Sage Archer or Demon Archer?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

No it won't o.o our shield isn't percentage based. As for flipping a coin I will probably be doing that soon as I can't decide between sage and demon because it's much more balanced for a wizard. Strictly talking pvp for an archer, demon wins when you factor in every situation possible in pvp.

I don't know exactly how it works but am sure demon shell can absorb over 1000 damage of the hit that pops it (aka the first hit).

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

aaasssttyypoooo

Legerity - Sanctuary

Shell skills are a little weird (even the 79skill for clerics). From experience:

ex. Winged Shell has a capacity of 1000.
Winged Shell absorbs approximately 80% of the damage and the absorption % increases as the damage increases.

If the foe deals 500 before factoring shell, we take ~100 and the shell has still got ~600 to absorb before popping. The foe hits me again for 500 and I take ~100 again. The shell has an excess of 200 still. After the third hit, the shell pops and I take another ~100 although slightly higher than previous 100s.

If the foe deals 7000 before factoring shell, we take ~500 (around this figure but need to test) and the shell pops in 1 hit.

Regardless of damage, the shell is there to guarantee survival against what might be a one shot. I have ran into WBs which have failed to 1 hit me with shell on.

I could run an experiment (similar to Gloom) on Winged Shell to explore the mechanics behind this skill if anyone is interested.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

on HT i know Teapot is demon...you should ask Teapot (ElenaCostel) about her demon experience. b:chuckle

and it's not 90% increase to weapon attack over 1% increase to crit, that's misleading, and implies demon archers lose their weapon attack from bow mastery and merely gain 1% crit.

This is what ecatomb says, but then again maybe its not accurate. Either way I would rather choose something that is consistent as opposed to something like blazing arrow that only works for a minute after its cast. A lot of demon skills have a time limit. Thats what mostly made me go sage.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I promise you you did not use demon aim low in levels 40-70. Demon wingspan is awesome since it gives a free shield which is great for aoe grinding. Aim low and wing pledge arent all that better in there demon variants. Thats why its not important to get them.

I didn't say anything about demon aim low during lvls 40-70. I said I used the skill aim low a lot between those levels and that after lvl 70 I rarely ever use it. The fact remains that some people enjoy using different skills than others. We are all different and as someone else stated, for PVE purposes it doesn't matter. Play what you enjoy, aim and shoot. I don't gotta worry about any1 ganking me, as I"m not a PvP player.

Legerity - Sanctuary

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is what ecatomb says, but then again maybe its not accurate. Either way I would rather choose something that is consistent as opposed to something like blazing arrow that only works for a minute after its cast. A lot of demon skills have a time limit. Thats what mostly made me go sage.

Demon Blazing Arrows works for 15minutes. It is just that the bonus is raised to 70% from 50% in the first 20s of casting. The remaining 14minutes 40seconds are 50%.

Sage I assume, has the same time limit but with 60% for the entire 15minutes.

Like you pointed out, most of Demon skills are time based which is what allows them to inflict spike damage. Spike damage is what wins in PvPs which is why people favour Demon Archers more in the PvP world.

Asterelle pointed out that Demon Aim Low and Winged Pledge should be removed because it is largely not what people base the cultivation on which is why she believes it's not "important" in "the list". I don't blame Asterelle though as I agree with her aswell.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, I have some disagreements with your post.

First off, I also play a sage archer and I would choose sage again. But I think you have missed out on some advantages demons have.

I am not going to bother repeating everything you said that I agree with, I am only going to bother to mention issues I think you miss-handled that put demons in a bad light:

Demon spark gives a bigger attack rate increase than red bubble, sage spark gives less of a damage reduction than blue bubble. So, right there, demons have an advantage. (I know you gave demons the advantage on their spark eruption but you did not mention this downside for sages.)

The bonus sages get from bow mastery is based on equipment damage -- it adds with your dex bonus and does not multiply. Meanwhile, a critical hit bonus multiplies with your dex bonus AND with your constant damage from skills (except for DoT skills, which mostly no one uses).

