Psychic Soulburn

NightRage - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

??

I'm talking Diminished Vigor here, not Soulburn.
As far as I recall, Soulburn has a 30 second cooldown. I've been defending Diminished because I can't imagine the skill being useful with a 90 second cooldown that prevents a Psy from using empowered vigor AND can get purified in the blink of an eye. If it is changed to get hit by purified, it needs a shorter cooldown. Soulburn's cooldown is fine how it is and it's no issue if it becomes purifiable.

Well, this thread is about Soulburn lol (check the title).

As far as your other buffs, I don't care as much, really.

Evga - Sanctuary

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Off topic:
It's illogical as in why psy buff and debuff is unpurgeable and unpurifiable. But it's also illogical as in why psychic skills have cooldown share for both buff and debuff, along with its long cooldown (3min - 10min). Unless they remove the share cooldown and reduce the cooldown, I would say it will stay unchange. Again, fighting a whole army of 80 peeps with soul of vengeance and soul of silence...AoE, any1?

that is the best! mana charm **** for every aoe like nobody business.

A/ - Harshlands9

I wasn't paying attention when a psy friend of mine cast soulburn on me after a bh. I committed suicide when I used the town teleport skill b:chuckle

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

??

I'm talking Diminished Vigor here, not Soulburn.
As far as I recall, Soulburn has a 30 second cooldown. I've been defending Diminished because I can't imagine the skill being useful with a 90 second cooldown that prevents a Psy from using empowered vigor AND can get purified in the blink of an eye. If it is changed to get hit by purified, it needs a shorter cooldown. Soulburn's cooldown is fine how it is and it's no issue if it becomes purifiable.

My mistake, I assumed it was soulburn since this thread is about it. I've no idea about Diminished Vigor and its effectiveness but yeah 90 sec cooldown is kinda high especially since it is shared with Empowered Vigor (right?).

Sint - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

My mistake, I assumed it was soulburn since this thread is about it. I've no idea about Diminished Vigor and its effectiveness but yeah 90 sec cooldown is kinda high especially since it is shared with Empowered Vigor (right?).

true. but in the context of a DD skill wich makes you pot slower and puts your charm tick several seconds farther away, this is murder. psy dmg is among the highest in game, and this makes you tank it for an additional 3 seconds.

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear

_Anemone_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

someone already said it. soulburn would be pointless if it was purifiable. also it only does damage if u hit the person who cast it. it isn't actually a 'debuff' as it isn't affecting your stats in anyway. i

LOL, learn our class.

Longknife - Harshlands

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LOL, learn our class.

.

I have to admit, the thing is pretty damn powerful. Did some tests today with an 84 cleric (I'm 74) and she was really curious about it. I'd won a duel and she was asking what did all that damage (the exact damage was 1380) and I showed her. Then she was trying to think of a way to get around it, and every attempt failed. Only solution is to not cast for 8 seconds.

The only advice I can offer people who hate Soulburn is to hit as hard as you freaking can with one good hit. Or run like hell when it's cast. Otherwise Soulburn will just outdamage the attacker.

Kinohki - Lost City

From what I understand about Soulburn and how it works, theres on very viable counter to it I've not seen anyone list. It's an apothecary pot. I forget the name of it, but it makes you immune to ALL damage for 8 seconds. This eliminates the threat of soulburn entirely unless it can one shot you. If it damages you when you pot, well you take 1 hit. After that, the pot triggers and for 8 seconds you're unable to move or attack, but guess what. You survive the soulburn onslaught.

It was the same with the nix fleshream when people thought it was overpowered (still is imo) but what did people do? Refined their gear, got higher HP and of course found ways around it via apothecary or / stun the nix etc. There are viable counters out there. People are just always too busy thinking offensively (DPSDPSPDPSPDPSKILLKILLKILL etc) that most simply don't know how to play their class to it's fullest. Psy's are powerful, but not unstoppable.

I play a sin and i consider them to be more overpowered than psys simply becaues the attack buff they get does not have any type of negative consequences for them. (Attack speed reduction doesn't affect skills) Take in account that you can spark while stealthed and you have a pretty nasty class. I heard that they're changing it so you can't spark in stealth. Hopefully that happens. It'd make my sin more fun than just stealth then pwn.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Kinohki - Lost City wrote: »

From what I understand about Soulburn and how it works, theres on very viable counter to it I've not seen anyone list. It's an apothecary pot. I forget the name of it, but it makes you immune to ALL damage for 8 seconds. This eliminates the threat of soulburn entirely unless it can one shot you. If it damages you when you pot, well you take 1 hit. After that, the pot triggers and for 8 seconds you're unable to move or attack, but guess what. You survive the soulburn onslaught.

Hahahahahaha! Wouldn't that be nice? But guess what?

It still damages you through it, like a DoT.

