[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]

Aquilez - Sanctuary

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heh, I have played like seriously over 15 online free to play games and they all end with the same stuff. So yes, I'm now used to it and will not move on to other, I don't really feel necesary starting over on a pay to play game and locking my self to charge $ every single month just to be able to play.

Yes you do save a lot of drama on P2P however, there's a cost for it, and I think it is not cheap enough to give another year of my life to reach the same point I am at now.

i guess that changes from person to person, i started PWI without charge zen, that was in 2008, kinda had decent gear with only merchanting things like sub mats, after i got to lv 90+ people sudently started geting dam good gear, and since i wanted to be able to TW without being 1 hited i had to spend some cash, it will suck leaving friends i made in PWI, but i guess i will need to do that to prevent spending even more cash in a game where devs dont even fix glitches b:sad

on the long run i believe it will be worth spending 20U$ each month than sudently spend 150U$+

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

Aquilez - Sanctuary wrote: »

i guess that changes from person to person, i started PWI without charge zen, that was in 2008, kinda had decent gear with only merchanting things like sub mats, after i got to lv 90+ people sudently started geting dam good gear, and since i wanted to be able to TW without being 1 hited i had to spend some cash, it will suck leaving friends i made in PWI, but i guess i will need to do that to prevent spending even more cash in a game where devs dont even fix glitches b:sad

on the long run i believe it will be worth spending 20U$ each month than sudently spend 150U$+

$20 a month might sound low. The bad thing about it is that if you cannot actually pay it the next month, you will not be able to play your char until you pay it.

Thats the down side of P2P, not to mention you still have the ingame drama and the ... "butt?" people, you will always find this.

Now about F2P, charging is really an option, right now, its been ugly in my wallet since I'm nearly 96 and I've been buying hypers to get to 100 and get rid of all those crazy expenses once and for all, for once I will be able to stop leveling, focus on doing nice nirvana runs to make / afford my gear and not charge gold in a while.

Yes will take a long while, but, this game is not supposed to give things like "charms" which is a WANT not a NEED over night (some say charm in TW is a need when that is false and geez, it would be even more fun if charms were not even allowed in TW, with all those crazy people with 15k+ HP / engame gear / massive stuns ~ ranged attacks / high defenses / + charm they're nearly impossible to kill).

Then start with my alts in a more enjoyfull / nicer way without the worry of having 1k and not being able to pay repairs lol.


A bit off topic:

Scenario:
Lets say charms did not exist and TW still gives the payment they gave.

Would everyone be QQing about the payment being removed even with no charms ingame?

Ofcrz my horse!
They'd be saying its not enough to buy potions!

Was it even intended to actually fund all your potions?
A: No. You have to work for them, you have to farm, you have to kill mobs, you have to buy them from NPC/other players w/e it takes!

Imo:

Charms are evil, makes people lazy, there's more things than charms.

I did not charm my char until I went in FF for the first time.
I know people that even on their alts lvl 20s charm them just because they dont want to look at the hp/mp bar and hit a button when its low.


As I said, charms are a want not a need.


And to those saying about the bidding being way too high:

Do you really think the territory map was intended to be held around 85% - 99.9% by one faction?
Lmao.

If you can't afford TW, don't TW, there's more than that in PWI.

Whenever you can TW, enjoy it, and don't do it for some internetz paycheck that is worth nothing, prolly some dollars due to the power used for your compute... appart of that it is all fake.

You are complaining about a fake currency. Would be like QQing because someone playing monopoly had to pay every single time they rolled a dice and the owner of all the places would not want to sell them.

It is the exact same thing, dont say it's not because you do know it's true.


Now, @ UntamedFurey - Heavens Tear

Saying "no one gets rich with 6 mil a week", probably not some people, those who burn it all in 30 seconds, but if you knew how to spend that money wisely or actually just save it because if you use charms as you all say it doesnt go higher than 3m for 2 gold hp charms you'd be still get 3m free of that.

I'd be happy with a stable income of 3m a week.

That'd save a lot of time. So don't say no one gets rich of TW, that is so not true.