You miss out on this issue with critical hits on some other skills also -- critical hits increase skill damage (on average) and also cancel your opponent's healing abilities sometimes. This is also an issue in the context of that added constant damage demons get on some skills.

You also missed out the advantage of having a full 30 seconds of mana regeneration that demons get from winged shell in PvE.

I was not going to mention anything in favor of sages, but cooldown and casting time happen together with winged pledge, so with sage winged pledge you can literally spam the skill losing only a tenth of a second vs doing something else.

Also, that level 5 winged shell that demons get from wingspan only absorbs 425 hp before it pops but I am pretty sure that it will reduce damage from the attack which popped it by 80%. I have not tested this, but I think that is how it works.

Winged blessing is a class buff and some people that you work with can use the extra speed boost. (For example, some venos like having some extra speed when they lure. A few tenths of a m/s might sometimes make the difference between them being hit or taking a charm tick, or not.)

That is all I can think of.

buff give +5%(no? I cant check at) speed, based to ur base speed and eq, so that really pretty low.

wing barrier and mana.
In pve against mobs u dont spam skills, against boss same, +absorb their better.
(and i love the spamable melee skill)

aoe melee demon skili is nice.
3rd spark is both good. In shorter demon deal more dmg this true 2.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

*grabs popcorn and a beer.

Finally something interesting. Keep it up guys, I learned a thing or two. Ty.

*taking notes and trying stuff on private servers on my uber awesome archer

Kristoph - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

No it won't o.o our shield isn't percentage based. As for flipping a coin I will probably be doing that soon as I can't decide between sage and demon because it's much more balanced for a wizard. Strictly talking pvp for an archer, demon wins when you factor in every situation possible in pvp.

I don't know what it's based on, but I know the 79 cleric skill and pretty much every other kind of skill/pot that absorbs damage will absorb a huge chunk out of whatever's hitting you. If something hits you for 100k damage it won't be lowered to 97-99k, it'll be cut down a lot more.


And yeah picking either cult as a wizard sucks balls. In the end I really didn't care, both are good, so I went and used a coin. Don't regret it either, though I do always wonder what demon would be like.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

I don't know what it's based on, but I know the 79 cleric skill and pretty much every other kind of skill/pot that absorbs damage will absorb a huge chunk out of whatever's hitting you. If something hits you for 100k damage it won't be lowered to 97-99k, it'll be cut down a lot more.


And yeah picking either cult as a wizard sucks balls. In the end I really didn't care, both are good, so I went and used a coin. Don't regret it either, though I do always wonder what demon would be like.

(cleric lv79 skill, 10min cooldown,instant casting, 60% reduction[both mattack and pattack], i tryed, kinda nice with combine barrier b:laugh)

archer skill in pve against mob is handle nice ammount of dmg, in aoe boss/wizz case 1 hit only,its dmg depend, but yes u get x% of dmg,not absorb the 1st 1k dmg and shield off (but every wizz hit more than 1k on archer, this worth more with higher refined ornament agaist bm examplein pvp, or a last chance like for sin but this eat nearly half spark)

Mercinary - Heavens Tear

My question is this, I have a crit rate of 22% right now and from what I heard Stun and Serrated do not stack with the crit rate so thats 32% crit. Now within that 10 seconds I would normally cast Quickshot to maximize the effect and have 6 seconds of 33% extra speed.

Thats casting 2 skills which I think most would agree, (note the I think, if im wrong feel free to argue) would result in too much damage to you within the casting time.

Of course in pvp I believe thats impractical so you'll most likely be casting quickshot or stun (I'm assuming most archers will use stun instead of serrated arrow because stun stuns)

Now for the sake of this example I'll try to maximize both abilities of each side... If the demon casts quickshot or stun they will have to move at least 2 meters closer to the sage archer which is maybe 1/4 a sec but its enough for the sage to get the advantage and stun the demon, paralize them move 2 meters back and attack while the other archer is helpless other than to cast resist attack spells which will kill all the demons chi.

