Stop telling others how to play

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

magic - huh? learned on dreamwaver b:quiet /quote]
No idea where this little rant came from but, okay. b:chuckle

Sorry, but server named Dreamweaver.

And I saw many times how Cleric is Cleric only by icon, but can't heal or said something:
"If you will not kill this mob for me, I will go." or simply left squad because he need to go without any explanations.


In above cases my Wizard had healed tank.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. Wizzy never can replace cleric. It not his job. He can help in some situation but never fully replace. I can heal wined BH 79 without problems, but not unwined. I can tank also all bosses in BH 79 except stygean, but I cannot replace barb in another instances like 99 same with healing. We cannot fully replace clerics ins game no way.
2. Sage healing has 10% to fully heal target. With channeling gear my healing is much faster. So 1 time from ten I will fully recover target's HP regardless how big HP he has. Theoretically less than 1 minute I can fully recover target's hp.

"All bosses except". Sorry, had to. Not really all of them if there's exceptions. b:chuckle

Jiblet - Sanctuary

Kyonkorrh - Sanctuary wrote: »

Forgive me, but I see things like:

level 11 morning dew: Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of
base magic damage. 5.7s overall cast (1.2 with sutra for 6s), 1s cooldown

level 11 stream of rejuvenation: Heal the target's HP, recovering 1800 plus 60%
of your base magic attack and and additional 1800 HP
over 15 seconds (guess that stacks also). 3.5s overall cast, 1s cooldown

Wizards are great in many things, even in healing here and there. But in no way they can compete with the heals of a cleric imho. b:surrender

Ok, with sutra you can draw even or maybe even get some more hp healed for 6 seconds every minute. Still that won't help much when things hit hard for more than 6s. b:chuckle

b:bye

Hey mate, long time no see:)
I mis-typed a phrease in my earlier post - I meant to say "Overall I'm not saying WIZARDS (I actually typed clerics) are a better healer:P I also am not saying that a wizzy can compete with a cleric for healing duties. What I am saying is that a wizzy can be a perfectly adequate healer (if required) in a lot more situations than is generally accepted.

Having said that, Even with your stats above a wizard can still heal higher than a cleric cast for cast (I know clerics cast faster out of sutra) dependent on eq (you show me your Mattk and I'll show you mine xD, but again if you were comparing identical builds this wouldn't be the case. However, there are far more wizzies (percentage-wise) with a completely pure int build than there are clerics, a lot of whom (not all, I know) add vit.

Oh btw MagicSaber, there's no point in bringing up a "but you forgot about" argument wth Kyon....he's too damn good with stats and clever stuff like thinkingb:laugh

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »

...
Oh btw MagicSaber, there's no point in bringing up a "but you forgot about" argument wth Kyon....he's too damn good with stats and clever stuff like thinkingb:laugh

I wrote same in PM (Clerics are healers and Wizards are Wizards).

But I had need to point out that even without Sutra exists ways to increase healing efficiency of Wizard's Morning Dew.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To be an effective veno and something more than just a debuffer, a veno needs a herc. Unless, without paying for the expensive pet scrolls, you can show me how a veno tanks certain bosses like in 2-3, 3-1, etc. or makes the coin they do. They won't be utilized nearly as much as a veno without a herc, and there aren't many venos past their 90s who don't have one for a reason. If hercs weren't that necessary, then such a high amount of venos wouldn't have them, including my own.

