State of the Game - DQ Price
Comments
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the ban hammer also only works if you can apply it faster than new bots can be signed up. guess what: the account creation process can be botted. automating banning is too risky, though, because one small slip-up when you're writing that code and you might auto-ban half the real players before you notice what your ban-Mjollnir is doing.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0
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RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »IT IS ONLY 20%..........
*sigh*
When no answer = QQ
When get some type of response and answer = QQ more
When a fix comes = QQ
...people are never happy ffs.........
you would be mad too if boss take 'only' 20% of ur pay, because 'instert something exotic' and dont give any compensation for it
and he just promiste 'insert something vague' in some future, when you know he has problems with fulfilling his promises :P
and it s pwe fault that community is more and more QQish and every statement from them is treated as suspiciousBUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »you would be mad too if boss take 'only' 20% of ur pay, because 'instert something exotic' and dont give any compensation for it
and he just promiste 'insert something vague' in some future, when you know he has problems with fulfilling his promises :P
and it s pwe fault that community is more and more QQish and every statement from them is treated as suspicious
Personally, I don't like that metaphor, because it likens playing a game to a job, which it should never be. Also, it makes it sound like you think we should get paid for playing the game.
Though, ignoring those two things, the current situation just might end up looking like this:
Boss: Ok, I cut your pay by 20% because we need to do that!
Employee: What? Do I get anything for that?
Boss: Well, we'll send you to a vacation for a week.
Employee: Is that really all? What if I quit right afterwards?
Boss: Well, we expect you to stay with us for the next three years, so you'll be getting that vacation three years from now. Or you can instead take a few days off work whenever you please.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
People need to realize what they have and be grateful for it, and they usually only do that until it is all gone. I have never had any real money in the first place, I often spend needlessly, but often it is to help others nowadays.
That said, if you think that the DQ Price is unfair, then you have a lot to learn about the world here. It's not the only income, some people spend days and days without even touching DQ items.There once a time when I cared about getting to the top quickly as possible to help others. Now, I take it slow, and don't worry about having nothing to do. There's always something to do in an MMORPG, especially if you are high level. PK'ing is for those who desire to inflate their egos. True friendship comes from helping one-another, rather than to start rivalries.
It takes 315300 Mysterious Chips to make one warsoul weapon, if you have a 100% success rate.0 -
I have to agree with the people who say DQ drops aren't worth it. I think that back when you actually had to work for your levels, you got money mostly by grinding since that's what you were doing mostly for levels. I also think that you won't be able to keep up with your equips if you do 3x BH and an occasional gamma and then try to grind.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »IT IS ONLY 20%..........
*sigh*
When no answer = QQ
When get some type of response and answer = QQ more
When a fix comes = QQ
...people are never happy ffs.........
It's not that I care that DQ has been nerfed. Really, I don't. However
When no answer = QQ [because it is the GMs responsibility to keep us even part way informed about changes going on in the game, especially reduction changes like this that may affect the gameplay of a lot of players.]
When some type of response = QQ more [because this time it wasn't even really a response. Frankie's post originally was a response, and people were annoyed because we are having to suffer for such a poor fix to botting in another version. A problem we don't have. This is making people upset because it's unnecessary and doesn't tell us anything new. The old thread was fine. It told us exactly the same thing. That news post isn't an update at all and we are annoyed that it's being perceived by the GMs as an update when it isn't.]
When a fix comes = QQ [because so far all fixes have been rendered near null and void by new bugs. No purify or purge of TB buffs/debuffs for instance. This is if we even get a fix at all.]
Sometimes the QQ is unnecessary and I wouldn't argue that, but this time I feel some of it is warranted. And above is why.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's not that I care that DQ has been nerfed. Really, I don't. However
When no answer = QQ [because it is the GMs responsibility to keep us even part way informed about changes going on in the game, especially reduction changes like this that may affect the gameplay of a lot of players.]