Now if a archer were attacking a non-squishie (Heavy Armor) its fast weak attack vs. normal strong attack. One of the advantages of this is the Demon chi stealer against a BM, BM's rely on chi and timing your skill right would send a BM in a rage because they missed their stunlock, Barbs well you just stay the hell away from them XD but because of their high hp you need to be able to deal constant damage which Frost Arrow being a elemental attack now in sage form allows. But this is were Demon also shines, as said before demons are liked for their spike damage and it will not always cause a death in this case but enough to tick a barb/bm's charm and others to finish it off.

An archer vs a non squishie I'd probably say demon would have the advantage due to the faster attack rate quickshot gives if it takes effect 50% chance is nice but if it fails you just lost potential to do more damage. Here sage stun has an advantage because the extra second is that extra attack, or that extra step back to paralize with aim low and leave them stuck there for 8 secs unable to hit you because of your extra range.

I am personally for sage but dont want to make the wrong choice in the end if I like to pvp, but considering the strategies Demon is to stand there and deal as much as possible before they die, whileist Sage is more strategy oriented in avoiding damage.

Also btw random rant Wizards! Just because I can stand there and take your attack while im sealed doesnt mean I'm going go... I will run back until I am not sealed >.< That is all.

(p.s. I wrote this really late so I apologize for my grammar or stupid comments on here, I am somewhat tired XD)

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My question is this, I have a crit rate of 22% right now and from what I heard Stun and Serrated do not stack with the crit rate so thats 32% crit. Now within that 10 seconds I would normally cast Quickshot to maximize the effect and have 6 seconds of 33% extra speed.

no 22% and 10% buff not = 32% chance for crit and 30% speed not 33%

crit not stacking but anyway sharp + stun casting not 1sec

One of the advantages of this is the Demon chi stealer against a BM, BM's rely on chi and timing your skill right would send a BM in a rage because they missed their stunlock

true but still after 89 not too much chi loss when u got 399 but nice if target dont got chi

Frost Arrow being a elemental attack now in sage form allows

dont think that hurt (similiar than ur metal without metal debuff and anyway a good barb could get more mdef than u)

angellicdeity

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My question is this, I have a crit rate of 22% right now and from what I heard Stun and Serrated do not stack with the crit rate so thats 32% crit. Now within that 10 seconds I would normally cast Quickshot to maximize the effect and have 6 seconds of 33% extra speed.

Thats casting 2 skills which I think most would agree, (note the I think, if im wrong feel free to argue) would result in too much damage to you within the casting time.

Of course in pvp I believe thats impractical so you'll most likely be casting quickshot or stun (I'm assuming most archers will use stun instead of serrated arrow because stun stuns)

Now for the sake of this example I'll try to maximize both abilities of each side... If the demon casts quickshot or stun they will have to move at least 2 meters closer to the sage archer which is maybe 1/4 a sec but its enough for the sage to get the advantage and stun the demon, paralize them move 2 meters back and attack while the other archer is helpless other than to cast resist attack spells which will kill all the demons chi.

Now if a archer were attacking a non-squishie (Heavy Armor) its fast weak attack vs. normal strong attack. One of the advantages of this is the Demon chi stealer against a BM, BM's rely on chi and timing your skill right would send a BM in a rage because they missed their stunlock, Barbs well you just stay the hell away from them XD but because of their high hp you need to be able to deal constant damage which Frost Arrow being a elemental attack now in sage form allows. But this is were Demon also shines, as said before demons are liked for their spike damage and it will not always cause a death in this case but enough to tick a barb/bm's charm and others to finish it off.

An archer vs a non squishie I'd probably say demon would have the advantage due to the faster attack rate quickshot gives if it takes effect 50% chance is nice but if it fails you just lost potential to do more damage. Here sage stun has an advantage because the extra second is that extra attack, or that extra step back to paralize with aim low and leave them stuck there for 8 secs unable to hit you because of your extra range.

