Psychics Vs Wizzies

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Falacer - Harshlands wrote: »

You do know classes change over time right?

So a wizard may be stronger then a psy at lvl 80, but a psy may get crazy strong after lvl 59, or lvl 79.

Just like a wizard get ssuper strong after 79.



Take that into fact when you start to claim a class is better then another at only lvl 45 o.o

I look at the skill tree of Psy which has nothing that is going to indicate the damage is gonna go up and overshot the Mages.

Psy Basic skills itself are capped at 100% weapon damage, which limited output. Therefore, it lead me to believe that Psy, even with Voodoo, the output for both basic skills will rival 1 shot of Stone rain / Sand storm.

However, for same number of shots, the Psy are not going to win at all. Besides, Psy do not have anything else to boost their damage for now except Black Voodoo.

I took Earth tree of Wizards because that is the common element for both classes that does the heaviest damage.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I look at the skill tree of Psy which has nothing that is going to indicate the damage is gonna go up and overshot the Mages.

Psy Basic skills itself are capped at 100% weapon damage, which limited output. Therefore, it lead me to believe that Psy, even with Voodoo, the output for both basic skills will rival 1 shot of Stone rain / Sand storm.

However, for same number of shots, the Psy are not going to win at all. Besides, Psy do not have anything else to boost their damage for now except Black Voodoo.

I took Earth tree of Wizards because that is the common element for both classes that does the heaviest damage.

You cant compare stone rain with our level 1 nuke. You get stone rain at level 6 and our earth nuke is level 1 (like wizard pyrogram). Sandburst blast is comparable with sandstorm though. Aqua Impact with gush. Earth Vector with mountian seize. You cant compare a poke skill with a nuke, thats not fair. Its like comparing a broke down rusty car with a new mercedes

Joshcja - Sanctuary

psy damage is HUGE till level 30 then every maq DD but venos pass you up easily

even....clerics

many of you are making these assumptions based of the fact that psys get legendery weapons verry easily at low levels

draw up a comparison with a cleric/wizzie/veno using unrifined unsharded wheele of fate vs psy with lvl 43 souldrill even including attack level+ it dosent compare at all

just throwing that out there

Szol - Harshlands

wrong






muuuuuu

Falacer - Harshlands

Okay your going for straight damage output and saying wizzies beat psychics.


It depends on the playability of the player and the skills and what they do. Psychics have debuffs to increase cooldown time of charms, lower pot effects, and lower self heals. They make it so when you hit them you get damage, Wizzies just hit like a freaking bulldozer.

it depends how good you are playing your class, and what skills you choose to level, and what skills you decide to use on a certain class or a certain player depending on their skills.

(example- Use diminished vigor (lowers effects of self heals, charms, pots) on clerics since they absolutely love to ironheart)-)

Piliener - Lost City

Well all I can say is how many buffs do wizzies have again?

Falacer - Harshlands

Piliener - Lost City wrote: »

Well all I can say is how many buffs do wizzies have again?

Well All I can say is

how many buffs do wizzies have again?

For one elemental def at a time? b:chuckle


You buff water, I hit you with earth :P

You buff fire, well its pointless since I have no fire attacks b:chuckle

You buff earth I hit you with water :P

You use your little water weapon buff? I'm ARCANE, I already have high elemental def b:chuckle

Chershir - Harshlands

i read his 'wiz buff' comment as implying that wizzes have much less buff capabilities than psys do. This fits into the larger conversation by pointing out again that the two classes have fulfill different roles. wiz pewpew everything, while psy exploit buff/debuff/element weaknesses.
i think it would be neat if it we figured out how a wiz/psy pair could knock the barb/cleric pair off its high horse...
ps- the frostblade buff is pointless for wiz, as it only works on physical attacks

Falacer - Harshlands

Chershir - Harshlands wrote: »

i read his 'wiz buff' comment as implying that wizzes have much less buff capabilities than psys do. This fits into the larger conversation by pointing out again that the two classes have fulfill different roles. wiz pewpew everything, while psy exploit buff/debuff/element weaknesses.
i think it would be neat if it we figured out how a wiz/psy pair could knock the barb/cleric pair off its high horse...
ps- the frostblade buff is pointless for wiz, as it only works on physical attacks

Exactly.

