[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]

Wandera - Heavens Tear

paypaal wrote: »

people sitting on mass of coins by cashshopping is fine^^

Yes its fine you either bought the stuff collected, farmed it, You had to do something had to take some sort of action to gain the items to sell and get money. You had to spend time on the game doing something to get the items to sell for money.

paypaal wrote: »

people sitting on mass of coins by doing tw isnt fine^^

If you own 40 of the 47 territories and only defend 4 of them. The other 36 earn you money for doing absolutely nothing after they came into you possession. You did not have to take any action to get the coins. Did not even have to click a single icon or anything to get that money from 36 territories that would have given you a minimum of 360,000,000 coins. Yes you may have had to fight hard to get them. And after the battle got rewarded for it. But after that why should you continue to reap just huge reward for do absolutely nothing. You did even have to press you mouse once to earn the reward. Where how is that fair? It would be fairer that the TW you did fight in gave a reward but those that required nothing should give no reward.

You just want free money for doing nothing.

paypaal wrote: »

kk... so no balance issue, its a money issue
thats hypocrisy



why should european or asian people stand up in the middle of the night or on early morning to do TW for mirrages ?

this will make the game a american and no international server


for me is TW 3 am, no intention to do it anymore ^^

mikazumi

I'm gonna have to agree. I live in Australia and for me it is difficult to get to a TW every week. I think it's really just **** to make the rewards mirages. How are we supposed to split that between a faction? If you had a full 80 members participate and get 150 Mirages, that's 1.875 per player.

As far as I know, level 100s get plenty of Mirages for their BHs, and my faction (from my knowledge) just can't get rid of them...it's ridiculous. That can't even cover the cost of what me and many others spend for TW...but not like it could before, either. No refunds is a bit stupid as well. However I can't really complain much since I don't have time to TW nor am I an officer or leader of a faction. But I still feel all your pain.

As many have said, the GMs need to be more in contact with us players, and see what the issues are and how we think things can be solved. Perhaps a survey or something that we can take, instead of assuming what we want, or putting China's content here without thinking we're different from China and might have different opinions.

cybrpope

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well imho you are wrong. Many ppl I personaly know are in TW faction just coz of the coins they get. If u get 30 mirages a week from being in pro TW faction (and also u need to pay a lot if u lose a territory), they will rather return to their old factions.

See theres the issue TW is to have fun not for players to farm coins.This coin farming has ruined the ecnomy.So GM's not all of us are upset over this ,only those who use TW to "Farm Coins" are. Why else would you be upset over this change?
As for the complaining on repair bills and such thats simple,change it so as you enter TW you get no equiptment damage.There problem solved. As for the complaining over stuff like charms and such.Oh well go make your own or dont use bought ones ,it's your option .
Thank you have a nice day.

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

If only the Devs/GMs or whoever is in charge of making these decisions actually played the game and know about it, they would've realised it's BS beyond anything.

it's ****** SAD if you don't even know your own game and how to play decent while making nice updates which i haven't seen for the last 1.5 years.

You censor games like A1on and all (yea Chinese ftw, as long as it LOOKS good, doesn't have to WORK good right? ), but with this you are lterally pushing your player's base to other games (cough star craft 2 or in case it's censored St4r Cr4ft 2 )

And i know whatever is being said in these 80+ pages isn't even going to be read by any of the staff lol let alone being reported to China.

What would be next....TW changed back to coins one week later and then the weeks after "Due to popular demand you get mirages again" lol?

Anyhow cough

Deora - Lost City

DemonFox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*Looks for PWE stocks to see how far they go down over the next 24 hours*

I know that is from like 50 pages ago but...

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:PWRD

I think that big **** dip speaks for itself...

Zyplor - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

Hey guys,


Use this thread to share your thoughts on the recent TW changes.

Please keep it civil so we can get a good discussion going.


Thanks!

