An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
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TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »Removing the reward for owning lands is obviously killing of the interest to do TW. No doubt about that. Small/Mid factions dont wanna risk loosing the re-found over a few mirages and bigger factions that dont give a **** anymore.
Imo for smaller TW factions its the lack of refunds rather than the lack of potential pay that is stopping them.
Most of those faction TWed on a loss anyway, the no refund has just tipped the balance to " it's to expensive and not worth it " point[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Imo for smaller TW factions its the lack of refunds rather than the lack of potential pay that is stopping them.
Most of those faction TWed on a loss anyway, the no refund has just tipped the balance to " it's to expensive and not worth it " point
yeah most small factions did it for the fun of it. but if they don't get to TW and still lose their money.. that just makes it pointless.
I know im crazy, but why not have tokens as rewards for owning territory....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
-Dr. Seuss
b:victory0 -
Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Imo for smaller TW factions its the lack of refunds rather than the lack of potential pay that is stopping them.
Most of those faction TWed on a loss anyway, the no refund has just tipped the balance to " it's to expensive and not worth it " point
This +10
****Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Imo for smaller TW factions its the lack of refunds rather than the lack of potential pay that is stopping them.
Elayne just mentioned your quote in vent...
If what you're saying is true, why are the smaller factions not bidding now when they used to? The smaller factions would almost never get their money back for participating on TW.
Rather it's the fact they may not get to TW and there is no refund, and even if they do win, it's just more cost involved, NOT because the lack of refunds, which has always been a given that they'd never get it back.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Elayne just mentioned your quote in vent...
If what you're saying is true, why are the smaller factions not bidding now when they used to? The smaller factions would almost never get their money back for participating on TW.
Rather it's the fact they may not get to TW and there is no refund, and even if they do win, it's just more cost involved, NOT because the lack of refunds, which has always been a given that they'd never get it back.
Yes and sorry that was my fault for not being totally clear with the wording.
I more ment as you stated and not getting a refund from a failed bid rather than a successful one that Imo is holding them back.
Most small Factions I know dont mind losing money IF they actually get a TW, but atm they might lose money and still not TW and that is stopping then bidding not the lack of the pay.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hmmm I have an idea maybe you guys can tell me if my hypothesis is correct.
HOTK is already in open beta and FW is soon to be in closed beta. With 2 new games coming out more bandwidth is needed but instead of increasing their bandwidth which would have cost more money and since they won't know if these 2 new games are going to turn out winners or losers, rather than spend money on increasing bandwidth they try behaviour modification. Bringing out patches to cut down players' activities will definitely decrease bandwidth consumed, more bandwidth becomes available to be diverted.
Less TWs in PWI = less instances opened = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less drops in TT in PWI = less instances opened = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less DQ and coin drops = less players grinding = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less players active or semi active = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Could this be one of the reasons why they're so adamant that we give them time. Time to divert bandwidth to test out those 2 new games and if they turn out to be losers, divert all resources back into this game.
This is just a hypothesis but it is true that all MMORPGs use behaviour modification in their games.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6J9LLe2Jlg<- One of my best loved piece of trance track0 -
The lessening of pay will slow TW participation i think. But i actually like this. Pay being items instead of outright coins is not a terrible idea.
The new bidding process will completely kill all TW action, i guarentee. This completely sucks. No one wants to risk a bid with so much uncertainty.0 -
(Old thread that was locked) views + (this thread) views = 99490 b:chuckle0
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Fix the refunding, so that smaller factions can go to TW as well and it's fine. HL gold dropped by 30k since you changed the rewards even tho coral packs are still active b:victory0
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Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »For having all this amazing non-cash shopped gear at end-game, who is this stinky person?
