Psychic Soulburn

Linwiz - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Did you even read my argument? You didn't even counter my points.


My point was that NOBODY would ever use Diminished Vigor if it could be purified. The reason is because Diminished Vigor also prevents the Psy from casting Empowered Vigor. Who in their right mind would choose to waste an empowered vigor on themselves for a diminished vigor that might not even stick around for more than ten seconds? The skill's usage would just be limited to fights where clerics weren't present.

If they were to make diminished purifiable, then I think they'd also want to allow Psys to use both diminished and empowered at the same time. That in itself though might be unbalanced...

Alright going by that same logic

Heaven's Flame shouldnt be purifiable because no one would use it

Amplify Damage Shouldnt be either because it would never get used

oh and dont forget about Extreme poision dont want to get rid of that oh noes you just waisted genie stamina on something they purified!!!!

Oooh what about Bramble hood, yeah that costs 2 sparks and can be purged OH NOESSSSSSSSSS I WASTED MAH 2 SPARKS

OOH OOH OOH what about triple spark, guess what that can be too, and it costs guess what 3 SPARKS!!!!!!

Hmm what else, ooh I know Invoke the spirit, that costs 2 sparks and does damn near the same thing as your white voodoo (minus the atk reduction) and it can be purged just fine

Stoping saying your cash shopped character isnt op and take a look at other classes

Says it right on the cleric skill purify, DISPELS ALL NEGATIVE STATUS EFFECTS, there is no exception on that

and for purge, REMOVES ALL POSITIVE STATUS EFFECTS, again there are no exceptions stated on that skill

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

I love how the main reason that is now being thrown out for SB NOT being OP is that OMG im so squishy if i dont have this I would die all the time.

Your a magic casting class, Guess what hot shot we are supposed to DIE , and alot.

This small point just proves my long standing thought that , Psychic is for people that couldnt **** it as a mage. Sure there is the 1% of players on psys that damn well know how to play the class , but 99% of them are just there cus they cant handle a mage.

Longknife - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

What part of "Remove all negative effects" is ambiguous to you? Is Diminshed Vigor a negative effect? If the answer is yes then purify should be able to remove it.

You act like psychics are the only classes with expensive debuffs. BMs have a 2-spark debuff called "Heaven's Flame". Archers have a lousy 2-spark debuff called "Stormrage Eagleon". Those debuffs can be purified since they are "negative effects".

These new tideborn classes are buggy though and not well thought out.

Yes, and I addressed this:

Both of those debuffs are accompanied by DAMAGE. The reason I'd be iffy to do the same with Diminished vigor is because the skill is a debuff and a debuff alone; not to mention one that requires the Psy to sacrifice a buff. It's just way too much stacked against Diminished, and with it being purifiable, it'd never be used. That's my argument.

Listen, I'm not saying people who want it purifiable don't have a good argument either. I'm just a little annoyed when you respond to my posts like I'm an idiot, and the way you respond heavily implies you didn't even READ my posts.


Anyways, forget debuffs accompanied by damage. Think pure debuffs. That's diminished and Soulburn. If I were to compare them to something, it's the veno curses. Now, are the veno curses purifiable? Can a veno immediately follow up one curse with another, should the first be purified off?
That's the reason I'd be iffy about making Diminished purifiable. It's sole purpose is to act as a debuff AND it prevents another rather useful skill from being used. Heaven's Flame does damage either way and doesn't prevent anything else from being casted. A veno curse doesn't shut on a 90 second cooldown for one of their buffs. I'm simply arguing that I see the skill being neglected into obscurity should it be purifiable.
If veno curses however are purifiable, then I'd also argue that it's only fair for Diminished to be the same. Then I'd rather see them tweak the cooldown or cast restrictions on diminished so that it could still be used a fair amount.