*Update*

Greetings,

Thank you for all your feedback. We understand that this is a drastic change to the Territory War system. However we believe that in time, things will shape up in PWI for the better. Something I'd like to mention since nobody has yet brought it up: There is one constant complaint that the economy is becoming inflated with coins. So much in fact that you can't purchase 1 Gold without paying 400-500K worth of coins. A big reason for this is that large powerful guilds have been sitting on their property and collecting a fat paycheck every week without doing anything. Since they are the ones that can afford the high priced Gold, the Gold being sold at 400K is still being bought, and prices remained.

With this source of income gone, we hope to see the economy in PWI come back "down to earth" if you will.

That's not to say that we don't have any power to change this system, or that this system is not going to be tweaked with. Over the next couple of weeks we will be monitoring TW activities, as well as the economy to see what kind of affect this change has in these two areas.

Thanks again for your passionate responses. It truly shows the love you players have for PWI.

-Kantorek

what about if u remove packs? gold price will go down like b4 packs came outb:bye

Roxxannae - Sanctuary

Hell, I barely have been around that long but the packs have made the economy go haywire in this game. I'm used to games stuffing up the economy though >_>;

MrHanky - Harshlands

cybrpope wrote: »

See theres the issue TW is to have fun not for players to farm coins.This coin farming has ruined the ecnomy.So GM's not all of us are upset over this ,only those who use TW to "Farm Coins" are. Why else would you be upset over this change?Thank you have a nice day.

You obviously don't tw and realize the cost each person has going into tw.
You must be charmed.If your not your asking to get beat.
Apothecary pots and health or mana pots also.

Then don't forget your repair bill afterwardsb:cry and i am a wizard i would hate to see cata
Each week i usually lose money going to TW but with tw pay it was not that much.
Now im gonna be losing about 2mil coins a week.
This is going to stop a lot of people from playing.

MysticRaine - Sanctuary

Good_morning - Sanctuary wrote: »

In a nutshell, correct me if I`m wrong.

PWI theory:
Factions get too much money from TW -> players get too much money from TWing -> Gold prices are rising spectacularly.
Solution: Nerf TW pay so TW players will have less money to spend, plus they cant afford charms anymore, so they won`t buy gold, so the gold prices will go back down.

My theory:
Packs were introduced -> Players became greedy -> Gold prices went from +/- 200k to 400k iirc.
Solution: Remove packs altogether.

Supportive evidence: http://i35.tinypic.com/9h2t0l.jpg

What you`re seeing is a piece of the Nefarious paysheet from when they still owned about 95% or the map. As you can see Nefarious got a grand total of 500mil per week and after distributing that fairly, most players got about 3,2mil that week. That about covered 2 platinum charms, which you needed, and then I haven`t even mentioned all of the potions one would use. So even then, being a player in the top paying faction, didn`t earn you a whole lot of money.

PS: Yes I am a coward posting from a low level alt trying to stay anonymous. Sue me.

lol don't blame you i knew id get flamed which lucky only one person did... PPL say ohh the leader gets the money... yes they do but since here i have seen the money go to to help with charms... my last faction it didn't but we was ok with it but we only had one fast tw and yes we did it for fun... here its tw after tw

allot assume that the ppl with the land just roll in the money and we don't I use to think the same thing but I was wrong....we fight to get our gear coin which we have to keep upping and going to keep up with other higher rising factions... for cloths and what ever we need like everyone else we still have to grind live in Ty but anymore that don't cut it... you look allot of the grinding comes from dq well they cut what you get for them... everyone would like to see gold prices go down but you look at the AH after this patch i guaranty you will see it jumped in price... hello new packs came out... the day new cloths cane out it jumped you want to fix the gold price cap it... stop doing the packs theres allot better ways to do this.... I for one am done putting real life money in!

i have said in allot of other post my feeling for the lower lvl faction... all you have done is make it harder for them to bid... yes they can start a 100k but you know they will be over bid... now they don't get to have any fun twing!

there really has to be a better way to fix things then this idea its the greed of the real life cash stuff thats the problem not the tw system!

cybrpope

cybrpope wrote: »

See theres the issue TW is to have fun not for players to farm coins.This coin farming has ruined the ecnomy.So GM's not all of us are upset over this ,only those who use TW to "Farm Coins" are. Why else would you be upset over this change?
As for the complaining on repair bills and such thats simple,change it so as you enter TW you get no equiptment damage.There problem solved. As for the complaining over stuff like charms and such.Oh well go make your own or dont use bought ones ,it's your option .
Thank you have a nice day.

updated sorry

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

cybrpope wrote: »

updated sorry

"Go make your own"

mhm...poor barbs who burn 1-1.5 plat charms / week

People want to enjoy this game rahter then being forced each week to farm for TW costs.