A very well-geared level 1 assassin?0 -
Let's get hypotetical
Let's say i found a new faction called "Glee", why Glee? to spread Glee all across the land of course! and let's say i get it to lvl 3 and get a large player group and suddenly, we're around the 80s in terms of level, maybe it's time to TW? well let's see:
-Who am i going to attack? the strongest faction in the server? Yeah right, it's like trying to crumble a skyscrapper riding a handglider, the second strongest faction that is keeping them more or less at bay? same result except that now i ride a handglider and throw rocks, so maybe i'll just attack a smaller faction that has one or two territories so maybe, just maybe i have a small chance
-Ok now bidding on a territory to fight means paying coins yes? coins i know i won't get back now, even if i don't get to actually fight, also the less territories a faction has, the more likely it is someone will outbid me, plus i don't know how much other factions will bid, so it's even more risky, plus i'm only a mid sized faction with mid level players, i don't have the economic power other factions that have gathered a lot of cash from old TW system have, the coins i will spend for bidding are coming out of our pockets and WILL hurt our economy
-Someone outbidded me! that means i lost all the coin i placed in stake to try and get Glee a small piece of land and we don't even get to fight, just what this game needed, another coin sink
-Well, i placed a bid and somehow i won, woo hoo! TW for us! however TW means expenses, our barbs need charms, our clerics too, everyone needs apothecary remedies and hp/mana food that will be abundantly consumed during the fight, that's also going to hurt our pockets
-If we lose, what happens? well we lost the coin, we lost the resources and come out empty handed, not too different from the old system really
-We managed to take over a land! now... what? 150 mirages at 12k each will yield 1.8m coins, divided among at least 60 members that are required to fight a decent war that is 30k to each of them, 30k does not even buy you 1/10 of a bronze charm, and in some cases it's not even enough to pay for repairs
So in a nutshell, every leader of a mid sized faction will decide against going to TW and will instead use those coins to improve the faction or help members who need it, big factions will sit alone unchallenged because no one can afford what it takes to bring them down, also since no mid size factions will attack them, their power is not split among several maps and they have only one big war they have to worry about, how do you fight someone bigger than you? yes you team up, duh! now small factions won't be able to do their bit to help on the fight
So basically these changes ruined the game for non-uber factions, made the powerful even more powerful and took away the motivation to keep improving your char, what's next, removing TW system entirely?Originally Posted by frankieraye: To say that would be a lie, because in regards to the DQ problem, it's something that we're honestly still working on, and something that we believe we can fix.
(8)Don't stop! believing! hold onto that feeling!(8)0 -
LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »Less TWs in PWI = less instances opened = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less drops in TT in PWI = less instances opened = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less DQ and coin drops = less players grinding = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Less players active or semi active = less bandwidth consumed by PWI.
Not likely. Look at their earnings, they make enough money from the servers to keep them up and running. When it comes time, they'll just purchase new servers. The cost is really minimal compared to how much they'll actually gain in revenue.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Not likely. Look at their earnings, they make enough money from the servers to keep them up and running. When it comes time, they'll just purchase new servers. The cost is really minimal compared to how much they'll actually gain in revenue.
Yes servers are cheap but bandwidth has to be purchased from the ISP and I think bandwidth costs way more than servers. What if they're cutting costs to inflate profits due to decreased earnings?
Testing the waters for the 2 new games to see if they're winners or losers before investing in more resources? To do this they have to make use of current resources and that means diverting whatever they have on hand.
This is still a hypothetical discussion. b:thanks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6J9LLe2Jlg<- One of my best loved piece of trance track0 -
LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »Yes servers are cheap but bandwidth has to be purchased from the ISP and I think bandwidth costs way more than servers. What if they're cutting costs to inflate profits due to decreased earnings?
Testing the waters for the 2 new games to see if they're winners or losers before investing in more resources? To do this they have to make use of current resources and that means diverting whatever they have on hand.
This is still a hypothetical discussion. b:thanks
TW costs a lot of money, I'm sure with the new changes they'll lose far more money from charm sales. I expect it to be another week or two before they make more drastic changes. The current system isn't going to last.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Frankie, are you here? I remember you mentioning that TW payment was changed because the previous system was enabling factions conquering majority of land to control gold prices. It has been two weeks and still the price of gold is more than 400k
Hehehe any other good reasons from bright frankie? 0 -
Although it has only been 6 days since this unsavory change in tw, I can't really see PWI (OUR version) recovering like they somehow did in china. I really don't expect for people to stay without a really nice motivation to actually tw with there faction; though, people will adapt, just like what our 'top' faction did, and learn to farm what they need to remain competitive, and if people start doing that, I can see the devs wanting to change that aspect of the game. =x
I do hope I am wrong, hopefully people will stay and fine the will to tw/fight on. =x
To put it another way...