We are talking about usefulenss of herced veno verus normal in squad as DD - not as main tank (we arent talking bout solo abilites for sure either).
and there is high demand coz ppl are stupid. they think herc (as just DD) will make things done faster for some mysterious reason.
and ofc it s better to be veno with herc that not (for yourself) - but this is not the case we talk about

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Buffed, for Belial. It probably has to do with going with other AA clerics who've ate it by not having enough HP when Belial turns around and doesn't get reamed/quaked fast enough whereas every time I survived where they died. Not to mention before there was Quake clerics had to have far more HP. Might wanna actually have a conversation with others who clearly know more than you, which is just about everyone.

no, ur just that bad that instead of using ur skills to survive belial hits, u just pump ur HP to tank them o0
good luck with that tactic on 3-3 emperor or ilusion lord. cant wait to see ur build for them - 25k HP cleric must be pretty epic phenomenon

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

quote]magic - huh? learned on dreamwaver b:quie[/quote
No idea where this little rant came from but, okay. b:chuckle

maybe from that little rant?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(might have to do with being on Dreamweaver and pretending you know something)

you are just ignorant who say that something cant be done because you cant do it.
i seriously wouldnt care about you much. met many ppl with thier 'golden' advices like yours. But ur so pride and ofending in ur ignorancy that i just gotta snap you.
i blame my hot-tempted character

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

We are talking about usefulenss of herced veno verus normal in squad as DD - not as main tank (we arent talking bout solo abilites for sure either).
and there is high demand coz ppl are stupid. they think herc (as just DD) will make things done faster for some mysterious reason.
and ofc it s better to be veno with herc that not (for yourself) - but this is not the case we talk about

That's probably for the stupid reason that with a herc veno you have the herc and the veno doing DD, and the herc can be a tank too. Pretty stupid, I know. Or maybe it's you. b:chuckle

It's pretty obvious it's you especially when you suggest that it's everyone else that's stupid but you, both the venos who have them and those who specifically use them to tank. Brilliant, lol.

no, ur just that bad that instead of using ur skills to survive belial hits, u just pump ur HP to tank them o0
gl with that tactic on 3-3 emperor or ilusion lord. cant wait to see ur build for them - 25k HP cleric must be pretty epic phenomenon

So genius, what tactic do you use when spamming ironheart with an occasional purify or sitting in BB? There's nothing you can do as it's in the hands of the barb reaming and others doing earthquake. Clerics get killed from them, not from a lack of "skills". That's where HP comes in handy, doesn't it? You certainly aren't very smart, given you think you can use skills while in BB.

maybe from that that little rant?

Makes about as much sense as the rest of your blather. b:chuckle

you are just ignorant who say that something cant be done because you cant do it.
i seriously wouldnt care about you much. met many ppl with thier 'golden' advices like yours. but ur so pride and ofending in ur ignorancy that i just gotta snap you.

You don't come off to me as very smart. Pretentious, sure, but smart? Hell no.

i blame my hot-tempted character

Oh I blame much more than that.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

if you have failed at your class you sould probobly accept advice from those who have more experiance

exe:clerics that only heal with wellspring, barba that think they can hold aggro in human, arcane archers,venos that dont like useing pets, paladins, any bm past 90 with only 1 weapon path,etc

seen all of the above and more

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

wrong topic

Alliptica - Lost City

wow...another argument about classes? this is turning into an ongoing thing im going to call them The Elite Arguers ahahahaaha

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's probably for the stupid reason that with a herc veno you have the herc and the veno doing DD, and the herc can be a tank too. Pretty stupid, I know. Or maybe it's you. b:chuckle

yep, and usually herced veno iis allowed to tank one or two nubcake bosses in whole run (if tank actually allow them).
Squad gain some dmg from herc reflect but they lose veno as DD. They gain 1/2 DD from cleric who can now only DD (instead of heal/dd) and another bit of power from barb who can DD in human form (if there is bm tanking, not much changes tho).
so yea, it s advantage -i wont say it isnt- but only 'big' like that
statement that veno without herc cant be effective DD is just false

imo that false thinking lead to today's situation where random squads kick non-herc venos and use hercs just as puller/DD anyway (tanks afraid of losing 1st pick or just pure stupidity that herc gotta be better coz is big and shiny)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's pretty obvious it's you especially when you suggest that it's everyone else that's stupid but you, both the venos who have them and those who specifically use them to tank. Brilliant, lol.