God, 6m is equal to nearly 1/3 what a 99 weapon is worth. You still think its low? Do you know how many hours do you need to grind to be able to get those 6m you get in 3 hours? Guess not.

God with 3-2 payments of those I'd be able to get a LG ring, or some shards for my endgame gear!


People say TW is not for money, then why all the QQ comments are about money?
What is your REAL motivation to TW? Is it the fun of it? or the coins you get from it to bypass the hard work of grinding / farming those 1-6m. Yes grinding and zhening still exist. Anyone use these methods to make money anymore? I really don't think so because 99% of the people here are saying their charm funding comes from TW.

Now about the bids again, as a faction member, do you really care that much, to the point of spending 24 hrs of QQing and all that effort you could of used to grind to help for the next funding. You could have done about 2 million on the time it took every one type their QQ threads, which in the end would be even more money if everyone did the same thing and worked together AS A FACTION to fund the next TW.

But since everyone is so worried about coins coins coins, being "pro" and pointless things, then don't see the other side of the coin.

What a pitty, all those shiny gears leaving the game.

Oh well.

Nahktuul - Archosaur

I just feel bad for Narla. I, with the help of many officers, put a lot of hours and weekly meetings about financing Faction events, both in game and out of game on the faction forums. Not to mention, all of the TW-funded systems that were being put in place to benefit devoted Narlians.

PWE, you shattered the financial structure of almost every single TW faction (who were smart enough to invest their funding back into their faction). They deserve that, they work hard for it.

SATII - Lost City

So... is there really any point in TWing anymore? I mean, for factions not on the map, there's really no point at all to try and get land now except for the tele. It costs way to much and rewards next to nothing now. Oh wait, I forgot that you get a medal for gear that's not even implemented yet. Just like how we got friendship stones for gear that never got implemented and eventually taken out. And how races never had monthly races implemented and then taken out. Pretty soon, this new gear will never get implemented and TW will just get taken out due to "lack of participation."

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Saying "no one gets rich with 6 mil a week", probably not some people, those who burn it all in 30 seconds, but if you knew how to spend that money wisely or actually just save it because if you use charms as you all say it doesnt go higher than 3m for 2 gold hp charms you'd be still get 3m free of that.

Nobody does get rich off 6m a week. 2 gold charms will cover one 3hr war. 2 gold charms is close to 4m right now. Imagine if you had an attack/defend weekend with more than one other guild? That's not even including how much you have to spend for attack and defense charms and PK pots.

I'd be happy with a stable income of 3m a week.

It's not a stable income. You can't predict how much charm usage you get and if you don't go to all the wars you won't get as much coin. You go to war you incur more expenses.

And you don't get 6m a week if you own a few territories, you need to own nearly the whole map to get that kind of payment.

That'd save a lot of time. So don't say no one gets rich of TW, that is so not true.

God, 6m is equal to nearly 1/3 what a 99 weapon is worth. You still think its low? Do you know how many hours do you need to grind to be able to get those 6m you get in 3 hours? Guess not.

God with 3-2 payments of those I'd be able to get a LG ring, or some shards for my endgame gear!

Grind? You're kidding right? You don't make money grinding, you make money merchanting or running HH.

And is LG:Ornament really 24m on your server? It's 60m here. So you'd have to not TW to save that money, but you wouldn't get that money if you didn't TW.

Are you even geared well enough to apply for an actual TW faction? If you were, you'd know that 6m isn't anything.

Sorry, you just don't get it because you don't TW. You think it's just free money when in fact it's far from it.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Finally read all the pages. I have a feeling that the TW pay will be changed. This much QQ has to lead something since TW pay isn't a cashshop item like Anni packs.

Btw Michael I loved watching Essence killing the guards. b:chuckle

Nahktuul - Archosaur

Michael, I think people would take you more seriously if you put headlines in pretty bold colors as landmarks to making your point. People might think your super 1337. IJS.

Tutmozis - Harshlands

So many posts, I read just 1st page...