The actual cash from tw, was a real nice incentive to keep people together for a common goal, whereas now, hardly anyone seems to have enough incentive to actually show up and 'get over' their differences and help fight a fight that they rationalized in there head... or at least I think so. =xAh, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
@Daik there's a flaw in your maths. My faction took out scroll, tower and bidding cost before TW pay. So realistically a player can expect between 0.1~2 mirages each on a 30 player signup. b:victory0
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Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Elayne just mentioned your quote in vent...
If what you're saying is true, why are the smaller factions not bidding now when they used to? The smaller factions would almost never get their money back for participating on TW.
Rather it's the fact they may not get to TW and there is no refund, and even if they do win, it's just more cost involved, NOT because the lack of refunds, which has always been a given that they'd never get it back.
As one of the "smaller factions" i feel pretty confident to speak. We were very psyched on finally being pretty close to being able to at least make a real presence in TW.
We bid on ones that were affordable and we at least had a chance at 30min + to try our guys on how things should be done.. Constantly striving towards being able to acquire land and use the fund from that to further the guild and the ability to go after more land.
Now with the changes, almost unamiously every member voted/requested to cease TW. They all felt it was pointless now. Perhaps periodically as a guild event, but as for weekly striving to be better and better @ it the wind is gone from their sails.
Being that even if we do bid on a land we have no sure chance of going, its nothing but a coin sink.
At least with crakpacks we have a CHANCE at something decent. Even if its only a small one. The reward for TW is to rip a big hole in the guild pockets.
No ty. I'd rather give the money to folk in the guild who could use it to better themselves then to throw it into the GM electron pool.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Frankie, the concerns that have been put forward have huge relevance. While we need to give the new system a chance, it's not just the TW system changes that people have a problem with.
TW has been around since... well, near enough since the beginning. While one faction didn't own an entire map, TW pay was still TW pay, and gold price never hit the 400k mark. What inflated the gold price was your sales. Please, Frankie, do not treat us like we are stupid. The constant sale of pack after pack has done far more damage then all TW pay combined, I imagine.
And now, at the time you change TW, you implement another sale to raise gold prices even further. If you're going to try and change a system that wasn't really broken in the first place, do it properly.
Stop with these sales.
Reset the map.
Sale after sale after sale after sale is what has caused these gold prices. All you have done is made TW your scapegoat. And you did a very bad job of that.
+1
The simple truth is that this is indeed a way to solve the problem - but it is a bad solution, since it doesn't remove the problem itself, and actually backfires. Instead of helping the economy it makes it even more dependant on Cash-shopping.
The packs are undisputidly the nr. 1 reason why the economy is so out of hand. What I am really tired about is that the GM's keep refraining from answering the questions that might reveal what the company is trying to do - make us dependent on CS'ing.
- What about all the tons of glitches?
No response
- What about the hugely unpopular new looks in PWI chats?
No changes, not many responses
- What about the comments that the real reason for the inflation is packs?
No response
- What about the DQ thing?
"In time it will come, we promise"
- What about everytime we try to state these things, and all the other great points stated by all the people that care for the game?
No response; or "just give it time" - then no change; or the GM's keep talking around the problem, avoiding it.
I know very well that you GM's can't do anything about what has to be implemented in this game - and I am actually very happy that you do listen to us, and I am sure you care a lot for the game as we do!
I do know that it's the dev's that have no clue what is going on!
What I get annoyed at is your constant avoiding the things that really matter. This update is one of the only ones where you have actually commented a lot on the subject, but you still don't get to the core of it. You keep dancing around the real problem, because adressing it would be the same as having to say:
"No, packs will never leave, because that would make PWE loose a lot of money income, and yes; we will keep removing all ways of getting coins ingame, so you will become more dependent on CS'ing in order to play effectively.".
What I would like you to do is to be completely honest with us for once - honest and direct. Not only mentioning one side of the case, but all of it, and actually tell us why these things are being done. This is actually what I miss the most - the feeling that you guys actually communicate with us instead of acting like politicians who answer only what seems beneficial to continue down the spiral that PWI has gotten itself into.
I know you can do a great job representating us - I trust you can - and I am very sure that you are capable of mentioning ALL the relevant info for the dev's.
