Assassins again. GM answer pls.

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you fail i fail we all fail b:chuckle and OP fail

can be Pro at failing too.....

...

k good night lol

Quilue - Sanctuary

The main gripe is assassins stealthing until their cooldown is done, then attacking someone with the full assurance that they can stealth again should they fail to kill the person in one stun/seal combo. if any other class fails to kill before their stuns/seals/sleeps run out, the opponent at least gets to fight back, why can't this hold true for assassins as well?

The thread is obviously not about getting rid of stealth, it's about getting rid of being able to stealth as soon as you come out of stealth.

Just make cooldown for shadow escape not start until you're out of stealth so your opponent can have a chance to fight back. In fact, lower the cooldown to 30s if 90s is too long, just make it so you have to be visible for those 30s before you get to go stealth again.

Rerun - Harshlands

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It happened in dragon temple event. I was attacked by assassin from invisibility of course. Finally when I survived stunts, critical, etc I was going to hit him with looong channeling spell(because of course mages have incredible long channeling time regardless of used spell in compare with his attack rate), but he DISAPPEAR!!!. My question is. Is this the BALANCED game in your sight? GM pls. answer. I want to know what I can do against them.
Thanks

I know I know let me answer it.....

1st , If u only good at killing mobs, but suck at killing against Players.. dont go to those places that PK enable...after all, u on PvE right.. go kill some mobs..

2nd , learn to use ur skill well... PK doesnt have pre set move like mobs..

3rd , If u wanna know about how sin play before u start QQing, make sin alt and lvl it to see how it play out..

4th and last, if those above dont work, just un-install the game and go back to mario, ive heard there is no Sin, or PK there....

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Esuna - Raging Tide wrote: »

itt; lv101 OP class crying about new OP class.

All what I want to some1 tell me HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST THEM. NOBODY will able to do it. So?

Rerun - Harshlands

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All what I want to some1 tell me HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST THEM. NOBODY will able to do it. So?

Read above what ReRun said....... but if u asked GMs.. they gonna tell u to CS more.. rofl

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

U know a class is OP when my 71 sin beat a well geared 95 veno in a duel. I mean ... hitting 2k with 2x spark @ 1.5+aps ... makes me wanna just, lvl my sin again and buy a warsoul ^.^

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

U know a class is OP when my 71 sin beat a well geared 95 veno in a duel. I mean ... hitting 2k with 2x spark @ 1.5+aps ... makes me wanna just, lvl my sin again and buy a warsoul ^.^

b:chuckle whos that veno sounds like someone super fail

MagicHamsta - Lost City

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

O...kie...
me has a great idea for a Rising Tide Expansion Part 2.

PW makes contact with British Petroleum (That foreigner at book 28 actually be a employee for BP, Le Gasp! The chocolate just be a way to convince the natives that they be the good guys.), BP accidentally has another oil spill in the waters of PW.
Nearly all tideborn gets wiped out. The ones that do survive go back to their city to recuperate and rebuild.




Developers then take this time to fix issues such as skills used during stealth, stealth detection issues, balancing issues, etc. After they be done properly thinking out the expansion and fixing bugs, developers reintroduce tideborn in the Rising Tide part 3 expansion.

(>.<)

Also, all current tideborns will be afflicted with the "Oil Spill" sickness and won't be playable until the Rising Tide Expansion Part 3.
b:avoid

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Is my level 77 Blademaster OP for killing lv 90-100 Clerics, Wizards, and Venos? Because I've done it quite a few times. o.o

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Nah, you be Zanryu so it be okie.
b:avoid

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

@Eginael: All your posts seem to be "you can't do that? wow you fail." Why don't you actually post something constructive. like a helpful tip as to what to do in such a situation.

And personally I have to agree with the OP, fish are unbalanced. But I don't see it being fixed anytime soon so... not much to do then.

A/ - Harshlands wrote: »

if the sin has failed to take you out and then has force stealthed in order to regroup and try again, try hitting the button on the left side of your keyboard labeled "tab". When another mob close to you has been selected (hopefully within the general area of the sin), cast your quickest aoe skill and you might be able to knock the sin out of stealth if you are fast enough or lucky enough. I have been blasted while in stealth numerous times by an aoe skill which was cast before I could exit the area. There are ways around everything people, you just have to study your opponents methods and capabilities to find the ways.

And at this... I lol'd. No offence but thats a horrible idea in alot of situations. most aoe's for classes require 2 sparks, and have long chan. not to mention, what about the mob you just casted the aoe on? its like "hey I just aggro'd a couple mobs, it would really suck if a sin were to pop up and attack me now."...