When some type of response = QQ more [because this time it wasn't even really a response. Frankie's post originally was a response, and people were annoyed because we are having to suffer for such a poor fix to botting in another version. A problem we don't have. This is making people upset because it's unnecessary and doesn't tell us anything new. The old thread was fine. It told us exactly the same thing. That news post isn't an update at all and we are annoyed that it's being perceived by the GMs as an update when it isn't.]
When a fix comes = QQ [because so far all fixes have been rendered near null and void by new bugs. No purify or purge of TB buffs/debuffs for instance. This is if we even get a fix at all.]
Sometimes the QQ is unnecessary and I wouldn't argue that, but this time I feel some of it is warranted. And above is why.
Aww Airyll you're getting soft. b:chuckle
On a serious note, you are right. QQing is okay since after all, we all want changes and nothing is going to happen without saying we want it done. I agree with Airyll completely.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »Aww Airyll you're getting soft. b:chuckle
On a serious note, you are right. QQing is okay since after all, we all want changes and nothing is going to happen without saying we want it done. I agree with Airyll completely.
Oh hur, am I? We'll have to fix that, lemme find my brass knuckles... b:avoid
Sometimes I think we have far too much QQ on these forums, I really do. Rose is right to be annoyed at the amount of crying we have going on.
But in this one case, I feel like most of the complaints really are justified. We are being punished for a problem we do not have. We complained. Okay, cool, we were noticed and there's now discussions as to a fix. Why repost this whole thing in the news when you had already said it. Why treat it, now, as if you've had an update or new information, when you have not? This is deception at it's worst, I was expecting to see new information as to a possible fix in that news post and all I saw was information I already knew.
Of course people will be annoyed at that. Rightly so. People are feeling lied to because that news post wasn't anything new. It wasn't an actual update. And then, when you compare the date of that post to the date of Frankie telling us the same thing it has been a long while since discussions started. We've not even seen a glimmer of result beyond what we were told by Frankie and now, in a news post.
People have the right to be annoyed with the incessant complaining we see because most of it is, indeed, uncalled for. In this case, however, it is most certainly called for. We did nothing to deserve punitive action for a problem we don't have - regardless of how small or menial it may be to many of us. You do not slap somebody on the wrist for something they did not do, regardless of what the supposed action was.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's not that I care that DQ has been nerfed. Really, I don't. However
When no answer = QQ [because it is the GMs responsibility to keep us even part way informed about changes going on in the game, especially reduction changes like this that may affect the gameplay of a lot of players.]
When some type of response = QQ more [because this time it wasn't even really a response. Frankie's post originally was a response, and people were annoyed because we are having to suffer for such a poor fix to botting in another version. A problem we don't have. This is making people upset because it's unnecessary and doesn't tell us anything new. The old thread was fine. It told us exactly the same thing. That news post isn't an update at all and we are annoyed that it's being perceived by the GMs as an update when it isn't.]
When a fix comes = QQ [because so far all fixes have been rendered near null and void by new bugs. No purify or purge of TB buffs/debuffs for instance. This is if we even get a fix at all.]
Sometimes the QQ is unnecessary and I wouldn't argue that, but this time I feel some of it is warranted. And above is why.
The problem is that people are blaming the wrong people
Write the devs....it is easy to find the address and even email to corporate in China, ijs. Hell...if you want I will get it for you...
There information is public after-all...Zzzzzz
Also, what do you want them to do 100% outline every deal and meeting they are having in regards to this?
hell, I do not even do the above at my job (yes the corporate business world). You give people just enough information to let them know that AT LEAST SOMETHING IS BEING DONE OR CONSIDERED.
The rest is based on corporate and time. It is not something that would be easily remedied in 5 seconds. And I am sure the GM's might be just as frustrated...ever think about that?
No...people only think about themselves and NOT the OVERALL PICTURE....
You are right though...it is rather annoying because all it seems people do is QQ...*sigh*
And @ the taking 20% off pay ---> It is called cut-backs/taxes/increase in insurance costs/increase in housing costs....happens ALL the time in the real world..but nice try
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »The problem is that people are blaming the wrong people
Write the devs....it is easy to find the address and even email to corporate in China, ijs. Hell...if you want I will get it for you...