Aside from that, I must say that I, too, have tried making some alts simply to try something new. It is really fun leveling from 1-20 again, and trying other toons and skills.
Now is the time when you really realize the value of making a parade in Archo for your guild and friends, of making a race across the maps on mounts only, of helping lowbies with BH's across the map by soloing instants for them, of dueling and making events with your friends.
I personally will not use a single dollar on this game again till I see some changes towards the better. I really don't need to, and I really feel like all these changes makes me want to leave the game - however, with all the money and time put into it, and all the friends I have, I still stay behind.
So, please realize dear GM's, that a huge amount of players will be waiting for the changes you say will come. And please notice the amount of players suddenly active on the forums because of this last patch - especially the new chat and text sizes.
And please, please, PLEASE don't just answer certain parts of this reply, but answer it fully without neglecting the important parts.
Untill changes arrive - I will be waiting, along with many others who have a much more sentimental bond with this game than anything else - and who really hope it will return to something that everyone could participate in, and that really felt fun and awesome to play.PWI will continue - in one way or the other. I'm just glad I found a balanced server now that I enjoy - naming is illegal, but PM's are welcome.
Only reason I log in still is also just to say hi to friends.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3036252001&dateline=1291402639[/SIGPIC]0 -
Mmm...
These topics remind me of what happened to a game I used to play. A fantasy golf simulator called Pangya.
The US version was known as Albatross18 and had been butchered with weird translations, such as renaming the currency, the whole game, some of the characters and pretty much all of the items.
They had an infestation of cheaters, which basically screwed up the economy to a point where the rarest items were only buyable with amounts of currency that went over the hard cap, which pretty much meant that those rares were unaccessible to anyone who didn't already have them, as trading for them was highly risky.
The company didn't do much about it, they just pushed new items to the game. Sale after sale. Then, they finally decided to let the game die. The game was supposed to die, the servers were shut down. However, since it was licensed from the original developer, they took it back and revived it. What they also did was fix the screwed up economy by regular banning of cheaters and deleting all of the currency in the first place. They also went an extra step and gave reports about the amounts of cheaters banned and the respective amounts of currency that was taken out of circulation.
That was a pretty good thing. It kinda saddens me that this version isn't licensed, so any chance of such a salvation is practically none.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
okay what you people are not understanding is that the devs are in china and have ZERO control over our version.... the GMs and the other mysterious employees of PWE have 100% control over anything and everything that is put in the game. The devs only provide the code.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
-Dr. Seuss
b:victory0 -
Aelric - Lost City wrote: »okay what you people are not understanding is that the devs are in china and have ZERO control over our version.... the GMs and the other mysterious employees of PWE have 100% control over anything and everything that is put in the game. The devs only provide the code.
Just about the only thing in this post that's actually true is that the Devs are in china.0 -
Just about the only thing in this post that's actually true is that the Devs are in china.
lmao.... http://www.pwrd.com/html/en/index.html go learn something.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
-Dr. Seuss
b:victory0 -
Aelric - Lost City wrote: »lmao.... http://www.pwrd.com/html/en/index.html go learn something.Perfect World Entertainment Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Perfect World Co. Ltd., was established in the United States in April 2008 to localize and publish our games in North America..
There you have it.
And in case you don't know, "localize" pretty much means "translate". And I don't think I need to tell you that publish != develop.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »There you have it.
And in case you don't know, "localize" pretty much means "translate". And I don't think I need to tell you that publish != develop.
Beat me to it.0 -
Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »And I don't think I need to tell you that publish != develop.
Incorrect. Develop = create and code. Publish = make available to the masses.
They can be done by the same company, often they are not.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Incorrect. Develop = create and code. Publish = make available to the masses.
They can be done by the same company, often they are not.
What he said pretty much agreed with that. != for not the same as/not equal to.0 -
I dunno about anyone else but between the TW changes and the new interface, PWI just isn't fun to play anymore. I've seen a whole lot of changes that people Q-Qed over, but this one definitely takes the cake.
I for one am refraining from playing the game until things change.
So, how many others will put their money where their mouth is and boycott PWI until changes happen? I'm not talking about until users get their way necessarily, but more until the GM's and the Devs ACTUALLY start to listen to player input rather than ignore it in favor of their wallets.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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How do you even type up '≠'?0
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