Two different classes.

Two different roles.

blitz333

1- do you forgot wizzies's 1000%elemental def buff??
2-will power on the physic + blades storm and you are a dead

don't make me laugh, the psy is a supporter class(useless),wiz can do the DD or the PKER, PKER i said so i think a psy can't beat down a wiz.

P.S. i can oneshot a cleric with a blades storm why i can't do it on a psy??

Cheaper - Heavens Tear

you guys are comparing only damage output and forget that psychic is probably not meant to be played the same way as a wizard. You psychics are all still too low level to know how to play them best

they have many debuffs, like increasing channeling time on an enemy or lowering all heal effects. Many buffs as well, like the ability to stun and return damage upon being hit. Looking at this suggest that a pure magic build is probably bad for a psychic as they will not be able to take the most advantage of their buffs.

Pure magic psychic with black voodoo buff going on. yea you wont last
high hp build with white voodoo and buffs going on. can that psychic be killed?

just pointing out that maybe if you succeed in beating a wizard in raw damage, you will probably fail at anything else your class can do.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Falacer - Harshlands wrote: »

Well All I can say is

how many buffs do wizzies have again?

For one elemental def at a time? b:chuckle


You buff water, I hit you with earth :P

You buff fire, well its pointless since I have no fire attacks b:chuckle

You buff earth I hit you with water :P

I wouldn't give a damn what element you hit me with, I'd always have earth buff 'cause your earth damage is the only thing worth a damn. Besides, you probably wouldn't be hitting very hard anyways, since most wizards are arcane spec.

You use your little water weapon buff? I'm ARCANE, I already have high elemental def b:chuckle

*Facepalm*

That buff has no effect on magic damage.

milovan82

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

You must be looking at a different forum then...I have yet to really see this argument from Wizards.

I will give u an example! Today i was dueling lvl 56 wiz and i am lvl 44 Psy and i beat him 3 times! And he was surprised how did i beat him! It was really fun!

milovan82

Wrong post lol!

Risingson - Lost City

Cheaper - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pure magic psychic with black voodoo buff going on. yea you wont last
high hp build with white voodoo and buffs going on. can that psychic be killed?

just pointing out that maybe if you succeed in beating a wizard in raw damage, you will probably fail at anything else your class can do.

Let's say you have a point, White Voodoo plus buffs = hard Psychic to kill, very hard. But, for your buffs to be useful you need to be focused. And for you to be focused you need to be a threat, you need to be a danger that needs to be dealt with. So, based on the tremendous nerf affecting your attack when White Voodoo is on (and skilled at its maximum, which is kind of inherent to your theory), I just don't see how you're gonna hurt enough to bring so much attention on yourself that requires any focus on you. What's the point of being unkillable when all you can do is stand there dealing no damage ?

I know what you're gonna say, "that's why there is White Voodo AND Black Voodoo, so you can switch between them to adapt yourself to those situations" but no. Those two particular buffs have a 3 minutes cooldown and cost some mana, and Psychics just can't afford to be permanently switching between White Voodoo and Black Voodoo. We just can't lower our mananeeds nor regenerate said mana faster than normal (aside from Empowered Vigor, but these are potions and well.. in TW, let's just say that's hardly enough because WE DO USE A LOT OF MANA).

So basically yeah, if you buff yourself with White Voodoo plus Soulburn and all, you will indeed be strong, you will indeed be hard to kill and you will indeed be able to drag at least one enemy down with you when you die. But nobody in their right mind is gonna focus you when the only real harm you can do actually needs you to get hit.

I guess you could say that Psychics were made to buff and debuff, but we all know that can't be true. I think Psychics need to get A LOT of mag so they can deal some real damage with their nukes, but not so much that they can't wear any good armour. They need to diversify a bit with their stats and refine enough so they can get the gear that their Soulforce (and therefore their different Souls) requires.

milovan82

blitz333 wrote: »

1- do you forgot wizzies's 1000%elemental def buff??
2-will power on the physic + blades storm and you are a dead

don't make me laugh, the psy is a supporter class(useless),wiz can do the DD or the PKER, PKER i said so i think a psy can't beat down a wiz.