And to answer another post of yours, yes Soulburn ticks whenever the target casts. Won several duels against clerics who thought they could taunt me with heals that way; Soulburn canceled out the heals, leaving me to freely cast any spell I want to.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Well the topic went a bit too much in the QQ-area.
Lol @ the "purify HF" - argument. Who purifys that? Using triple spark would do it, but u are invincible for the same amount of time anyways, so there is no point in that and I've never seen a cleric who uses purify in that situation.
But w/e aren't pp able to read?
OP was about:
Soulburn can't be purified by triple spark. So for me as a psy it wouldn't matter if it can be purified or not (except LOLWTF?-sins when they die using shadow escape) cuz I run/pop psychic will anyways when an Archer triple sparks and I can make him wasting 3 sparks via using that skill. Not bad either, so "nerf" Soulburn pls b:cute

Oh and lol 2 @ the post above (edit: fu Longknife, ninja poster >: btw are u using that name on other forums 2? A picture of a guy with longer hair kicking a kid statue pops out in my mind xD), seems like ppl like to bring their personal experiences and use them as fact.
Magic classes aren't supposed to die, they are supposed to deal dmg - how can this be done while being dead? It's just that AA classes = squishie, so it's a counterpart to their high dmg.

Now I wanna hear some opinions regarding the OP, not those QQ pls don't nerf or QQ pls nerf - opinions.
Does it matter that much if that 8 seconds effect can be purified or not? I think it wouldn't and even if it would - I don't really care since it's not the skill which makes a psychic a psychic.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes, and I addressed this:

Both of those debuffs are accompanied by DAMAGE. The reason I'd be iffy to do the same with Diminished vigor is because the skill is a debuff and a debuff alone; not to mention one that requires the Psy to sacrifice a buff. It's just way too much stacked against Diminished, and with it being purifiable, it'd never be used. That's my argument.

Listen, I'm not saying people who want it purifiable don't have a good argument either. I'm just a little annoyed when you respond to my posts like I'm an idiot, and the way you respond heavily implies you didn't even READ my posts.


Anyways, forget debuffs accompanied by damage. Think pure debuffs. That's diminished and Soulburn. If I were to compare them to something, it's the veno curses. Now, are the veno curses purifiable? Can a veno immediately follow up one curse with another, should the first be purified off?
That's the reason I'd be iffy about making Diminished purifiable. It's sole purpose is to act as a debuff AND it prevents another rather useful skill from being used. Heaven's Flame does damage either way and doesn't prevent anything else from being casted. A veno curse doesn't shut on a 90 second cooldown for one of their buffs. I'm simply arguing that I see the skill being neglected into obscurity should it be purifiable.
If veno curses however are purifiable, then I'd also argue that it's only fair for Diminished to be the same. Then I'd rather see them tweak the cooldown or cast restrictions on diminished so that it could still be used a fair amount.


And to answer another post of yours, yes Soulburn ticks whenever the target casts. Won several duels against clerics who thought they could taunt me with heals that way; Soulburn canceled out the heals, leaving me to freely cast any spell I want to.

Gawd quit acting like soul burn or whatever is such an expensive skill. I have a lvl 100 skill called Bloodvow, 25% damage amp, 18% HP debuff, Metal Dot, 1 spark, 5 minute cooldown, all of which is completely removed by a triple spark. Every debuff in the game is removed by triple spark / purify including veno ones. Everything that is but these new psychic ones. It's a bug that will be fixed right after the chinese devs fix magic shell.

EDIT: I should be nicer. I don't think you're stupid, you type in coherent sentences and are able to convey your argument. I just think what you say is stupid. You think as if a 90s cool down is the most in the game. You cited similarity to veno debuffs but all of those are removed by triple spark. The comparison to venos is apt since they have a class of debuffs in which only one can be active at a time.

Motoko - Raging Tide

There are 3 Psychics with Endgame gear on RT, and all 3 dominate PK Theres Fap ^ Who if I had to guess would say he has ~13k soulforce? Gonja with ~16k soulforce, then theres LuciferV with ~24k soulforce -_-.

Not sure exactly how soulforce works with soul of silence expect that it increases its % chance. It seems that against 24k soulforce I get silenced about every 6 hits. Psychics are not squishy... when you combine White Vodoo with soul of silence... I have more trouble killing a 24k soulforce psychic than I do a 20k HP barb.