My Faction have 2 big TW every week, thats 50M+ cost...if we NPC the Mirages what we get, have like 35M...so we in minus...no salary anymore, non CS people unable to buy charm for TW, people lost will to do TW...
We don't hold coins and sit on it, we maked some guild tournaments, gearing up non CS people...we can't do it anymore...

The problem is, the rulers of map will be the Factions with heavy CS members...good for PWI bad for rest...

I don't know will the gold price drop and be better...but this transformation is painful...its possible that the 3 biggest faction on Harshland will boycott TW for a month...at least we don't need to buy charms, we can spend less on this game.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Btw Michael I loved watching Essence killing the guards. b:chuckle

lol that was pretty cool. Killed both of the ones at west and north... the ones at south wouldn't cooperate.

Nahktuul - Archosaur wrote: »

Michael, I think people would take you more seriously if you put headlines in pretty bold colors as landmarks to making your point. People might think your super 1337. IJS.

I'd sooner hang myself

RedsRose - Lost City

Quoting again because it is true...even though I am not 100% against nor for the changes, I agree with the Competitive aspect being lost and the high cost of end-game elite TW's...Well put here!

UntamedFurey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*skips to the end... again*

NOTICE ONE THING WILL YOU AND STOP BEING IGNORANT!

the people who do get it think that the tw ruins tw have never spent and serious time in a seriously powerful tw faction .... the cost to win wars against good opponents stacks up fast .. when you go through several charms and a couple hundred pots in a 3 hr war and the do that the next day and the next ... when you have to drop a pretty sizable bid to get the land best suited for your goals ... cost stacks up fast .... just the chunk of coin used to mail pay to nearly 200 people each week is pretty large in the end ..... good tw gets expensive ... its the most fun but it isnt cheap .... THATS where the majority of tw pay goes.. THE REALLY RICH PEOPLE IN GAME DIDNT GET THAT WAY FROM TW YOUR MORONS ....

if you sit and read this post and disagree you dont have the experience to understand.... the average guild that gets to fight an equal opponent but a few times wont understand this....

alot of small guilds bid each week and go get slaughtered to help their faction grow ... the simple fact that theyre bidding and showing up for war draws recruits ... and they can do it every week bc they get their money back if they get outbid or get some if they do in fact win... now bidding is a money pit. what motivation do the small guild have to get big ? what does getting on the map get them ? maybe more members but a hell of alot more expense.... that stupid rank 9 medal? pffffft takes 4 to get the rank thats 1 person on the whole server per month and 12 a yr .... what a joke...

NO ONE EVER GOT RICH OFF TW PAY .... theres isnt over 100m going into the pockets of each person in a guild with land ..... like i said as an officer in a faction that was making over 500m a week 90-95% of that went to the members and the most anyone got per week was a touch under 6m and some as low as 1m (depending on amount of participation) the rest went to guild expenses to fuel the next war and to bid and to mail pay and the only time the guild itself ever buys gold is when its 350 or lower..... NOONE GETS RICH OFF 6MIL A WEEK .... you have to not spend a single coin for an entire month to get one of the lesser items from the packs .... or to like raise 1 or 2 items to a an ok refine .... (vit stones for example are 20m if you did nothing but got tw pay it would take u a month to get 1 or 1 gem or 3 months to get a lunar weapon) noone gets rich or gets hax gear off under 6m a week .... if even 2 people grasps this concept ill be happy....

THE BIGGEST CONCERN OF MOST REAL TWERS IS THAT NOONE IS GONNA TW AS MUCH AS BEFORE. ** THE STUPID ******N PAY BUT WHATS GONNA MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO BE COMPETATIVE? THEY GET NO SPOILS OF WAR... WE JUST WANT TO FIGHT DAMN IT ! BUT IT BECOMES A MONEY DRAIN WITH NO RECOVERY AND NO GAIN SOME WILL HIT A POINT WHERE THEY CANT DO IT AND OTHERS WILL GIVE UP REGARDLESS.....

all the issue with the economy and too much coin blah blah blah could be lessened with capping gold or removing gold selling for even a month or any of those things if 4-500k gold is such a big issue (i wont fkn buy it) then drop it and cap it problem solved easily and quickly but anything that simple would drop their gold sales and their profit. all the simple solutions that have the best interest of the player in mind reduce their sales.... bare that in mind.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

lol that was pretty cool. Killed both of the ones at west and north... the ones at south wouldn't cooperate.