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

this looks like a great thread to hamsterize.. Hamsta, Islamey, over to you! b:victory

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Hamster too tired.
:<

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Nah, you be Zanryu so it be okie.
b:avoid

*Gives Hamsta sunflower seeds* b:cute

Can we fill it with pictures of sexy things? I think that would be awesome! =D

MagicHamsta - Lost City

*nom nom nom nom.*
b:avoid

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*Gives Hamsta sunflower seeds* b:cute

Can we fill it with pictures of sexy things? I think that would be awesome! =D

go for it Zan ^^ ill help too, but you can kick start it!

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Eginael: All your posts seem to be "you can't do that? wow you fail." Why don't you actually post something constructive. like a helpful tip as to what to do in such a situation.

b:chuckle show me this so called all my posts please, I really want to have a look, ALL your posts seems to be "I agree with watever, I need to QQ", Why don't you actually post some example, like a ss as to prove your point.


Back on topic....Now it turns into a topic of how to pk sin using wiz, well OP really should just posted it wiz forum, posted here means OP want to QQ about butt hurt got hit hard by sin.

LOL what happen when wiz 1 shot archer or bm or even barb.. do they go OMG!! IM SO OPED!! PLZ NURF ME!! If you cant handle the game dont play it.

As i said before, Mrvate " just deal with it like everybody else or play a sin if you cant beat them join them. "

Here is something constructive. PWI WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOUR QQ GET OVER IT, STOP ASKING FOR DEVS/GM THERE ARE NO DEVS NOR GM AROUND.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Rerun - Harshlands wrote: »

I know I know let me answer it.....

1st , If u only good at killing mobs, but suck at killing against Players.. dont go to those places that PK enable...after all, u on PvE right.. go kill some mobs..

2nd , learn to use ur skill well... PK doesnt have pre set move like mobs..

3rd , If u wanna know about how sin play before u start QQing, make sin alt and lvl it to see how it play out..

4th and last, if those above dont work, just un-install the game and go back to mario, ive heard there is no Sin, or PK there....

So It's ok if you can kill me easily and I cannot even hit you back? YES??? This is how you image balanced game? I was playing games on computer when you were pissing to the diapers, so don't tell how to play.b:angry

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

this looks like a great thread to hamsterize.. Hamsta, Islamey, over to you! b:victory

b:avoidb:sin

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle show me this so called all my posts please, I really want to have a look, ALL your posts seems to be "I agree with watever, I need to QQ", Why don't you actually post some example, like a ss as to prove your point.

Ok all your posts from this thread.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And back on topic, There is 3 way out for you, 1 . quite the game, 2 just deal with it like everybody else or 3 play a sin if you cant beat them join them. A year now since you said "I will pawn all those ppl wrong against me since I was low" I yet to see you done anything, I'm waiting for you to smack someone and actually grow out of your noobness and QQ non stop stage.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea!! you agree with me that I proved your noobness

every body knew unless there are changes made at pw-cn, nothing will be changed here

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I will try to troll the failed troll post

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you fail i fail we all fail and OP fail

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

whos that veno sounds like someone super fail

All semi-related to fail, or stop QQ'ing. with no real helpful information. And I did post an example though not a SS. About how if a sin stealths when he realized he failed there isn't anything to do against it. Which was the last paragraph in my post. I'll quote it incase you missed it. And it was from a quote to aoe mobs in the area to hopefully nock a sin out of stealth.

Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And at this... I lol'd. No offence but thats a horrible idea in alot of situations. most aoe's for classes require 2 sparks, and have long chan. not to mention, what about the mob you just casted the aoe on? its like "hey I just aggro'd a couple mobs, it would really suck if a sin were to pop up and attack me now."...

Collapse - Harshlands

Dear GMs,

A barb perdi crit me for 47k. please nerf barbs, archers are fine, as its the class I play. Thanks. b:bye

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

b:embarrass I was talking to friends and we trolling.. he called me fail.. i called him fail.. but thx using that as a good example XD i almost forgot

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Sins are quite overpowering in PvP. A well geared sin with skill will at worst achieve a tactical draw in open 1v1 PvP.

The PvP system in PWI is HEAVILY influenced towards the better geared player; should the players have equal gear, it tends to shift towards the first attack. That said, sins will ALWAYS have the first-strike advantage. Add to this the fact that they can buff, spark, and attack all from stealth, and this adds up to an almost insurmountable advantage in their favor for any class without massive pdef.

I have fought a couple of sins who only hit me for 300 damage. These sins were 85 and below. I have also fought level 9x sins that completely tore my face off from stealth before their stun/sleep/occult ice was over.


