Stop telling others how to play
Comments
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sure..JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yeah, especially since it's you that mentioned 2-3. b:chuckle
Not very bright are ya? b:bye
it s very bright to pimp out cler build and nerf heals just to be able to tank belial random hits or aoes of rangers in brimstone and refuse to use p-shell, 79, apo or genie instead.
cmon, u seriously dont see how much fail is in that thinking?
as i said before - good luck on emperor, ilusion lord or anything else that will be able to oneshot ur hp
btw insisting that herc in 2-3 is like a must..( bacause he speed up things drasticaly by -hmm- tanking 2 easiest bosses?)
you had ur point that venos 90+ should be able to slowly farm cash for herc. it s obvious that herc bring much benefit (i didnt ever argue with that) but mostly for venos
hercs usefulness in squads is way too much overrated.. ..as long it s not h-lvl veno which can own whole instance ofc..
anyway, i dont wanna write here anymore plz. i was provoked by ur troll attempts on one of my friends, sorry
in everything i wrote i was wrong and you were right. and this topic isnt about you at all. well, maybe you ofended whole server because somene didnt agree with your stereotypical ideas, but that was pve server so who cares anywayBUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
At level 69, my archer tanked her own Pyro for fb69 over both the barb and herc venos that were in the squad with me. I was also the designated tank for all the areas where there were groups of three or more mobs we didn't want to bother pulling since we had decided to do the run unwined. She was also the one to tank the three sub-bosses in there and enjoyed **** around with aggro on pretty much every regular monster on the way as well as taking the catcher role away from our barb (Aim low/stun are great). In fact, the only reason I didn't try to tank Nob is because of outside interference keeping me from being able to pay full attention. Pole, being pole, is obvious for why I didn't try to tank it.
This is, of course, not counting all the times where said archer tanked not only her own BHs over the designated "tank" class, the times she had to save the squad by becoming the main tank once the designated "tank" class died for whatever reason, the times she's gone off and tanked things that are "impossible" for archers to tank at that level, or the times tanking BHs/FBs/Treasure bosses/etc for friends that were a good deal above her level.
So, yeah... you don't need a Barb/BM to tank something on-level and it's often easier to just let the DD who can yank aggro away, keep the aggro, and stay alive do the tanking instead.
Edit: And before you ask, there was no uber CS gear involved... not to mention that refining anything to above +3 at that level (which you can do easily with mirages alone) would be too much of a waste for me to even consider it.
No i don't understand why you didn't tank pole, cleric couldn't purify? Now since you were certainly able to do your full FB69 at level 69 and not 70 like most of us lowly mortals, and to top it off tank 3 elites your own level in regular LA i must assume then that archers are the best class in the game. Seriously, i've been in runs where 8xers were having trouble. Your tanking 3 mobs probably means you could do just one with pots am i right? I mean barbs and bms can.
I guess it never ocurred to me i was wrong, as your post obviously proves. To think of all the time i've wasted in this game looking for barbs when archers could do a better job. I guess those archers waiting along with me should have said something...
I mean it's not like just any ranged class can take on Pyro, even with a cleric spam healing. And those fb69 minibosses are just so hard...
You have posted the biggest load of... win i have ever seen. Heavy Armor is now obsolete, let's all use archers for tanking. Aggro control is a thing of the past for fail scared DDs, archers should go all out, nevermind anything else, they can tank. b:pleased0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »No i don't understand why you didn't tank pole, cleric couldn't purify? Now since you were certainly able to do your full FB69 at level 69 and not 70 like most of us lowly mortals, and to top it off tank 3 elites your own level in regular LA i must assume then that archers are the best class in the game. Seriously, i've been in runs where 8xers were having trouble. Your tanking 3 mobs probably means you could do just one with pots am i right? I mean barbs and bms can.
I guess it never ocurred to me i was wrong, as your post obviously proves. To think of all the time i've wasted in this game looking for barbs when archers could do a better job. I guess those archers waiting along with me should have said something...
I mean it's not like just any ranged class can take on Pyro, even with a cleric spam healing. And those fb69 minibosses are just so hard...
