[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

There was a massive discussion before this went ahead which should of told you that your player base was not "Ok" with this change. Again you ignored them and made the change anyway

I think its about time the player base started acting as one unit and show PWI that while they make the decisions without no players they make no money.


Would it be so hard for all of us for one week to put the game down not chanrge cash not parcipitate in TW show them that we are fed up of not being listend to.

Sorry but this change was a big kick in the niether region for the people who sat there and discussed this before hand... 100 mirages between 80 people GG PWI.

Longknife - Harshlands

4. Rewards for holding territories will no longer be coin-based. Instead, the rewards will be a combination of Mirage Celestones and the chance of being sent the Medal of Glory, an item necessary for attaining Rank IX gear. This Rank IX gear is still in development, and should be available in the near future. One Medal of Glory will be sent to one of the 47 territories at random each week. Rewards are as follows:

Tier 1 Territory: 300 Mirage Celestones + Chance of being sent Medal of Glory
Tier 2 Territory: 200 Mirage Celestones + Chance of being sent Medal of Glory
Tier 3 Territory: 150 Mirage Celestones + Chance of being sent Medal of Glory

Two questions here:

Is that saying that...Let's say a guild has three 3rd Tier territories, and each week they go unattacked. The guild gets 450 mirages per week simply for having the territories or they only get the 150 mirages when they successfully attack/defend a territory?

Second question, what's the minimum bid allowed when bidding on a territory? Hell if I know, but if it were, say...1mil, then this **** would be exploitable. A top guild could simply make a deal with another guild, where the other guild attacks 1k streams or Archosaur. Considering it's fairly common for a top guild to have a good hold on 1k Streams or Archosaur AND it's severely unlikely that another guild would think "JA let's attack the strongest guild's strongest territory first. Suicide is fun," a guild could regularly secure that territory bid. The top guild and the helper guild could then split the mirages (3mil) between the two of them and make a profit.
I assume the minimum bid price is higher than 3mil, but hey I'm just asking. People are always gonna try to exploit systems, and if this is possible then they'll do it.

ThrawnOFive - Dreamweaver

frankieraye wrote: »

It's a valid point, but still, 500M+ coins going into the server every week as TW payouts surely had an effect on the economy, don't you agree?

Except one little minor detail..... Gold prices went up WHEN YOU MADE THOSE DAMN PACKS!

I've been looking at your responses, and it's easy to see all you know how to do is deflect questions and avoid actually answering them.

Shamina - Heavens Tear

Good update.
Funny see how some ppl Cry "They ruined TW"
How its ruined? It makes it much more fun to much more ppl. Now the few big factions can't anymore afford rule half map. This gives small factions change to control areas. Big factions need to pick wise where to attack.

TW just got much more Strategic and compeative. No wonder some "pros" crying, copz it aint that easy anymore to control half map.

Sherae - Lost City

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good update.
Funny see how some ppl Cry "They ruined TW"
How its ruined? It makes it much more fun to much more ppl. Now the few big factions can't anymore afford rule half map. This gives small factions change to control areas. Big factions need to pick wise where to attack.

TW just got much more Strategic and compeative. No wonder some "pros" crying, copz it aint that easy anymore to control half map.

again
i am in a big faction

when lowbies attack us we
1) dont make an organized formation
2) dont wear a charm
3) dont use pk pots

And then we roll them in 5 minutes

if a large faction controls the map they still have just as little chance

It will make no difference in servers that already have dominating factions.
Farming a charm would take me 1 nirvana run.

Most people in "big" factions cash shop...so getting a charm is going to be the same with or without salary...most salary didnt go to tw anyways we did a poll in the faction...

Longknife - Harshlands

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good update.
Funny see how some ppl Cry "They ruined TW"
How its ruined? It makes it much more fun to much more ppl. Now the few big factions can't anymore afford rule half map. This gives small factions change to control areas. Big factions need to pick wise where to attack.

TW just got much more Strategic and compeative. No wonder some "pros" crying, copz it aint that easy anymore to control half map.

I'm sorry but I don't see your logic there.


Let's say there's a guild with weekly income of 20mil that owns half the map and a guild with a weekly income of 4mil that doesn't have a territory.