One thing that Night is a little off about is that Genie skills and Potions do not trigger soulburn (pretty sure, I've 1v1ed the best Psy's on the server dozens of times). But any player skill will, whether it be a buff or sprint or heal etc etc (including demon spark). Also soulbrun deals damage through invulnerability, sometimes I still triple spark just for the 3 seconds of invuln, if I dont have the genie energy to AD.

Triple spark should definitely purify it, psychics are a very very powerful class even if soulburn could be purified, but they are straight up broken as is. (INB4 omg BM using fists talking about balance, rabblerabble.)

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a bug that will be fixed right after the chinese devs fix magic shell.

Thanks for giving the community so much hope of a fix b:surrender
[/sarcasm]

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »

There are 3 Psychics with Endgame gear on RT, and all 3 dominate PK Theres Fap ^ Who if I had to guess would say he has ~13k soulforce? Gonja with ~16k soulforce, then theres LuciferV with ~24k soulforce -_-.

15k b:surrender
And I don't know what u consider as endgame gear but I'm still missing ~70% of it >:
Idc that much about PK yet, RT is still low on pkin ppl - too boring yet and too many of them pk before they get decent equips, and those who already got (LuciferV) dominate nearly everything.

Fist/Claw BMs are a pain in the **** too >: Can't make any experienced BM hit me while having soulburn casted on him (except with tide spirit) and bms like rem (and u too I guess) break even in white voodoo through my charm (24 hits in 5 seconds.. ). So basically if a psy shows an opening in his soulburn - psychic will - retalation/stunning timing he's dead

eww but we're completely off-topic, I blame motoko.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

Well I can't help you with the sins, but with psys just use a move called Aim shot and 1 shot them.

Charms don't help much there.

this is not realistic against 9x opponents. seriously. i mean...it can bypass charm but flat out 1 shot...maybe if i could triple spark in stealth...

TigerLily - Lost City

How much dmg does soulburn deal tho O_O

I never meet a scary high lvl psychics, we dont have them here b:surrender

I understand the dmg from Soulburn is based on Soulforce but i dont complete get the formula. Is it like, if you have 15k soulforce thats always the dmg the target will suffer if he makes a move with the curse on him? Obviously there is a 75% pvp-reduction on top of that, so 15k Soulforce would be around 3.7k dmg each time you:

pop a pvp-pot
spark
use a skill
use any form of action - like sets up a cat shop or digs up a tulips b:avoid
use a genie skill


Just doesn't seem to leave many choices for you beside just standing there for 8 sec and charm tank - or run away w/o using a speed skill/speed pots/holy path. Or am i totally lost b:surrender

Is the dmg affected by you defense lvl, i mean many players have ridiculously high defense lvl from full socketed Jade of Steady Defense and grade 15 neck/belt. Does that reduce the dmg you receive from soulburn?

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

From what i know there is NO pvp reduction on soulburn but i could be wrong

Sint - Harshlands

Anri_Rose - Archosaur wrote: »

From what i know there is NO pvp reduction on soulburn but i could be wrong

you are wrong, if by pvp reduction you mean the 75%. if that were true, i'd 1shot myself against any psy capable of casting soulburn.


as far as i know, shooting a psy my lvl while having soulburn on me might still get fairly close to a 1shot (2,5k hp rofl)

Sint - Harshlands

attempted to delete.


random double post ftw

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

Well thank goodness for that small amount of fortune , im guessing with out it we'd all be one shot , also when i said that thing about squishies dieing alot, i didnt mean our job is to die,

No duh our job is to nuke the hell out of **** , but you cant expect to have a high survival rate and get to be a huge DD.

Longknife - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gawd quit acting like soul burn or whatever is such an expensive skill. I have a lvl 100 skill called Bloodvow, 25% damage amp, 18% HP debuff, Metal Dot, 1 spark, 5 minute cooldown, all of which is completely removed by a triple spark. Every debuff in the game is removed by triple spark / purify including veno ones. Everything that is but these new psychic ones. It's a bug that will be fixed right after the chinese devs fix magic shell.

