The Real Cost of Catshopping
Comments
-
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Please lead by example. Move into a grass hut and farm organic strawberries and sell them on the side of the road. Your contribution to making this world a better place will be duly noted. kthxbuhbye
Don't strawberries require alot of water? I think that may not be good for the environment either, unless he lives in an area where strawberries are native off.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »and who said you were right? And since when did this thread come to be about GW? Asterelle is simply saying, the game's merchant program is flawed and can be improved upon, as well as the player's convenience.
Your high and mighty self can shove that wall of text that you just spewed from your self righteous mouth right up where the sun doesn't shine, 'cupcake'. Dont bring that load of **** into this conversation about the game, if you choose to believe something is wrong is your decision and your personal belief, it is our own rights to believe in what we choose. But dont bring that kind of condescending tone into an appropriate thread.
You bother me more and more, just because you threw 1 or 2 server lotteries and you smoochie smooch up to the GM's, you think you can post whatever you want whenever you want on the forums and can get away with it, and if anyone puts you down, or puts you in your place, you snap at them with 'suck it up cupcake'. Why dont you shut your trap and let others give positive feedback on how the game can be improved, 'cupcake'?
/end rant
Holy hell, you're a bit slow, eh? This entire topic was about global warming. Re-read, try again, fail less.
Also, Saitada could say that Hitler was a saint- she'd be full of ****, but she'd have every right to say it. YOU don't get to decide who voices their opinion on this forum. Get over it.
As for it being a matter of personal belief- well, not really. Whether there's some sort of impending climate disaster would be a matter of facts. People have been lead to believe that we're all destroying the planet with our lifestyles. Turns out, it's a bunch of garbage. If there WAS convincing evidence of significant global warming caused by man, I'd say maybe we should do something. There isn't, though, so we don't need to. The info used to promote global warming has been doctored more than Cher's face.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Don't strawberries require alot of water? I think that may not be good for the environment either, unless he lives in an area where strawberries are native off.
Haha, yup. The organic foods market is a sham, too. More energy for less produce, which isn't as healthy as all that "evil" chemically altered produce in the first place. "Pay more for less, and with reduced quality? Sign me up!"0 -
_azazel_ - Lost City wrote: »Holy hell, you're a bit slow, eh? This entire topic was about global warming. Re-read, try again, fail less.
Also, Saitada could say that Hitler was a saint- she'd be full of ****, but she'd have every right to say it. YOU don't get to decide who voices their opinion on this forum. Get over it.
As for it being a matter of personal belief- well, not really. Whether there's some sort of impending climate disaster would be a matter of facts. People have been lead to believe that we're all destroying the planet with our lifestyles. Turns out, it's a bunch of garbage. If there WAS convincing evidence of significant global warming caused by man, I'd say maybe we should do something. There isn't, though, so we don't need to. The info used to promote global warming has been doctored more than Cher's face.
show me where Ast said the words Global and Warming in his original post, and Ill say I failed.
Otherwise, reread. He was simply stating what could be done with the energy consumed by idle computers running catshops. The way I saw it was more along the lines of pointing out that the merchant function of this game needs improvement, and here is one of the reasons why.
Im not trying to get into a debate about what people believe and dont believe. What Im trying to point out is that no one deserves to be trolled, flamed, pointed at, laughed at or accused that their views are wrong. We all have our rights to choose what we want to believe in.
So yeah, to you and the others, re-read and re-evaluate.
BTW, Im always very nice, unless I see others treating innocent people like pieces of garbage. Then yeah, Im gonna say something about it, because its gross and dis-respectful.
Also, insulting people's intelligence is just low. Sorry, but that act just reeks of desperation.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »397.
That's how many AFK catshops I just counted in Arch at the time of this posting in Sanctuary. 397 computers left on to idle without any direct use by people.
Let's assume each of these computers is consuming a modest 100W (the same as two light bulbs). That's 6,670 kWh every week (over $800 USD of electricty) going to these cat shops. That is just absurd.