You have posted the biggest load of... win i have ever seen. Heavy Armor is now obsolete, let's all use archers for tanking. Aggro control is a thing of the past for fail scared DDs, archers should go all out, nevermind anything else, they can tank. b:pleased
First and foremost, you were the one asking when to start looking for archers to replace barbs and when given one example of where an archer was able to tank something over the barb within their level range, you rejected it as being out of context due to the level difference between the archer and what was tanked. You also rejected other examples due to the gears used being "uber CS stuff". For my example, you have no such respite to use.
With that out of the way, of course the cleric could have purified. However my archer did not have the same HP buffer as the barb to allow room for error and our cleric was healing solo. We simply decided to play that one safe, relatively speaking. Also, did you ever consider the fact that it was possible for me to.. say... oh I don't know.... level DURING the FB? Le gasp! Why, that must be impossible and no person is capable of doing such a thing! Seriously, use your brain or some common sense before you act like a condescending fool. Drop the sarcasm and stop acting like an idiot just because you were proven wrong. Oh and yes, I was more than capable of holding my own with 1 monster on just pots. It's called knowing how to play my class.
While sarcastic and woefully ignorant in nature, you bring up a point that I never argued against and, in fact, would agree with. Any ranged character that can play their class well is capable of tanking most of 69 on-level. However, let's go back a bit in your posts and look at something...MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Guess bosses at around lvl 100 must be easier than those at my range cuz LA usually gets ***** when tanking at my level. Especially level appropiate ? bosses...MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I ment in a squad which did make abundantly clear. An archer is better off doing DD work than tanking if an propiately geared/leveled Barb is present.
hmmm.... seems like on one hand you're saying one thing... and then once proven wrong you're running off and trying to say another. Please try and sort yourself out beforehand and stick to it. It would keep you from making yourself look foolish. Well seeing as your avatar shows a level 69 veno, why don't you go ahead and do like my archer did to prove yourself? Don't forget to keep aggro from the rest of the squad while they go all-out from the start and to have only one cleric there to heal you! After all, clearly no LA can tank something like Yan the Traitor at the level they get the quest much-less before it according to your prior statements! My archer MUST have been some sort of insane barb in disguise in order to have been tanking since no mere DD can hold aggro as well as a barb's aggro skills do no matter how good they are!MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »A Wizzie cannot tank as effectively as a barb whatever his gear. It's not only that phys is an important component in most bosses' damage but that their hp pool is too shallow. Same for other classes. Barbs have aggro holding skills which simply cannot be matched even by profficient damage dealers.
Perhaps I should have rephrased my post to say you don't always need them for an on-level tank. Even if as level and gear quality increases, the need to depend on them diminishes more and more as those like Cheeze have proven. Aggro control is wonderful for if you can't handle the bosses but let me ask you something. If you're a level 80 cleric in a BH29 and a level 41 barb is present, are you honestly going to control your aggro just so the barb, the official HA tank character, can tank or will you take the aggro yourself since that would lead to a faster kill and you can handle actually, ya know, tanking the boss yourself? So you wouldn't bother with aggro control? Then why should the (insert class here) fully capable of both ripping aggro from the (insert tank here), keeping aggro from said (insert tank here), and most importantly actually SURVIVING the attacks well enough to tank not do so? Especially if they're in a decent squad that has the members communicate with each other and the people in it can play well?
Or is it that you have some need to ALWAYS stick to the typical cleric heals, barb tanks, veno pulls, everyone else DDs and keeps their damage down so barb can keep aggro scenario that so many are foolishly locked into? No offense but from the way you post, I just see another of the many fools who go around shouting, "QUANJI SQUAD NEED BARB," when anyone with some experience knows that any arcane/LA can tank those bosses by their late 60s and that everyone and their grandma can do it by the 70s.0 -
Strange, I heal just fine. What nerfing are you talking about? Or just another pulling nonsense out of your **** again? Keep in mind that, being a demon cleric, you also don't understand the healing bonus sage ironheart gives. Fail.Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »sure..
it s very bright to pimp out cler build and nerf heals just to be able to tank belial random hits or aoes of rangers in brimstone and refuse to use p-shell, 79, apo or genie instead.
Yep, so much fail in yours.cmon, u seriously dont see how much fail is in that thinking?
Who was mentioning 3-3? You are the only one, and far fewer people are doing 3-3 than 2-3. At the moment 2-3 is a far more productive instance to run for money as a cleric since 2x is gone.as i said before - good luck on emperor, ilusion lord or anything else that will be able to oneshot ur hp
Fatal, Feng, Dog, Astral. That's 4. You flunked counting class too it looks like.btw insisting that herc in 2-3 is like a must..( bacause he speed up things drasticaly by -hmm- tanking 2 easiest bosses?)