I am personally for sage but dont want to make the wrong choice in the end if I like to pvp, but considering the strategies Demon is to stand there and deal as much as possible before they die, whileist Sage is more strategy oriented in avoiding damage.

Also btw random rant Wizards! Just because I can stand there and take your attack while im sealed doesnt mean I'm going go... I will run back until I am not sealed >.< That is all.

(p.s. I wrote this really late so I apologize for my grammar or stupid comments on here, I am somewhat tired XD)

Believe it or not, 2 meters doesn't make a difference in PvP.


In fact you'll often find that due to lag your enemies are 3 meters closer than you think.



Sharpened Tooth and Stunning arrow both provide critical boosts. They dont stack - but reducing HP and gaining 10% critical is worth it.


If quickshot activates - with a CV bow you are hitting 6 shots in 6 seconds.



Most of the sage archers posting that their passive damage actually makes sage better damage dealers dont understand that reducing attack interval is the only way to deal more damage.


Reduce interval, increase critical rates is how archers were intended to deal damage.







And.... It should be known that more survivability doesn't mean anything if you cant kill your opponites.






As an archer to be equal with other classes you already have to spend more money. As a sage archer you have to spend much more money than a demon archer.

Smobo - Heavens Tear

angellicdeity wrote: »

Most of the sage archers posting that their passive damage actually makes sage better damage dealers dont understand that reducing attack interval is the only way to deal more damage.

...erm no.

Damage is typically measured in dps, which can also be represented as d/s. The two ways to increase the value of the fraction d/s is to increase d, or reduce s. So yes, reducing attack interval (s) increases damage, but increaseing the damage per attack (d) also makes it rise.

The statement, "The attack interval reducing skills a demon archer has outweighs the passive damage increase skills a sage archer has." may or may not be true, but what you said there is false.

Devoted - Lost City

Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...erm no.

Damage is typically measured in dps, which can also be represented as d/s. The two ways to increase the value of the fraction d/s is to increase d, or reduce s. So yes, reducing attack interval (s) increases damage, but increaseing the damage per attack (d) also makes it rise.

I don't think they meant literally. The small boost from sage mastery won't increase damage like +30% attack speed and +10% crit demon has.

AndyNagato - Lost City

demon > sage, all there is to it!

crit bonuses, attack speed bonuses, better defensive moves... they can be outlined in other peoples posts, but that is what an archer is all about. demon is the obious answer

Smobo - Heavens Tear

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

I don't think they meant literally. The small boost from sage mastery won't increase damage like +30% attack speed and +10% crit demon has.

I know, it was more the word "only" which kinda irked me.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

AndyNagato - Lost City wrote: »

demon > sage, all there is to it!

crit bonuses, attack speed bonuses, better defensive moves... they can be outlined in other peoples posts, but that is what an archer is all about. demon is the obious answer

ofc, if u read just that post.
Sage ea already said alot times mainly pve boss killing oriented in dungeon but just spam the boss with stun and sharp For ur crit and quickshot for speed xD

Quilue - Sanctuary

yus in carebear land all you do is TWs...so you wouldn't worry about heavies as much.

Mercinary - Heavens Tear

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

no 22% and 10% buff not = 32% chance for crit and 30% speed not 33%

crit not stacking but anyway sharp + stun casting not 1sec

Then what is the % chance of crit if the buff add's 10% crit? And I was tired XD

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

true but still after 89 not too much chi loss when u got 399 but nice if target dont got chi

Agreed, but its an advantage somewhat

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

dont think that hurt (similiar than ur metal without metal debuff and anyway a good barb could get more mdef than u)

Agreed, any character can get more mdef than an archer, but that doesnt mean I'll pelt a barb with physical attacks when they have 5x more def than mdef (just a exageration dunno the actual stats of a barb)

angellicdeity wrote: »

Believe it or not, 2 meters doesn't make a difference in PvP.

Agreed in most cases you're nowhere near your maximum range for this example I tried to get the best case senario for both so imagine the 2 archers as far as possible and have to run up to eachother, I doubt either archer would have -channeling so both would have the same cast time the sage would cast first due to the extra range. (Not gonna bother with windcatcher because trying to keep example even with both archers having the same equips.

angellicdeity wrote: »

In fact you'll often find that due to lag your enemies are 3 meters closer than you think.