EDIT: I should be nicer. I don't think you're stupid, you type in coherent sentences and are able to convey your argument. I just think what you say is stupid. You think as if a 90s cool down is the most in the game. You cited similarity to veno debuffs but all of those are removed by triple spark. The comparison to venos is apt since they have a class of debuffs in which only one can be active at a time.

Lemme just try to put it this way...

If it were up to me, I would make Diminished Vigor removable by debuffs, but I would reduce it's cooldown. Say 30 seconds or something. As it stands now, I rarely see myself using the thing if it causes a 90 second cooldown to jump in on two skills; one of them that I'd like to have on me.

Soulburn do the same, and at the same time, I think they should fix that it hits the person every time they do anything. I doubt anyone would ever use purify on it outside of duels, but hey whatever.


Now does Purge remove the Soul of ______ buffs? That, I'd be 100% against. Those things have friggin ten minute cooldowns, and it'd be an absolute pain to lose those just because you ran into a veno. One could also make the arguement that they're half-debuffs, since you'll lose a nice chunk of MP every time they cast; it's funny they're target buffs cause I've never come across anyone who wanted them. I always use them for myself.

So I guess my problem is far more with the epic cooldowns Psys have. Our debuffs don't work like a venos, where they can cast one as long as the person doesn't already have another one; ours run on strict timers that always last the same amount of time, no matter what happens. Same goes for our buffs. One of the reasons hitting another player with Soul of Vengeance is such a pain is because you CANNOT get rid of it for ten minutes. It's there to stay no matter what. We don't get to decide when our buffs can be cast, the game does. So yeah, it'd be a super pain in the **** if all this stuff could be wiped off by a skill that be casted far more frequently than any of ours.

If they simply tweak our cooldown system then I'm all for tweaking how purify affects them.





And to answer TigerLily....

When I was lower leveled, I never used Soulburn cause it only reflected 300 damage and took too long to cast. My spells casted quicker and outdid it. Now I'm level 73 and have about 9000 soulforce. Tested it on an assassin yesterday and it did 1k to him. He might've been lower level or higher level, so I can't say this is the exact damage it deals, but 1k is starting to get pretty useful. I'd imagine that a person with 15000 reflects 1.5k per hit.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

How much dmg does soulburn deal tho O_O

I never meet a scary high lvl psychics, we dont have them here b:surrender

I understand the dmg from Soulburn is based on Soulforce but i dont complete get the formula. Is it like, if you have 15k soulforce thats always the dmg the target will suffer if he makes a move with the curse on him? Obviously there is a 75% pvp-reduction on top of that, so 15k Soulforce would be around 3.7k dmg each time you:

Is the dmg affected by you defense lvl, i mean many players have ridiculously high defense lvl from full socketed Jade of Steady Defense and grade 15 neck/belt. Does that reduce the dmg you receive from soulburn?

It's not exactly Soulforce = Soulburn dmg, with 15k it's about 10-11k PvE dmg and neither def lvl nor pdef/mdef reduces soulburns dmg as far as I have experienced. Don't know about pots..never tried.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

y'all

As for soulburn, it is op. A sage psychic will have 10 sec of soulburn, now beat that, make it purifiable would be reasonable. Purify will still tick you once, triple spark will still tick you once though because as I observe the effect start before my action is done (precisely after channel and before cast). It affect genie skills, player skills, normal atk, but not hp pots and apoth.

@Lily: it deal full damage ignoring def and mdef and even def level (yes, 66 def lvl still die with soulburn on). It doesn't depends on caster atk and def lvl either. the only factor determine damage: caster's soulforce

Off topic:
It's illogical as in why psy buff and debuff is unpurgeable and unpurifiable. But it's also illogical as in why psychic skills have cooldown share for both buff and debuff, along with its long cooldown (3min - 10min). Unless they remove the share cooldown and reduce the cooldown, I would say it will stay unchange. Again, fighting a whole army of 80 peeps with soul of vengeance and soul of silence...AoE, any1?

