishies.

third time. only one cleric. no deaths because the people knew how to survive a hit when it comes to it.
(ok half true, a fist archer wanted to try if he can tank it *g*, a purge finally killed him)

yeah it is harder, yeah oh my god a barb needs to know for what invoke is good for, for what you can use apo pots, genie skills, def charms...oh nos those exist?
oh nos sparking to get damage imunity for a second.
oh my god you have to know how to play the game and your class.

yes you need for this boss a good squad now and you know what? i love it.
it forces player to use all the things they can use to not get killed. to use tricks, to think about how a boss works.
it is again fun and not boring dd'ing and tanking for a few minutes to grab the drops and move on like a braindead zombi.

i can't say much about the other bosses yet. but when the difficulty is comparable then keep the changes!
when people who are just bad players quit or rethink if it was a good i idea to skip 90% of the game content up to end game with hypers and bh's because they fail in those 3-x instances then it would be great.

and no i am not a cash shopper. my gear starts to get pretty much outdated, i am not an blah awesome pro player. i havn't used a charm since i left my old tw faction what is now months ago. so far i could see majority of the squad members during the kills was uncharmed too
but i play the game since 2008 and rolled my barb the hard way.
finally something challenging.

+1 If only other people were playing to actually play.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · August 2010

LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »

I just skimmed through PW CN's forum few hours ago and we're not alone. They're screwed and ignored too. No GM is replying to their posts and questions regarding the changes in TT. So yep, looks like they're trying to create a mass exodus for this game.

P/s I'm in the same time zone as Beijing so at the time of skimming their forum, it should have been working hours.

If they're trying to get an mass exodus form the game i guess they success. trying get them from pwi to join forsaken world instead when relaease i guess. but what pw forget is, why should players who got screwed over in a previous game, want to go to another game from same company?

Personally i wanted try FW on release cos pwi been ok. almsot.. well packs sucked. but these new changes. well dont need say anything.. I don't think i'll try any more of pw's games after this. rather P2P then.

IF pw is wanting to go bankrupt and lose their jobs in real life. i guess they'r doing excellent!
it's not about having stuff being possible to do. but having player base happy. whatever it is.

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary · August 2010

I actually bothered doing my bh today and encountered the beast in 3-3 for the first time since they changed it.

It was more difficult but definitely doable if you know its tricks, we succeeded first attempt. Alot of its debuffs/random attacks revolve around when it says various things. So learn the bosses patterns and it becomes much easier. Only really got sorta bad if alot of its stuns/seals/purge/etc ended up in the same couple seconds.

Funny thing is I also was involved in taking down the 3-1 version of this boss...and ill have to say I thought in 3-3 it was actually easier than in 3-1...weird.

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