The point I'm making is that perhaps the PWI PvP system is broken, rather than the tideborn, and the limitation of such a system are finally coming to light.

Personally, I have two ideas to "balance" sins. First would be to completely remove skill use from sins in stealth. This is not preferable simply because it would essentially render stealth useless, forcing them to appear right in front of a target for a couple seconds before regaining control of their character.

Second idea would be to implement a proximity stealth system. IE, the closer the sin to you, the higher your awareness bonus. This would still let the sin attack from stealth, but they would be forced to use their teleport and/or pray you don't blunder into them during your random wanderings.


As for beating a sin, there are only a couple options:

The first is to spam absolute domain / expel as soon as a sin hits you. This will keep you alive long enough to shrink away and get off a seal. After that, you're probably good or they'll just shadow escape and come back soon.

This brings me to option 2. When round 2 starts(or round one, if your genie's on cooldown), as soon as you see the sin, spam your triple spark key then distance shrink. Hopefully you will get your eruption off before the sins stun or sneak it in right as it wears off(if you last that long), giving yourself time to retaliate.

The final option is just to use apothecary pots whenever you think a sin is around. Not recommended for obvious reasons.

These are really the only options I've come up with for balancing/defeating sins in pvp. Anyone have more to share?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Nukesrus, in games with "combat stealth" a way of active stealth revealing skills also be a part of balancing stealth.
Some games do this in the form of actual AoE, not the multi target system PW uses.
Others, an item and/or skill (like a flare) that reveals some area of stealthed targets both of which will have a limit which prevents it from being perma spammed (like flare lasts 15 seconds but has a 30 second cooldown, or flare be an item which cost monies,takes inventory space, and has a cooldown which would make people unwilling to spam it.
o also some games has both those, or some variation (like what PW tried and failed to do: the pot which lets you completely see stealthed units except here the duration be pathetic, cooldown be ridiculous, and availability *which makes the price not worth it as well* be non existent for most players.)
b:avoid

Me personally like the true AoE, damage break stealth system.
x.x'
Me find that system the fairest (sins still get first shot, etc etc but me can attempt to counter their battle stealth by deducing their movements.)

Nukesrus - Harshlands

That's a good point, hamsta. Seeing as how I have very limited MMO experience, those are just the ideas that rattled off the top of my head.

I love the idea of true targeted AoE's, but I'm afraid that would require a total PWI engine overhaul.

Maybe we'll see it in Forsaken World...



EDIT: I LOVE the flare idea. Maybe even make it a genie skill to further balance things: "Light of Truth: Reveal all stealthed targets in an X meter radius."

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

Assassin class has convinced a poor soul it's worth spending 35 to 40 thousand dollars on the game. He saw how overpowered they are, and decided to take it a step further.

What possibly was a week's time of coming up with skills (Let's face it, these skills are like 90% of all the "assassin" classes on every other game so there's not a lot of time and thought put in to these classes) has already got them over 35,000 dollars, from a single player.

Now to be honest, I don't see it taking too long before another person does the same thing.
All in all, I don't like Assassins either hiding if they can't beat you or use their insane ATK level and attack speed to even drop barbs in a couple of hits as much as any other non-assassin playing person.
But you have to make peace with the fact that the class is netting PWI a lot, a LOT of money. They will not nerf it to the point where it's a balanced class. It's more profitable for them to keep it so that Assassins have a good advantage at PVP.
Same what they did with Phoenix, the amount of people that rolled a veno and got battle packs to get it made them a good amount of money. Now there's enough of them in game and people can buy the items needed to get the pets from others.
That period is over, when we have enough Warsoul daggers in the game, they'll come out with a new class.

"Female"

It will only have 1 skill.
"PMS"
"Passive buff: For 1 week a month you will reduce damage dealt to you by 100% and increase all stats by 500 times your current level, you will constantly cast an AoE that will hit all players around. The AoE will get them stuck in the bloody uterus you produce and they will drown while slowly damaging their armor/weapon till it shatters and/or drops. This skill bypasses the effect of guardian angel and ignores PK off settings.)"

1 month later.

"News"
"Tampon"
What's new this month in the boutique? TAMPONS! This item will protect you from the new class that has crushed many, many players all around PWI. You can purchase this item by accessing our in game boutique shop. Press the "O" (oh) key to access the boutique shop.

50 gold, expires after 30 days.

Yep.