what?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So genius, what tactic do you use when spamming ironheart with an occasional purify or sitting in BB? There's nothing you can do as it's in the hands of the barb reaming and others doing earthquake. Clerics get killed from them, not from a lack of "skills". That's where HP comes in handy, doesn't it? You certainly aren't very smart, given you think you can use skills while in BB.

if ur are too slowpoke to use cler survival skills between heals, then ur case is hopeless and i cant do much for you
well, maybe there is dim light of hope for you called genie or apo tho

anyway, endofrant eot

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yep, and usually herced veno iis allowed to tank one or two nubcake bosses in whole run (if tank actually allow them).
Squad gain some dmg from herc reflect but they lose veno as DD. They gain 1/2 DD from cleric who can now only DD (instead of heal/dd) and another bit of power from barb who can DD in human form (if there is bm tanking, not much changes tho).
so yea, it s advantage -i wont say it isnt- but only 'big' like that
statement that veno without herc cant be effective DD at end game is just false

You obviously don't have a veno or could use some lessons on how to play one, and perhaps a cleric too.

In most cases when my veno is tanking she does occasional DD and amp at the same time. Only a few bosses she's stuck spam healing, like Fataliqua 2-3.

if ur are too slowpoke to use cler survival skills between heals, then ur case is hopeless and i cant do much for you
well, maybe there is dim light of hope for you called genie or apo tho

Genie skills mitigate perhaps getting 2 shot, which is why I would be fine, because I have the HP (and even a decent amount of pdef) not to get one shot by Belial, but the issue here is you saying clerics with low HP doing Belial can survive using genie skills and ****, when they are at a high risk of getting 1 shot, never mind 2. Not much apoth and genie skills you can use when dead. Much like the veno thing above it's clear though that you like talking out of your **** and there's not much else to your posts.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I stand corrected then. At what level do you suggest i start looking for Archers instead of Barbs for tanking jobs? Or is this just you with uber CS gear?

lvl 95 archer tanked my whole fb 79, good geared, but definitely not +12 everything. first two bossess by accident (he stole aggro) last three were planned, barb just gave up and switched to human. at low 80s i could easily solo heal archer tanking 79 bossess, and everyone was happy. the only dangerous moment is when someone steals aggro - because i have to notice it fast and switch from previous tank, especially if new tank is squishy. if i _expect_ someone to tank i just stack heals on them from the beginning, and squad gives them time to get a hold on aggro.
tank is whoever can hold aggro. healer is whoever can keep tank alive. dd is whoever deals damage. as long as squad gets job done im ok with not typical roles. what about you?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Only a few bosses she's stuck spam healing, like Fataliqua 2-3. .

this is one of those nubcake bosses i have in mind actually

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Genie skills mitigate perhaps getting 2 shot, which is why I would be fine, because I have the HP (and even a decent amount of pdef) not to get one shot by Belial, but the issue here is you saying clerics with low HP doing Belial can survive using genie skills and ****, when they are at a high risk of getting 1 shot, never mind 2. Not much apoth and genie skills you can use when dead. Much like the veno thing above it's clear though that you like talking out of your **** and there's not much else to your posts.

oke. nvm
you will understand me when you will start doing something harder than 2-3

Airyll - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it's clear though that you like talking out of your **** and there's not much else to your posts.

When it comes to talking about venos, this goes for you too.

I'd better go tell every single 80+ veno I've ever FC'd with that I'm never going to FC with them again because they are completely useless, I suppose, if I start following your logic.

As far as the discussion of venos is concerned, may I suggest you stop talking out your ****. My veno alt is perfectly useful without a Herc. The many, many 80+ venos without a Herc I have squadded with were perfectly useful.
Oh, wait. You must be one of these "special" venos, right? You know, the arrogant, ignorant and all round dumbass "I have a Herc, so I must totally be better than you and you are now totally useless" people.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Answering some comments in this thread in no special order.