How does this system help the 4mil guild? Suddenly the guild has to risk ALL of their weekly income just to BID. They might not even get to attack if they get outbid, but they'll still lose their bid money. Even if they win the bid, it's probably unlikely that they'll win against a territory-holding guild, as a territory-holding guild is probably stronger. The big guild on the other hand can always afford to bid 5mil and still have income, and them attacking another territory isn't as risky as it is for the small guild.

All it would do is discourage lowbie guilds from even bidding. Or am I missing something here?

ThrawnOFive - Dreamweaver

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't see your logic there.


Let's say there's a guild with weekly income of 20mil that owns half the map and a guild with a weekly income of 4mil that doesn't have a territory.

How does this system help the 4mil guild? Suddenly the guild has to risk ALL of their weekly income just to BID. They might not even get to attack if they get outbid, but they'll still lose their bid money. Even if they win the bid, it's probably unlikely that they'll win against a territory-holding guild, as a territory-holding guild is probably stronger. The big guild on the other hand can always afford to bid 5mil and still have income, and them attacking another territory isn't as risky as it is for the small guild.

All it would do is discourage lowbie guilds from even bidding. Or am I missing something here?

You didn't miss anything. The only ones able to bid TW are the one or two guilds that own nearly all the map.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good update.
Funny see how some ppl Cry "They ruined TW"
How its ruined? It makes it much more fun to much more ppl. Now the few big factions can't anymore afford rule half map. This gives small factions change to control areas. Big factions need to pick wise where to attack.

TW just got much more Strategic and compeative. No wonder some "pros" crying, copz it aint that easy anymore to control half map.

I dont class my self as pro I do not control half the map but yes I am annoyed at this update. Everyone is gonna have a different opinion on stuff but I dont see how 100 Mirages (1,5m) is going to pay for the bidding of a land which you get no money back if you loose the bid. No money back if you win the war and your faction of people who have put money in to TW.... Come on it does not take a genius to see that 100 mirages between 80 people is not good mathmatics each person is walking out of the TW with 15k in there pockets....

Of course this will change nothing we are like sheep no one wants to actaly stand up for them selves around here and do something about it and if you do your labeld a QQ'r or a "Cryer" having your own opinion here is unheard off you either follow the crowd or you GTFO.

I have personaly lost alot of trust in PWI now and charging gold is no longer going to be lucrative to me. Why charge gold when they can easily change what they like when they like without really even giving us an option.

PWI just died a little for me with the update.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

Well i guess if the certain factions would have stuck with 10 territories insteas of global domination and showing greed this prob wouldnt have happend.Now a nice fresh reset should occur on the lands with this new rule..its only fair.

WrongTarget - Harshlands

In my opinion this update brings 2 things to pwi:

1st one is pretty good since top guilds got cut from infinite money sacks so they cant buy top gear anymore

2nd is that tw will loose all fun because nobody will make tw anymore because it ll not give profit so generally whole tw will be dead.

I think tw system should be changed but this change didnt solve problems just changed 1 problem to another next time i would suggest pwi staff to think little more about solution

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

Reset The Maps Due To New Rules.

WrongTarget - Harshlands

lets remove both packs and tw coins and gold price ll be perfect like in perfect world

Wandera - Heavens Tear

47 Territories to be owned and they pay out

40 Level 3 Territory: 10,000,000 Coins
5 Level 2 Territory: 20,000,000 Coins
2 Level 1 Territory: 30,000,000 Coins

Thats a total of 560,000,000 coins been dumped into the economy of the game per week.


So if TW is a coins sink where does all this so called go? Oh wait cash shops but what do they do with it???

As the GM pointed out some factions own huge amounts of this and only defend a few territories a week while they earn massive amounts form those that are not defended.

When I first read the updates I thought the updates sucked. The greedy short sighted noob in me shouted out wrong wrong wrong. After reading this and doing the maths I have changed my mind. And thinking back to an online game I played many years ago.

Those of you who say you TW pay isn't enough to cover the cost. I can not believe the 3 or 4 factions that hold the map are coughing up over 560 millions coins per week to cover the cost of TW'ing not to mention the additional pay that you get from the factions that attempt to win territory.

I for one will be happy to see the 560 million coin generator disappear. And bring some sort of sense to the game. Instead of rising prices.

All you high level out there who say there is nothing to do but TW move over stop crying and let the game ebb and flow instead of choking it. I will explain this in a bit.