I was like WTF when the guards started losing HP. Any videos of that in Youtube yet?

When I first logged in on LC I decided to go on my veno. I was near Silver Pool and I was oneshotted by some Essence member right after going outside SZ. I asked if Essence was RPK and they said no. Oh well. b:chuckle

Back on topic: I have a feeling that on CN servers this was a good idea. If the inflation is as bad as I think, mirages are worth somewhere around 100k each. That way those usually aren't NPC'd and don't create coin, just move it around.

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now, @ UntamedFurey - Heavens Tear

Saying "no one gets rich with 6 mil a week", probably not some people, those who burn it all in 30 seconds, but if you knew how to spend that money wisely or actually just save it because if you use charms as you all say it doesnt go higher than 3m for 2 gold hp charms you'd be still get 3m free of that.

I'd be happy with a stable income of 3m a week.

That'd save a lot of time. So don't say no one gets rich of TW, that is so not true.

God, 6m is equal to nearly 1/3 what a 99 weapon is worth. You still think its low? Do you know how many hours do you need to grind to be able to get those 6m you get in 3 hours? Guess not.

God with 3-2 payments of those I'd be able to get a LG ring, or some shards for my endgame gear!


People say TW is not for money, then why all the QQ comments are about money?
What is your REAL motivation to TW? Is it the fun of it? or the coins you get from it to bypass the hard work of grinding / farming those 1-6m. Yes grinding and zhening still exist. Anyone use these methods to make money anymore? I really don't think so because 99% of the people here are saying their charm funding comes from TW.

Since im from same faction as furey, Imma comment on this to make few stuff clear. First off,as it was said, not everyone get 6mil pay ea week. Idk how many but I dont think it's even a majority, since I've been to Enrage since last October/November and my TW pay at most been a bit more than halft of that.

Now for the rest.. Ppl do usually get rotated for TWs, some weeks you may not get rostered at all (means no TW pay), other times you just get to fight small 5-min factions (smaller pay). So you will not get a 6mil pay check in your mail box each and every week. Also if you think that extra 3mil+/week makes you rich then.. Well, I just don't think that's exactly rich since that only cover a very small % of all gear cost you need. Even with an extra 3mil per week it would still take you 16,5 weeks to buy a Lunar ring, so LOL. Idk how 2-3 payments are supposed to cover your lunar rings and shards... Unless you just gonna use em all up to buy packs.

My TW pay ALWAYS went to cover charm costs, which I think was nice and that I agree is a luxury, that way I could use all the money I farmed elsewise to spend on other things that I wanted/needed. If I used my TW pay, I made sure I put the money back to my own "charm fund", because as I said, some weeks you may go w/o any TW pay and in 2 weeks you might need buy a new charm.

LEFTSIDE - Lost City

I have an idea. Let the carebear servers (aka pve servers) get mirages as payment and let the real pvpers (also known as the pvp servers) keep gettin there damn paychecks from each weeks TW. IJS

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

^LOL @ this guy

Since when is TW in a PvE server any differnt from a PvP server?

Nice fail tho.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Here is the UK whenever someone complains about something to the council they multiply the number by 10 for all the people who can't be bothered to write in.

Seeing over 1500 posts in just a day is astounding. Maybe it's time to take action.

LEFTSIDE - Lost City

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^LOL @ this guy

Since when is TW in a PvE server any differnt from a PvP server?

Nice fail tho.

well when i look at the kill ranks i notice that u carebears arent really on them (prob because your spending time grinding or something like that), but back to the point in hand, PVP servers are more serious about TW and thats why every factor in big guilds has +10,11,and 12 weapons. You try doin a TW against a guild that has that kind of fire power. Whole different ballgame bub.

