Ok, enough is enough

Renza - Raging Tide

Pyrya - Archosaur wrote: »

Your blatant stupidity never ceases to amaze me. Gold trading is what stops bots and gold farms, it's a fantastic idea. Players can trade their gold for peoples coins, instead of buying it from a seedy gold farm site (X,000,000 coins only $20.00! -insert random url-). I have heard this in every game i have played, except this one. This ensures PWI will never have a problem with real world trading. It's a fantastic system that i applaud them for thinking of. The problem is not gold trading, it's packs. Gold trading existed far before packs ever came out and no one ever complained once. It allowed a completely free player to access the boutique through game made coin. Is that the case anymore? Yes but it sure is a helluva lot harder.

not realy sure where u got your logic from for *because we have gold trading, we have no gold sellers*, gold sellers are mainly the koreans, chinese and malaysians we have maby the rare few of them on PWI, hence no gold sellers.

now when i played pw-my, there was quite a few about, one was even a website that was aloud to sell *cubi gold* (there zen) but they also sold ingame gold aswell even when it was illegal, i actualy bought some my self a couple times since prices on that game are outrageously high.

now lets go to pw-cn, that place is infested with gold farmers/sellers, i dont even play there and i even no that from sources and friends that tell me.

SaintToadElf - Archosaur

I agree. Stop crying and whining and start providing well thought out and well worded debate.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

gold bots & instance cheaters make gold seller potential
though gold trading in stable semi high price will help prevent too

i wonder why there no sign of gold seller in PWI while other version has tons of them
is there something to do with US$ currency ? or because many cash shopper to sell gold in game

if many cash shopper want to sell their gold, that mean there plenty gold available to buy for free players
make the prices can't goes very high [before packs]

is that mean high number of cash shopper prevent gold seller ? b:surrender

and after preventing gold seller the company decide to add packs ? b:shocked
(though CN got packs first, so i am not sure)

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Sigh stupidity runs rampant Mods mod the forums they have no power in game other then what they earn. GM do have power to modify the game but their bosses generally have to approve of it. They can edit pretty much everything in game as a GM don't let them tell you otherwise thats the point of being a GM.

Mods- Forums
GM- Game
Devs- Code monkeys

Mods have no power Gms have all the power and apply what the devs made to the game at the top GMs digression. Lemme say this Devs while they are the creators usually aren't the bosses don't direct you hate towards the poor code monkeys.

Their power to summon bosses and mobs is not the only thing they can do............... they just downplay their abilities. Although a exception to that might rather be Frankieraye as thats our community manager and probably doesn't have all the powers of some other GMs like I would presume Kantorek has. Same as our Previous Community manager he who eats with a utensil called a spoon. I don't think they place much effort on this game anymore and it might actually pick up after their games are out of OB.

While money is probably important they would do hear your concerns but constantly yelling at them to fix something only accomplishes giving the mods a headache. There are some pretty bad games out there with even worse customer support then this. They fact that they are trying to get you all to be calm shows they don't have zero customer support like you all seem to believe. EVERYONE submits a ticket at the slightest drop of a hat constantly having to go through hoards and hoards of the same **** everyday would exhaust even the most stalwart Admin.

Generally speaking they try to have a light touch as you can see here everything they say is used against them so they choose to be silent instead of pandering to you all complaining. Put yourself in their shoes remove your love for the game a year ago and you hate the forums with a passion but you still have to do it because its your job pretty annoying cause if you say nothing you get burned say something and it gets picked apart like roadkill. Now also add that fact that noone is ever satisfied with anything its a living hell. But you guys never let up never understand anything they are telling you or never accept it you only know how to complain. As was said in another thread by a smart person "you guys would complain if there were no problems and someone got to close to you you would claim they were stealing your air" The forums would burn with People are stealing my air threads each one saying they just got to this conclusion and how their idea is so original that they can't stand it anymore. But everyone says the same thing and they write essay form posts about how bad things are that could easily be plagiarized from any of the thousands of other clone posts made in a single day hell a single hour. They write about how easy it would be to fix these problems and how the people who run the game are idiots for not fixing them it would be so easy. They go on to write every single thing they think is wrong with the game with the fervor of a wet piece of paper. And then people post agreeing to it how its so bad and how they can think of thousands of ways to fix it and they should get off their **** or people lecturing other people about how its a business not a charity to get over it. I mean if these people submitted these threads to a teacher they would be failed for freakin copying someone elses work. Oh but no it doesn't stop there among the copies are more copies complaining about the ****ing copied threads are you serious how intelligent to have to be to understand its been stated already and to SHUT THE **** UP about it.