Nice work on the Update instead of maybe say I dunno I take a generous guess around 300-400 maybe less players make the game insufferable for several 10 thousands of players. per server. After all the facebook fan thing got what 96k in fans liking the game.

I think pwi is listen to its players and not the few who seem to hate the change.

Do i know what im talking about? Yeah I do I played a game which was PvE was ranked 2nd on the server and after getting the all the elite equipment possible eventually my out going cost was not even touching my incoming game coins. I along with several other of no more than 50 had a huge huge impact of a game and server that had several thousand members. I would often help newbie and get moaned at because I wasn't killing them on sight. When ask why I wasn't killing the new weak gamer and costing him his hard earned game currency in repairs. I said I was bored and wanted some new people to challange me and if I spent my time killing every single new player I saw and using my huge wealth to stop others from getting equipment eventually there would be no new comers. And alot of players would quit because they where never give a chance to grow and get better equipment. So instead I changed games. But not before helping the side I was on to gain an over whelming statistical lead over the other sides so much so most of the player moved to the lowest side for a new challange.

PWI is doing the right thing they are removing one the biggest source of coin generator that is in there control and opening the game up to 1000's of players who would otherwise quit and go play on another game. The needs of the few do not out weigh the needs of the many..

If you do not like the change and offends you. Have some dignity and grace and walk away hold you head up high and say I you know what this isn't for me any more. Unless you have valid and reasonable objection to this change. After looking at it from all angles. Do not lower yourself to petty comment about how bitter you feel and complain on here you have already stated that your moans and petty comments never get noticed. I don't know but try something like this..

Instead of coins as payment to the faction Have the coins given as tw shop credits and have a shop that sells all kinds of stuff you can use. Not equipment but perishable stuff like pots, shards, apothercary stuff. hp and mana charms. However this stuff cannot be transfered outside the faction or sold for coins. That you get your pay and can spend it on stuff you might do but these perishable items do not leave the faction nor can they be sold. And if you leave the faction what supply you becomes locked to you until they run out. Unless you join another faction that has tw shop credit then you can give them away too other faction members or trade them for another tw shop items. But no game coins allowed.



As soon many of you have pointed out you have to earn extra to cover the cost of TW this idea would mean you would only have to cover the cost of equipment TW credit would cover the perishables use up in a TW

ANY GOOD TW'er Worth his salt would love new challenges and look forward to them. And not cry like a baby and go off with the hump and sulk.

Cash shopper who sell stuff in cat shops. There will always be a supply and demand

560 million coins from pay out form the 47 territories has to accumulate somewhere when only a few control it. The out going cost does not exceed the incoming income. Once you have the best equipment upgrade your skills and have nothing else to spend it on. Hence the price of certain supply and demand item go up and the cost of gold too.

Some how I do not see the 3 or 4 factions spending 560 million on TW a week.. Well not on heavens tears any way.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Will you people grow the F up.... Stop calling each other cry babies and start addressing the issue. Just because your opinions do not match does not make the other out to be crying. Seriously work on your debating skills because with that attitude your going to get mown down in the real world.

Simple fix to that 1 guild can own two lvl 3's 1 lvl 2 and a lvl 1 land... thats it.

zaaphiel

I love this thread and this new update Well done PWI, i love the Dummy spitters QQing in WC

RainKilganon - Lost City

Just two things i gotta contribute, even though im sure its already been said.

Say bye bye to your biggest spenders, and i wonder how that 93k fans on fb is gonna look after this.

ReiketsuXI - Dreamweaver

frankieraye wrote: »

If larger factions decide not to use charms or even participate, doesn't it actually make it more likely for smaller factions to bid on their land?

LMAO ok that doesn't change the fact that they still can be a one shot, i don't think you see what a lot of people were getting at all..... Mirages is just one of the most stupidest thing of could of made for TW pay. And on the whole larger factions not using charms LOL wouldnt that mean the smaller factions not have them either? and not wont change the fact that the low lvl factions will be one shotted by an archer or wizard. What this shows is that the people who come up with these "changes for the better" are a bunch of ******* who have no brains at all. I mean ill i'm seeing being done is one the of best MMOs out there being destroyed and ripped to shreds. Well it was fun while it lasted, wouldn't be surprised if everyone starts to quit after a little bit of this update and i guess all good things must come to an end sometime.....

Noc - Harshlands

There's good and bad things about this update. Of course PWI is trying to use the good things to cover up the real reason the changes were made and that's there greed.