P.S. i can oneshot a cleric with a blades storm why i can't do it on a psy??

Plz dont make me LOL at u! I duel wiz lvl 56 and i was lvl 44 and i killed him i hit him hard as hell so plz dont say that Pys sucks! We will see when our lvl 79 and lvl 100 skills come out! Psy CAN kill WIZ!

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You cant compare stone rain with our level 1 nuke. You get stone rain at level 6 and our earth nuke is level 1 (like wizard pyrogram). Sandburst blast is comparable with sandstorm though. Aqua Impact with gush. Earth Vector with mountian seize. You cant compare a poke skill with a nuke, thats not fair. Its like comparing a broke down rusty car with a new mercedes

By level 1, I assumed that you are referring to the level of availability. But it's not about what level gets what. It's about how good that skill is, which for your case, Earth does bigger damage and cast faster, capped at 100% of weapon damage.

Your Earth vector is an AOE skill that requires you to be near the Boss and of whichever mobs you are fighting up against. And seriously, if you enjoy doing Gimped damage at close up with White voodoo, be my guest. Hope you enjoy the Physical AOEs.

Seriously, skills level of availability doesn't really matter, what matters are cooldown, range (for squishies) damage and proc effect.

Stone rain is the closest skill similar to your level 1 range nuke.

Cheaper - Heavens Tear

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

Let's say you have a point, White Voodoo plus buffs = hard Psychic to kill, very hard. But, for your buffs to be useful you need to be focused. And for you to be focused you need to be a threat, you need to be a danger that needs to be dealt with. So, based on the tremendous nerf affecting your attack when White Voodoo is on (and skilled at its maximum, which is kind of inherent to your theory), I just don't see how you're gonna hurt enough to bring so much attention on yourself that requires any focus on you. What's the point of being unkillable when all you can do is stand there dealing no damage ?

I know what you're gonna say, "that's why there is White Voodo AND Black Voodoo, so you can switch between them to adapt yourself to those situations" but no. Those two particular buffs have a 3 minutes cooldown and cost some mana, and Psychics just can't afford to be permanently switching between White Voodoo and Black Voodoo. We just can't lower our mananeeds nor regenerate said mana faster than normal (aside from Empowered Vigor, but these are potions and well.. in TW, let's just say that's hardly enough because WE DO USE A LOT OF MANA).

So basically yeah, if you buff yourself with White Voodoo plus Soulburn and all, you will indeed be strong, you will indeed be hard to kill and you will indeed be able to drag at least one enemy down with you when you die. But nobody in their right mind is gonna focus you when the only real harm you can do actually needs you to get hit.

I guess you could say that Psychics were made to buff and debuff, but we all know that can't be true. I think Psychics need to get A LOT of mag so they can deal some real damage with their nukes, but not so much that they can't wear any good armour. They need to diversify a bit with their stats and refine enough so they can get the gear that their Soulforce (and therefore their different Souls) requires.

The cooldown on white and black voodoo is only a few seconds, 8 to be exact.

The reason a psychic can be a threat even while using white voodoo is that their skill Diminished Vigor is very deadly to an enemy barb who is pulling a catapult, ( a TW example) or casting Empowered Vigor to a friendly catapult pulling barb. Those are just 2 scenarios in which you cannot allow a psychic to live.

A psychic is best as support in my opinion.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

By level 1, I assumed that you are referring to the level of availability. But it's not about what level gets what. It's about how good that skill is, which for your case, Earth does bigger damage and cast faster, capped at 100% of weapon damage.

Your Earth vector is an AOE skill that requires you to be near the Boss and of whichever mobs you are fighting up against. And seriously, if you enjoy doing Gimped damage at close up with White voodoo, be my guest. Hope you enjoy the Physical AOEs.