I wonder are we in some kinda protest walk? Can we get out the signs and protest till we fall down? Oh what? Noones doing that thats weak just all talk huh? Or maybe if you guys know so much about the game maybe modify the game and send it to the devs and see if they can add it actions are better then words after all. I think until someone actually does this your all hot air and should stop claiming your thought is a original one in every post like your opinion actually matters to the future of the game heh yah as if. I think if you can't take a good game with a slew of non game breaking bugs you really need to find a new hobby because your tolerance for this stuff is pretty dam low.

Oh lets address things that aren't bugs but choices Packs bravo you pointed out what you think to be the problem genius really never would have thought of that in million yea............ Oh wait there were 10 threads about that this morning and 20 the day before hmmm not so fun anymore now that you just posted what the other guy posted without even a spit and polish shine. People like the packs LOTS of people and you probably would to if you actually used them instead of complaining about them.

Please just go play your game and stop trying to find every reason in the book to hate something. Basically
CHILL OUT

tl;dr - Shut the **** up and actually read the post lazy ****.


Thank you and peace out and remember chill

Asperitas - Lost City

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sigh stupidity runs rampant Mods mod the forums they have no power in game other then what they earn. GM do have power to modify the game but their bosses generally have to approve of it. They can edit pretty much everything in game as a GM don't let them tell you otherwise thats the point of being a GM.

Mods- Forums
GM- Game
Devs- Code monkeys

Mods have no power Gms have all the power and apply what the devs made to the game at the top GMs digression. Lemme say this Devs while they are the creators usually aren't the bosses don't direct you hate towards the poor code monkeys.

Their power to summon bosses and mobs is not the only thing they can do............... they just downplay their abilities. Although a exception to that might rather be Frankieraye as thats our community manager and probably doesn't have all the powers of some other GMs like I would presume Kantorek has. Same as our Previous Community manager he who eats with a utensil called a spoon. I don't think they place much effort on this game anymore and it might actually pick up after their games are out of OB.

While money is probably important they would do hear your concerns but constantly yelling at them to fix something only accomplishes giving the mods a headache. There are some pretty bad games out there with even worse customer support then this. They fact that they are trying to get you all to be calm shows they don't have zero customer support like you all seem to believe. EVERYONE submits a ticket at the slightest drop of a hat constantly having to go through hoards and hoards of the same **** everyday would exhaust even the most stalwart Admin.

Generally speaking they try to have a light touch as you can see here everything they say is used against them so they choose to be silent instead of pandering to you all complaining. Put yourself in their shoes remove your love for the game a year ago and you hate the forums with a passion but you still have to do it because its your job pretty annoying cause if you say nothing you get burned say something and it gets picked apart like roadkill. Now also add that fact that noone is ever satisfied with anything its a living hell. But you guys never let up never understand anything they are telling you or never accept it you only know how to complain. As was said in another thread by a smart person "you guys would complain if there were no problems and someone got to close to you you would claim they were stealing your air" The forums would burn with People are stealing my air threads each one saying they just got to this conclusion and how their idea is so original that they can't stand it anymore. But everyone says the same thing and they write essay form posts about how bad things are that could easily be plagiarized from any of the thousands of other clone posts made in a single day hell a single hour. They write about how easy it would be to fix these problems and how the people who run the game are idiots for not fixing them it would be so easy. They go on to write every single thing they think is wrong with the game with the fervor of a wet piece of paper. And then people post agreeing to it how its so bad and how they can think of thousands of ways to fix it and they should get off their **** or people lecturing other people about how its a business not a charity to get over it. I mean if these people submitted these threads to a teacher they would be failed for freakin copying someone elses work. Oh but no it doesn't stop there among the copies are more copies complaining about the ****ing copied threads are you serious how intelligent to have to be to understand its been stated already and to SHUT THE **** UP about it.

I wonder are we in some kinda protest walk? Can we get out the signs and protest till we fall down? Oh what? Noones doing that thats weak just all talk huh? Or maybe if you guys know so much about the game maybe modify the game and send it to the devs and see if they can add it actions are better then words after all. I think until someone actually does this your all hot air and should stop claiming your thought is a original one in every post like your opinion actually matters to the future of the game heh yah as if. I think if you can't take a good game with a slew of non game breaking bugs you really need to find a new hobby because your tolerance for this stuff is pretty dam low.

Oh lets address things that aren't bugs but choices Packs bravo you pointed out what you think to be the problem genius really never would have thought of that in million yea............ Oh wait there were 10 threads about that this morning and 20 the day before hmmm not so fun anymore now that you just posted what the other guy posted without even a spit and polish shine. People like the packs LOTS of people and you probably would to if you actually used them instead of complaining about them.

Please just go play your game and stop trying to find every reason in the book to hate something. Basically
CHILL OUT

tl;dr - Shut the **** up and actually read the post lazy ****.


Thank you and peace out and remember chill

Personally, I don't know how plagiarism has anything to do with this.