1. Veno should always Amp when in a squad. Period. This is a veno's most basic and important job and there's no good reason not to do it. All venos should also skill Extreme Poison on their genie. It stacks a 20% debuff for gebus' sake. And that another veno is amping doesn't mean you shouldn't, take freaking turns. The one exception is when AoE would knock you down but this is rare. There's a reason Foxform gives you a phys res boost and while Amp has a short range it isn't exactly melee.

2. The prejudice against unherc'ed venos comes mostly from people that fail at understanding a veno's role in a squad. An herc should only be required when it's meant to tank, otherwise it's just an atempt by fail players to have some sort of safety net. And you know who's gonna get blamed if the party wipes... And an herc doesn't make a veno any worse than people without one. It's a tool (the absolute best for many jobs), it should be treated as such.

3. There is such a thing as respect but this doesn't mean you should abide people just to coast along. Whenever i see someone making what i consider an error (eg a veno not amping) i pm them. People are more willing to listen if they don't feel you're exposing them to criticism by the whole squad. This is exactly what you should do on some situations however, if someone is unwilling to listen there's nothing wrong with letting it stand for the record. Sometimes people should tell others how to play.

4. Breaking "rules" is only meaningful when you understand them. Many players try to pass mistakes or ignorance as inovation, it's not. You should be fully competent at your class role before you attempt experimental builds. BMs that can't tank (as an example) fail at their class. Excuses about builds are meaningless. Any BM should be able to handle tanking most BH bosses as they're at least freaking 20 levels lower than they are.

5. People should be upfront. Finding someone can't perform in a role the squad relied on is a frustrating experience. If you can't do something, or just are unsure how to go about it, i'll be the first to defend you if you make it clear the second you squad. I realize not all players visit forums and that many may have made wrong asumptions about their class or their game's mechanics. It is unfortunate we now have to deal with this at much higher levels because of the out of control leveling pace the game has implemented. However to cover it up with deception and bad attitude is just being a jerk. No excuse for that.

6. Even the best players make honest mistakes. You shouldn't judge someone by an incident or two. Now if you see a pattern emerge it's a whole different picture. I rely on people i squad with to do their jobs and correspond by performing on mine. Doesn't make me unforgiving, you should always place yourself in somebody else's shoes (should we say keyboard?) before you attempt to give instructions or advice. Being polite always helps.

Ilenka - Harshlands

One of the best veno i know.. is one of my best friends in game and is an hercless veno. She can pretty much do anything and runs FC smoothly, meanwhile her magmite tanks a boss she does amply and curse the target. She never QQs about mp or anything and usually does Transfusion without dying

Going back into the topic, Im an archer, but im a tank too... im pure dex but with enough HP and magic defense to tank until bh59 bosses.... thats a lot more than any other regular archer could say.

However i think you gotta KNOW how to play your roll. We are not suppossed to be fixed into one cathegory but at the same time we need to be able to fullfill it. Example: having a lv 90 barb with crappy gear and hp below 8k, that wanna go in a FC team. You think: "hes 90, he sure can do the job" but then when youre in exp room he cant hold aggro from all the mobs in the room , or die, and then wipe. Everybody ends hating the fail barb and leave squad, and blacklist him for any further parties.

The point here is that even when you can choose what to do (imagine a dex barb or a str veno) you need to be able to play your part too, especially in certain situations like FC or GV.

Me being a pure dex archer i can steal aggro from almost anything. A good DD, can attack without stealing aggro. If he or she does either is not good, or is afk attacking or distracted or he/she does it intentionally... (im usually in this case xD).

And the best DD is the one that can steal aggro and hold it and tank, or steal aggro and get all his skills together to survive the hits, till the tanker could get aggro back.