Woops so much for that theory

Wandera - Heavens Tear

Deora - Lost City wrote: »

I know that is from like 50 pages ago but...

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:PWRD

I think that big **** dip speaks for itself...

Wow you really think that little dip was the result of the announcement so what announcement caused the huge rise 24 hours from the 4th to the 4th prior the TW announcement?


Just curious on if know the answer.

Interesting that they make a huge change just as a huge gaming company is going to invest into this Perfect World band. Some how I do not think the tantrumming gamers causes the dip but rather the stock market responding to the announcement of a huge gaming company getting a piece of the Perfect World pie.

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary

I died at page 54.

Most of PWE's changes to the game don't affect me much, since I don't heavily CS, I don't TW, and I'm usually there just for friends, the community, PvE content and just exploring in general. But I can imagine that in future, I would want to go into PvP.

What is particularly disturbing to me is not the fact that PWE wants to make money. It is the fact that PWE is blatantly exploiting players with no discipline.

I don't remember all their changes, but these are a few I can think of, offhand that have debatable consequences.

Bounty Hunt - I personally like this. I've been feeding genies EXP for months, so I get to level my skills up to my level and I can have a shot at making decent genies. It's been a year since I've started playing the game, and I haven't felt any rush to level. I've always thought it was a good tool...until lazy players came along and started doing nothing but BH. And it's difficult to convince them to take the slow but rewarding path despite the obvious problem of fast leveling. Most skills are outdated, they run out of money, they have backdated gears and they wonder why instances are suddenly five-folds harder. Then they re-roll, repeat the cycle...and still don't get any better. This is an obvious case where the player is the problem and not the tool, but the tool exacerbated the situation.

Jones Blessing - I don't use it. For grinding, it's a god sent tool. For PvP? I have not done TW, but from reading the forums, this tool sounds like a cheap way to "gain power" and one-shot people. I don't like that. It makes completely no sense. For 'becoming a fan' of PWI you gain that monstrous power? If anything, it only encourages people to become 'addicted to power.' So far, I've seen people so amazed at their new power that they'd rather aggro and die just to marvel at what they can do with the Blessings.

Packs - I like it, if only because it cheapens HP/MP Food and shards considerably...and -interval/end game gears become available. It's fun to buy a couple of packs for some gambling when you get your pay at month end for some gratification of scoring some big thing. But the in game effects...I think the rest can tell the story better than I ever could.

This is the negative view point:

Want to level quickly? Use Hyper EXP stones, dailies and BH.
Want to get power? Buy packs and hope to score.
Want to get even more power for no apparent reason? Become a fan.

This is the positive view point:

Want to level all your skills? Feed your genie and do BH daily.
Want to have fun gambling? Buy packs and use the tokens for whatever you need them for.
Want to grind faster? Become a fan.

So far, there's been a lot of argument that it's up to the players to either take it positively or negatively.

But this newest argument that TW is the reason for inflation? That's such a blatant lie. And this blatantness is what disturbs me.

It can't be denied that PWE is not directly responsible for players who choose to pay to win. But can PWE deny this? That they're exploiting players?

I mean, who are you kidding saying that you're trying to push the gold prices down when you suddenly put up that True Gem Socket Pack and Dragon's Fire Pack? I don't think PWE is dumb enough to believe it'd suddenly shoot Gold prices down instead of up?

The impact? A whole entire community reeking of greed.