Imagine if we could save that.
- We would save enough energy to power 52 homes.
- We would prevent 3.97 tons of weekly carbon dioxide emissions
- We would have the equivalent carbon offset of planting 20,384 trees (enough trees to cover 34 acres of rainforest)
- We would be able to fight against global warming
These numbers are for Sanctuary alone.
The benefit of eliminating cat shops is real. The question now is how to go about doing it.
If catshops were eliminated entirely tomorrow what would happen? People would complain at first for sure but I think they would adapt quickly to use the AH and trade chat.
Perhaps catshops could be made obsolete by a cash shop item that allows you to setup a stall without having your computer on.
I admit I don't have the answer but I see the problem.
-Ast
There. He just edited it...'cause he's a ninja.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »There. He just edited it...'cause he's a ninja.
*shoves you in a box and sells you*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »*shoves you in a box and sells you*
...I better get a cut of whatever I sell for!
b:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »*shoves you in a box and sells you*
Did you shove the wrong poster in a box? I am sure people are buying the boxes with the Hamsta inside...... Not konari....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Did you shove the wrong poster in a box? I am sure people are buying the boxes with the Hamsta inside...... Not konari....
Ish 'cause I'm the rare Konari Pet. 0.(over -9000)% chance of getting me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Did you shove the wrong poster in a box? I am sure people are buying the boxes with the Hamsta inside...... Not konari....
b:shocked
they making a new box for konari too.
(>.<)'
but since there only be one of him.....0.000000001 chance to get him
XDdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »show me where Ast said the words Global and Warming in his original post, and Ill say I failed.
Otherwise, reread. He was simply stating what could be done with the energy consumed by idle computers running catshops. The way I saw it was more along the lines of pointing out that the merchant function of this game needs improvement, and here is one of the reasons why.
Im not trying to get into a debate about what people believe and dont believe. What Im trying to point out is that no one deserves to be trolled, flamed, pointed at, laughed at or accused that their views are wrong. We all have our rights to choose what we want to believe in.
So yeah, to you and the others, re-read and re-evaluate.
BTW, Im always very nice, unless I see others treating innocent people like pieces of garbage. Then yeah, Im gonna say something about it, because its gross and dis-respectful.
Also, insulting people's intelligence is just low. Sorry, but that act just reeks of desperation.
Cesh, let me point out to you the TWO POINTS Asterelle made that are directly tied to the AGW crowd and the failed arguments and doctored science they promote that caused me to comment as I did. I am sorry I have to show this to you but I guess your inability to see it just proves a previous point I made in this thread about you.- We would prevent 3.97 tons of weekly carbon dioxide emissions
- We would have the equivalent carbon offset of planting 20,384 trees (enough trees to cover 34 acres of rainforest)
Now, go learn what that means and who uses those terms, then come back here and swallow your shoe leather.
~Saitada0 -
I guess the problem associated with this is that people just don't care enough to do anything. Couple of people already said they don't give half an **** about what happens to the energy wasted, and frankly, I don't really care either. Am I willing to walk 20 minutes to save on energy? No not really. Am I willing to turn my computer off for 8 hours so I can save on energy (and give up millions of PWI currency)? <-- wow that makes me sound fail lmao. No not really. And really, thinking about it rationally, why would anyone care?
The reason is, it's not directly costing anyone anything. That's what happens when external costs affect a large amount of people. People don't feel the cost because it's external to them (they don't pay it themselves).
"Oh a few extra bucks of electricity bill for me, idc".
"Oh extra CO2 in the air, idc."
That's what goes through my mind when I contemplate eco-action. The direct costs of me cutting down whatever I'm doing is usually higher than the benefit I gain from continuing. Following that rationale - hell I won't stop.