Seriously, skills level of availability doesn't really matter, what matters are cooldown, range (for squishies) damage and proc effect.

Stone rain is the closest skill similar to your level 1 range nuke.

level 1 skills are weaker than higher level skills. I mean compare earth vectors damage with MS, which i can do later today. I didnt mentioned white voodoo i think.....did i?

@Risingson
my favorite pvp combo is buffing myself with white voodoo, and soulburn the target. Stack the DoTs and just stand there, target dies.

Also, soulburn works for every attack, even if it doesnt hit you(i.e. you hit boss with soulburn and boss hits barb. The boss takes damage equal to your soulforce). Soulburn is also a great skill for increase magic resistance mobs. Once i get my 59 skills, i plan on maxing it.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

level 1 skills are weaker than higher level skills. I mean compare earth vectors damage with MS, which i can do later today. I didnt mentioned white voodoo i think.....did i?


If you did not buff with black voodoo, how do you 2 shot a mob? are you referring to Lvl 1 mobs?

And pray, please tell me how you are able to catch up to your lvl 86 Mage damage during your 60 or 60s without this buff?

If you mostly buff white voodoo, and dot mobs, that's gotta be the most mana and time inefficient method to kill a mob.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you did not buff with black voodoo, how do you 2 shot a mob? are you referring to Lvl 1 mobs?

one sec, gotta reread stuff >_>

a little lost on how we got on the subject
ya, i use black voodoo to 2 shot mobs o.o

Risingson - Lost City

Cheaper - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The cooldown on white and black voodoo is only a few seconds, 8 to be exact.

The reason a psychic can be a threat even while using white voodoo is that their skill Diminished Vigor is very deadly to an enemy barb who is pulling a catapult, ( a TW example) or casting Empowered Vigor to a friendly catapult pulling barb. Those are just 2 scenarios in which you cannot allow a psychic to live.

A psychic is best as support in my opinion.

I have no idea what you're talking about, White Voodoo may have an 8 seconds cooldown, but Black Voodoo has a 3 minutes cooldown, even if you do switch, you'll only be able to do it once, after that you become pretty much harmless. And even if we were able to switch, our manapool just couldn't handle it (the only way to make the massive amount of casting more tolerable is if we cast Empowered Vigor on ourselves, which wouldn't be that smart considering the shared cooldown with Diminished Vigor). Not to mention those buffs/debuffs are removable.

Don't tell me that in TW and all we're just supposed to cast one debuff or buff and wait for the cooldown to clear.

Drop it, Psychics aren't supports, that I'm sure of.

@Amouriv

You killed somebody in PvP standing here doing nothing but casting DoTs ? Your opponent must have been a complete idiot. At some point you can realize that you can't hit the Psychic when he casted Soulburn on you and tempo, otherwise you have no clue what you're doing.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about, White Voodoo may have an 8 seconds cooldown, but Black Voodoo has a 3 minutes cooldown, even if you do switch, you'll only be able to do it once, after that you become pretty much harmless. And even if we were able to switch, our manapool just couldn't handle it (the only way to make the massive amount of casting more tolerable is if we cast Empowered Vigor on ourselves, which wouldn't be that smart considering the shared cooldown with Diminished Vigor). Not to mention those buffs/debuffs are removable.

Don't tell me that in TW and all we're just supposed to cast one debuff or buff and wait for the cooldown to clear.

Drop it, Psychics aren't supports, that I'm sure of.

@Amouriv

You killed somebody in PvP standing here doing nothing but casting DoTs ? Your opponent must have been a complete idiot. At some point you can realize that you can't hit the Psychic when he casted Soulburn on you and tempo, otherwise you have no clue what you're doing.

First, empowered vigor doesnt work with MP pots
Second, Black voodoo has a 8 second cooldown, i alternate black and white voodoo to gain chi every 8 ish seconds.
third, not everyone has a psychic at lvl 49, he didnt knew what was going on.
fourth, dont call a person an idiot, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Risingson - Lost City

Ha ye, I got confused with Black Voodoo and Soul of Vengeance, my apologies.