Longknife - Harshlands

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Off topic:
It's illogical as in why psy buff and debuff is unpurgeable and unpurifiable. But it's also illogical as in why psychic skills have cooldown share for both buff and debuff, along with its long cooldown (3min - 10min). Unless they remove the share cooldown and reduce the cooldown, I would say it will stay unchange. Again, fighting a whole army of 80 peeps with soul of vengeance and soul of silence...AoE, any1?

Exactly.

Psy moves being subject to purify/purge would be a huge pain for Psys, cause our cooldowns are really restricting and long. I'm all for having them be subject to the two, but for the love of God, change their cooldown timers if you're gonna do that.

volst

Try using the veno purge skill? Could be counted as a buff. b:chuckle

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

Id really like to thank two of the top psy players in the game for coming in and talking about this skill, It isnt exactly easy to step up and actually discuss something like one of your classes fave skills. Itd be the same for me if we were talking about the OPness of say Manifest virtue combined with my wellspring. (Hint hint WAY OP but at least we have to wait to 100 to get it XD)

Point being these two guys know the class at end game and if they are even saying that its a bit over bearing then we should maybe listen. As for me i never had a problem with the skill itself , its mearly its proponent use inside of dueling and pvp, is essentially a Suicide wall of sorts, especially for another magic class. I cant really think of anyway to survive taking 4k of damage everytime i do anything, not to mention they will still most likely be attacking.

Anyway thanks again guys.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Exactly.

Psy moves being subject to purify/purge would be a huge pain for Psys, cause our cooldowns are really restricting and long. I'm all for having them be subject to the two, but for the love of God, change their cooldown timers if you're gonna do that.

I also think the damage is quite high. As far as I can see this is, for the moment, designed to be a game-breaking skill, the reason it has such a long cooldown. Making it more spammable and much weaker is a much better balancing solution, because the former is just too good 1v1 (while not being very effective in, say, TW).

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Manifest Virtue is only OP'ed if you manage to get like 20k+ MP, to make it more powerful than a single spark. Wizard 100 skills are useless, and cost close to 50mil to learn.

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Manifest Virtue is only OP'ed if you manage to get like 20k+ MP, to make it more powerful than a single spark. Wizard 100 skills are useless, and cost close to 50mil to learn.

ya i know, point being its the closest we even come to that kind of stupidly OP ability and like you said ,way much coin.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Reduce the cooldowns, IDC, but just fix this broken race.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Anri_Rose - Archosaur wrote: »

ya i know, point being its the closest we even come to that kind of stupidly OP ability and like you said ,way much coin.

I'd still say combining genie elemental debuffs (Spark and the Water Debuff) with Extreme Poison and undine strike, then dropping the strongest skills of those elements on your opponent works best. Manifest Virtue is amazingly 'meh'.

Desiree - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Reduce the cooldowns, IDC, but just fix this broken race.

Patience. There is still hope

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

Patience. There is still hope

The link is full of scribbles, is there one with words b:surrender?

Longknife - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I also think the damage is quite high. As far as I can see this is, for the moment, designed to be a game-breaking skill, the reason it has such a long cooldown. Making it more spammable and much weaker is a much better balancing solution, because the former is just too good 1v1 (while not being very effective in, say, TW).

??

I'm talking Diminished Vigor here, not Soulburn.
As far as I recall, Soulburn has a 30 second cooldown. I've been defending Diminished because I can't imagine the skill being useful with a 90 second cooldown that prevents a Psy from using empowered vigor AND can get purified in the blink of an eye. If it is changed to get hit by purified, it needs a shorter cooldown. Soulburn's cooldown is fine how it is and it's no issue if it becomes purifiable.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Just throwing it out there that Invoke the spirit (Barb near invincibility button) is not to the best of my knowledge purgable.

NightRage - Raging Tide

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just throwing it out there that Invoke the spirit (Barb near invincibility button) is not to the best of my knowledge purgable.

It is.

/10char