But for the sake of hilarity I want quotes on when I said a herc in a 2-3 is a must. At least back something up with substance -- doubt you will. b:chuckle
Herc venos are not overrated, you just downplay them. This much is clear. Maybe you have a bias against hercs, maybe you are just dumb, one or the other, if not both, nonetheless.. incorrect, as usual. The amount herc venos spend in getting a herc they gain back at least tenfold, particularly if they know how to use it.you had ur point that venos 90+ should be able to slowly farm cash for herc. it s obvious that herc bring much benefit (i didnt ever argue with that) but mostly for venos
hercs usefulness in squads is way too much overrated.. ..as long it s not h-lvl veno which can own whole instance ofc..
Kettle, meat teapot.anyway, i dont wanna write here anymore plz. i was provoked by ur troll attempts on one of my friends, sorry
When did I bash a whole server? I haven't done so to this point. You simply enjoy making up **** to compensate for horrendous arguments. Along with taking a class on counting (starting with numbers 1 through 5) you should take a debate course next. The counting course is much more imperative.in everything i wrote i was wrong and you were right. and this topic isnt about you at all. well, maybe you ofended whole server because somene didnt agree with your stereotypical ideas, but that was pve server so who cares anyway0 -
Edited for sanity's sake.
First off, proven wrong? My argument was, and still is, the specialist is better at his job. For some reason after having triumphantly "proven" your point you decide to go back to level difference. You yourself admit my argument when you explain why you didn't tank Pole. Barbs are better tanks. period. I never said they were more "convenient" which is relative and a matter of opinion. Objectively they are better. Period.
Playing your class is being efficient, that doesn't just mean speed but safety as well. Your taking on the main tanking duties on your fb is nothing but unnecesarily showing off. A barb which is higher level than you shouldn't have had trouble holding aggro. And is easy to underestimate an instance you have outleveled. Normal archers should barely be able to survive an elite their level, much less tank three. I'm not complimenting your skill, i'm calling you on your bull... "i leveled while doing my fb..." GTFO. You shouldn't be bragging about doing it as a 69 then.
Now, since you seem intent on quoting my exchanges with other players;
They gingerly claimed to have "accidentally" stolen aggro. Not only did they fail at aggro management but instead of giving the original tanker a chance to steal aggro back (since their argument is the fail barb couldn't do it, not that they failed by continuing their attack) they continued claiming it to their credit (and not the cleric's which surely must have jumped through hoops the sec the DD stole aggro) that they could tank.
This is a mistake piled on top of another mistake, and on top of that an attitude of disregard and contempt towards both barb and cleric. These people just got lucky they didn't cause a wipe.
As for your little feat it hardly makes you worthy of any praise. You handled easy jobs (other than your claims about mobs which really someone else should have handled) and have the nerve to suggest this makes you a better tanker than a barb. Are you freaking out of your mind? You should have tanked the "hard" bosses if you wanted the credit.
That in some scenarios it may be convenient to have the archer tank does in no way make them a better tank. And as for your last silly example high levels have been known to wipe underestimating lower level instances. Barbs will always be better, safer tankers than you. Freaking get it. All of these claims are ridiculous.
"Any class can pull better than Venos." No, they can't.
"Wizards can heal better than Clerics." Absolutely not.
"Archers are better tanks than Barbs." Not at all.
That you can competently take on other roles doesn't make you better than the real thing. You said you answered my question. So acording to you (even while you admit your squad was better off with the barb tanking Pole) after level 70 it would be better to have an Archer tank than a Barb. Think that's going to get me through my TT runs? Are you mentally deffective? Do you even realize what you are saying?
And you think you proved me wrong you idiot? Unless gear or level are making a tremendous difference i'm better off having a Barb or BM tank nine times out of ten.
A barb is the best tank you can get. Period.0 -
Oh Shut Up Already!
~s0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »*snip*
You must be truly ignorant or a fool if you claim that a barb is the best tank for every situation. The best tank is the person who can gain aggro, keep aggro, and survive the attacks while allowing the rest of the squad to deal the most damage possible. A level 80 well-geared cleric is a better tank for a FB29 than a level 40 well-geared barb, for example. This is a fact regardless of what your asinine beliefs make you think.