I think the forums have only degenerated so far because there's been a constant hate buildup from a lot of things the GMs have done and said.

Like OP said, this has only become a recent occurence, from this patch.

But take a look.

Anniversary packs were ignored.
DQ compensation still pending.
That genie reset thing took forever, if they ever got back to it that is.
Bugs that are years old never got fixed.

Maybe they're not gamebreaking, and I realize games can't be perfect. Be honest with us for that. Tell us you're not perfect. Tell us you're working on things.

But what do we hear? Excuses that have clearly gone through no logical thought process, excuses that are nothing but white lies, excuses that insult the very intelligence of its players.

I don't rage at them because of the things they did. I'm raging at them for the things they say.

Like Airyll said, I think the masses would have been a lot more calmer had they taken a more honest approach to the TW pay cut. I also realize, like Michael_Dark said, you can't outright go against your company policy.

Therefore, I think something like this would have been better.

"Hey guys, I realize we have made a dramatic change to the TW payment system, but we hope that with it being non-refundable with a higher minimum bid, it will discourage bigger factions from creating random small factions and fake bidding. Also, it has been noted that TW is a system with a positive loop. That is, the winners keep reaping more and more benefits, larger and larger rewards, and this seems to be detrimental to competition. And while we realize this is a very controversial issue, we're hoping to stimulate less domination of the map, and more factions to join in on the war.

Please keep in mind, we will be keeping an eye on the amount of TW activity. Your concerns have been noted, and within 1 or 2 months, we should have gathered enough data to decide our next move."

I don't know. I just came up with that off the top of my head. But something that isn't clearly contradictory with your company's next move.

TL;DR: I don't think it's so much what they're doing, but the lack of honest communication that we receive. That's something to rage at.

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

blablabla

I wonder are we in some kinda protest walk? Can we get out the signs and protest till we fall down? Oh what? Noones doing that thats weak just all talk huh? Or maybe if you guys know so much about the game maybe modify the game and send it to the devs and see if they can add it actions are better then words after all. I think until someone actually does this your all hot air and should stop claiming your thought is a original one in every post like your opinion actually matters to the future of the game heh yah as if. I think if you can't take a good game with a slew of non game breaking bugs you really need to find a new hobby because your tolerance for this stuff is pretty dam low.

Oh lets address things that aren't bugs but choices Packs bravo you pointed out what you think to be the problem genius really never would have thought of that in million yea............ Oh wait there were 10 threads about that this morning and 20 the day before hmmm not so fun anymore now that you just posted what the other guy posted without even a spit and polish shine. People like the packs LOTS of people and you probably would to if you actually used them instead of complaining about them.

more blablabla

The only thing a community can do is talk and SUGGEST (yes you read it right, no need for glasses). Even if we did modify the game for the better, it would get thrashed without even looking at it.

There's been an endless rant the last few days because the staff is ignoring the one thing causing all the big issues now and blaming it on something else (which has been changed in a ridiculous way).

People like packs? I'm sure they do, but according to those probably 190+ pages in the one thread, it's mainly those very packs' fault that the gold price is still this high and no, TW pay doesn't increase gold price, QQMoar mods/admins/Devs .

@Tolerance part/QQ: after a year with packs and these gold prices, i believe we've been tolerant enough. There has been countless and countless of suggestions that would MAYBE fix the game a bit so it's again playable for normal people who want a F2P game (without the Pay2Win stuff), but all we ever achieved EVER was the "Perfect Horns" who got removed.

TW pre-Anni 1.0 was fun to do, ppl actually farmed their stuff and TT99 etc etc was nice stuff to have, + you had to earn it so to speak. After september 2009 it was becoming more..meh ppl with uber gear k..not that much of a big deal, harder to kill/survive. But please? After a year TW for non-CS'ers is getting hard-ish and now with the latest 2 patches, they completely screwed up the last part of the game that was keeping ppl amused.

After "Chilling out" for a year....it's now just pure bs.

/rant

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait, what? They banned Kephras?

You know that's not even in the realms of acceptable. Kephras only recently started speaking out against what was happening here in a more angry tone and he never once actually laid the blame on GMs for the TW change or DQ nerf, ever. He, like the rest of us, blamed them for their lack of honesty and their poor excuses.

And he's been banned for that? I suppose we're all next then if they're banning guys like Keph. I think I might also have a petition to unban Keph, I enjoyed reading his posts on this forum. Very well thought out.

Unreasonable bans. I never even touched on those in my posts. I've seen enough unreasonable bans on this forum in the past two months to last me a lifetime. As an acting admin on several other forums, I'd have had the lynch mob on my **** so fast for even one unreasonable ban, nevermind the amount GMs can dish out now.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can bet I'll be PMing mods and/or GMs about Keph's ban because as far as I can see it was completely unwarranted. I seriously don't see why he was banned. Unless maybe the GMs took his recent video OHSOPERSONALLY but they seem to be doing a fine job of censoring the insulting posts people make about them without ever banning them.