If you lag that means so do they so you're 3 meters away too.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Sharpened Tooth and Stunning arrow both provide critical boosts. They dont stack - but reducing HP and gaining 10% critical is worth it.

Archers do so much damage they'll probably take down 10% in 1 hit unless its a barb.

angellicdeity wrote: »

If quickshot activates - with a CV bow you are hitting 6 shots in 6 seconds.

(probably blind but whats a CV bow)

angellicdeity wrote: »

Most of the sage archers posting that their passive damage actually makes sage better damage dealers dont understand that reducing attack interval is the only way to deal more damage.

Thats fine and all when you're killing a boss that has enough hp for a DPS to deal that damage, but when you're dealing with things that have the ability to die in a few hits I believe a DPH would be better because you dont have that time to deal more damage.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Reduce interval, increase critical rates is how archers were intended to deal damage

.

Agreed but that doesnt mean crud if your target has such a high phys def that attack speed becomes worse than casting 2 spells.

angellicdeity wrote: »

And.... It should be known that more survivability doesn't mean anything if you cant kill your opponites.

You're an archer you deal alot of damage already as it is.

angellicdeity wrote: »

As an archer to be equal with other classes you already have to spend more money. As a sage archer you have to spend much more money than a demon archer.

I believe the high demand of demon skills are more expensive

Merwen - Lost City

Either way I think demon is best for PVP and PVP x_X I read all of Devoted's stuff and even now I can tell we need those bloody crits!

Quilue - Sanctuary

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Archers do so much damage they'll probably take down 10% in 1 hit unless its a barb.

uh...thats actually terrible damage when they have a charm on and when you have limited time to attack in between defending yourself - especially considering how slow archers attack

the only saving grace of archer is when you can crit repeatedly and your 500's on a robe magically turn into a quick succession of 1000's and the robe magically dies. demon stun and demon quickshot has a higher chance to let you do that. that or +10 your weapon.

I believe the high demand of demon skills are more expensive

the only demon skills that are expensive are the ones that are worth it. you don't see people paying 10m for a demon frost arrow - it's probably just as cheap as the sage version. you see people paying 10m for a demon quickshot (although i hear its more than that on LC *prods Devoted*), you see people paying 10m for a demon stun. in fact, sage deadly, sage STA, are expensive as well.

AngleSnipe - Heavens Tear

Demon spark = sexy, period the end, no better reason other than that to go demon b:laugh

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(probably blind but whats a CV bow)

CV = Crescent Valley => Lunar Glade

CV Bow = Heaven Shatterer

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Originally Posted by angellicdeity View Post
And.... It should be known that more survivability doesn't mean anything if you cant kill your opponites.

or u die before u can use ur "deadly" skills b:cutb:chuckle

Then what is the % chance of crit if the buff add's 10% crit? And I was tired XD

its DONT stack with ur crit rate in character window only a new factor with 10% chance for crit so when ur base crit rate higher and higher this advatage lower and lower because this not same when u got 30% and use skill then u get 40% crit.

you see people paying 10m for a demon quickshot

nice to this server, because in pw my its over 100-150m (this was from forum) and in pw ms could be 50m-75m+ and frost arrow is 100k for sage and 1m for demon, sorry but i think a bit over priced because true its good but not op and still not similiar than for veno the nix

the only saving grace of archer is when you can crit repeatedly and your 500's on a robe magically turn into a quick succession of 1000's and the robe magically dies. demon stun and demon quickshot has a higher chance to let you do that. that or +10 your weapon.

true, i actually love the take aim with xbow and i pray for crit what with ~30% enough often and could do deadly too if somebody use in time.

situation demon and sage skills but sucks if u dont have enough good weapon agaist a decent refinned enemy.

yus in carebear land all you do is TWs...so you wouldn't worry about heavies as much.

and kos

Mercinary - Heavens Tear

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

or u die before u can use ur "deadly" skills b:cutb:chuckle

My point, you need to be able to survive to get a hit in

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

its DONT stack with ur crit rate in character window only a new factor with 10% chance for crit so when ur base crit rate higher and higher this advatage lower and lower because this not same when u got 30% and use skill then u get 40% crit.

oh... so since my crit's 22% it add's another 10% chance of that?... so basically i'd be adding 2.2%?