At no point in time did I EVER say barbs are not good tanks. However, making the outrageous claim that barbs are ALWAYS better tanks? What kind of an idiot are you? Arcanes are a far better tank than a barb for several bosses with the most famed one being Mantavip. How about the towerling in FB29? It only attacks at melee range meaning the barb who runs in there to tank is at more of a risk than the non-barb who fights at range and doesn't even get hit. How about Trioc in FB39? Pure magic, likes running away, deals heavy damage to barbs of that level. To arcanes and LA? Joke of a boss that never moves and tickles.
Part of playing your class effectively includes knowing what you are and are not capable of. Go ahead and slow down an entire squad running 59 by waiting for an hour for a barb to arrive to tank for you. Meanwhile, the arcanes and LAs that are perfectly capable of doing the exact same thing faster will be finishing up their runs and laughing at you. Normal archers are easily capable of surviving elites their level once they figure out the bet ways to handle them. unfortunately, the typical player is much like you and is so busy doing nothing but staying within te accepted norm that they never push their characters to the limits to find out what can and can't be done. A while ago, people like yourself would claim fists failed and that no BM should ever go fist even after being shown evidence of what fists are capable of. Now? Everyone is talking about fist this and fist that when it comes to DPS and what can be achieved.
Tanking my own FB wasn't something done for the sake of showing off. It was done because myself and the squad I was in felt like it and wanted to see if it could be done. And, again, USE COMMON SENSE. FB tabs give a quest. Said quest has an EXP reward once you kill a boss. I had clearly stated I did not tank Nob or Pole. Perhaps if you used the brain you were given, assuming you know how, it would dawn upon you that I tanked the mobs while I was level 69, tabbed at Pyro, tanked successfully, and upon killing Pyro leveled from the EXP given. Then again, maybe simple cause and effect is something you cannot understand.
Now since you seem to love contradicting yourself and lying about what was and was not said, the first person you went against said that a non-barb can tank just as well as a barb in most situations and backed it up by mentioning how their Wiz was tanking in 99 without a problem.Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »*snip*
After this, Cheze disagreed with your post saying a "specialist" will still perform better in a group by pointing out some of the problems that arise in groups. Your response was that an appropriately geared/leveled barb being present would make it better for the archer, who can SOLO the instance may I add, to instead sit back and DD while limiting their damage output and causing the time taken to increase vastly. His appropriate response, since he is obviously already capable of tanking by mere definition of being able to solo:Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »If anyone can actually keep aggro off me while I'm doing 20k damage per second to ? boss I'd gladly let them tank.
He did not say anything about "accidentally" taking aggro, as you put it. He knows damn well that he'll take aggro and he also knew damn well that he could hold aggro AND tank the boss.
There's alsoDevil_Vergil - Lost City wrote: »*snip*Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver wrote: »*snip*Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »*snip*
All of which disagree with you nd state how non-barbs can handle tanking just fine while not mentioning aggro.
In fact, the ONLY post that has an archer stealing aggro by mistake but continuing to tank is
and even then, only one boss was tanked by mistake this way. The rest? All done purposefully and even how it was planned for he last thee Thus, your entire rant and false point about aggro has just been rendered null and void.Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »*snip*
As already said, get your head out from wherever it is and see how things are. Barbs are NOT always going to be the safer, better tank. If that was the case then do tell why in so many areas it's accepted and, often times enforced, that the barb does not/b] do the tanking?
The extra statements you threw out are just beyond pathetic. No one has ever said any class can pull better than venos. However, any class CAN pull successfully and there are many cases where a different class may be better for pulling than a veno. Especially in areas where, say, oh I dunno, the monsters don't assist each other and thus having a veno pull is a waste of time? Nobody was ever debating that clerics are better overall for healing. The sheer number of heal skills they have overall makes certain of that. However can wizards have a more powerful heal in general due to build differences? Yes. Can wizards outheal clerics for short bursts thanks to sutra? Yes. And thanks to morning dew's chance to recover full HP... well... it's kinda hard to outheal a full heal, don't ya think? Oh and not once has anyone said that an archer is always a better tank than a barb. Can archers tank? Yes. Are there certain things an archer can tank better than a barb? Yes. If an archer is capable of doing something solo and the barb thy squad with cannot keep up with aggro, is the archer a better choice of a tank than the barb for whatever is going on? Yes.