The way things are run around here these days is so screwed up it hurts. I'll say it again:

Bring back Spoons. [At this point, my conspiracy theory is that he was fired because he cared. And because he did a damned good job of being a part of this community and keeping people relatively up to date.]

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

He kept posting links to videos that contained 'vulgar' language. It was his anti-pack video that got him the banhammer. It's probably only a day or three, but still... he had been warned. Do I agree with the ban? Of course not, but what can I do. Failure to listen to a GM or Mod will get you banned.

A little late maybe, but he actually got banned for posting a picture of a middle finger and calling out to the GM's, the rest apparently has nothing to do with it. Just so ya know.

NoImKrel - Heavens Tear

RainKilganon - Lost City wrote: »

I'm really getting sick of seeing how this community is acting lately. I'm not going to pretend I like the new updates (as a matter of a fact I hate them), but seriously, lay off the GMs. I'm not the type that usually stands up for those in power, but you know what? The GMs can't do anything, other than talk, to make things change. The devs have done this, so put the freaking lynch mob away and stop making every post "QQ gms suxxorz".

No wonder nothing gets done, would you stick your neck out to help a customer that has been screaming at you all day? This is like going into McDonalds and screaming at the crew person because your favorite burger went up in price. All you're doing is placing the blame in the wrong place, making someones job a living hell, and making yourself look like a fool.

Do I think we should be silent? God no. But we, as a community, need to stop acting like 5 year olds. Maybe then we'll be treated as more than 5 year olds. Grow up, its getting old.

umm the GM's are ambassadors of the dev's so yeah they have to take on the blame its a part of the job..they can get over it or quit.

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

DQ compensation still pending.

I was wondering about that, so I talked to a friend about it.

To her, the DQ compensation is Jones' Blessing. DQs are drops that people grind for and NPC away so... Jones Blessing = Faster kills = More drops = More coins.

I still don't like how it can be abused in PvP, but it certainly changed the way I view it, and I'm far more receptive than I was initially.

I'm curious what would happen though, if they didn't remove the 10 million exchange, but instead reduced it to 8 million for a start. Would be interesting.

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear

NoImKrel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

umm the GM's are ambassadors of the dev's so yeah they have to take on the blame its a part of the job..they can get over it or quit.

We are all accountable for our own actions. The GMs (and to a lesser degree the mods as well) are responsible for representing PWE, true. But the decisions of what to implement or leave out, what goes on sale and when - they have no say in these things.

Likewise, we are responsible for representing ourselves respectably so that our opinions and views can be conveyed. Granted, this isn't always the case, but trust me when I say that losing our composure gains us nothing.

The breakdown lately, it seems, is that PWE's decision makers have not been listening, and that needs to change - either an accurate and honest post from a GM to make it clear why, or some solid evidence that they are. As others have said, the number one thing that will help right now is just a bit of transparency between Corporate and ourselves.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

lately? where you been.

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear

Don't be deceived by a low postcount or innacurate join date. I've been around.

RainKilganon - Lost City

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We are all accountable for our own actions. The GMs (and to a lesser degree the mods as well) are responsible for representing PWE, true. But the decisions of what to implement or leave out, what goes on sale and when - they have no say in these things.

Likewise, we are responsible for representing ourselves respectably so that our opinions and views can be conveyed. Granted, this isn't always the case, but trust me when I say that losing our composure gains us nothing.

The breakdown lately, it seems, is that PWE's decision makers have not been listening, and that needs to change - either an accurate and honest post from a GM to make it clear why, or some solid evidence that they are. As others have said, the number one thing that will help right now is just a bit of transparency between Corporate and ourselves.

This, this, and more this.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

lately? where you been.

True, there has been turmoil for a long time, but the breakdown that he mentioned IS only lately, as the forums have degenerated into chaos. And yeah, assuming im correct about something, I'll take C/\LL|E's word for it when (s)he says that losing our composure gains nothing. Which is basically saying what i meant in op, just more eloquently than I did.






Also, I know I defended the GMs in here, but i do agree with everyone who has said that more communication is needed. That, and that mostly, is what made everyone love Spoons. He communicated with us. As i said before, I know alot of what we throw at them isnt aiming the blame in the right direction, but yes, lack of communication is the one MAJOR thing we can say, and should continue to say. Again, just maturely please b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A little late maybe, but he actually got banned for posting a picture of a middle finger and calling out to the GM's, the rest apparently has nothing to do with it. Just so ya know.

Thank you for the clarification.

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Perfect Horns?

Sorry, you've failed.

b:bye

What about them?

They weren't making enough money for the company so they were removed. If ******** at the GMs are the reason that they're gone then packs would have been removed long ago.