Devoted - Lost City

it's +10% on your base crit not +10% of your base crit..

if you have 30% crit and use st or stun you will have 40% not 33%..

take aim is a pretty worthless skill endgame because it won't bypass any geared persons charm (we aren't built to bypass charms anyways) and using quickshot here is much more effective.

For killing barbs - your small increase in metal attacks and slight increase in speed isn't much of a benefit against killing barbs/heavies. What kills barbs is crits. Archer metal attacks are somewhat counter-intuitive to the way archers were designed - slow metal attacks is bad for a class that is all about high dps, not to mention our long cast times don't even get the benefit of +xxx% weapon damage. Really, you might be able to chain metal attacks for a longer time but by the time demon runs out of metal attacks 10 seconds will usually be up. The main difference you will see in a controlled test of sage/demon archer vs. barb is that demon will be kiting the barb and trying to create the perfect conditions for a kill (ie. stunned/paralyzed causing a heiro tick and you with +10% crit) giving you 10 seconds to kill him with your 4 metal attacks and high crit rate where as sage will more likely kite with metal attacks hoping for an initial crit before they try to beat the 10 seconds.

The difference between sage and demon on killing heavies is more about timing. If timed right demon will have a better chance at killing the barb due to the easier chance to crit where as the sage archer will be able to continuously unload magic attacks hoping for a string of crits but will have a tougher time due to having to kite.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Since when? Crit buff allways was a aditional factor and never stacked with ur current crit rate.

Take aim effective with 3rd spark and genie against robe (only against wizz less effective) around 8k hp with lower refined gear if u crit after the target have ~50%hp,

i never meet a 95+ charmed barb who die in 10sec or with 4crit when they got around 15k-20k hp.(in 1vs1)
if u just stay and hit then u need very much luck or a dumb barb opponent who just see he die.

angellicdeity

I've been busy and havent read this forum until now...


But....

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then what is the % chance of crit if the buff add's 10% crit? And I was tired XD

With 30% Base its 40%.


In 6 shots using the summation from the distribution x ~ Bin(0.40,6) you get a 90+ percent chance you will critical.


with 10% less it drastically affects the distribution.

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Agreed, any character can get more mdef than an archer, but that doesnt mean I'll pelt a barb with physical attacks when they have 5x more def than mdef (just a exageration dunno the actual stats of a barb)

If you ever get to the end-game you'll realize that the amount of time you spend channelling and casting the only 3 metal skills you have - you would have dealt much more damage with critical hits.

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Agreed in most cases you're nowhere near your maximum range for this example I tried to get the best case senario for both so imagine the 2 archers as far as possible and have to run up to eachother, I doubt either archer would have -channeling so both would have the same cast time the sage would cast first due to the extra range. (Not gonna bother with windcatcher because trying to keep example even with both archers having the same equips.



If you lag that means so do they so you're 3 meters away too.

If your 3 meters away your outside of their range - thus they cannot hit. I actually enjoy sage archers who think their 2 meter range matters. All a demon archer needs to do is move back while their channelling their aim-low or Stunning arrow - it will cause the skill to be interrupted.


Albeit aim-low is tougher they'll have wasted a spark.

If its stunning arrow - they are without a stun.


If your on the offensive as an archer - fighting at max-range is amongst one of the worst things you can do.

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Archers do so much damage they'll probably take down 10% in 1 hit unless its a barb.

I think you are dillusional my friend. Let me know what you think when you reach 97, 98, 99, or 100.


You'll find out your damage on other classess significantly drops as they all get their sub-end game gears.