What I think could be done to help this problem, is:
1. Totally redesign the catshop system. Don't ask me how.
2. Put a tax of some sort on the catshop.
I recall someone ealier saying a lot of people don't put things in the AH because it cuts down on the profit margin of the supplier, hence driving people towards catshops. If you were to take off this fee and impose it on catshops, (say for every item you sell, you lose x% of money), this would perhaps encourage people to use alternative methods to market their goods. You might see more people using the AH, who knows.
And note, this isnt a post about global warming or environmental issues. I know nothing about that. It's just my opinion on getting rid of the large amount of catshops.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Cesh, let me point out to you the TWO POINTS Asterelle made that are directly tied to the AGW crowd and the failed arguments and doctored science they promote that caused me to comment as I did. I am sorry I have to show this to you but I guess your inability to see it just proves a previous point I made in this thread about you.
Now, go learn what that means and who uses those terms, then come back here and swallow your shoe leather.
~Saitada
You are in an unusualy sweet and helpful mood today, I hope you are not comming down sick like a few weeks ago... Get that vitamine C..Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »b:shocked
they making a new box for konari too.
(>.<)'
but since there only be one of him.....0.000000001 chance to get him
XD
I say, I'd pay for a chance at that o.0 no offense, but the teeny hamsters creep me out a bit
that, and I heard all about their world domination plan, and I dont feel too comfortable with it b:chuckle giant lasers and such, I may go chasing them like a bat outta hell.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
what annoys me is that when a person is on ignore list, when quoted, they still show up.
I give up trying to make my point clear to His Highness, Saitada. Obviously, my point went clear through the space between his own brains, so lets just agree to disagree and move on to the orginal topic: Discussion on how to improve the merchant function of the game.
Oh wait, c wut I did thur? b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »I say, I'd pay for a chance at that o.0 no offense, but the teeny hamsters creep me out a bit
that, and I heard all about their world domination plan, and I dont feel too comfortable with it b:chuckle giant lasers and such, I may go chasing them like a bat outta hell.
Plus, you'd have your own personal troll. I'd be guaranteed to keep all teh n00blets away.
...at the expensive of having to put up with me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh wait, c wut I did thur? b:victory
You were picking your nose while typing? <peeks into the CCD screens, presses rewind, and playback> yups, that was it.
You party animal
PS- What happened to the bugger after you picked it, is a secret that is safe with me, so you do not have to worry.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »You were picking your nose while typing? <peeks into the CCD screens, presses rewind, and playback> yups, that was it.
You party animal
you werent supposed to see that.....Im hereby confiscating those tapes >.<[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »you werent supposed to see that.....Im hereby confiscating those tapes >.<
At least you were not making earwax sculptures...Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »what annoys me is that when a person is on ignore list, when quoted, they still show up.
I give up trying to make my point clear to His Highness, Saitada. Obviously, my point went clear through the space between his own brains, so lets just agree to disagree and move on to the orginal topic: Discussion on how to improve the merchant function of the game.
Oh wait, c wut I did thur? b:victory
You ignore me because you have an inability to counter my arguments with anything even closely resembling an intelligent rebuttal. Obviously cupcake, your point wasn't worth much because I ignored it as the worthless drivel it was.
When your able to actually make a realistic point to counter my arguments, then I will be happy to discuss that point with you. Until then.. your failure is obvious to everyone.
Have a nice day... cupcake.
~Saitada0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »At least you were not making earwax sculptures...
no, I only do those while watching television. b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »You are in an unusualy sweet and helpful mood today, I hope you are not comming down sick like a few weeks ago... Get that vitamine C..
Not really, I'm just trying to be gentle with the um... less fortunate intellects here. It's my day for being a semi-decent human being. I do that at least once a month so I'll remember why I despise them so much.
~Saitada0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Not really, I'm just trying to be gentle with the um... less fortunate intellects here. It's my day for being a semi-decent human being. I do that at least once a month so I'll remember why I despise them so much.
~Saitada
b:puzzled
me are less fortunate intellect?
