State of the Game - DQ Price

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you think that grinding DQ is a good way to make money, you're doing it wrong in my opinion.

And in my opinion, this is where you're wrong.

Grinding DQ and other such drops for most classes isn't the most profitable way to spend your time because, yes, the money goes towards repairs and other such things. Some classes however can grind DQ and profit greatly from it.

I could grind on my veno for DQ an hour every day and make a lot of money from it in the course of the week. Just because you couldn't do the same given your class, that doesn't mean grinding DQ is wrong and it doesn't mean that this nerf is okay.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And in my opinion, this is where you're wrong.

Grinding DQ and other such drops for most classes isn't the most profitable way to spend your time because, yes, the money goes towards repairs and other such things. Some classes however can grind DQ and profit greatly from it.

I could grind on my veno for DQ an hour every day and make a lot of money from it in the course of the week. Just because you couldn't do the same given your class, that doesn't mean grinding DQ is wrong and it doesn't mean that this nerf is okay.

It is only good if you are 100% sure you can't get more by running TTs or any other dungeon. Of course when you can grind as a cleric or veno, you don't lose much money and can gain up to 400k per hour. That still doesn't mean it should be your main money making way. For some classes it sucks (like barbs) and the money you make usually goes to repairs. You can use it as an additional money making way, but if you plan on getting a Lunar weapon or something, running TTs usually beats grinding DQs.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is only good if you are 100% sure you can't get more by running TTs or any other dungeon. Of course when you can grind as a cleric or veno, you don't lose much money and can gain up to 400k per hour. That still doesn't mean it should be your main money making way. For some classes it sucks (like barbs) and the money you make usually goes to repairs. You can use it as an additional money making way, but if you plan on getting a Lunar weapon or something, running TTs usually beats grinding DQs.

You're still being very specific and subjective about the whole thing.

The fact of the matter is that for many people who grind DQ - and I was one of them because I would grind on my alt and make a very reasonable amount of money from it - this nerf is unnecessary. If it's easier for you to grind TT and sell the mats, then you go grind TT and sell the mats.

In my opinion TT until 9x is worthless unless you're farming your own gear because of all the 2x events flooding the market with mats. I'm not sitting here and telling you that TT is a waste of your time, am I?

You make your money through TT, others make it through DQ. The point of this is to make it clear the compensation should have been delivered at the same time as or as close as possible to the nerf because DQ is one of the main forms of making money before TT. Players below 60 can't just romp around in 1-1 and expect to get anything from it, yet you seem to be suggesting that they can. This nerf affects players who cannot TT or are not of a high enough level to TT and actually profit from the mats. Your argument of using TT to gain money is invalid because at the level where you can sell TT mats and actually both sell those mats and make a real profit is at the same level you never farm DQ anyway.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I never denied that his/hers post was incorrect. It was just so full of QQ it should have never been posted.

And yes, I'm a free player. It means that I don't directly support the game by spending real money. However, I'm a merchant and I buy gold from Gold Trading. The most gold I've bought in a week was 250 gold, and once I bought around 140 gold in a day. That's the way I support the game. Anyway, that's kinda offtopic. I don't like the fact that they nerfed the DQ price, but I've moved on already. The only DQ items I get are from BHs, and when I get more coins from those than I use to teleport to dungeon, I'm fine. If you think that grinding DQ is a good way to make money, you're doing it wrong in my opinion. In most MMOs, the reason why mobs drop valuable items is that you can repair your stuff and use pots while grinding. It's not the main reason to grind. It's just there to bring more money to economy and eventually to **** it so bad that everything costs too much for a free player. It was no different for this game until the BHs were introduced. They needed another coin flood, and it's called "10m big notes".

This thread is technically comprised of "QQ", in a sense. However, it's the truth. People voice their opinions in many different ways, and I clearly respect this. Merching is a great way to make coin. But lets look closely on how merchanting actually works.