Daggster - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So It's ok if you can kill me easily and I cannot even hit you back? YES??? This is how you image balanced game? I was playing games on computer when you were pissing to the diapers, so don't tell how to play.b:angry

a wizard saying that it's not ok killing someone before he hits u lol ... wizards can 1shot everyone @ endgame .... which means they can't hit u back either ... think before post lol
... so to answer your question form the beginning of the thread:



ever heared of the genie skills absolute domain and expel?

i will discribe them for u and their benefits in pvping against an assassin as a wizard

absolute domain: Grants u immunity to every kind of damage and negative status effect for a few seconds.
This should be enough time to break the sins stun-seal-lock seal him so he can't go stealth and pew pew down, problem solved.

since abs domain has a high cool down there is a even better skill for wizrads to use!

EXPEL!!!!!
This skill can be used on you or your target!
Expel makes the target immune to physical damage and seals it for 9 seconds!(10 secs with a 50dex genie) this is more than enough time for a wizard to kill the sin without having him going to stealth! If u fail to kill him in time u can still sleep and seal him with your wiz skills ijs.
Expel has a 1 sec cool down! and requires 125 energy to use.
I don't think that there are many wizards on Lost City without Expel on the genie. ... even a lot of archers and clerics use that spell too(ofc sins have it too).


Now some interesting observations:

90% of the QQing about OP Sins comes from people that play on a PVE-Server!(90% of them are mages, which are know as the OPest PVP class @ endgame, because they can get as much physical defense as a heavy armor user and even more while 1shoting everyone, even 30k+ hp chars lol)
People from PVP-Servers learned to handle with the sins, by using detection pots and/or genie skills like above. They realized that sins are the squishiest class in PWI. And yes they are a ninja class ... Assassins are meant to ninja ...


QQing about Deaden Nerves skill ... usually a 9x sin has about 5k hp with decent gears ... after their hp goes down DN regenerates 20% which equals 1k hp ...
a wizard sure can hit a assassin for 5k while it is sleeped by his skill or sealed, and still has enough time to start channeling the 2. skill which sure deals 1k dmg.
Yes as soon as u have started to channel a spell and the assassin is entering stealth he gets hit by it .... which means u can always 2-3 shot(depends on 1. hit 5k+ or lower ...) a assassin, while he needs about 20 hits to kill the 10k+ physical defense wizard.

Come on suckas go learn to play your chars and maybe start reading the effects of genie skills, would be even better to make some thoughts about how and when to use them against which class(can't be that this only seems to be made on a pvp server lol u guys sure got tws too ...). U can even search the forums about such stuff there are more than enough posts ...

thx for reading "how to stop being fail in pvp: lesson 1"
lesson 2 would be about skills and their timings ... but that's too much to type for my taste lol u should be able to figure out when to use or not use which skill, with a little practice

kthxbai

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Daggster - Lost City wrote: »

ever heared of the genie skills absolute domain and expel?

i will discribe them for u and their benefits in pvping against an assassin as a wizard

absolute domain: Grants u immunity to every kind of damage and negative status effect for a few seconds.
This should be enough time to break the sins stun-seal-lock seal him so he can't go stealth and pew pew down, problem solved.

since abs domain has a high cool down there is a even better skill for wizrads to use!

EXPEL!!!!!
This skill can be used on you or your target!
Expel makes the target immune to physical damage and seals it for 9 seconds!(10 secs with a 50dex genie) this is more than enough time for a wizard to kill the sin without having him going to stealth! If u fail to kill him in time u can still sleep and seal him with your wiz skills ijs.
Expel has a 1 sec cool down! and requires 125 energy to use.
I don't think that there are many wizards on Lost City without Expel on the genie. ... even a lot of archers and clerics use that spell too(ofc sins have it too).


They realized that sins are the squishiest class in PWI. And yes they are a ninja class ... Assassins are meant to ninja ...

1st thing, expel is now nerfed(in case you didnt know, do your research) and 99% of the time, it cant be casted on your opponent, only yourself.

2nd if absolute domain prevents 1 shot, you knwo what? sins can use it too, come out of stealth, press on abs domain and watch the wizard die.

3rd between sins and archer, who is squishier? and there are sins with 10k hp in dreamweaver, if that is squishy, then i dont really know what is not.

4th if the wizard use detection pot, its an advantage to the sin because he can use those invincibility pots, or mag def pot or shield pots

it is kinda unfair that we need all these things just to counter a class.

Esuna - Raging Tide

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All what I want to some1 tell me HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST THEM. So?

OP sounds like oraclebaby imo

how i play game plz. plz.

Tivas - Archosaur

Also note this if u sense that a sin is near... Pop up ur fly mount and be on air so that the damage will be redue and u have more chance to survive..

Usualy i absolute domain the shrink seal sandstorm dead......

OFC this dont work always, has for shadow escape hit them with crown of flame so they burn and cant go invisible, i never tryed this but i think it works