Your flawed logic here is utterly and completely pathetic. You're not even using valid arguments or points and are merely grasping at straws in order to try to save face. Get a real argument, get real proof, and get working on using your brain. Then come back and try to debate against something that the skilled players here know.
The person who is the best tank for any given situation is the person who can best keep aggro while simultaneously taking damage and surviving it. It doesn't matter if it's the archer, herc, veno, wiz, psy, BM, barb, GM who randomly decided to solo a boss, or otherwise. This is what I've been trying to say and what your mental capabilities seem unable to comprehend.
So while you go around saying a Barb is the best tank period, allow me to ask you something a fool once asked me.
"Are you mentally deffective? Do you even realize what you are saying?"
No. b:heartSaitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh Shut Up Already!
~s0 -
No. b:heart
But but but but..... I demand that you stop talking because I said for you to stop talking because my way is the proper way to tell someone how to talk and you are doing it all wrong and you should stop talking because enough is enough already and I want to make dinner but can't because I have to troll this thread till you all stop talking about stuff that I told you to stop talking about because my way is the only possible way to troll a thread properly and you are doing it wrong!
~S0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »But but but but..... I demand that you stop talking because I said for you to stop talking because my way is the proper way to tell someone how to talk and you are doing it all wrong and you should stop talking because enough is enough already and I want to make dinner but can't because I have to troll this thread till you all stop talking about stuff that I told you to stop talking about because my way is the only possible way to troll a thread properly and you are doing it wrong!
~S
How about if I give you a cookie and a to-go plate? Then you can have dinner while you troll the thread and everybody wins. b:thanks0 -
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »A barb is the best tank you can get. Period.
A tank by definition is someone who can grab and maintain aggro on the boss and take hits to allow his squad members to deal damage.
The most effective (a.k.a "best") tank is the one who can maintain aggro without dying while letting their squadmates dish out the most damage possible without jeapordizing the squad. Class is irrelevant when determining who is the "best". It's results that matter.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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L2READ NOOB
I granted the point Archers would be better for some situations, Which makes my statement about Barbs a general comment. Could you at least not parrot the way i talked to you stupid? Come up with something that resembles an original thought by all means.
My discussion with Cheeze was settled when he admitted to an extraordinary build.
It is you who in your stubborness made outrageous claims. Didn't you answer my question? Why go again with the level difference argument if you had already made it past that? And what contradictions. FYI this all started by me disproving a wizzie's post full of arrogant statements. Fail archers like you took offense to my not considering you tanks. Every single class can tank given appropiate circumstances moron. Your relativistic take on things would make terms useless "tank is whoever can hold aggro, blah, blah, QQ..." NO. Tanking as a class role is reserved for Barbs and BMs, all others are situational.
There's a post somewhere on this thread about wizzies with 16k phys res and 11k hp. They can certainly manage aggro.
HA venos can get insane phys res because of Foxform.
Clerics can both tank and heal themselves.
Are all classes to be considered tankers? What are you stupid? THE TERM LOSES ALL MEANING WHEN IT CEASES TO BE USEFUL AS A DESCRIPTION.
And stop twisting my words, loser. I never claimed "barbs are better in any single situation you could ever get into...". What i said is they're the best tanking class.
Now go and try to learn how to play the game. b:bye0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »A tank by definition is someone who can grab and maintain aggro on the boss and take hits to allow his squad members to deal damage.
The most effective (a.k.a "best") tank is the one who can maintain aggro without dying while letting their squadmates dish out the most damage possible without jeapordizing the squad. Class is irrelevant when determining who is the "best". It's results that matter.
I had to double post since this new forum won't let me edit my post...
I agree with your post as it applies to a specific scenario, not as a generic statement. Hope you can tell the difference.
And i'm hoping you just quoted me as a reference because if you're trolling me you're either cowardly or stupid.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I had to double post since this new forum won't let me edit my post...
I agree with your post as it applies to a specific scenario, not as a generic statement. Hope you can tell the difference.
And i'm hoping you just quoted me as a reference because if you're trolling me you're either cowardly or stupid.
I don't troll. Usually.