Any other viable solutions?

Kinohki - Lost City

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hahahahahaha! Wouldn't that be nice? But guess what?

It still damages you through it, like a DoT.

Any other viable solutions?

From what I've read, it seems it only hurts you when you attack, activate a skill or pot. Accumulated with the constant onslaught of the spells coming at you plus the damage that it hits you for upon hitting, activating abilities etc, then it'd be difficult to live through. Activating the pot would only hit you once and you'd become immune to damage for the 8 seconds, not to mention a charm tic. you can't move or attack to activate the soulburn damaging you anymore, so it'd wear off without doing any damage, and of course, the psy can't damage you with spells because you're immune to damage for the 8 seconds.

Another viable solution? Absolute domain (the freeze one, I think that's the name of it?) on the psy and then get out of dodge. Again you'll take 1 hit from soulburn in doing so. Preventing 100% of the damage is impossible, so you minimize it.

Desiree - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

It is.

/10char

You're wrong.

/not 10 char.

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hahahahahaha! Wouldn't that be nice? But guess what?

It still damages you through it, like a DoT.

Any other viable solutions?

12 second stun immune pot means you're also stunned, meaning you don't attack them. Meaning there will be no reflect damage and you aren't taking damage from normal psychic attacks. Yes, you lose the gank, but the psychic's Soulburn is on cooldown and you can freely attack them normally as it it were not a gank.

Korg - Lost City

I'm really not sure how to approach this. Should i be taking the side of the psy with the incredibly OP'd Reflect ability.
Or the Archer who wants to purify this reflect with his trispark and one shot the psy.

Although..... wizzies dont have such a tool to there disposal, they do have a def buff which might be considered unfair by some.
I have never played a wizzard so i am not sure how powerful a maxed earth barrier is when it comes to p def.

idk b:sad

NightRage - Raging Tide

Lol, you don't have to worry about me one-shotting a psychic. You see, white voodoo is overpowered. That coupled with the use of vigor and Psychic Will (I think) they just tank my hits for 1K each. (Or 0 with Psychic Will)

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Psychic can also AOE stun AND damage quite a bit with a cast time of a total 2.0 seconds (1.0 channel, 1.0 cast) and only 1 spark, for 6 seconds. I wouldn't worry about an archer one-shotting that psychic.

Quilue - Sanctuary

what he means is that you eat a sutra orb (or God forbid, an ironguard) and not do anything else until it wears off, which would be the same thing as not do anything until it wears off except you're not taking additional damage from the Psy's end.

@Korg
you speak as if triple spark from any other class wouldn't be a threat, nope, only archers.

you also speak as if people can get 399 chi from anywhere, that an archer will always have 399 chi. sorry, we're not assassins. triple spark is expensive to use (unless you're a sin) and has horrible consequences in a fight if wasted.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol, you don't have to worry about me one-shotting a psychic. You see, white voodoo is overpowered. That coupled with the use of vigor and Psychic Will (I think) they just tank my hits for 1K each. (Or 0 with Psychic Will)

You are exactly right that white voodoo can be a great help to charmed Psychics to allow us to survive archers.

But in all reality the only way I usually beat archers is by doing one of 2 things.

1. They have no idea how to fight against a psychic and I win from there own inexperience.
(This is most of the people I've encountered so far.)

2. I am prepared for the archers onslaught, Meaning I have all buffs up, 3 sparks and I am sitting in white voodoo.(This often doesn't happen)

With this I use Earth vector to stun, Soulburn while they're stunned then follow up with changing stances to black voodoo and psychic Will right after for physical immunity.
This is best case scenario for me that also leaves the archer with few options.(Considering were about equal geared)

Now the only problem with this is it does not happen very often.
And even with 1 less spark in this same situation would leave me very susceptible to a quick death or even 1 shot.
(With no Soulburn I may not have the power to out tick his charm but with no shield I would probably die before soulburn killed him. But what if I stayed in white voodoo and used soulburn!? well then all they would have to do is sit there and wait till it wore off since I would have no means of out ticking there charm in white voodoo.)

Now I'm not saying psychics are weak by any means. Soulburn can indeed be a wicked spell.
But just realize how many things need to be in place and how many things could be working against us to achieve this so called "op state".



And btw with a spell like a Wizards BIDS or BT that whole above paragraph could have been null with a lucky crit.


^^

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

1. They have no idea how to fight against a psychic and I win from there own inexperience.
(This is most of the people I've encountered so far.)

Care to enlighten us what's the best course an "experienced" archer should take?

Really, having to resort to apoth items is like admitting it's overpowered.

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

And btw with a spell like a Wizards BIDS or BT that whole above paragraph could have been null with a lucky crit.