There information is public after-all...Zzzzzz
Also, what do you want them to do 100% outline every deal and meeting they are having in regards to this?
hell, I do not even do the above at my job (yes the corporate business world). You give people just enough information to let them know that AT LEAST SOMETHING IS BEING DONE OR CONSIDERED.
The rest is based on corporate and time. It is not something that would be easily remedied in 5 seconds. And I am sure the GM's might be just as frustrated...ever think about that?
No...people only think about themselves and NOT the OVERALL PICTURE....
You are right though...it is rather annoying because all it seems people do is QQ...*sigh*
And @ the taking 20% off pay ---> It is called cut-backs/taxes/increase in insurance costs/increase in housing costs....happens ALL the time in the real world..but nice try
I never said people were blaming the right people, did I now? Only that this outcry is called for because of how it has been handled.
Also, as much as I appreciate the job our GMs do, I hate to say that they have not handled things well in the past. Things went left unsaid where something should have been said, and suchlike. Now, while I am one for second chances, not everybody is. The fact GMs have made mistakes means people will hold them more responsible then they should.
Yes, GMs are only human, but this excuse doesn't go down well with angry customers in the business world. No, GMs should not be blamed as they are, but in a way it's partly the whiplash of their own mishandling of previous situations. This was going to happen at some point. And I am only defending the fact that this outcry is more than called for.
Did I say the GMs were to blame? No. But as I've just said, this is part of the backlash from situations that weren't handled well. Reasonable? Not necessarily, but since when are angry customers reasonable?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I just don't find it called for...the same with many other things in the past.
Maybe because I look at if from a different perspective and deal with this all with in the constraints of my job....
Only difference, in my job people don't QQ. They ask as many questions as they can and wait for an answer.
After-all...even the most informed may not know what is going on and it is better sometimes just to at least acknowledge things are being done.
Hell....I am thinking tbh that the GM's know very little of what may or may not be done. It is more them bouncing ideas to corporate....waiting like everyone else b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
In many ways, the blame put on GMs is not called for.
We all perceive things differently. I've not worked in a job where I've had to withhold information from people because of management or a lack of knowledge, so I really can't say that I know how the GMs feel or that I honestly know how unjust the whole thing is.
The GMs probably only know a smidgen more than us, I wouldn't disbelieve that either. However, I have qualms with the way things have been handled in the past. Now, it's a game, I'm not necessarily bitter, but at the same time as being a game it's also a company and this is where a lot of difference comes in. Especially to younger players who don't understand management, among other things, nor business. Angry customers are not reasonable or rational, and if you look at this from the perspective that PWI is a business then everybody complaining is an angry customer. Some complaints will always be unreasonable and these people difficult to deal with. Other complaints, like this one, are rational.
Do angry customers know who to contact? In a way, yes. They contact the first people they know to; support teams or people who can deal with the issues or pass them on to somebody else. In this case, the GMs. They will always come under fire. Always. Forever. Past mishandlings leave angry customers feeling ignored and this can make them feel resentful. An angry customer feeling this way is even more likely to complain to the wrong person.
Reasonable? Probably not. Easily explained? Most definitely. Called for? As far as the complaints about the price drop goes, yes. It's only 20%, it's only menial to you and me, but to some players it's important and to everybody it's unfair.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think really the only thing you and I are in disagreement on is the "unfair" aspect.
Oh....and with holding information can be frustrating...but in the end, it is the way things just world in the real world.
You come under fire if people think you know something and if you do you have to skirt around it and wait it all out....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I think really the only thing you and I are in disagreement on is the "unfair" aspect.
Hm, I suppose.
I have to admit, this is all very over-hyped for a 20% drop in DQ prices, I'd agree with that. However, it is unfair to everybody on our version of the game for one reason: we don't actually have a botting problem that deserves any kind of punishment so game-wide. That's the only way in which this is unfair.
It's easy enough to find some other way to fill up that 20%, and I don't even grind that much anyway (although, I used to on my venomancer.) And if it was easy grinding, then I can always just grind for a bit longer if I have the time.
Doesn't change the fact I should have to suffer if I do decide to grind just because somebody else on a different version of the game decided they were going to bot.