Lets say you start with 1m coin. You go stock up on something cheap, which in this example I'm going to use Teles. 10.5k per, tokens 10.1k, 400 coins profit per tele. Now, think about it this way. When people come to buy from your cat shop, they are going to have coin. Where does all this coin come from? A very large portion of this coin, and feel free to correct me here, but nearly all comes from:
-TW Lands
-10m Bank Note
-Selling Mirages 10k per NPC base price
-Ecstasy Cards from BH, Nien Event, etc
-DQ drops sold via NPC

The problem is simply put - 20% less coin in the market. This creates higher gold - as people don't have that coin to put into buying gold. The merchants get damage delt as well, as the DQ drops are selling for 20% less, thus people that aquire coin from almost anywhere, get some sort of percentage of coin that actually came from an amount of DQ drops. Essentially, the 20% nerf of DQ drops, did deal quite a significant amount of damage, even if your unable to see this at it's current state.

As for this other argument of how grinding DQ isn't profitable, shouldn't be done, etc... It's quite the opposite. As I stated above, coin comes into the market via generally from what I listed. Grinding for DQ can be profitable, and can be dependant upon the user's level and class, a very good way to make coin. Even if your not grinding for DQ drops, your still getting DQ from quests, BHs, etc which in return you sell, and generally make an actual profit well over your repair/pot costs.

Basically, simply put - the DQ price drop is bad for everyone, and there's no denying it. You can merch all you want. You can merch 24/7/365. Problem is, even if you don't see it - your getting 20% less profit, due to 20% less coin in everyone's pockets. Running TTs in the current economy won't go far. For the people that don't merch, there is very few profitable ways to survive in the current in-game economy:
-Farm Nirvana -> Sell/split = Coin in your pocket
-Farm 3-2 for gold mats -> Sell/split = Coin in your pocket
-Farm 3-3 for gold mats -> Sell/split = coin in your pocket

Where does all that coin that you get from selling the gold mats and canny/raps in Nirvana? From the things that produce in-game coin out of nowhere as stated above in the list I created.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You're still being very specific and subjective about the whole thing.

The fact of the matter is that for many people who grind DQ - and I was one of them because I would grind on my alt and make a very reasonable amount of money from it - this nerf is unnecessary. If it's easier for you to grind TT and sell the mats, then you go grind TT and sell the mats.

In my opinion TT until 9x is worthless unless you're farming your own gear because of all the 2x events flooding the market with mats. I'm not sitting here and telling you that TT is a waste of your time, am I?

You make your money through TT, others make it through DQ. The point of this is to make it clear the compensation should have been delivered at the same time as or as close as possible to the nerf because DQ is one of the main forms of making money before TT. Players below 60 can't just romp around in 1-1 and expect to get anything from it, yet you seem to be suggesting that they can. This nerf affects players who cannot TT or are not of a high enough level to TT and actually profit from the mats. Your argument of using TT to gain money is invalid because at the level where you can sell TT mats and actually both sell those mats and make a real profit is at the same level you never farm DQ anyway.

That's why I said it shouldn't be your main money-making way unless there aren't any other ways. I'm going to say it one last time: I'm against this change. The thing is, you can't expect the dev's to make compensation instantly. In a F2P game, you can't expect anything.

Yishuin - Sanctuary

quote system is broken... i can't write what i want to

BTW stop speaking about the right or not to change dq price. thats not the subject and you are just providing a bad way to this topic.

rugal

Grinding DQ is not the best way to grind anyway. Its better to grind for rough fur (lvl 16-40 around) and sell them in auction 9k each, dull claws for 5k, element fragment 4k, purified oil 5k, hay for 10k (lv 18-32).

Even later at lv 60+ you can grind reinforced leathers for 9k. DQs do give a bit of money, but its really not 20% of your income since those mats I just named give you a lot more. The best way to grind for money I found were the lvl 20 netherworld soulreaper and pale archlich, which have a 13% chance to drop hay. I can get 3-7 every 10 minutes (I count it that way because I use life powder for easy grind) and sell them 10k each in auction house, its a bit overpriced but people buy them, go figure. The reason those are the best mobs to grind is because they respawn like 5 secs after they die so you dont have to run around too much and they dont agro you.

When I am at lv 22 (the max lvl before a lv 20 mob turns green), I infuse the exp on my genie to stay lv 22. Its tedious but thats what grinding is. If you want to grind good stuff while still leveling, go for something like lv 16-18 rough fur mobs, 18-22 hay mobs in tideborn territory, 22-24 rhinodrake megalith for hay outside of archo. Then from 25 upwards go for the mobs that drop dull claw and rough fur.