BIDS = 5.6 sec total cast time
BT = 5.8 sec total cast time
MS = 6.4 sec total cast time

Earth Vector = 2 sec total cast time

Korg - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Korg
you speak as if triple spark from any other class wouldn't be a threat, nope, only archers.

you also speak as if people can get 399 chi from anywhere, that an archer will always have 399 chi. sorry, we're not assassins. triple spark is expensive to use (unless you're a sin) and has horrible consequences in a fight if wasted.

sorry didnt mean it that way, i was just reffering to what was being discussed in this thread not with every class.



b:surrender

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Care to enlighten us what's the best course an "experienced" archer should take?

Really, having to resort to apoth items is like admitting it's overpowered.

BIDS = 5.6 sec total cast time
BT = 5.8 sec total cast time
MS = 6.4 sec total cast time

Earth Vector = 2 sec total cast time

Indeed Earth Vector has a 2 seconds cast. But unless you have horrible gear Earth Vector will not 1 shot you, like BIDS or BT could.
Earth Vector is merely a step on the path of killing someone.
(Like I said before, gear and level permitting)

If you use apoth pots in a fight that's your own bushiness. ( Would definitely help, but not needed.)

As far as what steps an archer should take when fighting Psychics entirely depends on what the Psychic does. There are many strategies against many different scenarios when fighting all classes.

In complete and all honesty though it usually comes down to which class gets the drop on who, at least when it comes to Psys and archers. b:chuckle

NightRage - Raging Tide

It would be nice to think that, unfortunately, that is never the case.

Longknife - Harshlands

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

Indeed Earth Vector has a 2 seconds cast. But unless you have horrible gear Earth Vector will not 1 shot you, like BIDS or BT could.
Earth Vector is merely a step on the path of killing someone.
(Like I said before, gear and level permitting)

Earth Vector itself won't kill you, but it'll sure as hell leave you wide open.

6 second stun. That's enough to get two spells off for a Psy. Most people can only take about 3-4 hits, from my experience.

To top that off, if the Psychic has full chi, then in the case of physical attackers, they'll have to endure another 8 seconds of being absolutely helpless while Psychic Will is on.

Then comes the third spark, which is Soulburn.

Finally, Soul of Stunning. One hit from them means at least a 3 second stun from a level 78+ Psy.


Only suggestion I can give there is for BM's. Turn on Marrow magic, prepare to get stunned (Earth vector is simply too fast, and we also have Soul of stunning), use Roar of pride to cancel out Psychic Will and then stun before Soulburn gets off. Otherwise they're toast.

Barbs, just Armageddon immediately. Unless if the Psy has Soul of Retaliation on (looks like a bubble around the Psy); then you wanna hit them with something like Stomp of the Beast king, THEN Armageddon. Hitting Soul of Retaliation with Armageddon will just **** you up.





Like I said, to beat a Psychic you gotta hit them hard and fast. I don't think that's so hard in PK or a war setting; there a Psy may still be powerful, but the moment it's caught off guard, it's going down. In a duel setting however, Psys seem pretty damn hard to beat.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Like I said, to beat a Psychic you gotta hit them hard and fast. I don't think that's so hard in PK or a war setting; there a Psy may still be powerful, but the moment it's caught off guard, it's going down. In a duel setting however, Psys seem pretty damn hard to beat.

So you're admitting that to beat a psychic, they have to make a mistake and it's basically an accident?

Longknife - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

So you're admitting that to beat a psychic, they have to make a mistake and it's basically an accident?

I wouldn't call it a mistake; anyone can be caught off guard out in the open or in a TW.

My point is more that a Psychic has horrible horrible defense and HP, but it has plenty alternative defense lines at it's disposal and still hits hard.
So a Psychic will go down pretty quick when fighting two people, will go down quick if it doesn't get the first hit in and will go down quick if it's low on chi. Keep in mind that our three main defense lines (Earth Vector for Stun, Psychic Will for Physical damage immunity and Soulburn for soulforce damage) all require one spark.

The issue with a Psychic in a duel is that the Psy always has a chance to get the first hit, since Earth Vector is a ranged stun skill that casts incredibly fast. Besides that, a Psychic will always have a chance to charge up his chi.
For example, a BM vs. a Psychic. In a duel the Psy will stun the BM with earth vector, followed by Psychic will when the stun wears off, the BM will probably be hit by soul of stunning, and then there's Soulburn if it comes down to it. Glacial shard can also immobilize. If it's in another setting though, then the Psy likely won't get off Earth vector first, nor will it have Soul of Stunning on (very short duration and/or too MP costly to keep on). All it takes is the Psy getting hit once or twice and it's over. Let's say the Psy gets jumped by the BM with one spark. BM gets the first hit in, then Psy casts Psychic Will. Well, Roar of Pride will cancel out Psychic Will's duration. Afterwards, the Psychic either needs to cast Soul of Stunning or Glacial Shards and get away, but the BM has good chances to outdamage the Psy or to re-stun him before the Psy gets either off.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I wouldn't call it a mistake; anyone can be caught off guard out in the open or in a TW.