Kind of like... um... classroom theory. Let's say one class of students is badly behaved on the playground. To keep it comparable let's say they kick the footballs at other children. Rather than deal with the class, the school just bans all footballs for all students in that school. It's not a fair call for the other classes and other students who never had that problem.
Perhaps you view it differently, and I'm a little curious as to how. o_O I appreciate the annoyance because it's so easy to get around it, that I most definitely understand, but I'm not seeing how the punishment itself isn't unfair on everybody - even if not everybody uses DQ drops as income.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Kind of like... um... classroom theory. Let's say one class of students is badly behaved on the playground. To keep it comparable let's say they kick the footballs at other children. Rather than deal with the class, the school just bans all footballs for all students in that school. It's not a fair call for the other classes and other students who never had that problem.
Funny thing is that it really goes that way in real life too.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »Funny thing is that it really goes that way in real life too.
^ Exactly
Punish the masses to deal with a few?
So is life in SO many respects.....
In response as well....I do not feel that it is necessarily a "punishment." Nothing is being taken away, just changed. Also, something is being "looked into" to at least some form of rest to those who have an issue.
Maybe it is because I look at this from a business stand point...you cannot please everyone. Besides, liken it to the Pack issue.
It was QQQQQ all the way and now....*shrugs* it is just part of the game....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »Funny thing is that it really goes that way in real life too.
I would know, having been a support teacher for quite some time in real life. I also got to deal with the children's complaints afterwards, and it would not stop for weeks on end, because there's always the one or two children who, say, want to play football.
However, this is a game. People play it to get away from real life, not end up in scenarios that emulate it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »I would know, having been a support teacher for quite some time in real life. I also got to deal with the children's complaints afterwards, and it would not stop for weeks on end, because there's always the one or two children who, say, want to play football.
However, this is a game. People play it to get away from real life, not end up in scenarios that emulate it.
Regardless though....real life will always follow in some way.
If may be a game but real life runs it b:surrender
---> also, I am sure the kids got over it or a compromise/solution was reached [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Real life will follow it in some way, but ending up with situations emulating such a scenario isn't pleasant for player, or people who have to deal with the outcry. Especially when there were other solutions to take that would have worked better. (And I hate to say, 20% DQ price drop will fix nothing. Botters are... bots. They don't care how long they're put to work. Another reason why so many people are complaining - now they get to wait until the next "bot fix" for CN comes and screws their game up because these people can't be bothered to take actual action that might even work semi-decently.)
Compromise was rarely reached in the situations I ended up in. They stopped talking to me about it when I ignored them and walked away from them because their complaints were fruitless as I certainly wasn't able to change anything and I had no authority to go and ask for changes on their behalf, either. (Which would be where I and the GMs differ; the GMs do have power and authority to go to a higher figure on behalf of the player base. As a simple support teacher, I had no such ability. )[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Just because the GM's can go to a "higher authority" does not mean they get answers.
It is a circular argument.
Oh...and I do not care who you are in whatever situation, everyone has a voice.
You just have to know the appropriate way to use it and the avenues with which to use it. Also, you have to make sure it reaches the right people, not those who are representatives of those people.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Why am I not surprised?-Closing the old thread
First : closing the pool where 93% of the players said they were against the change
Second : closing the thread where numerous people complained about the change
Coming next : closing this thread in the hope people will forget all about this.
GG PWI.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh0 -
Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why am I not surprised?
First : closing the pool where 93% of the players said they were against the change
Second : closing the thread where numerous people complained about the change
Coming next : closing this thread in the hope people will forget all about this.
GG PWI.
Haha, this thread actually gives us solution why the nerf happened. Well it doesnt make much sense to compare a simple game with real life but anyway. People seem to deal with it pretty well here.
I think PWE managed to delay and weaken the rage with giving us 2x drops for two weeks.0 -
Incarnata - Harshlands wrote: »That sounds like a tempting problem.
First, you need to make the sign-up process difficult to bot.
Second, you need to have a way of retroactively undoing the damage that a bot does.