PS. I happen to have once a veno in a FC squad that wouldnt amply (i whispered her a lot of times) just because she didnt want her charm to tick... o.o sorry but that was stupid.. if you dont want your charm to tick either max your fox form skill (20% use of mp) or dont use a charm at all. That was completely fail.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lvl 95 archer tanked my whole fb 79, good geared, but definitely not +12 everything. first two bossess by accident (he stole aggro) last three were planned, barb just gave up and switched to human. at low 80s i could easily solo heal archer tanking 79 bossess, and everyone was happy. the only dangerous moment is when someone steals aggro - because i have to notice it fast and switch from previous tank, especially if new tank is squishy. if i _expect_ someone to tank i just stack heals on them from the beginning, and squad gives them time to get a hold on aggro.
tank is whoever can hold aggro. healer is whoever can keep tank alive. dd is whoever deals damage. as long as squad gets job done im ok with not typical roles. what about you?

Level 95, are you freaking serious? If you went back to the discussion you took that comment out of context from you'll realize we were talking about a comparison against same level specialists (barbs). I can tank fb39 without a pet if a cleric heals me, does this make me a tanker?

@Ilenka; A DD that steals aggro is a noob even if he can tank. Who's tanking should be discussed beforehand with cleric, otherwise you're risking a wipe.

And really, that level difference allows you to take on other roles doesn't qualify as breaking class boundaries...

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »

Try a wiz with 16k pdef and 11k hp. Tanks most bosses just fine - I regularly tank bh99. Obviously a wizzy or archer doesn't have the aggro skills of a barb, but tbh most barbs struggle containing aggro from endgame archers / wizzies (lolz, I hope Vilkass reads this, he'll know what I mean:P)

A wiz with 16k pdef and 11k hp is a heavy cash shopper. Wonder what a Demon barb would do with those resources...


Range is a fair point, but only useful in certain specific circumstances. Experience? Down to the player imho

Range is the best advantage advantage you can have when pulling, there's also speed btw. As for experience i've never seen someone failing a pull with Zeal run away from the squad which is what a good veno would do.Did you know clerics can pull with cyclone? Do you think that's a good idea? Venos are specialists, they can handle the job better than anybody else.


Here you're just wrong. I'm not saying that overall a cleric is a better healer, but a wiz with high mag is actually able to heal more per cast with Dew lvl 11 than a cleric, albeit non-stackable. Also, using heal in sutra allows a wiz to out-heal a cleric MASSIVELY over a short period of time. I'm not going to even mentioned sage Dew gives a chance to heal 100% HP as it's so low, but again there are plenty of times a Wizzy has healed the tank in bh99/TT3-3 before now

I never meant to say Wizzies can't heal, just that they aren't as good as clerics. I would like to see you outheal a same level Regeneration Aura (not to mention the dmg reduction, the Hot effect or the AoE) also, healer as a role does include some other jobs (res, purify) you simply can't provide for a squad.


Fist BM could be argued to be an extreme variation itself, as to get the most out of it LA/puredex is the way to go.

Even if not taken to an extreme it should still outdamage barbs. And i see you chose to leave Sins out of it. Anyway, what i did was compare amongst extreme builds (alll with attack interval gears).

You are on sanctuary server - throw me a PM and I'll demonstrate what I'm talking aboutb:laugh

b:lipcurl I already have my playtime fully occupied and have no time to waste with settling forums discussions. Sorry. I myself will be the first to welcome a Wizzie in squad as a healer if he can handle the job. You seem to be missing the point. That Morning Dew outheals most clerics spells it's balanced with it's long channeling. Yes, you can use Sutra but not reliably enough you can take over a same level cleric as healer.

Likewise the very extreme tanking jobs are better handled by a barb than any other class.

And Earthflame has a cooldown which won't allow you to pull as fast (and because of range as safe) as a veno.

It's good that you can push the boundaries for your class but claiming you can do a better job than the specialist crosses the line of arrogance into hubris...