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear

Shandelzare - Sanctuary wrote: »

What about them?

They weren't making enough money for the company so they were removed.

Yes, that likely had something to do with it. As did the instant firestorm that erupted on the forums when they were introduced. But let's not forget one other factor involved: direct player harassment.
How many people immediately whispered enraged or vulgar replies back to anyone who dared use the Horns? And how many were using the Horns specifically to annoy those same people?

I suspect people opening packs don't get anywhere near the amount of rage and profanity every time Duke Shouts "Somebody has just acquired Token of Best Luck!" If it were a brutally unpleasant experience, fewer people (and especially the "casual" pack-openers who buy one or two on chance and hope) would be less inclined to participate.
And lest you confuse my intent, no, I'm not saying you should all start spamming them with hate.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not saying you should all start spamming them with hate.

Well that would pretty much be a fulltime job lol

Remmi - Raging Tide

_Ghostz_ - Archosaur wrote: »

when they banned Keph, one of the most claim, collected, and overall upstanding person people on the forum

Hmm... kinda shows you that sticking your neck out for PWI and the promotion of the game to others, doesn't give you any credit to comment.

If you want to give back to the community, fine, we appreciate it.
Giving back to the company, apparently no such thing.

I don't know who the people are in China that caused all the troubles on the servers, that we are now paying for or what they did exactly to better themselves at the expense of the company. But if it happened today on our server, I think I'd understand

Longknife - Harshlands

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"We will lower the price of gold" STILL WAITING

The devs can only influence the price of gold; not lower it. Plus higher gold prices means more profit for them, so seriously? You expect them to hurt their profits for you? They might, but don't hold your breath.

"We will sort DQ price out" STILL WAITING

I'm GLAD they made the DQ price change. It shows me that the devs are actually thinking, monitoring and working on the game. There's tons of MMOs where the devs don't do jack and end up making really big mistakes that could've been avoided if they knew **** about what was going on in game.

"We will fix tw issue' STILL WAITING

When did they say that?

"We will fix the graphic issue" STILL WAITING

What graphical issue and when did they say that?

"we will fix rubber band" STILL WATING

When did they say that? I've complained about this before and the answer I always got was that they're unwilling to, and the reason rubber banding exists in the first place is to prevent some hacks the Chinese have been using.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Anniversary packs were ignored.
DQ compensation still pending.
That genie reset thing took forever, if they ever got back to it that is.
Bugs that are years old never got fixed.

I don't rage at them because of the things they did. I'm raging at them for the things they say.

Therefore, I think something like this would have been better.

"Hey guys, I realize we have made a dramatic change to the TW payment system, but we hope that with it being non-refundable with a higher minimum bid, it will discourage bigger factions from creating random small factions and fake bidding. Also, it has been noted that TW is a system with a positive loop. That is, the winners keep reaping more and more benefits, larger and larger rewards, and this seems to be detrimental to competition. And while we realize this is a very controversial issue, we're hoping to stimulate less domination of the map, and more factions to join in on the war.

Please keep in mind, we will be keeping an eye on the amount of TW activity. Your concerns have been noted, and within 1 or 2 months, we should have gathered enough data to decide our next move."

Lets just start with how wrong this is for starters nobody had a better suggestion until much later about the packs all they said was remove them. And that was to reduce the ability to get the good items to balance it out..........guess what? They took it.

Nobody said you would get compensation

Taking away the free resets? abuse of them much? they needed to be gone.

Point? lets see the magic shell buff really thats one of the only "years" old one there is.

And yes thats exactly what I said


Um you realize of course they said exactly this before they released it and people had plenty of time to complain but noone did.

And its not a recent occurrence the whining has been going on non stop since the first Halloween of PWI with no sign of slowing.

Plagiarism applies because everyone is constantly saying the same thing like some of the Opening posts look back at the thousands made over the past year and you will see like the same sentences in almost everyone nearly every line barely altered from post to post. Thats exactly it.


Thank you longknife very intelligent *claps* ^_^ good work.

Asperitas - Lost City

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lets just start with how wrong this is for starters nobody had a better suggestion until much later about the packs all they said was remove them. And that was to reduce the ability to get the good items to balance it out..........guess what? They took it.

Nobody said you would get compensation

Taking away the free resets? abuse of them much? they needed to be gone.

Point? lets see the magic shell buff really thats one of the only "years" old one there is.

And yes thats exactly what I said


Um you realize of course they said exactly this before they released it and people had plenty of time to complain but noone did.

And its not a recent occurrence the whining has been going on non stop since the first Halloween of PWI with no sign of slowing.

Plagiarism applies because everyone is constantly saying the same thing like some of the Opening posts look back at the thousands made over the past year and you will see like the same sentences in almost everyone nearly every line barely altered from post to post. Thats exactly it.