Regarding the rest of your post, he doesn't have a lvl 49 Psychic, neither do I. You give him some kind of marge about being wrong, be kind enough to pay me the same courtesy. Furthermore, if you manage to kill someone doing nothing but casting Soulburn and two other DoTs, I'm sorry but that someone couldn't have been very smart.

I mean you can notice if you have Soulburn on yourself, therefore if you can think a bit you'll stop attacking until its effect runs out, don't you think so ?

About the cooldown thing tho, I was indeed wrong, got mixed up, sorry again. But I still don't think Psychics can afford to switch between these two buffs too much, manawise.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

Drop it, Psychics aren't supports, that I'm sure of.

Then pray, tell me how are you gonna run into a group of people in TW, to AOE them with your skills, without getting killed. I'm sure Archers will be trigger happy.

The problem with your nukes, are centred around yourself, or am I wrong in this aspect? And they are supposedly your hardest hitting spells.

I really can't see you doing much except as support and defend roles (when opposition gets near to you). Or you can be the advance party (cata group) and in the midst of fray and confusion, starts nuking with AOEs. But even that will takes alot of coordination and luck to make it happen.

As soon as you starts nuking, archers are gonna Stun (stunning arrow) shot you and normal attacks till you die.

If you can pull of this stunt in TW, be sure it will be the last time you succeed. b:thanksb:bye

Devilblooded - Heavens Tear

im frustrated how people being noob here, psy out DD wizz in pve at same lvl. DONT SPEAK ABOUT FREAKIN DMG OUTPUT our skill are UBER FREAKIN fast its like spamming gush if u want to compare then dont forget cast/channel and in pvp wise psy just **** wizz, 64 psy vs 79 wizz = pwn 5 time in a row, 1 soulburn tick and its too late 60 % hp whipe. and wize psy will concentrate on crit % instead of channel like my psy have 6% crit at lvl 66 and pure mag and i steal aggro from 79 archer/wizz with our lvl 1 nuke just by chaining them, other thing earth vector is not a radius aoe, its a ranged aoe just like MS wich do less dmg but take 1 spark and chan 1 sec cast 1 sec so its just like comparing a axe bm with a fist bm.

the bad point of a psy is that small mana pool. and to be a psy you need a brain because you need to elaborate good strategy to pwn people.

i've tested my dmg vs a wizz sightly higher then me, result was pretty similar but i was hitting a way faster. so please dont fact that psy are worthless DD ill come personatly show u how we ****!

ColdWings - Heavens Tear

people u got pwn . b:b:chuckle

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Devilblooded - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im frustrated how people being noob here, psy out DD wizz in pve at same lvl. DONT SPEAK ABOUT FREAKIN DMG OUTPUT our skill are UBER FREAKIN fast its like spamming gush if u want to compare then dont forget cast/channel and in pvp wise psy just **** wizz, 64 psy vs 79 wizz = pwn 5 time in a row, 1 soulburn tick and its too late 60 % hp whipe. and wize psy will concentrate on crit % instead of channel like my psy have 6% crit at lvl 66 and pure mag and i steal aggro from 79 archer/wizz with our lvl 1 nuke just by chaining them, other thing earth vector is not a radius aoe, its a ranged aoe just like MS wich do less dmg but take 1 spark and chan 1 sec cast 1 sec so its just like comparing a axe bm with a fist bm.

the bad point of a psy is that small mana pool. and to be a psy you need a brain because you need to elaborate good strategy to pwn people.

i've tested my dmg vs a wizz sightly higher then me, result was pretty similar but i was hitting a way faster. so please dont fact that psy are worthless DD ill come personatly show u how we ****!

Guess what, mages can steal aggro too if they chain cast like you. But then again, if you steal aggro, you are probably a bigger noob than anyone that you have insulted here.

Devilblooded - Heavens Tear

lol i meant steal aggro from mag tank u dummy. i hold back when barb tank but not when theres a 79 wizz and archer all out but guess who ended tanking LOL

Arkaminus - Harshlands

i saw a phsycic 8x pwn a 8x wizard so yeah i think phsycics r gonna be the best ddb:victory