Edit; Double post, my bad.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Level 95, are you freaking serious? If you went back to the discussion you took that comment out of context from you'll realize we were talking about a comparison against same level specialists (barbs). I can tank fb39 without a pet if a cleric heals me, does this make me a tanker?

as i clearly said MY FB 79. i was 80, rest of squad was 90+. ALL OF THEM. and all had gear and skill. as they were people who helped me a lot i wanted to give them something nice with that fb - both CoD exp and rep and their own BH run done at the same time.
so in my previous post i was talking about lvl 90 barb deciding its not worth it to fight for aggro with lvl 95 archer. because he knew very well jazz CAN tank it and with only one of clerics present healing him too. imo i wasnt talking out of context at all, if you still do think so - well, anybody is entitled to an opinion.
as for your fb 39 example - yes. if you go and tank 39 without pet then you are a tank. exactly the same as i am a tank when i occassionally help with 29, 39, or 59. with magic bossess im pretty good tank and lvls 40-70 cant really steal aggro from me either.
but from my previous posts you should have known i dont fit into boxes all that well

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

as i clearly said MY FB 79. i was 80, rest of squad was 90+. ALL OF THEM. and all had gear and skill. as they were people who helped me a lot i wanted to give them something nice with that fb - both CoD exp and rep and their own BH run done at the same time.
so in my previous post i was talking about lvl 90 barb deciding its not worth it to fight for aggro with lvl 95 archer. because he knew very well jazz CAN tank it and with only one of clerics present healing him too. imo i wasnt talking out of context at all, if you still do think so - well, anybody is entitled to an opinion.
as for your fb 39 example - yes. if you go and tank 39 without pet then you are a tank. exactly the same as i am a tank when i occassionally help with 29, 39, or 59. with magic bossess im pretty good tank and lvls 40-70 cant really steal aggro from me either.
but from my previous posts you should have known i dont fit into boxes all that well

Level 95 archer is full 15 levels above 79. And chances are he had good gears, am i wrong? Can he take on the jobs lvl 95 barbs can barely handle?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

this thread is flame bait it should be locked.

i figure if mine thread is, all threads of this genre should be as well. genius mods.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i figure if mine thread is, all threads of this genre should be as well. genius mods.

LOL, i actually agreed with half the things you posted on that thread. too bad.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL, i actually agreed with half the things you posted on that thread. too bad.

i know, what are half of these threads still doing up if mine was very similar in nature

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Level 95 archer is full 15 levels above 79. And chances are he had good gears, am i wrong? Can he take on the jobs lvl 95 barbs can barely handle?

not 100% sure on this, never was in delta myself, but barb doesnt tank bossess there. definitely that was true for gamma. here. b:surrender

but im afraid this is a big off topic / flame already. OP was talking about ppl getting pushed into most typical roles by ignorance and narrow mindedness of others. the point im trying to make is there are other options for tank / healer / puller / dd than barb / cleric / veno / arch+wiz+bm. i always believed whatewer works is fine, and can be both efficient and fun too.
also, i consider telling me what skills im supposed to use and why what i used was wrong just plain rude. if i dont know particular instance / boss id ask for advice myself. if i know it well (can be measured by my job getting done, and done well) - either keep silent or if you really cant hold it any longer try being very cautious with phrasing.
so: Stop telling others how to play. TYSM.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary

In the end it comes to this: Every role can do more than just their "main" job.

For example:

For starters, everyone can lure (with Zeal genie)

Tideborns:

- Assassins can lure and tank with proper equipment, heals and/or charms.

- Psychics can tank magic bosses and heal (With cooldown... but still)

Also, tideborns in general, being related to fish, can smell (ever realized you were close to the sea just by smelling fish close? ) ... from very far.

Humans:

- Blademasters can tank and even lure (running... although this may lure a big group)

- Wizards can heal (sure, not as good as clerics, but still better than potions)

Also, humans in general, can be prone to... well... die.