Thank you longknife very intelligent *claps* ^_^ good work.

I can't find the original post, but the latest response from frankie about DQ compensation was "we haven't forgotten about it, we're still working on it." It's been promised we'll get compensation. We haven't gotten it.

Free resets? This was after they totally redid the whole genie system and 99% of the genies people had made previously were rendered useless. This wasn't a generous gift. This was to help soften the blow for the thousands of genies they messed up. They didn't announce there would be a time limit and just removed it, leaving a lot of people stranded. I don't know how this issue was resolved, but I'll be optimistic and say they coughed it up after months of waiting.

There's always been a certain amount of dissatisfaction, unease if you will, towards the GMs, stemming from the multitude of issues that are either swept under the rug (DQ), ignored (anni packs), or taken months and months of pestering to be resolved (genie resets).

It's only hit breaking point recently because of the explicit hypocrisy coming from the GM's mouths.

"We are fighting inflation"
"We are putting in packs permanently"

Wait what? How is reducing TW pay fighting inflation? How is putting in packs permanently fighting inflation? Nobody can deny that there's been a severe lack of honest, transparent communication between the staff and the player.

Lastly, it's to my belief that players aren't mostly pissed about the things being done. It's about the things being said. The most ludicrous explanations, the most hypocritical actions. If I told you not to eat ice cream because it's bad for you, then turn around and eat ice cream myself, you'd be annoyed wouldn't you?

Plagiarism has nothing to do with this. We're not taking credit for somebody else's work. We're merely restating what needs to be said, because clearly the issues have not been resolved, and we're not being told why. And even then, even if we're using ideas that's been stated before, what's wrong with that? It's relevant, it's timely, and a lot of the ideas make sense. The fact that we have to bring them up again and again is a testament to what's not been done, or what has not been addressed.

This isn't a school paper. We're trying to prove a point. We're trying to get things done. I don't care if people are using things from a year ago, from John Maynard Keynes or hell Adam Smith. It's to prove a point.

We have a saying for this:

天下文章一大抄

Basically meaning, all the literature in the world is just one big copy. There's no point bringing up plagiarism. The same way my arguments have been brought up before, yours have too. Most uf us don't even take credit for the idea. If anything, it's regurgitation, not plagiarism.

Longknife - Harshlands

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you longknife very intelligent *claps* ^_^ good work.

You know what I'm really sick of? Just the complaints where people dunno what the hell they're talking about and they're complaining for the hell of it.


Yes the DQ price drop sucks, but as I said, you CANNOT deny that it shows the devs are monitoring the game. They're RESPONDING to problems that they recognize. This is a good thing, even if you may not directly realize it. It's sort of a similar concept to the government increasing taxes: no one ever likes higher taxes, but the thing you gotta realize is your taxes are funding various government programs that you use and enjoy. No one will like the DQ price drop because it means lower income, but it's a step taken to prevent some hacks seen in china and helps balance the economy. I'm sure everyone here will gladly try to argue that they know what's better for the economy though...


One of those arguments is to get rid of tokens. Yeah, that's actually probably correct. The economy would balance more without them. However, tokens are used to get a couple items that can't otherwise be obtained, and I personally would be MUCH happier if this was PWI's main source of income instead of an essential item to PVP like Dragon orbs. If dragon orbs weren't as cheap as they were, THEN we'd really be crying. That would seperate the rich from the poor PVP wise, and there are plenty of MMOs that do use the refinement materials as their main source of income.
So cool, instead we have a TOTALLY UNNECCESARY item as PWI's main source of income. That's great. The only way it's neccesary is for ~9 sage/demon skills per class, but hey that's a fair compromise.
What's more, people have suggested that if they don't remove the tokens, they AT LEAST reduce the chances of getting Best Luck tokens, which dump more money into the economy. Well guess what: they did it. They willingly took a hit to their income to help fix this issue: the new packs have lower chances of Best luck tokens. It may not be the PERFECT fix, but they've shown they're LISTENING and that they're willing to compromise. That's GOOD.





For the life of me, I can't name a time they promised rubber banding would be fixed. I complained twice and both times they said they were unwilling to fix it as it would require too much change to the coding AND that rubber banding is a form of fix as a response to hacks in China. Maybe they've said they would fix it before, I dunno, but it sure feels like 90% of the community is just making stuff up and not actually basing their complaint on an ACTUAL promise made by the GMs that they themselves saw first-hand.

Hell, another thread a girl was complaining that stupid PWI won't let her soulspheres, saying they were better than the other magic weapons. Go look up the damn attack rate on soulspheres and compare it to other magic weapons. THEY'RE LOWER.