And I don't think we play a game to be reminded of the same disgusting things that happen in the real world.

Edit Accidentally hit the publish button before I was done.

Longknife - Harshlands

It's as simple as this:

F2P MMO's are a tricky thing. Many of them make cash shop their priority and forget about the responsibilities in-game that need taking care of.

I'm not like most people. Most people will call PWI "greedy" and completely cash-shop focused, whereas I do not. Every F2P MMO I know has regular sales and advertisements for those sales. Every MMO I know has an item (such as packs) that really rake in the dough. The difference between other MMOs and PWI is that usually that big-money item is ESSENTIAL; we're lucky that packs are not. They may be nice and useful, but they're not essential. In that sense, PWI has it better off.
Other MMOs may also neglect to have regular updates. This isn't the case with PWI. This summer alone we've had the nien beast event, the tournament, the new tiger event and the other new thing. PWI does provide new content fairly regularly. Whether you like these events or not, you have to give them credit that the devs are producing SOMETHING regularly.


So if PWI is good in those two aspects, what's the problem?

The problem is they've got their priorities out of order. Everyone plays a game to have FUN. Fun should be the number one priority. However, for whatever reason they've put PWI's main source of fun behind another priority: a balanced economy.

Unfortunately the way they've balanced the economy requires people to put in extra work (farming for TW) to have fun. (TW) What's worse is the system allows for the possibility that you could farm, bid your farmed money and simply LOSE your money with nothing to show for it. If this continues then people will get bored of farming and decide it's not worth it. With no TW, there's no fun, and then there's no reason to play this game.

Other than that, I believe there's a reason auctions function the way they do with only the winning bidder having to pay: cause no one in their right mind would go to an auction where they have to pay for the desired item even if they lose.



Based on those two points alone, I think it'd be a good idea to reverse a couple of the new TW features.

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

So if PWI is good in those two aspects, what's the problem?

The problem is they've got their priorities out of order. Everyone plays a game to have FUN. Fun should be the number one priority. However, for whatever reason they've put PWI's main source of fun behind another priority: a balanced economy.

Unfortunately the way they've balanced the economy requires people to put in extra work (farming for TW) to have fun. (TW) What's worse is the system allows for the possibility that you could farm, bid your farmed money and simply LOSE your money with nothing to show for it. If this continues then people will get bored of farming and decide it's not worth it. With no TW, there's no fun, and then there's no reason to play this game.

Agreed.

The recent changes have changed the focus of the game completely...and it's definitely not fun.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is particularly disturbing to me is not the fact that PWE wants to make money. It is the fact that PWE is blatantly exploiting players with no discipline.

But this newest argument that TW is the reason for inflation? That's such a blatant lie. And this blatantness is what disturbs me.

Two excellent points. I just wanted to single them out and agree wholeheartedly.

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

They need to get used to these threads now

drjiggle

frankieraye wrote: »

These changes could very well lower the amount of coins necessary to win a bid, hopefully even to a level where smaller guilds would feel comfortable risking its loss.

Time will tell, but one of the changes mentioned in the Chinese version of this announcement was that the minimum TW bid was raised from 500k to 1M for level 3 territories and similarly for the larger ones. Was this only done on the Chinese servers and not on ours? Is this another change being quietly snuck by us until someone notices? At this point we don't know, but I think it's a concern.

Side question: If it's unique to the Chinese servers, why is it possible to do that part differently but evidently not possible to do anything else like DQ pricing or decomposition differently?

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I stay for my friends and because the F2P MMO market pretty much blows. This update is pretty much taking one of the very few enjoyable things from the game and removing it.

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.

The_owner - Lost City wrote: »

I don't mind. Mirage payout? fair enough. At least now other factions are able to get in on the fun, and not just the rich and strong ones. Since not alot of people will be willing to go to war now with mirage payout, some factions now have a chance to actually compete!

As for charms... They ruin the PvP system entirely. Your opponent (or yourself) gets an Extra Hp Bar (or several if you let enough time pass between ticks)


Look at the bright side! b:victory

They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!