If it isn't a shock to you already - your damage will range from the 100-800's or 900's if you dont have the money to refine your weapon.


You will never see 4 digits unless its a critical - even on arcane classes. Wizards have stone barrier, and clerics have enough buffs and magic shell to keep your damage in the double or triple digits.


If you can shell out to +10 your weapon then you might see 4 digit damages again.

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thats fine and all when you're killing a boss that has enough hp for a DPS to deal that damage, but when you're dealing with things that have the ability to die in a few hits I believe a DPH would be better because you dont have that time to deal more damage.

I think you fail to understand how physical damage classes deal damage.


Barbarians and Blademasters deal damage relying on :

1) Sacrificial Strike or Beserk
2) Attack Speed
3) Damage Amplifications

A combination of 1 and 3 produce hits that can 1 shot or nearly kill people.

But without number 2 they cant kill anyone that survives the combination of 1 and 3.



Archers dont deal anymore than any other physical class. You can say increasing damage per hit is better - but the increase doesn't come from the Sage passive skill. 15% more damage than a Demon isn't much.


As far as PvP is concerned:

15% of 100 is 15 damage!

Multiply that by 6 for the average amount of damage you do end-game without a +10 CV Bow and you get 90 damage!


Meanwhile: a critical hit will produce up to 600 more damage.

Clear winner?


Archers are about critical hits and attack speed.


The more attack speed the more chances to critical given the same amount of time....

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1
Agreed but that doesnt mean crud if your target has such a high phys def that attack speed becomes worse than casting 2 spells.



You're an archer you deal alot of damage already as it is.



I believe the high demand of demon skills are more expensive

No it doesn't end game. The time you spend casting 2 spells you can deal much more damage with critical hits with increased attack speed.


Your metal skills have a long cooldown. You might be able to tick a charm with them - but you certainly arent going to kill someone with them end-game.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Mercinary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

oh... so since my crit's 22% it add's another 10% chance of that?... so basically i'd be adding 2.2%?

lol no.

x= 22% chance ur base crit
y=10% chance from buff

same like veno 79 debuffs every 4 debuff got 25% but different from each other, could be executed both or nothing because different case each debuff.

ave enough buffs and magic shell to keep your damage in the double or triple digits.

lol the double digit a bit low since on full buffed cleric i never hurt less than 500 dmg with my old tt90+3 (on tt99 set cleric) and with tt99 if i deal more then i dont see when i hit 2 digit?

Your metal skills have a long cooldown. You might be able to tick a charm with them - but you certainly arent going to kill someone with them end-game.

spamable and with crit enough good.

Barbarians and Blademasters deal damage relying on :

1) Sacrificial Strike or Beserk
2) Attack Speed
3) Damage Amplifications

A combination of 1 and 3 produce hits that can 1 shot or nearly kill people.

But without number 2 they cant kill anyone that survives the combination of 1 and 3.

how many light armor and arcane suvive the crit+zerk+armageddon? or just zerk armageddon?

Archers dont deal anymore than any other physical class. You can say increasing damage per hit is better - but the increase doesn't come from the Sage passive skill. 15% more damage than a Demon isn't much.

+10%(=20%eq) fire too because not too often u kill somebody in 20sec if we talk about barb.

but still is mainly for pve effective.

sage try gain time from distance, longer stun, less maxhp debuff and from genie.

I dont said demon not better in pvp but fact in pw the eq&cooperation in group pk/tw the most important and sage still good in pvp and not fail like few ppl said who never made a sage 99 or 100 in official server(not in 1000x exp **** server).

Sage is nice dungeons and i grind alot tt and etc for my alts and for this i use my archer mainly insted barb/cleric or wizz.

I love my archer,dont have nothing wrong only a bit different game style and orientation and sage is fail is BS with big letters.

Quilue - Sanctuary

hahaha double digits and low triple digits on clerics under certain buffs sound about right. we're talking wings, shells, and guardian light. clerics don't have barrier or foxform but their temporary buffs can make them very durable under fire.