So, lemme suggest this to the people complaining: There are soooooo many complaints and soooooo many that are flat-out misinformed or seem to be complaining for the sake of complaining, that in my opinion, all you're doing is encouraging the GMs to just stop listening. If you're going to complain, don't whine. Be objective in your complaint, state FACTS and don't every sentence with "but of course stupid old PWI had to f*ck that up," "omg they can't do anything right" or anything similar. The whines like that just make the forums sound like a bunch of naive teenagers trying to tell us that their mother "JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ME" when she most likely does.

I'm sure if the complaints calmed down in this regard, then we could both get more serious complaints and suggestions heard and get more results.

ValFera - Heavens Tear

First off i would like to say that i agree with the OPs coments, but we need to do something to let the management know we are upset.

First lets try this.....
UNLIKE them. Make thier facebook numbers drop. If everyone who was ticked off at them did this it wonld make an impact and show them they are loosing the respect of the players but NO it keeps going up!!!!!!!!!! b:angry

Second lets try this......
Contact the company directly. A few minutes of clicking around on thier site and a quick goold seach produced this.

1001 E. Hillsdale Blvd. Suite 800
Shell Blvd.
Foster City, CA, 94404

Found a second one on businessweek site with phone number

2200 Bridge Parkway
Suite 201
Redwood City, CA 94065
650-590-7700

lets everyone meet outside thier office and let them know how we feel b:laugh

nerdraging

I don't know how some of you guys get the idea that GMs don't have a say in anything. Because they told you so? After all that has happened and you still believe in what they say?
It's a well known and commonly used tactic to deflect blame onto someone anonymous you'll never see or hear from and its widely used by unscrupulous executives and companies in the corporate world.

How many times have we heard salesmen say 'I'll check with my boss on this one and get back to you'? I know I've said it countless times when I could have made the decision myself. It was just a tactic for me to buy time and let the customers stew a bit in their own juices. They don't know who my boss is and I know they won't bother taking the trouble to find out. All I have to do is just make sure I can be there to handle it before they lose all of their patience. I'll even let them throw their temper at me just to stop them from going to talk to my boss. It's a grinding tactic to wear the customers down.

Pffft! They told you they don't have a say in what gets implemented and have no say in running the game and you guys believed. If they told you they weren't getting paid for the past 3 months I bet some of you guys would start passing around the hat and collect donations for them. They're just playing on your gullibility and good nature.

Longknife - Harshlands

nerdraging wrote: »

I don't know how some of you guys get the idea that GMs don't have a say in anything. Because they told you so? After all that has happened and you still believe in what they say?
It's a well known and commonly used tactic to deflect blame onto someone anonymous you'll never see or hear from and its widely used by unscrupulous executives in the corporate world.

How many times have we heard salesmen say 'I'll check with my boss on this one and get back to you'? I know I've said it countless times when I could have made the decision myself. It was just a tactic for me to buy time and let the customers stew a bit in their own juices. They don't know who my boss is and I know they won't bother taking the trouble to find out. All I have to do is just make sure I can be there to handle it just before they lose all their patience. It's a grinding tactic to wear the customers down.

Pffft! They told you they don't have a say in what gets implemented and have no say in running the game and you guys believed. If they told you they weren't getting paid for the past 3 months I bet some of you guys would start passing around the hat and collect donations for them.

But they DON'T have a say. Just like how PWI can only influence gold prices and not set them themselves, GMs can only influence the devs but can't make changes themselves.

They may be sitting on their asses, they may be relaying every single suggestion made: we don't know and we can never know. However, many people have complained about Best Tokens of luck playing a part in inflation, and now there's less of them. We've gotten results, so why assume the worst of the GMs?

nerdraging

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

But they DON'T have a say. Just like how PWI can only influence gold prices and not set them themselves, GMs can only influence the devs but can't make changes themselves.

They may be sitting on their asses, they may be relaying every single suggestion made: we don't know and we can never know. However, many people have complained about Best Tokens of luck playing a part in inflation, and now there's less of them. We've gotten results, so why assume the worst of the GMs?

How do you know they don't have a say?
Do you work there?
Did they tell you?
Are you related to one of them?
Have they shown you a chart of their company's infrastructure?

Most times a lot of the front line employees can do more than they're letting on and the reason they don't is because they're saving that move as an ace up their sleeves and pulling it out when it really matters most. Now isn't the time for them to pull out that ace or so they think.

Being able to influence something or someone is as good as getting it done myself. I don't even have to do the dirty work.

The Chinese have a saying for this

借刀杀人

Loosely translated it means killing someone by using someone else to do the dirty work.

In the eyes of the law, the mastermind is just as guilty as the one who's doing the dirty work. They want gold prices to go up? Easy, put in packs again. Prices don't go up as much as planned? Easy, let's put in a different pack this time and let's make the % a bit higher of getting something good for a week and lower it after all the suckers start buying in. That's playing on gullibility. There's a sucker born every minute and we're the ones. Why assume the worst? Let's just say I have been in and seen my fair share of how the corporate world operates. Like someone said, it's a dog eat dog world and we're the ones being eaten. Some of us don't like it but some of you are still happily telling them to add more marinate for a bit more flavor.