MysticRaine - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL the checks arnt that big... but they help*replace some of the cost not all* Of the charms used... and when your required to use a charm what do you do... and b4 you say ohh your in it for the pay... get to know the person first b4 judging them

Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

frankieraye wrote: »

It's a valid point, but still, 500M+ coins going into the server every week as TW payouts surely had an effect on the economy, don't you agree?

500M coins = 100 Best Luck Tokens

Per hour it's 100 / 24h = 4,1(6)

Watching Duke shouts, I'm fairly sure more than 4 Best Luck Tokens drop from packs every hour (checked at EU timezone, I can imagine more drops when US players are active).

Conclusion? Your beloved packs create more coins in 1 day than old TW system created in a week.


The only way it might affect Gold price is:
TW not worth doing anymore -> TW getting less competitive -> players getting less competitve -> players opening less packs (since they don't need that OP gear from them anymore)

Asperitas - Lost City

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.



They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!



Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

Foxgrit - Lost City

All I have to say is too bad so sad. Will stop the nutriders from guild hopping to wherever they can get the most pay.

For all the whiners complaining that the only thing they did was log in to TW and now they cant afford it...TOO BAD. Go farm some money or spend real money. If you are just a leech on the system then your opinions are irrelevant anyway. Spend money or GTFO.

angellicdeity

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

500M coins = 100 Best Luck Tokens

Per hour it's 100 / 24h = 4,1(6)

Watching Duke shouts, I'm fairly sure more than 4 Best Luck Tokens drop from packs every hour (checked at EU timezone, I can imagine more drops when US players are active).

Conclusion? Your beloved packs create more coins in 1 day than old TW system created in a week.


The only way it might affect Gold price is:
TW not worth doing anymore -> TW getting less competitive -> players getting less competitve -> players opening less packs (since they don't need that OP gear from them anymore)

You forget the ending to that:


Less money spent buying packs.


Equals:


Less revenue for PWI


Equals:


Declining profits


Equals:


Dead Game.



Plus



Drop in investment in PWI, should PWI report real earnings quarterly.

Quilue - Sanctuary

For a lot of you in the high levels, if you can't afford charms at this level, with TT, Nirvana, Nien, CoA, etc etc, forget charms. Your gear is probably so shoddy that you get 1 shot by everyone with Jone's Blessing anyway.

How do the weaker factions with no land come to TW every weekend? Do they get paychecks? People need to get some perspective.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

Your argument is completely flawed.

You dont have to spend millions. All you have to do is buy a $4 charm. You want your "fun" to come free you dont want to have to pay for it. If TW is so much fun for you either put in a little effort or pay for your fun. You think that you should have your "fun" and then get paid for it as well. Typically you have to pay to have fun they dont pay you to have fun.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

angellicdeity wrote: »

Dead Game.

That would be true if not for the fact that pwi had existed for a year without packs already, aswell as several other versions that have existed for even longer without them.

Siiobhan - Archosaur

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.



They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!



Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

The part you seem to be missing is that smaller factions with one or two lands will not get enough coin to even be able to afford to defend those lands. It costs 1.4 Million to build towers alone. The Big Factions full of cash shoppers truly gain the upper hand since they can afford to auction some gold and buy what they need. As the Leader of Fatalis (which has the third most land on our server at 7 lands) I talk every day almost with Leaders of the smaller TW guilds that we fight against. In our case we will still be getting just enough from this to operate our TW campaigns, but the smaller guilds than us (ones that own one or two land and try as hard as they can) are getting SHAFTED. Under the old system they could probably build the towers and maybe get some charms for their cata barbs. Now they can build one round of towers and four catapult scrolls with they get and then if they want to attack also, they have to dig in the pockets of the members. This will drive the members away and to bigger factions. Add to that the non-return on bids and no small faction can afford to compete in any way.

BTW price of gold on Arch server already going UP. It's not the game that dictates the price of gold, it's what the cash shop players are willing to sell it for. Without TW pay, they will need to get more income somehow and will likely resort to overpricing gold even more IMO.

drjiggle

After reading most (but not all) of this thread, I guess I want to elaborate on one of my earlier comments. I said that I think the changes to the reward system are awful. I do, but perhaps not for the "obvious" reasons.