If yours is a general statement, there's nothing more to say. That's the truth after all.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Bah! You are all wrong. The best Tank is:
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Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »I don't troll. Usually.
If yours is a general statement, there's nothing more to say. That's the truth after all.
Thank you. b:thanks0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Tanking as a class role is reserved for Barbs and BMs, all others are situational.
I disagree on that.
Barb = Barb
Barb =/= Tank
BM = BM
BM =/= TankMANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Are all classes to be considered tankers? What are you stupid? THE TERM LOSES ALL MEANING WHEN IT CEASES TO BE USEFUL AS A DESCRIPTION.
Sincere question. What is the definition of the term then?
The thread is so long I've forgotten what has been said along the whole 17 pages, but I thought the whole topic was about being in roles not traditionally played? The discussion I'm seeing now is enforcement of traditional roles. Or am I wrong?0 -
Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary wrote: »I disagree on that.
Barb = Barb
Barb =/= Tank
BM = BM
BM =/= Tank
Sincere question. What is the definition of the term then?
The thread is so long I've forgotten what has been said along the whole 17 pages, but I thought the whole topic was about being in roles not traditionally played? The discussion I'm seeing now is enforcement of traditional roles. Or am I wrong?
The current discussion basically got started when some posters made some outrageous claims about some classes basically outperforming specialists on their roles. Yes, people should be free to explore the limits to their class but claiming an archer is a better tanker than a barb or a wizard a better healer than a cleric crosses the line into arrogance.
Barbs and BMs certainly have freedom to experiment but tanking is a part of their class description and a role that should not be neglected. Even a high dex fist build should allow a BM to tank competently and the same goes for any feasible build (eg not Bowbarian) you could think for Barb. In this respect the current discussion (i should openly say flaming) centers on tanking roles for other classes which IMO, while able to handle the job in many scenarios, are not natural tankers. BM is the only class aside from Barb that has a specific skill to raise threat level. I admit a few builds (eg HA veno) could be considered good as situational tankers but not that they could, in general terms, outperform a Barbarian.
To your question; I've been using Tank as a description for a class role, which i believe addresses the general topic of builds this thread was discussing. Others have different opinions.0 -
Starflair - Dreamweaver wrote: »
The lame fact of the matter is that most classes have their specialties which many players have such high expectations. For some reason, Venos HAVE TO KNOW how to pull, otherwise they fail. That kind of erks me, because the whole "pulling" thing is a glitch that should be fixed IMO. The fact that a player doesn't know how to abuse the system shouldn't mean they get ridiculed and/or kicked from the squad.
Really? You think the "Veno pull" is a GLITCH! Are you drunk or just ignorant? The Veno pull, using our pets to separate out one mob from the rest of the crowd of mobs, so we all don't pull a mass of aggro on top of us all at once, is just another talent that Veno's can choose to learn, like Archers and Clerics, and Wizards learning how to "kite" mobs. Get a grip, and stop badmouthing Venos, as you obviously haven't a clue as to how to really play one! Apparently you're unable to tell the difference between a real PWI game glitch, and a playing method normally used by this type of character. If the ability to summon and unsummon their pets were taken away, the Veno would die; the ability to use their pets is part & parcel of what playing a Veno is all about. Sounds to me like you are just jealous that your character does not have this ability. Go read something intelligent, maybe it will expand your thinking processes. And quit QQing about Venos; it's lame ~
Edit: "I commend all of you who are able to think outside of the box and come up with new and more exciting ways to make this game better. Thank you all." by OP DaWoman
Yes, I agree; nice post, btw ~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Muchas gracias to Saitada for the siggy ~0 -
And once more you go off proving how much of a fool you are. Considering how so many are disagreeing with you and how you're constantly tripping over your own statements, I'll simply let that speak for itself.MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »*snip*
Use your brain once you grow one. Maybe then you'll be able to see what should be obvious.
Oh and no one but yourself have been making any assumptions or claims about X Y or Z being better for an overall job than what's commonly been accepted. you're the one who keeps trying to say that. The rest of us have been saying that X can tank just as well as Y in a majority of situations. Not all. Go back to school and follow your own advice about learning to read. It would have solved a large amount of the fuss you started.0 -
QQ you're stupider than me.