Winged Elves:

- Archers can lure (same case as blademasters) and tank

- Clerics can deal damage, tank, and debuff (while debuffing themselves too)

Also, winged elves in general, being related to birds, can become a delicious meal.

Untamed:

- Venomancers can do almost everything (depending on pet) ... except healing or reviving the squad. They can also entertain the squad with their "attributes".

- Barbarians can deal damage and run in front of squad to check on patrolling mobs. They can also entertain the squad (specially the girls) being cute and rolling over.

Also, untamed in general, can bark, meow, whatever animal sound you want, you name it, they'll do it.

Edit: Also, please... Stop telling others to stop telling others how to play. They will do it anyway. But its nice to see people share opinions on forums, so keep the topics coming.

DaWoman - Dreamweaver

Sorry but, what is flame bait, exactly? Never heard the term before.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

DaWoman - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sorry but, what is flame bait, exactly? Never heard the term before.

A thread that is discussing something that is bait for trolls to come in and throw around insults, basically.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

this is one of those nubcake bosses i have in mind actually


oke. nvm
you will understand me when you will start doing something harder than 2-3

Yeah, especially since it's you that mentioned 2-3. b:chuckle

Not very bright are ya? b:bye

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When it comes to talking about venos, this goes for you too.

I'd better go tell every single 80+ veno I've ever FC'd with that I'm never going to FC with them again because they are completely useless, I suppose, if I start following your logic.

As far as the discussion of venos is concerned, may I suggest you stop talking out your ****. My veno alt is perfectly useful without a Herc. The many, many 80+ venos without a Herc I have squadded with were perfectly useful.
Oh, wait. You must be one of these "special" venos, right? You know, the arrogant, ignorant and all round dumbass "I have a Herc, so I must totally be better than you and you are now totally useless" people.

That's awful strange because the 83 magmite veno who I've been dragging along might disagree with you about them having a herc. Like Paramedic, you're chalk full of assumptions and little else. But maybe that's why you're so anal about things is because you're taking your hercless inferiority complex aggression on me, maybe because some people have likely refused to squad with you because you didn't have one. Maybe you can be like Paramedic and declare you're the only smart one over everyone else -- because you see very few 90+ venos without a herc. It's likely because they are a hundredfold more profitable than a magmite or a glacial walker, so keep deluding yourself like him with the pc **** that they aren't really that needed. A herc veno is far more useful and needed than yours.

Roseddesor - Heavens Tear

I got my class,. I do what I want, I do what I want. b:pleased

truekossy

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Level 95, are you freaking serious? If you went back to the discussion you took that comment out of context from you'll realize we were talking about a comparison against same level specialists (barbs). I can tank fb39 without a pet if a cleric heals me, does this make me a tanker?

At level 69, my archer tanked her own Pyro for fb69 over both the barb and herc venos that were in the squad with me. I was also the designated tank for all the areas where there were groups of three or more mobs we didn't want to bother pulling since we had decided to do the run unwined. She was also the one to tank the three sub-bosses in there and enjoyed **** around with aggro on pretty much every regular monster on the way as well as taking the catcher role away from our barb (Aim low/stun are great). In fact, the only reason I didn't try to tank Nob is because of outside interference keeping me from being able to pay full attention. Pole, being pole, is obvious for why I didn't try to tank it.

This is, of course, not counting all the times where said archer tanked not only her own BHs over the designated "tank" class, the times she had to save the squad by becoming the main tank once the designated "tank" class died for whatever reason, the times she's gone off and tanked things that are "impossible" for archers to tank at that level, or the times tanking BHs/FBs/Treasure bosses/etc for friends that were a good deal above her level.



So, yeah... you don't need a Barb/BM to tank something on-level and it's often easier to just let the DD who can yank aggro away, keep the aggro, and stay alive do the tanking instead.

Edit: And before you ask, there was no uber CS gear involved... not to mention that refining anything to above +3 at that level (which you can do easily with mirages alone) would be too much of a waste for me to even consider it.