I don't think it will blow up the economy. IMHO (we'll see), the effects that this will have on the economy are being vastly overstated.

Any land-holding faction introduces more mirage celestones into the economy simply by doing their level 100 BH's (not to mention Cube of Fate, TT, decomposing 3*'s, etc.) each week. Each land you hold represents less than 1 mirage stone per member of your faction (on average -- it varies a bit if your faction is small or you hold level 1 or 2 lands). Mirage stone prices are going to crash. They already have. But it won't be because of TW. It's because of BH's and the ever-increasing number of level 100's.

Similarly, taking the 10M coins out of the economy doesn't matter that much either. Again, consider it against all the other sources of large amounts of coins. You have Ecstasy Cards from level 100 BH's, Ecstasy Cards from the Cube of Fate, Ecstasy and Excitement Cards from the Nien Beast event (yes, I know that's gone, but the coins from the cards aren't), Perfect Tokens of Best Luck, ...

Maybe the coins and mirages from TW aren't a drop in the ocean, but they're certainly no more than a small lake or pond. It just doesn't matter that much. Even most of the people who are complaining about it are simultaneously admitting that their TW funds only cover a small fraction of the costs.

The problem is quite simply this ... why? TW was one of the few things in this game that wasn't broken. Until now. We keep getting changes to things that are (supposedly) a problem in China, but who here is playing on Chinese servers? Meanwhile each week people bring up a laundry list of outstanding issues that have mostly been in the game since it began, and not one is ever fixed. I don't mean they aren't fixing as many bugs as we want as quickly as we want. I mean they aren't fixing any of them.

If the rationale was to balance things more and make TW more accessible to smaller factions, then why get rid of the refunds, even for failed bids? The explanations we're getting don't make sense and frankly come across as lies (though they might just be extremely poorly thought out).

I feel like I'm repeating myself (because I am), but the fundamental problem with so many of the changes we've seen in the last several months is simply that they don't fix anything that was broken and in fact break things that weren't. Ideally a patch should make things better. The best patches we're getting are a break even. Most of them are making things worse.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

So what you are saying is that the 20-30 people that sit in the front row at basketball games enjoy the game more than you? Because they ARE willing to pay 1000.00 to sit their butts in that seat. Its no different. If you enjoy something, you enjoy it. IF it costs too much for you to enjoy it then you sit mid section. You aren't on the front lines of the fun.

Same with TW. If you are truly in it for the fun and not the money.. go uncharmed. Go not caring if you win or lose but just for the fun of the sport! The fun is free other than repair bill. You don't even have to go with pots. You people are so spoiled to having all the luxuries in this game you need to be taken down a few notches. I'm glad they are doing that. And yes.. now with the implementation of this new system I very well may join a TW faction JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT! Before it cost too much and the reward wasn't worth it to me. Now I can go in and just have fun, and not worry about disappointing anyone if I die repeatedly b/c my gears aren't the best! Se la vie! I'm excited!

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

All I have to say is too bad so sad. Will stop the nutriders from guild hopping to wherever they can get the most pay.

For all the whiners complaining that the only thing they did was log in to TW and now they cant afford it...TOO BAD. Go farm some money or spend real money. If you are just a leech on the system then your opinions are irrelevant anyway. Spend money or GTFO.

You mean.... now they will be forced to be in factions that they actually like? Where there are people there that they actually want to do something with? OMG the world is falling and they can't get up! (nice post btw)

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

For a lot of you, if you can't afford charms at this level, with high level TT, Nirvana, Nien, CoA, etc etc, with the gear people are getting and the money people are making at this level, forget charms. Your gear is probably so shoddy that you get 1 shot by everyone with Jone's Blessing anyway.

*I'd quote it again but you did such a good job the first time*

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

Spend money or GTFO.

Are you sure you're not a paid employee of PWE?