Good riddance, let my comments speak for themselves then. b:bye
Edit; Oh, a ninja edit? Guess your leaving was as much bull as your first post. "Follow your own advice" whatever parrot. You're the one who's been twisting arguments to suit you. L2TELL TEH TRUTH NOOB.0 -
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How have I been twisting anything? I've made sure to go straight to your points and counter them all. On top of that, I've been providing quotes showing your words and those of others simply to show that you've been spewing BS. Please, do, continue to be an arrogant fool.MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Good riddance, let my comments speak for themselves then. b:bye
Edit; Oh, a ninja edit? Guess your leaving was as much bull as your first post. "Follow your own advice" whatever parrot. You're the one who's been twisting arguments to suit you. L2TELL TEH TRUTH NOOB.
No really, seeing someone who's clearly a fool call someone with more experience who's shredded apart their arguments a noob and who has nothing they can do but resort to insults in a futile attempt to act superior and salvage what little remains of their e-peen (in this case, that would be you) is rather amusing. You're making me quite happy that I gained popcorn.
Oh and nowhere did I say i was leaving. I merely said I'd let how pretty much everyone who's responded to you has disagreed speak for itself. At no point did I say I was leaving the thread. Of course... if you're too busy trying to prove something to yourself to read then... well... that's not exactly my problem now is it?Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Bah! You are all wrong. The best Tank is:
Butbutbut... I likes
more! b:cry 0 -
How have I been twisting anything? I've made sure to go straight to your points and counter them all. On top of that, I've been providing quotes showing your words and those of others simply to show that you've been spewing BS. Please, do, continue to be an arrogant fool.
No really, seeing someone who's clearly a fool call someone with more experience who's shredded apart their arguments a noob and who has nothing they can do but resort to insults in a futile attempt to act superior and salvage what little remains of their e-peen (in this case, that would be you) is rather amusing. You're making me quite happy that I gained popcorn.
Oh and nowhere did I say i was leaving. I merely said I'd let how pretty much everyone who's responded to you has disagreed speak for itself. At no point did I say I was leaving the thread. Of course... if you're too busy trying to prove something to yourself to read then... well... that's not exactly my problem now is it?
Straight to my points? You dumb jerk, i used different arguments to make the one and same point but apparently that got confused in your small mind. Spewing BS, you're the only one that's proven adept at "embellishing" but apparently your 6 year old mentality insists on trying to pin on me the names you've earned for yourself.
The only thing you're clearly more experienced than i am is popcorn and pretending amusement. And apparently you're too literally minded to grasp the concept of subtext you illiterate bufoon. And not everyone who has responded to me has disagreed although i do seem to attract trolls like yourself. Maybe you like the smell of clean, you're obviously not used to it.
b:irritated I'm not so much amused as disgusted by roaches that have somehow learned to crawl on forums...
And as for your argument that people agree with you, adults learn to rely on their own intelligence, not blindly flock like sheep. At least own up to your own ideas and be a man you coward.0 -
F2PP2W ugly generic forums are srs bsns.
0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »-Ramblings of a fool-
Yes yes we get it. You're a ranting, raving, fool who cannot stand to be bested and must constantly QQ. Get over yourself. Attempting to find subtext when there is none? Calling someone illiterate when almost all of your posts against them contain far more errors in literacy than their own? Showing yourself as incapable of basic comprehension, among other things? You truly are pathetic.
And when it comes to facts, an adult knows that there are times to accept when a majority is right. If a group of people tell you that sticking your hand into a fire is going to get you burned and you insist upon doing so anyways in some pitiful attempt to show off knowledge that you obviously do not have, you would be perceived as the childish fool once you were burned. The same logic, something which you seem unable to grasp, applies here.0 -
general idiocy.
Blah, blah, shut up. Whatever drooling self righteous bull passes as wit to you i've had enough of. YOU LIE. There really is no point in arguing with you because you're unable to actually acknowledge any reason or argument presented to you.
I was bested? LOL, if i ever was it was certainly not by you. Stop reading that cheesy pseudo-romantic **** and please leave me out of your delusional fantasies. Saying you'll let posts speak for themselves usually signals you will no longer argue. I must admit you've kept your word on that one account, but the unintelligent ramblings you do consider argument have long bored me.
And you continue to ape me. I realize imitation may be considered flattery but your parody has grown tiresome.