I have a lv 90 archer and it was great to farm Venison while it was still 30k a pop (because the perfect cookies were out) but now the lv 85 ninetail foxes and firebath phoenixes are green named and there are no good mobs to grind on within my lvl range, lv 87 chipmunk glutton are pretty easy and drop reinforced leather but thats it, and theyre green named. So my lv 22 assassin grinds more per hour than my lv 90.

Kawaiiiii - Raging Tide

rugal wrote: »

Grinding DQ is not the best way to grind anyway. Its better to grind for rough fur (lvl 16-40 around) and sell them in auction 9k each, dull claws for 5k, element fragment 4k, purified oil 5k, hay for 10k (lv 18-32).

Even later at lv 60+ you can grind reinforced leathers for 9k. DQs do give a bit of money, but its really not 20% of your income since those mats I just named give you a lot more. The best way to grind for money I found were the lvl 20 netherworld soulreaper and pale archlich, which have a 13% chance to drop hay. I can get 3-7 every 10 minutes (I count it that way because I use life powder for easy grind) and sell them 10k each in auction house, its a bit overpriced but people buy them, go figure. The reason those are the best mobs to grind is because they respawn like 5 secs after they die so you dont have to run around too much and they dont agro you.

When I am at lv 22 (the max lvl before a lv 20 mob turns green), I infuse the exp on my genie to stay lv 22. Its tedious but thats what grinding is. If you want to grind good stuff while still leveling, go for something like lv 16-18 rough fur mobs, 18-22 hay mobs in tideborn territory, 22-24 rhinodrake megalith for hay outside of archo. Then from 25 upwards go for the mobs that drop dull claw and rough fur.

I have a lv 90 archer and it was great to farm Venison while it was still 30k a pop (because the perfect cookies were out) but now the lv 85 ninetail foxes and firebath phoenixes are green named and there are no good mobs to grind on within my lvl range, lv 87 chipmunk glutton are pretty easy and drop reinforced leather but thats it, and theyre green named. So my lv 22 assassin grinds more per hour than my lv 90.

don't be stupid.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

rugal wrote: »

Grinding DQ is not the best way to grind anyway. Its better to grind for rough fur (lvl 16-40 around) and sell them in auction 9k each, dull claws for 5k, element fragment 4k, purified oil 5k, hay for 10k (lv 18-32).

You know that dull claws and element fragments are Dragon Quest items right?

When we say "farm DQ" we aren't saying "farm DQ and NPC everything."

ShadowOfLife - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In my opinion TT until 9x is worthless unless you're farming your own gear because of all the 2x events flooding the market with mats. I'm not sitting here and telling you that TT is a waste of your time, am I?

I would gladly say that most TTs are a waste of their time.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You know that dull claws and element fragments are Dragon Quest items right?

When we say "farm DQ" we aren't saying "farm DQ and NPC everything."

Yeah, but that's only true for lower levels. Most people don't buy higher level DQs.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, but that's only true for lower levels. Most people don't buy higher level DQs.

Yeah, but that's the whole point. I really don't see why I am having to reiterate to you that DQ is one of the main sources of income for those who cannot farm instances, AKA those below level 60. I also don't see why I am having to reiterate to you that TT mats below level 90 are worth jack because of a flooded market.

You can sit here and argue that DQ is not worth it all you want, but it's possible to make quite a large amount of money from farming DQ, and you don't have to grind specifically for DQ to do it - because you can do it while you quest as well. If you don't think it's worth it? Fine, don't do it. There are however, people who do think it's worth it, and there are people who used DQ as their main source of income. This nerf affects them, and this is why people are/were here complaining. You coming in here and preaching to farm TT isn't a solution, particularly for people who can't farm those instances anyway.

(And if you're seriously trying to say farming TT is worth it below 9x at this point, you need to go look at the price for most TT mats below 90 gear. They suck, big time. )

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah, but that's the whole point. I really don't see why I am having to reiterate to you that DQ is one of the main sources of income for those who cannot farm instances, AKA those below level 60. I also don't see why I am having to reiterate to you that TT mats below level 90 are worth jack because of a flooded market.