Third, you need some statistical techniques to identify "bot-like" behavior, and cheats.
Fourth, you need some way of undoing the damage that a ban does for improperly banned real people. This does not have to be instant, but it does have to be well known (so that people will be willing to put up with being banned improperly). It can not be so good, however, that people want to get banned.
You might also need some way of dealing with probable bots that is not a ban (something like safety lock, maybe).
Anyways, this should hypothetically let you find the bot infections and trace their roots and get rid of them...
LOL! That sounds like a nice Christmas List. I wonder what your list looked like from when you were 10...I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
PWI has in the past given server specific rewards with 2x coin and 2x drops......
Solution.... make it permanent
PW China still has their -20% and we have our coin back0 -
PWI has in the past given server specific rewards with 2x coin and 2x drops......
Solution.... make it permanent
I dunno but sound like inflation . . b:surrender
Let's say we can get 10k from selling dq to npc before 20% cut
After 20% cut we got 8k from selling dq to npc
After 2x we can get double (16k) or more than double.
Market also seem going to be filled with tons of high lv mats from instances. b:pleased
Hm wait i am confused . . these may cause higher lv items cheaper while people gaining more money because 2x drops.
Wait . . more people with money = more golds wanted = gold price inflation . . b:sad
Someone help me b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I dunno but sound like inflation . . b:surrender
Let's say we can get 10k from selling dq to npc before 20% cut
After 20% cut we got 8k from selling dq to npc
After 2x we can get double (16k) or more than double.
Market also seem going to be filled with tons of high lv mats from instances. b:pleased
Hm wait i am confused . . these may cause higher lv items cheaper while people gaining more money because 2x drops.
Wait . . more people with money = more golds wanted = gold price inflation . . b:sad
Someone help me b:surrender
they can make that 2x any number they want ......... to not have inflation and still not punish us for PW China's bots0 -
Actually, they can't. At least, not unless PWI convinces the Devs to customize the code just for us, and the devs are already unwilling to customize the PWI code by removing -20% DQ prices.they can make that 2x any number they want ......... to not have inflation and still not punish us for PW China's bots
The options to turn on 2X XP, 2X Spirit, and 2X Drops are already built into the game, and the GMs can turn them on or off on-the-fly. They can choose to turn only 1 or 2 of them on if they want, but they can't change them from 2X to any other multiplier. (Note, though, that 2X Spirit is actually only 1.5X Spirit, but that's beside the point.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, they can't. At least, not unless PWI convinces the Devs to customize the code just for us, and the devs are already unwilling to customize the PWI code by removing -20% DQ prices.
The options to turn on 2X XP, 2X Spirit, and 2X Drops are already built into the game, and the GMs can turn them on or off on-the-fly. They can choose to turn only 1 or 2 of them on if they want, but they can't change them from 2X to any other multiplier. (Note, though, that 2X Spirit is actually only 1.5X Spirit, but that's beside the point.)
the point still remains they can make our coin drop more to compensate for the lower dq prices and still leave PWI China with the -20%0 -
MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I dunno but sound like inflation . . b:surrender
Let's say we can get 10k from selling dq to npc before 20% cut
After 20% cut we got 8k from selling dq to npc
After 2x we can get double (16k) or more than double.
Market also seem going to be filled with tons of high lv mats from instances. b:pleased
Hm wait i am confused . . these may cause higher lv items cheaper while people gaining more money because 2x drops.
Wait . . more people with money = more golds wanted = gold price inflation . . b:sad
Someone help me b:surrender
Bolded: I'd enjoy that. Especially if the gold hit the 450k mark like it did when tiger packs first came out ^.^0 -
While they're working on the compensation for DQ nerf, could they also do something about the Tiger Badge quest and the Mysterious Merchant prices?
I understand that they are so high as to create a coin sink in CN's inflated economy but they're not effective here as a coin sink due to being too high
I mean really? Who's going to pay an NPC 14 million coin + chips for a Glaives of Divinity mold?
And the costs of the Tiger Badge Quest far outweigh the gains.
Please, fix these prices so that they can be effective coin sinks.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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