Let's talk about pathetic. I have doubted your intelligence, literacy, manhood and called you a liar to your face. All you've done is prove me right through your warped view of reality. I wonder if you're schizoid and wether engaging in further discourse with you is not abusing a mentally ill person. At any rate you've proven inadequate to mantain a conversation and i shall no longer degrade myself by acknowledging you. Have the last say, whatever. I do reserve the right to answer future posts but will give you a pass on the next one. Might not prevent you from going to sleep in tears but is the best i can do.
Knock yourself up loser, prove you are a lying coward once more...0 -
*skips all the rabble and ignores all the flame contests*
I'm all for out of the box thinking. My take on it is that if you CAN perform a certain job, be it what your class was intended for or not, then why not?
oh, and saitada, is that an m1 abrams i see there? it can tank my bh any day lol.Sometimes, when I'm bored, I blow myself up. b:victory
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ClericNico: 7x Cleric, Hate2Love Executor
_Poe_: 7x Barbarian, Tormented Executor (Hate2Love Alt Faction)
Durzo_Blint: 6x Blademaster, Tormented
The cleric formerly known as the veno known as Sheeeba. b:chuckle0 -
ClericNico - Dreamweaver wrote: »*skips all the rabble and ignores all the flame contests*
I'm all for out of the box thinking. My take on it is that if you CAN perform a certain job, be it what your class was intended for or not, then why not?
oh, and saitada, is that an m1 abrams i see there? it can tank my bh any day lol.
M1A2
~Saitada0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Bah! You are all wrong. The best Tank is:
*image that made me lol*
Oops. Not good, in an office environment... b:shutupMANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »The current discussion basically got started when some posters made some outrageous claims about some classes basically outperforming specialists on their roles. Yes, people should be free to explore the limits to their class but claiming an archer is a better tanker than a barb or a wizard a better healer than a cleric crosses the line into arrogance.
I've re-read the entire thread.
My understanding of these claims were along this line:
1) Due to outstanding damage, archer draws aggro
2) Archer is able to survive
3) Everyone goes into DD frenzy because archer is able to hold aggro, can survive and deal damage at the same time
4) Cleric is happy as long s/he doesn't need to switch targets
5) Fight ends faster than usual
6) End story.
At any one point of the above story, I have not seen how the archer has outperformed the barb in the tanking capacity. Neither were there claims that the archer is the best tank, etc. The only claim, which is valid because most of us know about aggro management, is that the archer is better at holding aggro only because of pure damage output and not because they have aggro skills better than a 'true barb' or some such. However I agree with their line of reasoning. If for example the barb is constantly dipping only 20% HP while the archer is dipping 40% HP, but the cleric can keep up with the heals, then I don't see why the DDs should gimp their damage to allow 'safer' tanking when it isn't anymore dangerous with an archer tanking. And often times, a faster fight always benefits everyone.
Correct me if my above understanding is wrong.
What you are saying is that the barb and BM are universally better tanks. I would agree if we're talking about physical bosses (especially with debuffs). But the others are merely saying that in most cases, they are indeed replaceable. I don't see the issue with that.
As far as I can tell, there is too much mixing of 'generalisation' and 'specification', it's gotten a bit confusing even for bystanders to read. It does seem to be a 'specialist VS non-specialist' kind of argument.
Unfortunately, the thread is about being in a 'non-specialist' role, and people are agreeing with the OP. So you're not going to meet a lot of 'specialist' enthusiasts.
About wizards out-healing cleric, there isn't much to argue because they only have one heal while a cleric can switch to many for various situations and manage their mana, so I think it's a pretty self explanatory thing. It's just musings I think.
If it's unfair to say that other classes can outperform barbs, who are the 'specialists', then it's also unfair to deny uncommon feats accomplished by those who bother.
This is purely opinion, but I don't think not being a barb means you're a fake tank if there's even such a thing. While it is already understood that the main role of the barb is to tank, would you deny the same term of an AA or LA tank in bh59? Is that fair?
Arrogance or not, it's best not to assume because as someone has told me before, assume makes an "****" out of "u" and "me".
Edit: In case I'm not being clear, I'll state here first that I respect the 'traditional' roles intended to be carried out by the 'specialists'. I generally agree with you that they do what they best in most scenarios. However, this game is flexible (even clerics can DD), so I'd sooner explore the possibilities than enforce the roles. So rest assured, your points are acknowledged.0
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