You can sit here and argue that DQ is not worth it all you want, but it's possible to make quite a large amount of money from farming DQ, and you don't have to grind specifically for DQ to do it - because you can do it while you quest as well. If you don't think it's worth it? Fine, don't do it. There are however, people who do think it's worth it, and there are people who used DQ as their main source of income. This nerf affects them, and this is why people are/were here complaining. You coming in here and preaching to farm TT isn't a solution, particularly for people who can't farm those instances anyway.

(And if you're seriously trying to say farming TT is worth it below 9x at this point, you need to go look at the price for most TT mats below 90 gear. They suck, big time. )

Complaining won't help anything. You have to learn other ways to counter the change. Even if you post to this thread every month and demand the compensation, you won't get anything done. The compensation comes when the time is ready for it.

Anyway, I came here and told people to farm TTs since I think it's a viable option for the levels that can do it. The first good TT is 1-2. 1-3 is good and 2-2 is nice as well, not forgetting 2-3 either. 3-x are also nice, but that's completely another story.

ValFera - Heavens Tear

Well faming DQ matts is okay for a class like a veno, or any magic class for that matter (other than archer) for the rest of us faming dq matts is not worth the hassel, as the repair bills to the equipment usually eat anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of your profit up.

Now as for TT matts there are a few that are still worth faming in the lower TTs (not as lucrative as the higher ones) but still the bosses that veno's can't tank solo with a herc are the ones that are worth a little bit of coin. Those would be Soulbanisher and Drum bosses from the 1.x series and the General Wurlord from the 2.x series.

But seriously it would be nice if the person whom started this thread would come back in and give us an update on the situation it has benn 2 months since out last update come on guys i know you are busy with HOTK but that just went live so WTF.

spikefool

What does this guy do, because he doesnt show up on my game do I have to complete a quest to talk to him or do i evenn need him?

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

ValFera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well faming DQ matts is okay for a class like a veno, or any magic class for that matter (other than archer) for the rest of us faming dq matts is not worth the hassel, as the repair bills to the equipment usually eat anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of your profit up.

You haven't realized a clerics MP pots/food cost, have you?
Also needing to carry around rez scrolls/GA's sucks since squad wipes may happen.

ValFera - Heavens Tear

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

You haven't realized a clerics MP pots/food cost, have you?
Also needing to carry around rez scrolls/GA's sucks since squad wipes may happen.

Why are you farming for DQ items in a squad is that not a bit counter productive ><

But anyways yes i do take into account that farming DQ matts IS NOT GRINDING or at least not HARDCORE GRINDING. So there should be no costs for mp food etc. sit your BUTT down and recharge.

I can say this i have a lvl 90 alt cleric, 81 alt Archer, 75 Alt Wizzy, and 70 Alt Veno so yes i do have some experience in what and how to farm DQ matts.

ChopChop - Raging Tide

I cannot be bothered to read through all the post so ill just say ill agree with
all those that have already said PWI is scaming us.

Its there game they can do what they like ? Not true . They can do what they like aslong as we let them.

To lower the DQ price and do nothing in return to me smacks of trying to force the casual player who has to work for a living to charge Zen to keep up with the normal runing costs of a char. Or to spend an eternity farming and lvling for the same reason making the game totaly boring .

Why wasnt rewards from quests increased ? bot farmers dont do quests that requires manual operation of a char.

If the average working player wanted to pay to play there are alot better games out there.

PTP games also have one distintive advantage your wallet cant buy success you do have to earn it.

Also whilst im at it why would you want to encourage people to create a facebook account ? what do you get from it ? .

We all know kids play this game ane encouraging them to use a social networking site is a bad bad idea. Im sure if there parents knew what you was doing they would ban them from playing . It even makes me wonder if its legal to encourage such a practise.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

ChopChop - Raging Tide wrote: »

We all know kids play this game ane encouraging them to use a social networking site is a bad bad idea. Im sure if there parents knew what you was doing they would ban them from playing . It even makes me wonder if its legal to encourage such a practise.

What? I don't know any parents that don't allow their kids to make a Facebook account. Many parents have FB account too. Wait, you're from USA?