Also rank 9 is pretty useless for a majority of the classes in this game, Nirvanna weapons and gear are more viable for most. There's really only 2 classes that use rank 9 and that's archers and wizards. I think crystals would be a more proper award and mirages should just be removed, April fools has already passed.

Shamina - Heavens Tear

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't see your logic there.


Let's say there's a guild with weekly income of 20mil that owns half the map and a guild with a weekly income of 4mil that doesn't have a territory.

How does this system help the 4mil guild? Suddenly the guild has to risk ALL of their weekly income just to BID. They might not even get to attack if they get outbid, but they'll still lose their bid money. Even if they win the bid, it's probably unlikely that they'll win against a territory-holding guild, as a territory-holding guild is probably stronger. The big guild on the other hand can always afford to bid 5mil and still have income, and them attacking another territory isn't as risky as it is for the small guild.

All it would do is discourage lowbie guilds from even bidding. Or am I missing something here?

Yes u are missing something. Since the reward from the territory is only fame. Big factions will lose their grip from ppl and come weaker, giving opportunity to other factions to control areas. Atm big factions are full of ppl who only care of coins. Are they willing to use coins for getting nothing and using their time for it?
Reading this thread give answer, no, they already crying they quit. So big factions will come weaker.

So yes, u missed a point.

Minimus - Sanctuary

It is frustrating to see that being in a faction that brought TW back on Sanctuary the rewards and the bidding are changed this way. Other factions on other servers had to take tediously land by land in the last few month and it is incorrect that"large powerful guilds have been sitting on their property and collecting a fat paycheck every week without doing anything "- and to change the system based upon this.

You think the land that was conquered was easy to take or taking land should be rewarded with mirages? Why not Rhino Horns then? This isn't an appropriate incentive to spend time, cash and effort for now almost 2 years to see TW rules changed.

If a TW faction is missing its bids then you as TW faction also have a problem.

You put your hands on something with the maybe right intentions but not the right methods. To read the sentence above by Kantorek is more than dissappointing since there are enough factions who just became stronger by their work/effort in the last few month and aren't sitting on their property and collecting paychecks but never could cover their charmcosts by any TW payment!

Maybe stay more in contact with players to hear what they think before you implement new rules that are as sensitive as this one.

RaininFire - Sanctuary

frankieraye wrote: »

It's a valid point, but still, 500M+ coins going into the server every week as TW payouts surely had an effect on the economy, don't you agree?

NO I don't agree as the way understood the system to work was that 500M+ coins was originally put into the TW system from in game coin in the 1st place, TW just moved around who owned it. Packs on the other hand introduce new coins in exchange for players real life cash.
I wasn't interested in TW before and I most definitely wouldn't be now.

The reason I wanted to post however is because from what I read this new system has nothing to do with trying to combat the economy problems and instead is to try to fix the way TW has become a domination game for factions who already have the wealth and gears and make it more about a fun PVP event that is open to a wider range of payers.

Does the reward suck?.......... yes
but seriously guys do any of you out there play this game just to have fun or not because from what I see around the forum and in game chat is that most of you just like to find a reason to complain about everything. Maybe I'm wrong but hasn't most of the forum QQ been about those said factions that do abuse their wealth to dominate TW and make it impossible for most others to join in.

Belandre - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

Considering that multiple TW related threads went up within minutes of the Content Update post being published, I'd say there's a lot to discuss.

Rather think the discussion would have been better before such a crass change, Seriously what a super way to ruin the main reason people still gear up . Im sure time will tell whether this change brings you in $$$$ or sees the death of the game b:angry

Longknife - Harshlands

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes u are missing something. Since the reward from the territory is only fame. Big factions will lose their grip from ppl and come weaker, giving opportunity to other factions to control areas. Atm big factions are full of ppl who only care of coins. Are they willing to use coins for getting nothing and using their time for it?
Reading this thread give answer, no, they already crying they quit. So big factions will come weaker.

So yes, u missed a point.

But if you own half the map, that means YOU don't bid. That means others have to pay to attack YOU. You continue to get money if you can successfully defend. The guild that own territory are probably the strongest, and thus they probably CAN defend.