(O.o)'
and why once a month?
xDdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »b:puzzled
me are less fortunate intellect?
(O.o)'
and why once a month?
xD
no your ok, I was referring to another poster here that seems to miss the obvious and then gets butt hurt when it is pointed out to them.
Once a month is the minimum, occasionally I do it more often, it just depends on how frequently I start liking decent people. The more frequently, the more often I be nice to remember why I don't like them.
~Saitada0 -
It has to do with the phases of the moon, or so I heard....MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »b:puzzled
me are less fortunate intellect?
(O.o)'
and why once a month?
xD
No clue. oh wait, Saitada answered you.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »It has to do with the phases of the moon, or so I heard....
XD lol, although, I did enjoy seeing the tail end of the Geminids last night. That might have something to do with my being semi-nice today.
~S0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »no your ok, I was referring to another poster here that seems to miss the obvious and then gets butt hurt when it is pointed out to them.
Once a month is the minimum, occasionally I do it more often, it just depends on how frequently I start liking decent people. The more frequently, the more often I be nice to remember why I don't like them.
~Saitada
Wut 'bout me?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »397.
That's how many AFK catshops I just counted in Arch at the time of this posting in Sanctuary. 397 computers left on to idle without any direct use by people.
Let's assume each of these computers is consuming a modest 100W (the same as two light bulbs). That's 6,670 kWh every week (over $800 USD of electricty) going to these cat shops. That is just absurd.
Imagine if we could save that.
- We would save enough energy to power 52 homes.
- We would prevent 3.97 tons of weekly carbon dioxide emissions
- We would have the equivalent carbon offset of planting 20,384 trees (enough trees to cover 34 acres of rainforest)
These numbers are for Sanctuary alone.
The benefit of eliminating cat shops is real. The question now is how to go about doing it.
If catshops were eliminated entirely tomorrow what would happen? People would complain at first for sure but I think they would adapt quickly to use the AH and trade chat.
Perhaps catshops could be made obsolete by a cash shop item that allows you to setup a stall without having your computer on.
I admit I don't have the answer but I see the problem.
-Ast
Hi ^__^, Ahhh >< I think this is why I always see other servers labeling Sanctuary as being " Full of hippies" lol. =P
I'm all for solutions which reduce graphical lag and server related lag. ^^.
Of course there are other ways to do that, however I still think it's a neat idea. Helping preserve the planet in the process isn't a bad idea either. xP ;o
I don't believe there is a good answer for this. A connection must be maintained between the client and server.
I think it would be very problematic also to have the sellers using WC or trade to shout all at once, I think it's problematic now without all that :<. There are many sellers utilizing catshops.
I can't say I blame them with the auction house charging people and forcing them to raise the price. I think removing the auction house fee is a reasonable incentive which may appeal to the cat shop folk.
There are many items which cannot be placed inside the auction house as well. I know there is many times when I want to sell something and I can't place it in the auction house. If the auction house was improved or changed perhaps more would use it and turn their machines off.
That of course would cause masses of people to crowd around the existing auction houses, maybe more can be added at reasonable locations and distances within cities or small safezones on paths lol.
This is probably not a solution but it's what I can offer as a step in the right direction. I think this is a great thread. Have a good day ^^
Regards0 -
Whats AGW? Sounds like some sort of root beer to me. Am I the only one who has never heard that?
I put a variety of equivalencies of just the wasted electric power (cost in USD, in homes that could be powered, and in emissions of CO2).
Wasted electric power was just one of the costs that people dont think about with catshops and I had another post which enumerated others:
- oppurtunity cost in that you could be doing something else in PWI or with your computer
- cost in bandwidth for the server
- cost in making arch covered in annoyingly placed shops
Being a forum junkie I will say I am a fan of interesting topics and think it is great my post sparked so much discussion. The thing I want people to take from this thread is that catshops are stupid. Catshops reward stupid behavior that is both wasteful and annoying.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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