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear

nerdraging wrote: »

How do you know they don't have a say?

Because the people who create this game are on the opposite side of the world, in Beijing.

nerdraging

C/LLlE - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because the people who create this game are on the opposite side of the world, in Beijing.

DOH! Tell me something I don't know and that's precisely the point they're using. The blame always lie on someone who's half a world away. You'll never be able to see them, hear them or touch them. It's so much easier to deflect blame when it's an anonymous person you're deflecting it to.

Longknife - Harshlands

nerdraging wrote: »

How do you know they don't have a say?
Do you work there?
Did they tell you?
Are you related to one of them?
Have they shown you a chart of their company's infrastructure?

Most times a lot of the front line employees can do more than they're letting on and the reason they don't is because they're saving that move as an ace up their sleeves and pulling it out when it really matters most. Now isn't the time for them to pull out that ace or so they think.

Being able to influence something or someone is as good as getting it done myself. I don't even have to do the dirty work.

The Chinese have a saying for this

借刀杀人

Loosely translated it means killing someone by using someone else to do the dirty work.

In the eyes of the law, the mastermind is just as guilty as the one who's doing the dirty work. They want gold prices to go up? Easy, put in packs again. Prices don't go up as much as planned? Easy, let's put in a different pack this time and let's make the % a bit higher of getting something good for a week and lower it after all the suckers start buying in. That's playing on gullibility. There's a sucker born every minute and we're the ones. Why assume the worst? Let's just say I have been in and seen my fair share of how the corporate world is. Like someone said, it's a dog eat dog world and we're the ones being eaten. Some of us don't like it but some of you are being eaten up and still happily telling them to add more marinate for a bit more flavor.

....But I've already addressed this point.


You can ALWAYS say "How do you know that!?!" Why? Cause you can't prove a negative. You can't prove there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. (technically you could, but realistically, no you can't) You can't prove that God doesn't exist. You can't prove that the GMs AREN'T doing their job. If you sit there and try to argue via negatives as you are, then you'll never pull out of Iraq and decide there truly aren't WMDs, you'll always believe in God simply based on the fact that you can't disprove God and you'll ALWAYS think the GMs aren't doing their job.



Stop asking yourself what AREN'T they doing and start asking yourself what ARE they doing. You CAN prove that there are WMD's in Iraq, and if you're having trouble doing so, it probably means there aren't any. You CAN prove the GM's have done their job before, and if you're having trouble doing so, then it probably means they aren't doing it. They ARE responding to these threads, the devs ARE making changes to the game that acknowledge the economical issue (the method they use, you're allowed to agree or disagree with) and they HAVE released a different token pack that has lower chances of giving Best tokens of Luck right after tons of forum goers suggested they were a contributing factor to the inflating economy.





You can continue with the paranoia about not believing the GMs when they say "we are not devs and can't directly make game changes ourselves; we can only suggest changes and relay the voice of the people," but that won't get us anywhere. With the logic you're using to approach this issue, you'll keep complaining until the day PWI dies.

Zylphia_ - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

They don't have direct control over gold prices, but the sales that they do certainly influences the demand for boutique items, and in turn gold prices. It's exactly this type of hypocrisy that irritates me. Not so much that they put packs in, but after saying they're going to fight inflation "for the good of PWI", they do the exact opposite. And it's these types of things that have to stop if we're going to have a good GM-player relationship.

I think honestly in the end, what matters to the decision-makers is their income. The more people pour their money into the game the happier they are. Hell yes, of COURSE the packs will always be there. So many people are sucked into the gamble on PWI that removing them would mean not as much money coming in for the company. So it only makes sense the packs will stay. I think it's funny how no one's bothered to mention that at all...

But as for the OP, I do agree that bashing the GMs is the wrong way to voice a complaint... I worked as one of those technical service reps for a cable company once and heard plenty of yelling and screaming unhappy customers. Yelling at the customer service rep isn't the right thing, but it's what people do because they think you could pass the word lol... which unfortunately doesn't happen most of the time. It's all about the sales. As long as there's money coming in, they're not going to change anything. They'll just keep coming out with more **** people will spend all their money on.

As for bug fixes and stuff like that, yeah... I think they're lazy on that end. Especially concerning the recent UI update. But again that's not the GMs' fault.

I feel for the GMs mostly.. because they're the ones in the line of fire. Even if they did pass the word to their boss, etc, I don't know that it would really make any difference.

If you hate the way the game's going, you may as well quit. Because honestly, I don't see how anything will change any time soon unless some miracle were to take place.