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

ValFera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well faming DQ matts is okay for a class like a veno, or any magic class for that matter (other than archer) for the rest of us faming dq matts is not worth the hassel, as the repair bills to the equipment usually eat anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of your profit up

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

You haven't realized a clerics MP pots/food cost, have you?
Also needing to carry around rez scrolls/GA's sucks since squad wipes may happen.

ValFera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why are you farming for DQ items in a squad is that not a bit counter productive ><

This debate make me laugh. b:laugh

bramante

Oh how this thread has developed... makes me b:chuckle

As far as I see it, the devs like nothing more than an easy life, supping green tea. So, rather than find a way to combat the illegal bots and farming/coin sites, they take the quick and easy option by shafting all their players. Providing some kind of compensation for the players here? Oh no, that requires (thought and time) effort. No way Pedro will anything be done. b:angry

As ChopChop pointed out, it's all good for encouraging people to spend hard earned wonga to make a few coins. Besides that, surely it will encourage more bots to infest the CN version to make up the shortfall, starving players of income, therefore more cash to them too, in the long run... in the race to survive (umm... win).

Beat the CN bots, not the players backsides...

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Right now we are in the middle of heavy discussions with the development team to think of ways to compensate PWI players for this change. The developers agree and sympathize with PWI players that this change is unfair. Now we can’t go into the specifics, but there are a lot of ideas being thrown around. Rest assured that something will be done as soon as possible.
Of course there are still a lot of things that are coming down the pipeline in the form of bug fixes and new features. We can’t wait to tell you about all the new stuff coming very soon. For now, enjoy the Summer Event, destroy your opponents with your new skills, and revel in the 2x Event!

Anyone else think the Bush administration was hired by PWI?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Anyone else think the Bush administration was hired by PWI?

I thought that the Bush administration went to PWi after they left office. Isn't it obvious?

ThrawnOFive - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I thought that the Bush administration went to PWi after they left office. Isn't it obvious?

Actually it's more like the Obama administration since it's been how many months and still no cap on the well... errr... DQ price fix?

Euphy - Dreamweaver

Thrawn, it hasn't be many months since the Gulf disaster. Unless your idea of many is vastly different than mine... Moreover Aubree was pointing out that the PWi management is resorting to similar vague rhetoric as the Bush Administration did through its 8 years in office. The Obama Administration - despite it faults and the challenges it does face - has generally been quite transparent.

I have an idea - why don't you remove the option to exchange Tokens of Best Luck for 10,000,000 coins? Prices would drop like a rock and grinders, farmers, and crafters would have a chance to compete with merchants, pack-poppers, and gold sellers.

ValFera - Heavens Tear

Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have an idea - why don't you remove the option to exchange Tokens of Best Luck for 10,000,000 coins? Prices would drop like a rock and grinders, farmers, and crafters would have a chance to compete with merchants, pack-poppers, and gold sellers.

OMG a good thoughtout idea, too bad it probably will not get implemented or if it does take forever (like the removal of the coin boxes from the cube).

On a side note, another week and another post, where is our update FRANKIERAYE, are you too scared to face a thread of 24 pages of people that have woken up from the PWI spell you and previous GMs have put us under and know the truth now. I mean if you changed your minds or flat out lied to us at least have the decency to come in here and tell us that.

Remember everyone UNLIKE pwi see if that wakes them up

ihateyouallwtf

One of you effing losers somehow **** my debit card number on the internet and charged the hell outta my bank account for this site??????? Are you kidding me? You robbed me to play a video game? I googled the name on my bank statement and THIS came up? You must be such a loser that you cant earn 82 bucks at a job that you need to steal?! You people all need to grow the eff up!

RazorTank - Lost City

Ppl here r so....angry.

Yishuin - Sanctuary

hello franky...

a major update is coming out so... news about DQ price compensation? or am I really living the dream you will answer?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Yishuin - Sanctuary wrote: »

hello franky...

a major update is coming out so... news about DQ price compensation? or am I really living the dream you will answer?

I think there will be no answer what the new patch will contain this close to the release of the new patch even if it was related to this issue. And since it will released very soon, I think frankie would've at least said a bit more earlier than "working on it".