All this means is that there's less TW. People will only attack if they're sure they can win. Big guild members won't leave their big guild. That makes no sense. Leaving a territory-owning guild and joining a small-fry guild won't increase their profits whatsoever; it'll reduce them even more. The fact is the GAME has reduced the profits and there's nothing anyone can do about it. They have NOT exclusively reduced profits for big guilds though, so there's still no reason to leave a big TW faction that owns territory; quite the opposite, as those are probably the only guilds that have any potential to still make a profit from this new system: just don't attack and wait for others to attack you and you can still profit.

Shamina - Heavens Tear

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

But if you own half the map, that means YOU don't bid. That means others have to pay to attack YOU. You continue to get money if you can successfully defend. The guild that own territory are probably the strongest, and thus they probably CAN defend.

All this means is that there's less TW. People will only attack if they're sure they can win. Big guild members won't leave their big guild. That makes no sense. Leaving a territory-owning guild and joining a small-fry guild won't increase their profits whatsoever; it'll reduce them even more. The fact is the GAME has reduced the profits and there's nothing anyone can do about it. They have NOT exclusively reduced profits for big guilds though, so there's still no reason to leave a big TW faction that owns territory; quite the opposite, as those are probably the only guilds that have any potential to still make a profit from this new system: just don't attack and wait for others to attack you and you can still profit.

Well imho you are wrong. Many ppl I personaly know are in TW faction just coz of the coins they get. If u get 30 mirages a week from being in pro TW faction (and also u need to pay a lot if u lose a territory), they will rather return to their old factions.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

It's a valid point, but still, 500M+ coins going into the server every week as TW payouts surely had an effect on the economy, don't you agree?

No. Do you not pay attention to Perfect Token of Best Luck red-spam? That must introduce 1-2 BILLION coins per week. TW pay is largely divided between many players. 10M big notes aren't.

In a couple of hours, you can see as many as 20-30 of these. Certainly I've often seen that many in just one hour. Multiply that by 154, that's far more coin being introduced than TW pay ever could.

Take off the blinders. I honestly don't believe that you believe what you're saying.

Sherae - Lost City

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well imho you are wrong. Many ppl I personaly know are in TW faction just coz of the coins they get. If u get 30 mirages a week from being in pro TW faction (and also u need to pay a lot if u lose a territory), they will rather return to their old factions.

another main reason people join large factions is because they can farm easier and get instances done

i dont think people will go back to factions that struggle to do such things
especially with mass pvp still being an option (on some servers)

Longknife - Harshlands

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well imho you are wrong. Many ppl I personaly know are in TW faction just coz of the coins they get. If u get 30 mirages a week from being in pro TW faction (and also u need to pay a lot if u lose a territory), they will rather return to their old factions.

You say they're in it for coin.

I'm saying coin has been reduced for everyone BUT the top guilds STILL have the best coin opportunities. If a guild owns half the map and 10 of their territories get attacked and successfully defended, then they still earn decent money. It's only offensive wars that have lost any and all profit; fighting a defensive war is still profitable, which means owning territory is still profitable.


So yeah, I dunno what you're trying to argue. You agree with me that it's about coin, but then seem to ignore that the top guilds with territory are the only ones who can theoretically earn coin.

paypaal

people sitting on mass of coins by cashshopping is fine

people sitting on mass of coins by doing tw isnt fine


kk... so no balance issue, its a money issue
thats hypocrisy



why should european or asian people stand up in the middle of the night or on early morning to do TW for mirrages ?

this will make the game a american and no international server


for me is TW 3 am, no intention to do it anymore ^^

Sherae - Lost City

paypaal wrote: »

people sitting on mass of coins by cashshopping is fine

people sitting on mass of coins by doing tw isnt fine


kk... so no balance issue, its a money issue
thats hypocrisy



why should european or asian people stand up in the middle of the night or on early morning to do TW for mirrages ?

this will make the game a american and no international server


for me is TW 3 am, no intention to do it anymore ^^

wow your right this sucks for anyone non american.... wooow

Oneji - Heavens Tear

Just face it, PW is a business.With gold prices that low before(80k-120k), would it not be the obvious solution to just grind and buy that gold? Of course PW is smart to and found a way to inflate the gold prices buy using packs as the main line of defense and chest of coins as their ultimate back up defense.So the lower levels could no longer just grind and buy gold so easily. Instead PW discouraged them so they would buy coins with real money. And there you go PW in a way solved their problemb:thanks.


But of course they would not tell you that in wordsb:laugh.