WeaponXpzs - Archosaur

I have quit pwi a while ago, I am waiting for the new server to arrive to start again but i'm having second thoughts after you guys did this...
Simply said there's not a way to make coins nowdays,killed DQ, now killed TW pay what's next? TT drops can't be farmed but only bought through boutique? :P.
How is one supposed to get enough money even for a charm? :P @ Gold prices thing you mentioned... Gold is 400 k because tiger/ anni packs whatever you want to call 'em are here...

Great game, shame you guys are well on the way to ruin it.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

PvE Factions aren't serious about TW? Lol.

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

well when i look at the kill ranks i notice that u carebears arent really on them (prob because your spending time grinding or something like that), but back to the point in hand, PVP servers are more serious about TW and thats why every factor in big guilds has +10,11,and 12 weapons. You try doin a TW against a guild that has that kind of fire power. Whole different ballgame bub.

Ofcourse the kill rankings on a PVP server is higher then a PVE <.< if you're forced to go in PK at lvl 30 or smth you can farm kills more easily then on a PVE server where only the geared ppl go in PK mode.

And if you think there are no +10 +11 +12 geared ppl here, think again.

The illusion of PVP > PVE lol....they are NOTHING alike so you are comparing 2 totally different things.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^LOL @ this guy

Since when is TW in a PvE server any differnt from a PvP server?

Nice fail tho.

I've met RPK'ers with less trolling capacity than him.

Maybe he's from Click?

LEFTSIDE - Lost City

man i wish they would incorporate a server where the pvp servers and pve servers could merge together, like import your character. then you would know what im talkin about

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

man i wish they would incorporate a server where the pvp servers and pve servers could merge together, like import your character. then you would know what im talkin about

I agree that PVP server PK (not TW) is going to be...maybe harder cuz of the charm costs which now can't be covered with "tw pay" .

But in PVE servers we use the same stuff as you do, and that has to be covered too and not with bloody mirages.

Anyhow what you asked earlier about the pvp/pve payment stuff isn't going to happen anyway so /discussion.

LEFTSIDE - Lost City

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And if you think there are no +10 +11 +12 geared ppl here, think again.

The illusion of PVP > PVE lol....they are NOTHING alike so you are comparing 2 totally different things.

lol why bother doing refines that high on a ****ing carebear server. and GG pve compared to pvp is like comparing womens basketball to the NBA.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

well when i look at the kill ranks i notice that u carebears arent really on them (prob because your spending time grinding or something like that), but back to the point in hand, PVP servers are more serious about TW and thats why every factor in big guilds has +10,11,and 12 weapons. You try doin a TW against a guild that has that kind of fire power. Whole different ballgame bub.

TW?

/10char

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

lol why bother doing refines that high on a ****ing carebear server. and GG pve compared to pvp is like comparing womens basketball to the NBA.

Pointless discussion, neither servers are BETTER, they're DIFFERENT but that doesn't mean TW pay has to be diffferent cuz that's probably the only thing that is the same (apart from the players ofc <.< )

LEFTSIDE - Lost City

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

TW?

/10char

yes i mentioned TW somewhere in there, and now its pointless to do it unless u feel like csing charms to burn through for some crappy mirages as a reward for your efforts.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

yes i mentioned TW somewhere in there, and now its pointless to do it unless u feel like csing charms to burn through for some crappy mirages as a reward for your efforts.

It's still gonna be fun. Okay, you get no rewards but the mechanics is still the same....

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's still gonna be fun. Okay, you get no rewards but the mechanics is still the same....

They're kinda broken now tho...*see other 1400 replies*

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They're kinda broken now tho...*see other 1400 replies*

I read through them all while doing WQ b:chuckle

TW isn't broken, the rewards are.

Olba - Sanctuary

LEFTSIDE - Lost City wrote: »

lol why bother doing refines that high on a ****ing carebear server. and GG pve compared to pvp is like comparing womens basketball to the NBA.

... The last time I checked, the only Warsouls on all the servers are on Heaven's Tear and Dreamweaver, both PvE servers.