My point is more that a Psychic has horrible horrible defense and HP, but it has plenty alternative defense lines at it's disposal and still hits hard.
So a Psychic will go down pretty quick when fighting two people, will go down quick if it doesn't get the first hit in and will go down quick if it's low on chi. Keep in mind that our three main defense lines (Earth Vector for Stun, Psychic Will for Physical damage immunity and Soulburn for soulforce damage) all require one spark.

The issue with a Psychic in a duel is that the Psy always has a chance to get the first hit, since Earth Vector is a ranged stun skill that casts incredibly fast. Besides that, a Psychic will always have a chance to charge up his chi.
For example, a BM vs. a Psychic. In a duel the Psy will stun the BM with earth vector, followed by Psychic will when the stun wears off, the BM will probably be hit by soul of stunning, and then there's Soulburn if it comes down to it. Glacial shard can also immobilize. If it's in another setting though, then the Psy likely won't get off Earth vector first, nor will it have Soul of Stunning on (very short duration and/or too MP costly to keep on). All it takes is the Psy getting hit once or twice and it's over. Let's say the Psy gets jumped by the BM with one spark. BM gets the first hit in, then Psy casts Psychic Will. Well, Roar of Pride will cancel out Psychic Will's duration. Afterwards, the Psychic either needs to cast Soul of Stunning or Glacial Shards and get away, but the BM has good chances to outdamage the Psy or to re-stun him before the Psy gets either off.

Any good bm will use bodhi. /Your strat

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

BIDS = 5.6 sec total cast time
BT = 5.8 sec total cast time
MS = 6.4 sec total cast time

Earth Vector = 2 sec total cast time

Sutra seal ulti (at 89+).

NightRage - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I wouldn't call it a mistake; anyone can be caught off guard out in the open or in a TW.

But still, you're saying we have to catch one that is totally unprepared without any chi. That doesn't happen.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

But still, you're saying we have to catch one that is totally unprepared without any chi. That doesn't happen.

He's not saying the "only" way to kill them is to catch them with the pants down.
(Although Psys don't run fast with pants around there ankles)
He's merely saying the Psychic would have to be prepared to "own" an archer.

Yes catching a Psychic with no chi and afk would definitely kill them, But catching a Psychic in black voodoo regardless of spark amount would kill them too. Or even if they do see you it's usually game over if you start attacking/stunning from outside our range.

Like I've said before, I've been killed tons of times by plenty of "good" archers.
(Even in white voodoo)
I've also killed many archers as well though.

All in all it can be frustrating fighting a good Psy no question, but unfortunately psys get just as angry getting insta gibed by archers.

Anyways off too work!
(Gotta pay for those charms some how) b:chuckle

Quilue - Sanctuary

how are you getting 1 shot by archers, seriously?

if you can muster up at least 60% physical reduction and say, 5k hp buffed at 9x, an archer with 12k base attack wielding a +10 CV would not be able to 1 shot you with a fully charged take aim crit.

i mean, it's pretty damn easy to get that kind of stats buffed compared with getting a +10 CV. a lot of clerics at 9x have wayy better defensive stats than that, so psychics can't be worse off.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

In a duel setting however, Psys seem pretty damn hard to beat.

this is pretty true. The only time my psy got beat in a duel is against a sin that made my skill miss and before i got psy will. Every other class iv been able to beat pretty easily, with or without chi in a duel. I dont use pots, apoth or genie when i duel on my psy. We have skills for almost all situations regarding duel fights.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

how are you getting 1 shot by archers, seriously?

if you can muster up at least 60% physical reduction and say, 5k hp buffed at 9x, an archer with 12k base attack wielding a +10 CV would not be able to 1 shot you with a fully charged take aim crit.

i mean, it's pretty damn easy to get that kind of stats buffed compared with getting a +10 CV. a lot of clerics at 9x have wayy better defensive stats than that, so psychics can't be worse off.

I suppose the caliber archers I usually fight are pretty top quality.
With +12 bows that can very easily crit me for 8k.
(I'm also in almost all the best gear for my level)

And yes our defenses are much lower than other arcane classes.(Mostly because of black voodoo) We do have psychic will which can be awesome, but when caught off guard, out of sparks, stunned or one shotted it can't help us.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

this is pretty true. The only time my psy got beat in a duel is against a sin that made my skill miss and before i got psy will. Every other class iv been able to beat pretty easily, with or without chi in a duel. I dont use pots, apoth or genie when i duel on my psy. We have skills for almost all situations regarding duel fights.

True. Psychics rock in duels.

Without the use of enemy charms and the fact that your always prepared in a duel makes psys rock in duels.

Just wish real pvp was more like duels. b:chuckle